Wife doing 180 to save marriage

[highSpeed]

The correct frame. Either way is good. Comes or stays. You salvage yourself first. She would let you die inside and never lift a finger and you know it. The whole thing is on your shoulders. Master of the universe. (I don't watch those movies, but it must be your frame)

No more covert contracts, no more doing nice things and seeing if it gets me my way. I'm sure the OP has been much the same over the years. See where it's gotten him?

 

[highSpeed]

There is an opportunity to become a better man with this more true than not statement.

An opportunity to nullify her purposely induced manipulation of dismissal and invalidation of him as a man. He must learn that it is a woman's acquired skill and manipulation to get what she wants. Dominance in the relationship.

Here is the point of a lot of this thread. It really isn't about the right or wrong of cheating for him. When men are hit with this...what is their first instinct? He automatically defaults to his social programming and conditioning...

Save the situation and/or condition. Try even harder to earn her intimacy. Become a better cuckable in the eyes of the social mainstream. try even harder, no matter what it is. Theres guys right in this thread right now trying to save the day with their dubious momma's programming.

So a man makes a decision to go against this universe and all that it stands for. This is the crucible. What is a man willing to give up? That woman knows that in this situation, it is almost guaranteed that the man will not cheat. She knows this. She knew it from the start. True, she doesn't feel anything for him. But shes far from stupid. As a man he set this up wearing the "I'm going to be a great husband and dad.", frame at the start.

So in this situation...having a mistress is going against the physical universe AND his programming. Look how many men here completely disregarded it as a viable route for a man to free himself from his programming. Men who cant see past their pre-conditioned beliefs. The women who posted know damn well what a woman would do if the roles were reversed. It's new diks for Betty, time. They enforce and make up rules for regular men but break all those rules to sleep with other men.

No matter if we agree or disagree with him getting a mistress. The pint is it's a viable method of breaking out of his conditioning.

I look at it more as if you have to find ways to satisfy yourself if your "partner" will not and refuses to. If you, as the man, let this stand, she's going to cuck the living sh*t out of any man. I like that saying, familiarity breeds contempt. She knows after a certain point, he's not going to do anything. She knows after a certain point, she's in control. That's the worst thing the guy can do.

She's leaving him no out and she knows it.

 

[Trump]

I’ve been dating/married to my wife for 20 years. I got red pill awoke about 6 months ago and had a ton of anger and resentment. I used the last six months to get in shape, learn about game and prepare for the SMP. Yesterday, I confronted my wife about our sexless, affectionless relationship and she is doing a 180 to fix things. Now I’m torn. Do I try and fix things? My SMV is high and I can def get a younger, hotter girl now. But I do love (yes I’m still a blue pill beta loser) my wife and our family. Thoughts?

Red pill awoke is not about confronting your wife about her not giving you enough sex and affection.

You don’t try to fix things because once you are bill pill awoke again she will do the same thing.

If your SMV is that high, get a 27 year old and keep the wife.

 

[Atom Smasher]

The question remains, how much did he condition her to get this way? How did she start off in the marriage? These are the unknowns.

A woman cannot function and thrive in a marriage with a weak man. She must take on the masculine role in order for the family to function, and she will inevitably resent him for it. This is natural and not the fault of the woman.

We don’t know the complete story, so our advice must be tempered by this lack of information. Did he create this himself, or at least facilitate it? Will she respond positively if given a little time? Possibly.

If the OP just awoke this year, then he was complicit in her corruption. He also says he still loves her, which is another reason to consider that there is at least a possibility that the marriage can be saved.

For us to jump in and insist strongly that he either dump her or find a mistress does him a disservice at this point in time. One of the most important things I’ve ever learned in life is to walk carefully and deliberately and to avoid acting out of frustration, fear, or any other strongly motivating emotion.

What would Sun Tzu say? Know all the facts before striking. If there is no pressing time constraint, use that time to evaluate your position. I don’t see a pressing time constraint here.

 

[Spaz]

I look at it more as if you have to find ways to satisfy yourself if your "partner" will not and refuses to. If you, as the man, let this stand, she's going to cuck the living sh*t out of any man. I like that saying, familiarity breeds contempt. She knows after a certain point, he's not going to do anything. She knows after a certain point, she's in control. That's the worst thing the guy can do.

She's leaving him no out and she knows it.

Regardless.

OP still has to go through the process I and some others has laid out, for good order, this will give him peace of mind and certainty through clarity of her behaviour.

And we should encourage a man to seek that path when he's at the crossroads since he has a daughter.

He has to be allowed to mold her to his current frame.

His previous frame more or less enable her.

He is responsible for it and as such he should likewise be responsible to lead now.

Granted, its an uphill task, since respect is lost.

But if she's willing and displayed it then he should be able garner respect around his 'new frame'.

However OP, if she still doesn't at least move in to the marital bedroom after a sufficient time has elapsed, then you'd need to take steps to end this union.

Set a time frame.

 

[StayOrGo?]

Because who knows what her motives are and what she does when he isnt there. She might be sleeping with 2 dudes and facetime sex sessions for all we know.

All we have to know are 3 things and NOTHING more:

1.) This marriage serves her purpose (financially, socially, etc) and it does NOTHING positive for him

2.) His needs arent being met as a man and as a husband.

3.) There had been an obvious lacking of her respecting him from some time. First a woman loses attraction. Then she loses interest, the respect.

The opposite of respect is disrespectful. Her behavior has not been one so its been the other.

Once respect is gone boys there is no getting it back. I truly believe that attraction and interest can be restored. Not respect. It's gone with that woman forever.

The conversation we should be having is this:

Does he be a man and leave and pursue a happier life? Does he have a come to Jesus talk with her and let her know that unless she starts acting as a wife, he is going to stop being a husband. As in let's get divorced if this thing is too far gone (and it is at this point).

I'm with the opinion of "hey I'm not happy and havent been for a long time. This is my only shot at life and I'm going to make sure the remainder of it is a happy one. I want a divorce". Period. End of story.

And fvck her feelings bc she stopped caring about your feelings years ago.

Sigh...man I'd like to disagree with you but I really don't think I can. You make good points.

Advice from the old lady:

Your situation has some details worth paying specific attention to.

1. You are ex pats. If you divorce your fatherhood role will be stripped from you in all likelihood as you note. Not good. You have a daughter. Raising her properly is of utmost importance. And it is important she see you and knows you as a man.

2. Your wife sleeps with your daughter.

FULL STOP.

What????????????

YOU have allowed this. Stop allowing it. Period. Your wife must sleep in the marital bed. The sleeping arrangements are screwing up your daughter...never mind your marriage.

I agree with @Mauser96 about making a list.

You must have a forthright conversation. I mean blunt. Does she hate sex? Does she hate it with you? Why? You need to know. Ask her what she would think about you having a mistress. Ask. You are a man and you desire sexual Union. Ok. Put on the table that option openly. What have you got to lose? There are women who will consent to that. It may not be everybody’s value system but it’s worth a conversation.

Insist that she sleep in bed with you. If you snore, lose more weight, or get a wedge or bed that raises up on the headboard side. This idea that she beds with your daughter is bad on many fronts.

If her hair is short ask her to grow it out. If she looks frumpy ask her to change into something more flattering. My guy insists that my hair be very long (nearly to my waist) and expects me in heels and a very tight dress (classy but very tight) when we go out. If he thinks my skirt is too short, he asks me to change. If he thinks the dress is too daytime or business? He asks me to change. And I do. If he wants a different color? I’ll change. I look great in my entire wardrobe so I’m happy to wear what pleases HIM. He likes my nails done and perfume on. He prefers I wear sexy makeup. I do these things to be sexy for HIM. I like to be sexy for me too, but I want to meet his preferences.

My grandmother was very wise. She said always that: A great wife is a lover first, a partner/companion second, and a mother 3rd. Think about that. She was married over 30 years twice & was widowed both times. Her husbands adored her and she loved each and doted on each.

You need to set your expectations and have an in-depth conversation and go from there. Nothing is sacred. Get it all out there.

Only then can you start to sort out the next strategy moving forward. Big ships take time to turn. Take the time & see if you guys can turn the ship.

Be honest and do not hold back.

Yes I certainly share blame with my wife for allowing her to sleep with my daughter instead of the marital bed. At the time I was happy about it. I got to sleep in a big bed without being awoke. But obviously its played a big role in our deteriorating sex life.

 

[lamath]

Advice from the old lady:

Your situation has some details worth paying specific attention to.

1. You are ex pats. If you divorce your fatherhood role will be stripped from you in all likelihood as you note. Not good. You have a daughter. Raising her properly is of utmost importance. And it is important she see you and knows you as a man.

2. Your wife sleeps with your daughter.

FULL STOP.

What????????????

YOU have allowed this. Stop allowing it. Period. Your wife must sleep in the marital bed. The sleeping arrangements are screwing up your daughter...never mind your marriage.

Holy **** did not see this, start by sleeping in the same bed.

This is not healthy

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Holy **** did not see this, start by sleeping in the same bed.

This is not healthy

Start by taking you some puzzy. "This will not go on any longer"

 

[Epic Days]

Yeah, if one reads the whole thread, it’s a fuk story. Hahaha

 

[highSpeed]

Start by taking you some puzzy. "This will not go on any longer"

I think that's a dangerous proposition in the modern age. She cries rape, you're done. You can't force her back into the bedroom, I doubt she's really going to do that. Once they've made the decision to start sleeping with the kids instead of the husband, I don't see that going back. However, I'd like to see some suggestions if one thinks that is possible.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I think that's a dangerous proposition in the modern age. She cries rape, you're done. You can't force her back into the bedroom, I doubt she's really going to do that. Once they've made the decision to start sleeping with the kids instead of the husband, I don't see that going back. However, I'd like to see some suggestions if one thinks that is possible.

If she strongly resists or forces a no or stop just stop. Once theyve weaponized and controlled sex its kinda over.

 

[highSpeed]

Regardless.

OP still has to go through the process I and some others has laid out, for good order, this will give him peace of mind and certainty through clarity of her behaviour.

And we should encourage a man to seek that path when he's at the crossroads since he has a daughter.

He has to be allowed to mold her to his current frame.

His previous frame more or less enable her.

He is responsible for it and as such he should likewise be responsible to lead now.

Granted, its an uphill task, since respect is lost.

But if she's willing and displayed it then he should be able garner respect around his 'new frame'.

However OP, if she still doesn't at least move in to the marital bedroom after a sufficient time has elapsed, then you'd need to take steps to end this union.

Set a time frame.

I get it and I'm onboard, trying to fix it is better than simply running out and getting a mistress. I'm sure though, that he isn't just saying something now. I'm sure he didn't let 6 months go by without approaching her about sex, bringing it up, attempting to initiate or arguing about it. When you get to the 6 month mark, that's a choice on her part, a definitive choice on her part.

A month, hey, everyone is off, busy at work, stressed, not feeling good, angry at the other person (It's not right but you could explain that away). Two, ok, someone's not happy (typical woman definition of not happy, everyone else, not so much). Three months, I'm sure there was some arguing about the topic of no sex. Four, now you're getting into the I'm done having sex with you territory. Five and six months, it's set in pretty seriously now, he's done getting sex.

You can definitely change some of these behaviors but there has to be a motivator. If you had power in the relationship, like you could take the kids or she goes penniless, you've got some negotiating power. In this modern era, you can't do either of those, so what's your bargaining chip? Loss, fear dread game? Ok, maybe but by 6 months, I'm not sure she has much interest in him anyway, so I'm sure she doesn't care much about losing him, if she's not already exploring or getting some on the side herself.

He's in a real minefield and there really isn't much he can do. A little bit of luck, stirring up some competition anxiety, defining his power at work by advancing himself, showing himself leading other men and the attention it can bring from women, I don't know, maybe but that's a big maybe.

 

[highSpeed]

If she strongly resists or forces a no or stop just stop. Once theyve weaponized and controlled sex its kinda over.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I think it's unbelievably hot to throw her on the bed, bend her over, mush her face into the pillow and start going to town. She may too but that has just as much possibility of going the other way on you and landing you in jail, even if she enjoyed it in the moment. She gets some buyer's remorse after the fact, you could still be in trouble.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Hey, don't get me wrong, I think it's unbelievably hot to throw her on the bed, bend her over, mush her face into the pillow and start going to town. She may too but that has just as much possibility of going the other way on you and landing you in jail, even if she enjoyed it in the moment. She gets some buyer's remorse after the fact, you could still be in trouble.

He will be okay

 

[StayOrGo?]

I get it and I'm onboard, trying to fix it is better than simply running out and getting a mistress. I'm sure though, that he isn't just saying something now. I'm sure he didn't let 6 months go by without approaching her about sex, bringing it up, attempting to initiate or arguing about it. When you get to the 6 month mark, that's a choice on her part, a definitive choice on her part.

A month, hey, everyone is off, busy at work, stressed, not feeling good, angry at the other person (It's not right but you could explain that away). Two, ok, someone's not happy (typical woman definition of not happy, everyone else, not so much). Three months, I'm sure there was some arguing about the topic of no sex. Four, now you're getting into the I'm done having sex with you territory. Five and six months, it's set in pretty seriously now, he's done getting sex.

You can definitely change some of these behaviors but there has to be a motivator. If you had power in the relationship, like you could take the kids or she goes penniless, you've got some negotiating power. In this modern era, you can't do either of those, so what's your bargaining chip? Loss, fear dread game? Ok, maybe but by 6 months, I'm not sure she has much interest in him anyway, so I'm sure she doesn't care much about losing him, if she's not already exploring or getting some on the side herself.

He's in a real minefield and there really isn't much he can do. A little bit of luck, stirring up some competition anxiety, defining his power at work by advancing himself, showing himself leading other men and the attention it can bring from women, I don't know, maybe but that's a big maybe.

Actually....I did let 6 months go by without saying anything. I was figuring things out. Why it happened. Getting into RP. And it wasn't until 3 months that I got very resentful and I started to detach. For me, its not nearly as much about the sex as it is the emotionless, affectionless marriage. But anyway, at this point I'm in a tough spot. I am giving her an opportunity to work things out but if it doesn't work out then I'll get divorce raped and move on. Such is life. I know with 100% certainty I will be able to spin plates on the other side.

 

[Spaz]

I get it and I'm onboard, trying to fix it is better than simply running out and getting a mistress. I'm sure though, that he isn't just saying something now. I'm sure he didn't let 6 months go by without approaching her about sex, bringing it up, attempting to initiate or arguing about it. When you get to the 6 month mark, that's a choice on her part, a definitive choice on her part.

A month, hey, everyone is off, busy at work, stressed, not feeling good, angry at the other person (It's not right but you could explain that away). Two, ok, someone's not happy (typical woman definition of not happy, everyone else, not so much). Three months, I'm sure there was some arguing about the topic of no sex. Four, now you're getting into the I'm done having sex with you territory. Five and six months, it's set in pretty seriously now, he's done getting sex.

You can definitely change some of these behaviors but there has to be a motivator. If you had power in the relationship, like you could take the kids or she goes penniless, you've got some negotiating power. In this modern era, you can't do either of those, so what's your bargaining chip? Loss, fear dread game? Ok, maybe but by 6 months, I'm not sure she has much interest in him anyway, so I'm sure she doesn't care much about losing him, if she's not already exploring or getting some on the side herself.

He's in a real minefield and there really isn't much he can do. A little bit of luck, stirring up some competition anxiety, defining his power at work by advancing himself, showing himself leading other men and the attention it can bring from women, I don't know, maybe but that's a big maybe.

Doesn't matter if its 6 weeks, months or even years he's been denied sex, it's a direct consequences of his previous frame, his past.

He's taking ownership of it now by trying to reframe and she's responding to it, with some cuddles, which is a good start, it doesn't turn all fairy land in a week, it takes time.

And we advice him as such, which is a wise and rational course of action for him.

So carry on it must, to soldier on for there's love yet in his heart for his wife, for his family and by his own post from her to him. These are good signs.

Let's allow him to lead her, for in the past he was sorely lacking in many areas.

If he fails and she remains the same then he should then consider other options as many of us has pointed out. But for now, let's not talk about it as it can assume a life of its own and we don't want this too.

So let's offer him solutions to repair 1st.

And if things get from worse to worst, then we will also advise him the next course of action using our collective wisdom - when he has reached that road.

 

[highSpeed]

Actually....I did let 6 months go by without saying anything. I was figuring things out. Why it happened. Getting into RP. And it wasn't until 3 months that I got very resentful and I started to detach. For me, its not nearly as much about the sex as it is the emotionless, affectionless marriage. But anyway, at this point I'm in a tough spot. I am giving her an opportunity to work things out but if it doesn't work out then I'll get divorce raped and move on. Such is life. I know with 100% certainty I will be able to spin plates on the other side.

Divorce rape is real and it's nothing to mess with. Look, I get

Doesn't matter if its 6 weeks, months or even years he's been denied sex, it's a direct consequences of his previous frame, his past.

He's taking ownership of it now by trying to reframe and she's responding to it, with some cuddles, which is a good start, it doesn't turn all fairy land in a week, it takes time.

And we advice him as such, which is a wise and rational course of action for him.

So carry on it must, to soldier on for there's love yet in his heart for his wife, for his family and by his own post from her to him. These are good signs.

Let's allow him to lead her, for in the past he was sorely lacking in many areas.

If he fails and she remains the same then he should then consider other options as many of you pointed out. But for now, let's not talk about it as it can assume a life of its own and we don't want this too.

So let's offer him solutions to repair 1st.

And if things get from worse to worst, then we will also advise him the next course of action using our collective wisdom - when he has reached that road.

The only road that I can see here is trying some mental games to shift the power back to his side. You're not going to hit her head on and have her go your way, he doesn't have the negotiating resources necessary to do so. It has to be more of a flanking mission, so it is more subtle and without engaging her pushback mentality, which has been enabled by the situation they are both in. After you've flanked her, then you can attempt a head-on confrontation perhaps but you have to regain the mental upperhand first.

I'll be waiting for suggestions, hell, perhaps I can apply them as well.

 

[Spaz]

Divorce rape is real and it's nothing to mess with. Look, I get

The only road that I can see here is trying some mental games to shift the power back to his side. You're not going to hit her head on and have her go your way, he doesn't have the negotiating resources necessary to do so. It has to be more of a flanking mission, so it is more subtle and without engaging her pushback mentality, which has been enabled by the situation they are both in. After you've flanked her, then you can attempt a head-on confrontation perhaps but you have to regain the mental upperhand first.

I'll be waiting for suggestions, hell, perhaps I can apply them as well.

Since you asked, I'll offer a suggestion to get the ball rolling for OP since his wife has shown interest to better their marriage.

For a man to have power he must 1st display it through his leadership, a skill set that empowers his family to aim for greater heights.

Previously I said, head to the beach, this is an example and let's use that example to explore on how he could display his leadership through empowering his wife and daughter with them feeling wanted, appreciated and being all around happier.

He could then replicate this example the same way or in other facets of his leadership.

I'll make it step by step for good order and easy understanding.

1. Gather the family for dinner.
2. Inform them that you're decided to take a trip the beach and have a BBQ, attendance is compulsory.
3. Partition out each work the wife and daughter needs do in preparation of the BBQ, prior to leaving the house.
4. The above 1 - 3 steps is where you exercise ur "head of the family" dictatorial powers. If the wife or daughter makes moves to subvert that power, brush it aside by simply saying "the family that plays together sticks together", now they have nothing to counter that.
5. From hereon only express ur leadership of empowerment.
6. Hold discussions with both wife and daughter on how to make the day trip to the beach a success.
7. Ask for suggestions, allow their imagination to flourish, encourage it as they give ideas, let them feel wanted and important.
8. As ideas flow in, pick one that YOU think amuses you most, then encourage whomever gave out that idea by asking more follow up questions, let them think on it and provide the resources - this will make a person feel needed, appreciated and all around create a good vibe.
9. Replicate No. 8 on another idea until you have sufficient 'games' for the day trip to have fun.
10. Now partition out the plan for games and entertainment (for the day trip) to ur wife and daughter, granting them powers to execute it, offering them resources, time to prepare and only when asked, ur guidance but never instruct - remember that. Allow them to take ownership of said task.
11. End.

All the above is a display of power.

Is it hard?

Or easy to accomplish?

 

[highSpeed]

Since you asked, I'll offer a suggestion to get the ball rolling for OP since his wife has shown interest to better their marriage.

For a man to have power he must 1st display it through his leadership, a skill set that empowers his family to aim for greater heights.

Previously I said, head to the beach, this is an example and let's use that example to explore on how he could display his leadership through empowering his wife and daughter with them feeling wanted, appreciated and being all around happier.

He could then replicate this example the same way or in other facets of his leadership.

I'll make it step by step for good order and easy understanding.

1. Gather the family for dinner.
2. Inform them that you're decided to take a trip the beach and have a BBQ, attendance is compulsory.
3. Partition out each work the wife and daughter needs do in preparation of the BBQ, prior to leaving the house.
4. The above 1 - 3 steps is where you exercise ur "head of the family" dictatorial powers. If the wife or daughter makes moves to subvert that power, brush it aside by simply saying "the family that plays together sticks together", now they have nothing to counter that.
5. From hereon only express ur leadership of empowerment.
6. Hold discussions with both wife and daughter on how to make the day trip to the beach a success.
7. Ask for suggestions, allow their imagination to flourish, encourage it as they give ideas, let them feel wanted and important.
8. As ideas flow in, pick one that YOU think amuses you most, then encourage whomever gave out that idea by asking more follow up questions, let them think on it and provide the resources - this will make a person feel needed, appreciated and all around create a good vibe.
9. Replicate No. 8 on another idea until you have sufficient 'games' for the day trip to have fun.
10. Now partition out the plan for games and entertainment (for the day trip) to ur wife and daughter, granting them powers to execute it, offering them resources, time to prepare and only when asked, ur guidance but never instruct - remember that. Allow them to take ownership of said task.
11. End.

All the above is a display of power.

Is it hard?

Or easy to accomplish?

fantastic dude, absolutely fantastic. great idea!! like the example!! going to try it out myself, I appreciate the ability to steal.

 

[Spaz]

fantastic dude, absolutely fantastic. great idea!! like the example!! going to try it out myself, I appreciate the ability to steal.

Don't worry it will work.

Because.

Spaz is a mother fvcking great man.

(I know it's irritating but I have the power to bully you azzholes into greatness).