women are not YOUR protector

[joekerr31]

This is absolutely ridiculous, Joekerr. Some of the strongest people I have ever met were woman.

they are weak because they cannot shoulder anyone elses problems other than their own.

even when it comes to their children they tend to be horrible problem solvers / bearers.

although i will say, there are definitely some strong black women out there. theres been lots of stories of black men raised by their grand mothers for instance who turned out great because their grand mothers were STRONG - they were protectors in the full sense of hte word.

but generally speaking, women are HORRIBLE at solving others problems. becuase women are very poor at putting themselves in someone elses shoes. they are genreally much too concerned with their own problems and dramas.

women are NOT protectors. they are NOT leaders. they ARE weak.

generally speaking that is.

 

[STR8UP]

My ex g/f told me many times "You are my rock....my SANCTUARY".

At the time I took it like "Cool, I mean a lot to her".

Now I know that it meant "You're the thing that I lean on when I don't feel as if i have the strength to tackle something myself". Real or implied, it goes to show that women EXPECT men to play that role.

Nowadays I hear something like that and ask myself "Well then who is MY rock"? It gets tiring having to be the idealized version of masculinity 24/7.

 

[joekerr31]

Great post.



silly sweeping generalization.

Most women would pick neither one! Hell... I'd rather be alone! NO man.

yes, we are talkign generalizations here

and fine, YOU would rather be alone (but you are not your common woman).

moreover, if someone put a gun to your head nad said take your pick... an *sshole or some wimpy emotionally needy man, you'd probably choose the *sshole.

a woman would rather FIGHT with her man than have to take care of him as though her were an invalid.

 

[joekerr31]

This is why women don't just like "jerks". It's not a choice between jerk and nice guy. It's a choice between strength and weakness. Strenght wins every time.

you got it. which is why you can be a jerk, a nice guy, a jog, an academic... heck, you can play wiht model trains for all anyone cares.... but the ONE thing you must exhibit is self confidence (ie. strength).

you must be a man who can carry his own in this world to have any long term chance with just about any woman.

the world is a cruel cruel place to weak men. which is why i post here, with the hope that a few of them will read some of this and realize that all they have to do is believe in themselves just a little bit and their lives will improve leaps and bounds.

 

[MikeYikes122]

silly sweeping generalization.

Most women would pick neither one! Hell... I'd rather be alone! NO man.

Ehh this might be tough for you to acknowledge, but he is right. I've been both an a$$hole and a needy AFC at separate times in my life, and I can say I got way more girls when I was an a$$hole. Now, when I was a jerk, I didn't get many girls wanting to be my girlfriend, but girls were attracted to me. It's hard to develop much intimacy and rapport when you're a dyck to the girl you are sleeping with.

An AFC has a problem with girls only wanting to be his friend, and an a$$hole has a problem with girls getting sick of him after a week. No matter how you slice it, a female is going to have more attraction for a guy who is a jerk.

There's no evil sweeping generalization behind this thought process. An a$$hole typically has a confidence and an AFC doesn't. Women are attracted to confidence. An a$$hole typically doesn't need women. An AFC does. Women are attracted to that. None of this is hard to agree with.

A DJ has to find the balance between the two and be a "good guy".

 

[joekerr31]

Nowadays I hear something like that and ask myself "Well then who is MY rock"? It gets tiring having to be the idealized version of masculinity 24/7.

str8up, i think this is at the very heart of what you've been going through lately.

i believe a man must find his protector, his rock, from a spiritual source to be honest.

at best you might find some other men, like here on sosuave, who are happy to help be that rock. but generally speaking the world has very little concern men and what trials and tribulations they may be going through.

personally i find my solice in spirituality and philosophy. people scoff at believing in god, but i'll tell you this much, it provides me with amazing strength.

 

[reset]

the world is a cruel cruel place to weak men. which is why i post here, with the hope that a few of them will read some of this and realize that all they have to do is believe in themselves just a little bit and their lives will improve leaps and bounds.

Yeah, it's funny you post this because I was thinking back to something a few months ago where I just went AFC and the chick recoiled in like a heart beat. I was embarrassed and ashamed and everything, but the truth is I was being weak. She was turned off. It doesn't make her better or me less than. It was just a lesson in what happens when you lean on the girl. Hopefully I learned from it.

Which is what I hope a lot of guys that come here get what you're saying too. Not to beat ourselves up and keep saying "AFC" but to see examples of us maybe not knowing what we're doing, seeing how it doesn't work, and learning. The girl that burned you yesterday, and you learned from it, the next girl is actually going to benefit from that.

 

[joekerr31]

iqqi,

i did want to add something to my statement that women are weak.

they are weak when we are talking about the protector role. and its to be expected, women are not raised to know how to play that role.

women spend their time learning how to 'attract' a man, not learning how to be a warrior, protector, knight, etc.

i believe women COULD be just as much protectors as men are, but they are not raised to be and as such have no clue how to be.

this doesn't mean women are useless. they do have strengths. but those strengths do not include the role of protector.

its hard for you to understand. but when a man loves a woman, he would do anything for her. he would shelter her from an attacking lion and be torn to shreds to PROTECT her.

a woman would do this for her children, but NEVER her man. its expected that the man is to sacrifice himself for her, but she is not to sacrifice herself for him.

when you consider that both a man and a woman are equally physically 'weak' when compared to a lion, you must acknowledge that the reason the man steps forward and gives his life is because he is naturally a protector.

whereas the woman's instinct is to cower and run. unless of course she is with her children. then she becomes a protector.

but a MAN can never expect a woman to ever be a protector. she expects this of him.

 

[aliasguy]

We, as men, MUST be "the Rock."

There is NO exception.

This is how it is.

all else is trivia.

 

[joekerr31]

We, as men, MUST be "the Rock."

There is NO exception.

This is how it is.

all else is trivia.

not to derail this thread (which i've thoroughly enjoyed), but i dont think anyone can be a rock in and of themselves.

life is just too hard and filled with too many let downs.

a man must believe in something greater than himself. let that be whatever it may be - but let it be anything other than a woman! heck, i'm watching gladiator right now and this movie will help a man more than any woman ever could.

 

[iqqi]

although i will say, there are definitely some strong black women out there. theres been lots of stories of black men raised by their grand mothers for instance who turned out great because their grand mothers were STRONG - they were protectors in the full sense of hte word...

This is one great example, but it isn't just black men and black grandmas!

This is a stereotype!

-----------------------------------------moving on....


I agree that no woman wants to take care of some man who hasn't grown up. But your thread seems to focus less on how men should be, and more on how women won't take care of a man.

What exactly is your point with this thread?

That a man should rely on himself, or that women will leave you when you are down and out?

A mature and strong woman will not leave a man just because he is down. There has to be more to it. At the same time, an immature and selfish woman will leave you for a number of superficial reasons.

Once again, you have to be selective in who you trust, who you love. Look for that woman with strength, with maturity, who won't balk when your foot gets chopped off and your grandma dies, and you can't get out of bed for a week or a month.

This level of trust and love shouldn't come until time has tested you, if you are expecting this kind of love and commitment from a woman you've only known for a few months, you are the fool. A woman who is selfish enough to leave the man she loves when he needs her has probably already shown the signs along the way that you shouldn't have invested your love and trust in her anyways.

In the beginning of a relationship, you should never do the TMI thing. (Too Much Info). That is common sense. For men and women, even though some men DO get off on being Cap'n Save a H0, it isn't healthy.

But once you have a long term relationship with a woman who has QUALIFIED herself as worthy of your trust and love, then you should definately be able to expect her to be there for you when you need her.

However, you can't be down and out forever. Once you drag it out and obviously have refused to grow or get over your own hurdles, you can't blame HER when YOU are the one bringing the LTR down with issues you aren't resolving. Even then, it takes a STRONG woman to be able to LEAVE your a$$, the man she loves, so you can face your issues and grow up.

 

[joekerr31]

What exactly is your point with this thread?

That a man should rely on himself, or that women will leave you when you are down and out?

my point is that a man must find something to rely on OTHER than a woman. which doesnt mean she will always leave you when youa re down and out, but lets be realistic here.

when a man is down and out he often isn't showing his woman the attention she desires. MOST women get upset over this.

MOST women, when they aren't getting what they want from their man, start to plan their exit strategy. they generally don't care that the reason they aren't getting it is cuz their man is suffering - they just get upset that they aren't getting it.

and to be fair, many men are the same. lets say their woman goes into a deep depression and no longer wants to have sex and puts on 30 pounds - MOST men start to think 'now might be a good time to sneak out the back door'.

anyway, the primary point in this is that men make a HUGE mistake when they rely on their woman to help them get through lifes struggles. its great if they have a woman who is willing to do that, but even the only full proof strategy to ensure that their own struggles don't destroy their relationship is to find their 'solice' elsewhere.

one of the reasons (i think) that women enjoy me so much is that i don't bring my problems to the table. i turn to a woman for companionship, sex, emotional bonding, etc. - but for me personally, when life is dark i don't turn to a woman to be my candle in that darkness.

i get my strength from God, from myself, and from various philosophies and heroes that i have - THEY give me the strength to rise up and fight on. i NEVER turn to a woman for that inspiration.

 

[Bible_Belt]

the big mistake most men make, even those who play protector in the beginning, is that over time they slowly, every so slowly, start to interact with their gf/wife as they would their mother. they slowly start to burden her with their inner thoughts, with the stresses of their life, etc. - they start to show her more and more how 'human' they are (ie. weak).

In another thread about mystery, you said that mystery is not a great idea as a strategy. I said that it was, but what I meant by "mystery" is your own advice here, to not burden her with our inner thoughts.

 

[aliasguy]

not to derail this thread (which i've thoroughly enjoyed), but i dont think anyone can be a rock in and of themselves.

life is just too hard and filled with too many let downs.

a man must believe in something greater than himself. let that be whatever it may be - but let it be anything other than a woman! heck, i'm watching gladiator right now and this movie will help a man more than any woman ever could.

Well, SH*T, J-------


In another thread, you said that a man should just KNOW when she's about to bail. And a man should SENSE it. And somehow KNOW it. (from the "signs")

And then, when I say a man must be a MAN, and ACCEPT that women act this way, you say NO, I have to accept some higher power. WTF?


Where IS the MAN in this? Is he supposed to KNOW what a woman will do, from her (as you describe them) "signs"?

Or is he to submit to the vagaries of life, and accept that life is full of "ups and downs"? You are playing both ends against the middle.

 

[Last Man Standing]

Only a weak man would seek or see a woman as a protector!!! If a man is not doing his naturally genetic designed duty to be a protector- the woman, as a last resort, will take the helm!! In the equation of two, she is the only one left - she doesn't do it by choice, but because of survival!!

 

[joekerr31]

In another thread about mystery, you said that mystery is not a great idea as a strategy. I said that it was, but what I meant by "mystery" is your own advice here, to not burden her with our inner thoughts.

in that thread i took mystery to mean things like your views on religion, politics, where you work, your past (ie. telling her about a trip you took in collegel), etc.

in this thread we are talking about revealing emotions you might be having that you are not coping with well. so for instance, lets say you are obsessing over a boss that is constantly riding you and you are getting depressed. while its ok to tell her that work isn't going well, if you openly talk about how depressed you are and how work sucks and how some guy is picking on you, etc. - it won't end well for you.

odds are she will tell you to suck it up. and if you don't she will walk on your *ss because she will see you as a beta male.

 

[ketostix]

Joekerr, basically in a nutshell you're saying don't expect anything of women but they will have all kinds of unfair and unreasonable expectation of a man. That sounds about right.

 

[Bible_Belt]

odds are she will tell you to suck it up.

Odds are, she will be right.

The rule I read somewhere is "no one likes a complainer, unless he's really funny." You can b!tch a little in a funny way if it makes her laugh or builds rapport or common ground, or something positive. But if she is frowning and saying, "oh, I'm sorry" then it is time to change the subject.

 

[joekerr31]

Joekerr, basically in a nutshell you're saying don't expect anything of women but they will have all kinds of unfair and unreasonable expectation of a man. That sounds about right.

hahaha, at least as it relates to being a protector. never, ever ever expect your woman to protect you from life. its like expecting your cat to cook you dinner - a cat has no idea how to use a stove and you're insane if you think it will ever cook you dinner.

men have many unreasonable expectations of women also though. we expect them to ride our kawks every night even if they aren't in the mood. we expect them to look their best and put in 100 times more effort into that than we ever would put into our own appearance (not many guys are prepared to spend an hour getting ready in the morning), etc.

 

[iqqi]

when a man is down and out he often isn't showing his woman the attention she desires. MOST women get upset over this.

THIS is the perfect example of a childish, immature woman, and of course a child is going to be selfish.

MOST women, when they aren't getting what they want from their man, start to plan their exit strategy. they generally don't care that the reason they aren't getting it is cuz their man is suffering - they just get upset that they aren't getting it.

and to be fair, many men are the same. lets say their woman goes into a deep depression and no longer wants to have sex and puts on 30 pounds - MOST men start to think 'now might be a good time to sneak out the back door'.

In a mature relationship where both partners respect one another and there is real love, real hurdles will be faced together. And you are right, if one of them doesn't pull their weight, it will weigh the relationship DOWN.

Any one who bails due to the fact they "aren't getting what they want", with no regard to their partners suffering, is either immature and selfish, OR AND someone you never should have trusted and gave your love to in the first place.

anyway, the primary point in this is that men make a HUGE mistake when they rely on their woman to help them get through lifes struggles. its great if they have a woman who is willing to do that, but even the only full proof strategy to ensure that their own struggles don't destroy their relationship is to find their 'solice' elsewhere.

one of the reasons (i think) that women enjoy me so much is that i don't bring my problems to the table. i turn to a woman for companionship, sex, emotional bonding, etc. - but for me personally, when life is dark i don't turn to a woman to be my candle in that darkness.

i get my strength from God, from myself, and from various philosophies and heroes that i have - THEY give me the strength to rise up and fight on. i NEVER turn to a woman for that inspiration.

In a solid, loving relationship with a woman who is GROWN and strong, YES YOU SHOULD be able to count on her.

Although I do think that it is good you have OTHER outlets than just your woman to help you light the way. You understand that HEAVY WEIGHT can harm any relationship, and that is good.

But knowing you can count on your woman, and that she is able to help you in those times, is key to a truly solid and REAL loving relationship.

Let that be a key in determining who you choose in the future!