Why Does Man Lie?

[iqqi]

Eh, this topic is why do men lie. The answer was, why do people lie? That's pretty much the end of the thread topic.

I see nothing to indicate that the lie in question had anything whatsoever to do with the gender of the liar.

Well, many would say that men and women lie for different reasons.

Also it is commonly said on this forum that men are of better character than women, and whatnot, so if you see my last question about men lying about who they ARE, maybe the original question will make sense. Maybe not. I don't have ALL the answers... I am seeking them!

 

[joekerr31]

What about a man who lies about his ideas. And beliefs... WHAT would be the point of that??

And I think I am coming to some sort of understanding...

to get into your panties.

 

[iqqi]

to get into your panties.

You jocks and your one track minds.

What of the man who lies to OTHER MEN about his ideas??? And beliefs.

I KNOW a great deal of why men lie to women specifically. This is NOT about that.

 

[cordoncordon]

Men generally lie to avoid punishment, for power, for money, for approval-most of the time from women, or to feel better about themselves-sometimes if they tell themselves a lie enough times, they start to believe it.

Most other reasons I would think involve something very specific to a situation, or they are just pathalogical and get a subversive or sadistic kick out of it.

 

[iqqi]

Men generally lie to avoid punishment, for power, for money, for approval, or to feel better about themselves-sometimes if they tell themselves a lie enough times, they start to believe it.

Most other reasons I would think involve something very specific to a situation, or they are just pathalogical and get a subversive or sadistic kick out of it.

That is pretty deep.

I'll admit here at this point, that I have noticed a few lies told on this board. And I am not talking trolls, or troll lies. I mean, real genuine posters. Some are white lies, others are deeper than that. And I do wonder, what the point is. Is the man lying to himself, by lying to the forum? If so, maybe you answered my question by saying this: to feel better about themselves-sometimes if they tell themselves a lie enough times, they start to believe it.

 

[joekerr31]

You jocks and your one track minds.

What of the man who lies to OTHER MEN about his ideas??? And beliefs.

I KNOW a great deal of why men lie to women specifically. This is NOT about that.

generally speaking its to appear more alpha. the male world works more like a wolf pack. the alpha dog leads the pack - everyone gives way to the pack leader. then within the pack some dogs are more alpha than others, and the weaker ones have to give way to them also.

so men will lie to each other to convince other men that they are more alpha than they really are in an attempt to trick other males into giving them respect and establishing them as the leader and the other males as the followers.

i see this ALL the time in the corporate world. when i meet someone for the first time I almost always get the 5 minute resume run down as they drop names and exaggerate their importance.

women dont get this because in the female world women don't really do this. women are the opposite of men this way. they will front 'oh no no, we're all equal. its great to have you on board. this is going to be so much fun.' then 5 minutes later start spreading gossip through the office about the person they just welcomed to the team.

as such, men are very use to lying to someones face - they do it to try to increase their place in the alpha order of things. women lie to people's faces, but its generally to make them feel at ease (lower their gaurd), then when their backs are turned they pull out the knives.

anyway, all these types of people make me laugh. people who are truly confident, successful, etc. have no need to lie to become alpha, they already ARE alpha.

 

[Interceptor]

Iqqi, many men lie to avoid confrontation, to keep the peace, and sometimes to try to identify bvetter with a woman in the hopes that she will think that they have something in conmon.
Both women and men lie obviously for diffenet reasons, but it isusually about something that they may be lacking. People who are generally very insecure, are generally liars. NOt ALL the time, and not with EVERYBODY. But to thenm, it is justified more often thannot. because they do it to make up for the fact that they lack certain things in life.
Thier image is extremely important to them, so they do anything to try to keep that image intact, even through lying.


When a guy lies with : "Oh yeah! I like XYZ too!!!"
But in fact he DOESNT..
He is trying to conform to the woman's preferences, thus, in his mind, he is in a better chance for this woman to 'like him'.

It often doesnt enter the guy's mind, that the woman may be looking for other tastes, prefrences, opinions, and ideas, not the same exact things.


This is why, although counterintuitive for many, a man on a date should always stick to his opinions and tastes no matter what the woman says or does, even if she acts disapproving.
A Man has to be willing to 'lose' a woman, even if it means he sticks to his guns and stays true to himself.
It is important to stand up for one's Healthy and Positive beliefs , opinions, and values, even if others dont agree with them.


And if you dont have an opinion on somthing its ok to admit it to her, and ask her to tell you about it or even teach you something new.

Her; "Well, I think that yada yada and yada."

Guy: "Well, I dont agree with that at all. Because I think yada yada yada.'

Her; (mouth agape and look of disbelief that he didnt agree with her)
"wh-wh-what??"

Guy: (calm and relaxed) "Yeah, thats what I think."

Her: (turns her head away and stays quiet)

Guy: (still calm and relaxed)

 

[penkitten]

i think people lie out of fear when they are afraid.

 

[iqqi]

I was waiting for you to respond Interceptor!

But reframe the question, so it isn't a man lying to a woman thing. This is deeper than that.

 

[joekerr31]

next time you are with a group of males watch how they behave. what you will notice is that instinctively the males of the group tend to fall into a hiercharchy.

a leader will emerge, then second in command, then the rest will constitute the pack.

women dont do this generally. women are really bad at working as a group - whereas men instinctively know how to form a pack. men feel comfortable in a pack, whereas women like being independent (mostly cuz they cant trust other women).

its funny as hell. you can have a meeting with 5 guys, and within 3 minutes a leader has emerged and everyone has a task and for better or worse its off to the races.

whereas you can have a meeting with 5 women, and the first 15 minutes is spent talking about the task and who should do what based on group consensus and if everyone is ok with how the tasks have been split up, etc.

because the number one thing women care about is not being disliked. whereas the number one thing men care about is being the leader, or at least establishing their position in the pack.

human nature is quite funny.

 

[Phyzzle]

I have known a MULTITUDE of women who have told me about being raped, in one case by her father, yet when you listen to the details, they're all jumbled up and aren't really plausible. When I ask them to explain, it always comes out that they're "not really sure" if anything out of the ordinary happened at all.

In fact, I've seen the same phenomenon reported by guys on this board plenty of times. Seeing as you're a woman, explain that to us.

But what's this? You say your gender doesn't help you understand liars of the same gender? Yeah, that's kind of the wall you're running into here.

 

[Interceptor]

I was waiting for you to respond Interceptor!

But reframe the question, so it isn't a man lying to a woman thing. This is deeper than that.

I know, Iq. I didnt talk about that because everyone else already did,. I just posted a small topic I thought was relevant and wanted to say.

It is deeper. But IMO it is about what a person LACKS.
Lying is about making up for a LACK of something in one's life.

 

[cordoncordon]

To quote Devo....

"The next thing I say to you will be true, the last thing I said was false."

 

[joekerr31]

I have known a MULTITUDE of women who have told me about being raped, in one case by her father, yet when you listen to the details, they're all jumbled up and aren't really plausible. When I ask them to explain, it always comes out that they're "not really sure" if anything out of the ordinary happened at all.

In fact, I've seen the same phenomenon reported by guys on this board plenty of times. Seeing as you're a woman, explain that to us.

But what's this? You say your gender doesn't help you understand liars of the same gender? Yeah, that's kind of the wall you're running into here.

framing themselves as the victim to spur the man to become captain save a ho, thereby emotionally blackmailing the man into doing what she wants.

#1 manipulation strategy women use is playing the victim.
#2 manipulation strategy they use is p*ssy power
#3 manipulation strategy they use is throwing tantrums (basically annoying the sh*t out of you like a child would)
#4 minapulation strategy they use, irionically, is spinning plates / branch swinging.

2 out of the 4 require excessive amounts of lying.

 

[iqqi]

But what's this? You say your gender doesn't help you understand liars of the same gender? Yeah, that's kind of the wall you're running into here.

Haha, I am starting to have a real new found respect for your humour and intelligence, Phyzzle.

Anyways, I may have ruined the true philosiphical inquiry I was originally aiming for, by responding too much.

I guess another one of my questions is, whether or not a man lying about his character, is a SINISTER thing. Or something deeply personal, to the liar himself.

And how that should affect the people close to him.

 

[iqqi]

It is deeper. But IMO it is about what a person LACKS.
Lying is about making up for a LACK of something in one's life.

Great, great insight. Thanks.

And... interesting.

There are SO MANY reasons to lie!

Devil's advocate question: What are the reasons not to? (TM already answered this for himself).

 

[cordoncordon]

OT: Speaking of very underrated Devo, maybe this could be the So Suave theme song since this song is basically what this site has become?

I give you...LOVE WITHOUT ANGER

Love without anger
Love without anger

He picked up the phone and took the call
A long distance voice just started to bawl
I don’t care if you feel small
Love without anger isn’t love at all

Why can’t you have your cake and eat it too
Why believe in things that make it tough on you
Why scream and cry when you know it’s through
Why fall in love when there’s better things to do

Love without anger
Love without anger

Barbie and Ken in a great big fight
Seems Ken forgot to make it home one night
You know what you are seeing simply can’t be right
Looks like love’s bark is worse than it’s bite

Love without anger

He was young and in love
So he just couldn’t see
And it compelled him to ask
Are you kidding me?
You must be kidding me

Love without anger
Love without anger

Love without teardrops isn’t the same
He asked to be counted out of her game
She thought it him who was so insane
Love is what it does by any other name

But can’t you have your cake and eat it too
Why believe in things that make it tough on you
Why scream and cry when you know it’s through
Why fall in love when there’s better things to do

Love without anger

 

[Interceptor]

Great, great insight. Thanks.

And... interesting.

There are SO MANY reasons to lie!

Devil's advocate question: What are the reasons not to? (TM already answered this for himself).

Because once a man has made up his mind about himself, his principle and values, and has the faith in himself to be able to follow through to the end his vision, his Integrity will not let him.

If a Man has a Code, and he lives by this Code he sees no more value in lying.
He finds Value in being his True Self and living according to his Higher Self.

Instead he calms turmoil through his character , not through lying.

I'd rather be wrong and admit it, than lie
If I have to lie, it means I have failed to circumvent and intercept the circumstance from ever happening

I think the idea is again, like looking at using a Band Aid to cure cancer.
It doesnt address the root of the issue.

The best way to not lie is to not put yourself in a place where you feel you have to
But to do that, you MUST have High Character, and Confidence and Faith in one's self

 

[iqqi]

Because once a man has made up his mind about himself, his principle and values, and has the faith in himself to be able to follow through to the end his vision, his Integrity will not let him.

Ahhhh, integrity.

Yes. I think that may be one of my bigger issues in this situation.

That may be IT, in a nutshell.

 

[grinder]

I am going to keep this extremely bare of a question, before I go deeper into what is on my mind. The only structure I want to give to this discussion at this point, is that I mean Man, as in men. I am well aware all people lie, but I'd like to focus on the reason men lie.

Discuss.

Let me answer with a question: Can you truly lie if you don’t know the truth?

My opinion is few know the truth, few are authentic, few are grounded in such a way that to lie is utterly impossible.

Isn’t lying nothing but another form of ignorance? For, in truth, their can be no lie.

In jokerr’s example of the “lie” of telling the Nazi’s they had no jews in the house, its too easy to get hung up on the semantics of a “lie”. The deeper truth is FOR the Nazi’s, they had no Jews.

We should not confuse simple word-play with deeper truths. Telling your wife the breakfast was good even if it wasn’t is actually a deeper truth, not a lie at all.

So, for me, a lie is confusion, ignorance, and a failure to comprehend the “truth” of the reality one finds oneself in. It is a failure to achieve mastery.

A lie is an attempt to accommodate for this failure.