Why Have So Many Well Known Pickup Artists Had Major Personal Issues?

[mrgoodstuff]

During their time their stuff worked, however it was able to penetrate the matrix and various social hierarchies at that time. The people in those social hierarchies aren't going to let someone outside of their group having "pull", so they all closed the doors together. It's been "shut down" or at least there is a large drive to do that and keep it that way.

Basically PUA's were able to "hack" the game at their height of prominence and the various systems responded.

 

[Kotaix]

There is no benefit to chasing more and more of the same thing. It doesn't matter what it is, be it pvssy, business deals, money, gambling, drugs, etc. If you chase it too much, if you do it for the thrill and become addicted, you will eventually burn out and be miserable.

You always need to have a stopping point in mind.

 

[HaleyBaron]

You're suppose to build up a good group of women then stick to them while you focus your energy from gathering women to your own business prospects. Women are there for sex first and foremost, and sometimes baby making. So anything, they got too out of control of the chase and not the managing part.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Same reason why so many people in Hollywood have major personal issues. The public persona that you see is not real. What lies beneath the facade is usually a deeply troubled individual with major emotional baggage.

 

[Gamisch]

Love @metalwater comment.

It's just a cope . Female attention as a bandaid for deeper pain. You can have thousand women telling you a million times you're a great guy, if you dont believe that...

Imo the funny thing is, that getting pvssy is the easy part, actually keeping it is a lot harder. You have to search within yourself to find what is really lacking. Just picking up women wont do that. That's why men like that go crazy eventually .

 

[SW15]

You're suppose to build up a good group of women then stick to them while you focus your energy from gathering women to your own business prospects. Women are there for sex first and foremost, and sometimes baby making. So anything, they got too out of control of the chase and not the managing part.

Neil Strauss was definitely a "Thrill of the Hunt" guy. Going out of control of the chase and not managing. I think there's a case to be made Mystery was the same way.

Thrill of the Hunt Men vs. Pleasure of Sex Men - Alpha Male 2.0

-By Caleb Jones This is such a big topic that it will likely be the first of several posts I make about this. This will clear up a lot of confusion you may have regarding conflicting advice in the seduction realm. Few men are aware that...

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I'm more "Pleasure of Sex" vs "Thrill of the Hunt"

 

[BuckledWheel]

Some may say that their books helped them & in a way it probably did. I read Mystery & Strauss a long time ago. I never took their methods as gospel but found some parts really interesting. Their methods back then were probably relevant to the era & helped quite a few guys along the way. The world has moved on without them. Maybe they realised how irrelevant they had become in a more technical domain with just about every Tom & **** getting on the bandwagon. It would certainly account for some personal issues (Fame lost). If you’ve scammed hundreds of chicks with an act, at some stage you’ve got to break because it’s not you being you. It’s you being someone your not. Maybe the act caught up on them. Guys today need to be more honest with themselves from the outset. As for the old school PUA’s I still believe they had a relevance in their time.

 

[Atom Smasher]

They cracked the code back in the day, but today much more nuance is required. Never before has an IDGAF attitude been so important. Most men today broadcast that they are beggars. It’s on them like body odor. It permeates the air around them.

The bottom line though (and most men are blind to this), chasing the P is an exercise in dissipation on so many different levels. It diminishes men and completely destroys women. The most intimate act between a man and a woman has become such a cheap commodity that real relationships are all but impossible. There will be no reversal.

 

[HaleyBaron]

They cracked the code back in the day, but today much more nuance is required. Never before has an IDGAF attitude been so important. Most men today broadcast that they are beggars. It’s on them like body odor. It permeates the air around them.

The bottom line though (and most men are blind to this), chasing the P is an exercise in dissipation on so many different levels. It diminishes men and completely destroys women. The most intimate act between a man and a woman has become such a cheap commodity that real relationships are all but impossible. There will be no reversal.

The reversal is possible. Just require some hard knock changes. War easily will reverse it. Something that will flip society upside down. It certainly happened to many countries and still is the default in third world countries. The only reason women can be like this is because we built them a safe society to act like that in.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

The reversal is possible. Just require some hard knock changes. War easily will reverse it. Something that will flip society upside down. It certainly happened to many countries and still is the default in third world countries. The only reason women can be like this is because we built them a safe society to act like that in.

Nuclear bombs and starting over from the stone ages lol...

 

[DoubleBarrel]

They cracked the code back in the day, but today much more nuance is required. Never before has an IDGAF attitude been so important. Most men today broadcast that they are beggars. It’s on them like body odor. It permeates the air around them.

The bottom line though (and most men are blind to this), chasing the P is an exercise in dissipation on so many different levels. It diminishes men and completely destroys women. The most intimate act between a man and a woman has become such a cheap commodity that real relationships are all but impossible. There will be no reversal.

There will be a reversal. The pendulum always swings back.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

I have found over the years that the vast majority of successful men in any place to some degree have issues of some kind. The reason is that people who are "sane" are often happy and content with the mediocre. Most "normal" people are okay living a "normal" life. A "normal" life includes marry a very average girl, getting a house in the suburbs, and following life to the very script that you were supposed to. A lot of the people that break free from that mold to some degree are strange by the standard of society whether it is a famous musician, famous actor, famous writer, or even successful businesspeople.

Similarly with PUA, it is abnormal by the standard of society. You are to meet your future wife through church, through social circle, or through work. You are not supposed to meet your one night stand or lover through the day because that is not "normal". So often times the very people that push against the standards of society are abnormal and in many cases, do have "issues". It has been the case throughout history.

What I have experienced is that you need to be a little bit crazy in order to be successful in life. Think about "game" for a second. You are voluntarily signing yourself up to be rejected by beautiful women and have your ego bruised and battered worse than Rihana when she dated Chris Brown. Yeah, you'd have to be crazy to sign up for that but it is only the craziest of men who can take those rejections week after week from some of the prettiest women that they are bold enough to approach that see success.

Now granted, some PUAs are genuinely psycho and do not need to be out there. Sasha was a buffoon who set the game community back years by harassing women on the streets. That one Pakistani guy in Scotland that got arrested was an idiot. That being said, there are some PUAs who did pave the way for young men out there to fix their dating lives and break from the mold of society.

 

[HaleyBaron]

I have found over the years that the vast majority of successful men in any place to some degree have issues of some kind. The reason is that people who are "sane" are often happy and content with the mediocre. Most "normal" people are okay living a "normal" life. A "normal" life includes marry a very average girl, getting a house in the suburbs, and following life to the very script that you were supposed to. A lot of the people that break free from that mold to some degree are strange by the standard of society whether it is a famous musician, famous actor, famous writer, or even successful businesspeople.

Similarly with PUA, it is abnormal by the standard of society. You are to meet your future wife through church, through social circle, or through work. You are not supposed to meet your one night stand or lover through the day because that is not "normal". So often times the very people that push against the standards of society are abnormal and in many cases, do have "issues". It has been the case throughout history.

What I have experienced is that you need to be a little bit crazy in order to be successful in life. Think about "game" for a second. You are voluntarily signing yourself up to be rejected by beautiful women and have your ego bruised and battered worse than Rihana when she dated Chris Brown. Yeah, you'd have to be crazy to sign up for that but it is only the craziest of men who can take those rejections week after week from some of the prettiest women that they are bold enough to approach that see success.

Now granted, some PUAs are genuinely psycho and do not need to be out there. Sasha was a buffoon who set the game community back years by harassing women on the streets. That one Pakistani guy in Scotland that got arrested was an idiot. That being said, there are some PUAs who did pave the way for young men out there to fix their dating lives and break from the mold of society.

Innovators tend to be a little crazy. They will disregard normal stuff to attempt to go out and make risks. If anything, I think that's just the normal mode of being a man. The men who settle already resolved themselves to being content in their class or lifestyle. But they could do more if they had the motivation. No woman ever does what a man does.

 

[SW15]

Innovators tend to be a little crazy. They will disregard normal stuff to attempt to go out and make risks.

If you read "Mystery Method", the rational conclusion would be that Mystery was a bit of a risk taking innovator. I think Roosh's "Bang" was an easier to follow manual than "Mystery Method". Both "Bang" and "Mystery Method" were released in 2007.

I have found over the years that the vast majority of successful men in any place to some degree have issues of some kind. The reason is that people who are "sane" are often happy and content with the mediocre. Most "normal" people are okay living a "normal" life. A "normal" life includes marry a very average girl, getting a house in the suburbs, and following life to the very script that you were supposed to. A lot of the people that break free from that mold to some degree are strange by the standard of society whether it is a famous musician, famous actor, famous writer, or even successful businesspeople.

This is accurate.

With business people, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, and Bill Gates all broke the mold starting their companies.

I've followed the script to some degree. I've gotten higher education and become a corporate employee. I broke the mold in terms of romantic relationships though.

Similarly with PUA, it is abnormal by the standard of society. You are to meet your future wife through church, through social circle, or through work. You are not supposed to meet your one night stand or lover through the day because that is not "normal". So often times the very people that push against the standards of society are abnormal and in many cases, do have "issues". It has been the case throughout history.

See chart below. Online dating/swipe apps are now part of the conventional way to meet your future wife. Social circle is still quite common but has been declining for about 30 years, as has meeting your future wife through your workplace. Church is so minimal now as a way to meet a wife.

Meeting a girlfriend through a non-bar approach is a bit unconventional now. I would say that doing approaches in bars is still conventional but not as popular as it was in the 1980s-2000s.

What I have experienced is that you need to be a little bit crazy in order to be successful in life. Think about "game" for a second. You are voluntarily signing yourself up to be rejected by beautiful women and have your ego bruised and battered worse than Rihana when she dated Chris Brown. Yeah, you'd have to be crazy to sign up for that but it is only the craziest of men who can take those rejections week after week from some of the prettiest women that they are bold enough to approach that see success.

All accurate.

 

[HaleyBaron]

If you read "Mystery Method", the rational conclusion would be that Mystery was a bit of a risk taking innovator. I think Roosh's "Bang" was an easier to follow manual than "Mystery Method". Both "Bang" and "Mystery Method" were released in 2007.



This is accurate.

With business people, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, and Bill Gates all broke the mold starting their companies.

I've followed the script to some degree. I've gotten higher education and become a corporate employee. I broke the mold in terms of romantic relationships though.



See chart below. Online dating/swipe apps are now part of the conventional way to meet your future wife. Social circle is still quite common but has been declining for about 30 years, as has meeting your future wife through your workplace. Church is so minimal now as a way to meet a wife.

Meeting a girlfriend through a non-bar approach is a bit unconventional now. I would say that doing approaches in bars is still conventional but not as popular as it was in the 1980s-2000s.



All accurate.

Jesus christ, that online hill climb.

 

[evan12]

Tom Torero: Has a scandal surrounding non-consensual recordings. Dies unexpectedly. Family confirms his death was a suicide.

Roosh: Sister dies of breast cancer. Leads to emotional breakdown. Has a religious conversion and condemns pickup, seduction, and all non-marital sex.

Neil Strauss: Was borderline incel before meeting Mystery and other PUAs. That's notable because Strauss was a Gen X'er and inceldom didn't become big until the Millennial generation became more prominent. After learning from Mystery, becomes a quality seducer and ends up in sex addiction rehab. Gets married, writes book denouncing pickup and seduction, gets divorced.

Mystery: Was rumored to have dropped out of the public eye due to some serious mental health afflictions.

Roosh was incel for years especially after he passed 30 in my openion , he is now trying to play a good guy to get a girl and maybe to avoid some law suits
Strauss looked normal for me , getting divorced doesnt mean he is crazy

Mystery he too got older and last time I saw him with his kid and beautiful gf .

you have to keep in mind , when the man get older it become too hard to stay pickup artist and many release that and start retreating.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Interesting that you bring up age. A lot of the well known pickup artists were Gen X'ers (1965-1980/1981 birth years)

• Roosh (born 1979)
• Mystery (born 1971)
• David DeAngelo (born 1971)
• Neil Strauss (born 1969)

Tom Torero, Caleb Jones (Blackdragon), and even Tucker Max were all born in the Gen X years.

There are many fewer big name Millennial (1981/82-1996) pickup artists. I think Austen Summers is one. Millennials are appearing to be more black pill, into porn/mbating on tube sites, or peddling NFTs than practicing attraction and seduction.

Gen X baby. When you don't have a participation trophy culture, you can get a lot of **** done.

 

[AureliusMaximus]

Tom Torero: Has a scandal surrounding non-consensual recordings. Dies unexpectedly. Family confirms his death was a suicide.

Roosh: Sister dies of breast cancer. Leads to emotional breakdown. Has a religious conversion and condemns pickup, seduction, and all non-marital sex.

Neil Strauss: Was borderline incel before meeting Mystery and other PUAs. That's notable because Strauss was a Gen X'er and inceldom didn't become big until the Millennial generation became more prominent. After learning from Mystery, becomes a quality seducer and ends up in sex addiction rehab. Gets married, writes book denouncing pickup and seduction, gets divorced.

Mystery: Was rumored to have dropped out of the public eye due to some serious mental health afflictions.

Attempting to solve your own personal issues with adding more issues = girls (which adds a ton of drama, distraction etc. etc.), doesn't make your life better and will certainly not solve anything, but in the long run make it worse and more stressful.

It is a bit the same way like it is with money:
Money is just a tool and boring in itself. So It is neither evil/bad, good or anything else; Just a tool and that is it...
(Heck it isn't even real. It is an invention and mind concept of mankind to solve the issue of trade/bartering. Nothing else.)

So it per see doesn't add anything directly to your happiness; although it will improve your life and give opportunities, but if you are not in balance with yourself prior to getting the wealth it brings it will probably make you more miserable.

But if you are in balance with yourself then money will certainly make your life happier.

Too many people are looking for a relationship to make them happier; meaning they believe that their chosen partner will make them happy and solve their personal issues and expect them to be their solution and life saver. But it is actually reverse.

If you want to change the world and make it a happier place then you must start with changing yourself first. Only then when you reach that state of balance with yourself then others will notice that and hopefully it will make an positive impact in them too.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Perhaps the reason they became obsessed with it was due to having serious underlying personal issues in the first place?

Perhaps becoming good with women was like a temporary drug they got high on that made them forget their other issues for a while but eventually the chickens always come back to roost?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Update on Mystery...

What Happened to Erik von Markovik? What is Mystery Doing Now? - Techie + Gamers

You probably think that pickup as a thing is dead. You may think they’re dated, maybe even anachronistic, and misogynist to boot. There’s a good chance you even cringe at the concept, not to mention the horde of gurus who’ll be happy to sell you their best “lines” for a price. Or maybe you’re into

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