why should i pay-we hardly now each other-not even a date

[DavenJuan]

the problem i think is this....

when compared to other guys, women think that we "are" cheap because we decide not to pay whether or not its fair or not is regardless.

When you go out with a women and she has you who isnt willing to foot the bill and likes you versus the guy who does foot the bill and she likes as well, of course she is going to (most of the time) see more interest in this guy who she likes and is willing to spend on her.

its a shame that we have men out there who is willing to "pay" for these womens interest.

now personally i dont mind paying giving the situation, however when there are men out there who pay for everything, everytime and women are use to this, it makes us look cheap and selfish.

IMO

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

the problem i think is this....

when compared to other guys, women think that we "are" cheap because we decide not to pay whether or not its fair or not is regardless....

Oh, it's more insidious than that. When you live the life of a DJ there is a myriad of things which you have to contend with because you are being compared to the stereotypical "nice guy."

1. You're a player
2. You're too picky
3. You're too confident
4. You're too ****y
5. You're too interested in sex
6. You can not commit
7. You devalue women
8. You're making it worse for "nice guys"
9. You have unrealistic views of women
10. You're cheap

And those are just off the top of my head. Ever wonder why some guys revert to their AFC ways? The load of a DJ is heavy to carry.

 

[iqqi]

Ok, I get that you distanced yourself from the 'cheap' jibe by saying it's what other women think. But you also say it's 'true' and how you will come across negatively if you don't pay for everything.

I wasn't saying that it is true that if you don't pay, then you are cheap. I was saying that it is true that most women will regard you that way.

I know that many men don't pay, to avoid looking AFC. That is a bigger turn off to me then being cheap! It usually means he IS INDEED AFC, if his "method" of being a DJ is to be cheap. Having to tell someone that they will pick up the check next time?? Dude, what makes you think you have the right to tell someone what they will do next time? What an insult. It would be better to just split the bill then and there.

The lack of class is amazing here.

Your advice is the usual female stand-point. You believe you like men to act one way, you discuss this with your friends and all agree you like a man to behave in a certain, often AFC way - then find yourself irresistibly attracted to those men who ignore the 'rules' and make you want to prove yourself worthy of HIM.

Yeah... right. Keep telling yourself that. Sounds like a male version of "disney" to me.

Sure there are chicks like what you just described.

Most men aren't worthy, especially the ones who think they are worthy JUST BECAUSE they "know better" than to pay for the dinner date HE asked for.


Francisco, I saw what you wrote, too, I just simply disagree with most of it.

And the part about a free dinner vs a treated dinner thing... I just think it is a tacky way of looking at it.

Its like if you got a girl flowers, and then looked at it like, "Hey, you got free flowers out of it!"

Or if you gave some hot chick a ride home, "Hey! You got a free ride out of it!"

Took a chick to the zoo, and paid for her admission? "Hey! You got a free zoo trip!"

Its just laughable. Considering her alternatives, and that she didn't NEED any of the "freebies" (and probably wouldn't have even accepted the "offer" if you put it like that), the thought process there just really LACKS CLASS.

 

[wjh]

i going start acting and looking like this guy, he seems playerish, and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C_RpdaGqa8

what. the. f*ck.

 

[Mad Manic]

I think it's ok to pay for the dinner as long as you get laid at the end of it all. If the chick bails after her meal, she should send some cash in the post equal to half the bill since she has decided not to take it further. Sounds fair to me.

MM

 

[wjh]

Iqqi I want your comments on my line of thinking if you don't mind. I'm not seeking your validation I'm simply curious of your opinion.

As I see it, many men are bitter and frustrated with the whole dating/male-female dynamic. Obviously these issues, such as paying for dinner, 50 years ago were never even contemplated. That has changed. The primary reason for that is the disconnect between what a man is supposed to do as a man and what a woman is supposed to do as a woman.

We have a state of social and gender confusion (hat-tip str8up). Whether or not you choose to believe that, I urge you to at least consider it. This is the background from which most men in the West now grow-up in.

When you do something as simple as asking a girl out to dinner, many conflicting points of view, and social contrivances, come to mind. The primary urge most men have when they initially meet a woman they are attracted to is sex. Men's sexuality is what drives them to ask you out to begin with. A woman's sexuality is what says yes or no.

Dinner dates are absolute social contrivances that result from thousands of years of social evolution. Today, there is no clear-cut methodology for dates period. Hence the confusion and contradictions expressed by many people here.

For most of us in the DJ/seduction community, those at least over 25, we've come to accept that reality. We've come to accept the fact that every young woman we encounter is fairly unpredictable. Given this, we've turned it around and focused on ourselves. Our paradigms have shifted. Many of us no longer view things in typical ways. We're much more calculating and observant. We are conscious of the game.

When I talk to a girl that I find attractive I determine whether or not she finds me attractive and/or is interested in me for me. If only after speaking to her I get a cold-shoulder, or I don't feel she is genuine, I simply lose ALL interest and move on. I will not pressure or try to manipulate a girl into having sex with me. I would rather have less sex and have it on my terms.

Dinner dates should be rewards for women you feel are worth taking to dinner. Just as when you take a friend out to dinner.

I think the problem lies in not being able to gauge a woman's interest balanced by ones own interest. ONEitis creates an inability to see outside of the male's fabricated idealization.

It's not as simple as stating that a man must pay for dinner, not expect anything, and be absolutely level-headed (if not cheerful) about it. The desire for more from a woman we find attractive, from the jump, is very powerful. If everything "seems" great, and we thus ask a woman out to dinner, and yet she freezes up - becomes ice cold - that expectation of male-female sexuality turns into bitter frustration.

It's almost like there seems to be a deep-rooted social taboo against expressed male sexuality, to be honest. Male sexuality expressed as subterfuge most definitely. But that's something in the male psyche that almost seems biological. Just as it seems almost biological for a woman to be attracted to men with power and a lot of $.

 

[wjh]

bump

 

[Master Bates]

Most men aren't worthy, especially the ones who think they are worthy JUST BECAUSE they "know better" than to pay for the dinner date HE asked for.

Seriously, get over yourself. You don't exactly sound like a grand prize. If a guy asks you out to dinner would you not have paid for your dinner otherwise that night? If you don't want to pay for your own food, then don't go. Men are always supposed to pay for a woman's dinner because it's "just the way it is" and they need to prove themselves to you? What makes you so special? How did you earn that? Men paying for dinners is an antiquated piece of ancient courting, a form of courting women have killed in the past several decades. You still have yet to give any reason as to why a man should pay for a woman's dinner in this day and age, aside from the overly transparent "because we benefit from it, thats 'cuz why".

You want a free meal, do something to earn it.

 

[Reluctant_Seducer]

I always offer to pay regardless if it's our first or 2nd date..I would actually pay for all of the dates,depending if it was a girl of interest either sex or just casually dating..it's really no big deal.I think it has to more to do with why you are paying..are you doing it because 'it's just what you do' or are you doing it expecting to get something out of it? I think a girl can tell right away the differences..guys act like they will get laid just because he bought dinner and a movie lol.

it's no big deal to me really..you're not paying for her attention or time.It's just what you do,I think alot of the 'rules' or whatever are kinda stupid quite honestly...do what you want.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Is it just me who hasn't seen an explanation (or justification) in this thread on why a guy should pay to entertain a woman he's just met other than "because he's a guy and it's how it has always been?"

 

[Reluctant_Seducer]

I just think it's tacky to bust out with..ticket for one please,the girl will pay for her own lol.Or can we have separate checks? It's just plain tacky..I think too many guys think they are too cool for school without whole lot to back it up and just presume they are the prize and therefore for be treated like one..just cuz.

It's no only repulsive but completely unattractive IMO..it's like the geeks playing cool because they think it cool ..to be cool lol...umm..ooookaay..

 

[Mad Manic]

*Delete*

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I just think it's tacky to bust out with..ticket for one please,the girl will pay for her own lol.Or can we have separate checks? It's just plain tacky..I think too many guys think they are too cool for school without whole lot to back it up and just presume they are the prize and therefore for be treated like one..just cuz.

It's no only repulsive but completely unattractive IMO..it's like the geeks playing cool because they think it cool ..to be cool lol...umm..ooookaay..

So why do you guys feel that you need to buy things whenever you are with a woman, more specifically one you just met? It's as if you guys are diverting attention away from you and that buying things is the only way that you can impress them; that's a bit lame. Is this why so many guys feel that unless you have a ton of money you can't attract women?

 

[wjh]

I would buy a girl dinner if I was able to determine she wasn't just a typical slag. I require way more out of a girl than just good looks for me to offer her dinner.

I don't see why you would buy a girl dinner, or anyone for that matter, if you don't know anything about them.

If you're That type of person let me know when you're in the LA area and you want to buy me some good dinner and drinks. I'll be happy to entertain some conversation for a good meal.

 

[future_strongguy]

"Oh, great Woman! I am so happy to finally meet your great self! Please, let me pay for your meal!"

This doesn't sound like Don Juan to me! Don Juan is supposed to be busy. He is always doing something exciting, and doesn't have all the time in the world for the woman. He is finding time in his busy schedule (after all, he is busy climbing mountains, and swimming across rivers, right?) to meet the woman. She should be happy that he even has the time for her!

Don Juan knows he is the Prize. The focus should be on you. The days of chivalry are dead, due to Feminism (but that's for a different post!).

I once read:

The ultimate test of a woman's character is to see how she treats people who can do nothing for her.

Now, the man she is on a date with can so something for her. He can pay for her, and she can weed him of what he's worth. Thus, this date is not a true sense of character. When she pays for herself (willingly), then you know she is truly interested in you. You are the Prize after all, right?

So, gentlemen (or should I now say... strongmen?), forget about chivalry and masculinity (I am not talking about being a Man (testosterone) - I am talking about being the "knight" that women will weed everything from). Start focusing on yourself!

(By the way, sometimes she will even pay for you!)

 

[Master Bates]

I just think it's tacky to bust out with..ticket for one please,the girl will pay for her own lol.Or can we have separate checks? It's just plain tacky..I think too many guys think they are too cool for school without whole lot to back it up and just presume they are the prize and therefore for be treated like one..just cuz.

It's no only repulsive but completely unattractive IMO..it's like the geeks playing cool because they think it cool ..to be cool lol...umm..ooookaay..

Each person paying for what they ate is "tacky"? No, it's sensible. Your way is antiquated and sexist, and you've just been indoctrinated by women who feel entitled to free meals for no reason to believe that it's the right thing to do. Paying for a cup of coffee or a drink on a first or second date is a nice gesture, but anything beyond that is just playing into their game, and if it's never reciprocated, you're dealing with a selfish ho with an entitlement complex.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Each person paying for what they ate is "tacky"? No, it's sensible. Your way is antiquated and sexist, and you've just been indoctrinated by women who feel entitled to free meals for no reason to believe that it's the right thing to do. Paying for a cup of coffee or a drink on a first or second date is a nice gesture, but anything beyond that is just playing into their game, and if it's never reciprocated, you're dealing with a selfish ho with an entitlement complex.

Hey, it's easier to play along and give in than do something bold and different.

 

[Reluctant_Seducer]

Each person paying for what they ate is "tacky"? No, it's sensible. Your way is antiquated and sexist, and you've just been indoctrinated by women who feel entitled to free meals for no reason to believe that it's the right thing to do. Paying for a cup of coffee or a drink on a first or second date is a nice gesture, but anything beyond that is just playing into their game, and if it's never reciprocated, you're dealing with a selfish ho with an entitlement complex.

right...coming from a site where it teaches guys to 'be the prize,I am the master' and so forth...hows that for building an entitlement complex? lol

I do it because I feel it's right and it's what I do,regardless of studies or crap that was written or discussed by a bunch of gurus or internet geeks.There is no mystical explanation or whatever motives behind it..I do it because I choose to,end of story not everything in the world has to have a thought out and rationalized reason for anything...

if you do it,great..if you don't don't think you are some sort a don juan or thinking that you are being soo bold and different..because that's kinda douchy lol.

Alot of this seduction stuff is great but too many people take it all a little too literally or make it some sort of cosmic religion to follow rofl...

$15-20 for a fun night out is no big deal.:woo:

don't make enough money? quit crying,get a better job

I think some guys will take this too literally and act like lil pricks thinking they are the shiet and are all like..yeah,I don't do the whole buying dinner thing.It's like they swing from the geekside of the spectrum allll the way to the other side by being arrogant and idiotic card board cut out of everything they have ever read or seen on a seduction site or program..it's really unoriginal and it's just plain sad imo.They were better off as lovable losers..they get a piece of azz and they think they are some sort of studs? give me a break...


fvck it.. do what you want,if you fugg up and even if you fugg up pretty bad..good for you! It'll teach you not to do that ever again or do it differently so you're not so jacked up from doing it lol.:kick:

trial and error ..experience if the best key to success,even if it kicks your azz the first few times.:woo:

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...
I do it because I feel it's right and it's what I do,regardless of studies or crap that was written or discussed by a bunch of gurus or internet geeks.

So what else do you arbitrarily do without any reason other than "it feels right?"

...$15-20 for a fun night out is no big deal.:woo:

Damn, now that's cheap. :crackup:

 

[Reluctant_Seducer]

So why do you guys feel that you need to buy things whenever you are with a woman, more specifically one you just met? It's as if you guys are diverting attention away from you and that buying things is the only way that you can impress them; that's a bit lame. Is this why so many guys feel that unless you have a ton of money you can't attract women?

I said pay for the date not shower her with material items to gain her approval or acceptance..you ASSUME extravagant gifts,toys,clothing or whatever ..You assume you buying their attention,love or approval..thats what MOST guys do.That's a difference from paying for a movie and popcorn,dinner or just something to do when you all are out..c'mon.The last thing you want to do is break the mood or awesome chemistry all these things going through your mind like; wow,shes actually pretty cool, we get along great yadda yadda yadda..she's lit up and smiling cheek to cheek,her hand is firm in my grip we are totally getting along!...'oh no..one for me and one for the lady' hands the cashier a $20,more then enough for the both of you ,pocket the cash and be like..'oh ,we are paying separately' while standing there like you deserve a medal because you are being so bold and different..

yeah..you look like a total douche and an idiot to boot..it's just plain tacky imo..it's $16-18..pay for it because it's no big deal but don't stand there like you just did her some great deed or something and don't expect shiet for it.

Not saying you have to lavish her with all the crap in the world...but if a movie and popcorn or dinner is too much to handle ,then shiet...