Why do most men start to "degrade" in LTR's?

[Urbanyst]

• When you apply for a job do you ask "Quick question: why do you need a working example of my past job experience?"
• or how about "Why should you care how long it took my last boss to fire me?"
• When you go down on a girl do you ask "Quick question: would you be disappointed if you learned this was my first time?"
• or how about "Why should you care if I've only dated men?"
• When you were in college, did you stand up in class and ask "People, why do you listen to the professor on this subject and not myself?"
• Would you agree that a 10 year marriage is more successful than a 10 week marriage?

There is no second place trophy in dating. You just admitted all of your relationships became unhealthy and you never made it through a whole year (which is sort of the standard heartbeat of the solar system as seen from Earth).

So on one hand you say your experience doesn't matter, and on the other hand you want to dismiss any working examples of experiences other members have provided.

Again.. what makes a long relationship a healthy one? I'm still waiting for that answer.

 

[bigneil]

Again.. what makes a long relationship a healthy one? I'm still waiting for that answer.

Wait, so you're like a blind person asking what the color red is?

The longer you stay with the same woman, the more you bond with her. The more oxytocin (cuddle chemical) she forms. The more unforgettable you become to her. The more orgasms she has had with you. The more sex you have had with her. The more you can trust her. The more often she will text you. The more excited she will be to see you. Even if you have love at first sight, after 6 months you will love each other more (WAY more according to her the other night). The sex gets much better. Just holding her feels better than sex. Just being inside her feels better than an orgasm used to. Sex feels like one continuous orgasm for hours. You can go three straight times even in your 40's. You both learn to fulfill the image that turns the other on most. You can sense when she is in the room. You know exactly how to satisfy her so you kind of own her. She has a strong emotional connection with you so if she strays and has a one night stand, it will make her regret it and she will miss you. She will then avoid straying on you as long as you are true to her. You can talk about her having your children someday and what they would look like. She will tell you she never felt closer to any man in her life and that you can trust her to be loyal to you. You can relax with her alone in your place with all your stuff. You know she will be there if you ever need to rely on her. You won't find this with more than a few girls in your life. I've lived in 25 cities and I've only found a handful of girls like this.

I prefer that to random one night stands myself, but you might not.

 

[Tenacity]

Right now I have two friends both in their mid 20s who are going through this.

One of them used to have a really good social life and was pretty sought aftet by girls, had a lot of hobbies etc. He got shacked up with a single mother late last year and since then hes put on a good 30lbs and doesnt do ANYTHING anymore. Literally just sits at home watching tv with her eating junk food.

The other one got with an 18 year old fairly hot girl, he's also gotten fat (and this guy used to be a gym rat) he seems to have kept his social life (mostly because his girlfriend has her own seperate one) but last time i went drinking with him he ended up having drama with her and chasing her all over town (literally running) and this was a dude who was cleaning up on tinder. Also i have to add hs gf started to DM me this week and i ended up having to ignore her because i had a feeling where she was trying to take it and im not going to do thst to a friend. (So his days are numbered in that one)

In the case of the women, they are pretty much the same as they ever were, but the guys have slipped BADLY. Its this sort of thing that terrifies me about getting in an ltr. Both these guys were FAR better off when they were single .

I kind of get it with the one whos with the 18 yo because shes hot (although hes gonna get wrecked because hes dropped below her smv now) but the single mother isnt even good looking (although shes dragged my friend down from a 7/10 to a 5/10 himself now)

There's a lot of reasons people let themselves go. It could be getting too comfortable, but it could also be stress and depression.

 

[Calum Tingham]

I don't think a long relationship = a healthy relationship.

I've had very satisfying healthy relationships which lasted for one month.

And I've had an extremely painful unhealthy relationship which lasted for six months.

- I agree that if I did want to commit to a relationship, I'd seek advice from someone who has been married for over 10 years and not someone who sleeps around with many women.

I think it depends on your age, your past experience, your personal goals, your traveling goals, your work goals—what you want from the next period of your life. If you want different things than your partner, you'll have to end that relationship.

And it's healthy when you can understand that, and happily let each other travel their own journeys.

It's totally about your own individual preferences and your current methodology of life.

 

[ubercat]

"Men in committed relationships have lower testosterone".

Interesting article. I m not surprised. A win has been shown to boost T Single guys would compete more in biz, dating and sports. And fat produces estrogen so if u workout less guess wot.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0018506X03001259

 

[Reykhel]

The concept of a LTR is not in itself the "problem" or necessarily the "cause" of the decline as many would like
to believe.

What I see here is that there are certain posters who have never had the experience of a LTR and will pontificate to all
and sundry that the LTR is the "woman's frame". Which is short sighted to say the least. Then there are those who have had
really bad experiences and instead of engaging in self-reflection and health analysis they will look at the aforementioned posters pontificating on their soapboxes and buy into their sermons concluding "yes, it's the fault of the LTR. It can't be me."

There's a quote from Sam Kean that I'm reminded of when certain posters rail on about frame:
"There are two questions a man must ask himself: the first is 'where am I going?' and the second one is 'who will go with me?' If you ever get
these questions in the reverse order, you are in trouble." Sam Kean, Fire in the Belly: On Being on a Man

In the case of @Infern0 's friend..........is it the LTR's fault that the man has gone into decline? Is it the LTR's fault that the man
has stopped going to the gym? Is it the LTR's fault that the man is chasing the woman all over town? No. It's his fvcking fault.

You fit women around your life, you don't fit your life around women.

Those that fit there life around women are left like broken shells stranded on a desert island when she decides to sail into
the sunset. For she will if you lose a sense of who you are. Broken with no sense of who you are any more. Damn LTR's really are the frame of the woman. Nah you just gave your ****e up man.

What constitutes if it will be "healthy or not.
Two codependent people entering into a relationship together will not make a healthy dynamic. It may last, it may even appear "successful" to
the outside world, but it will not be healthy. Two people who depend on each other for their emotional needs......eventually one will probably take advantage of the other. This is what happens with unhealthy or undefined boundaries.

One codependent person entering a relationship with and independent person will probably not make a healthy dynamic. The codependent person will probably suck the life out of the independent person and drag them down, or one of them will start taking advantage of the other.

Two independent people.........independent in the sense of they rely on their selves for their emotional needs, would be a healthy dynamic. However, they will need to have the ability to be interdependent if the dynamic is to truly work. A lot of people, possibly from bad experiences go from being codependent. i.e. former nice guys/doormats with no fvkcing boundaries (yes men, don't know how to say no), to the opposite extreme.........bad experiences make them throw the boundary wall so fvcking high that nobody stands a chance of getting in (fearful boundaries ). These are immature boundaries and those that state dogmatically "LTR's are the woman's frame" usually have immature fearful boundaries.....

Remember: The man is an island, the woman is the waves crashing up against you. You cannot fold, you cannot crumble. You cannot ever lose a sense of who you are. If an island crumbles because of the weight of the waves it crumbles and sinks to the bottom of the sea....

 

[Reykhel]

"Men in committed relationships have lower testosterone".

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0018506X03001259

"Men over 30 who live with their parents......"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jun/03/barbara-ellen-kick-out-stay-at-home-kids
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/3t4gn7/age_25_guys_still_living_with_parents_how_are/

 

[mikey2012]

Coz they are betas

 

[Urbanyst]

Wait, so you're like a blind person asking what the color red is?

The longer you stay with the same woman, the more you bond with her. The more oxytocin (cuddle chemical) she forms. The more unforgettable you become to her. The more orgasms she has had with you. The more sex you have had with her. The more you can trust her. The more often she will text you. The more excited she will be to see you. Even if you have love at first sight, after 6 months you will love each other more (WAY more according to her the other night). The sex gets much better. Just holding her feels better than sex. Just being inside her feels better than an orgasm used to. Sex feels like one continuous orgasm for hours. You can go three straight times even in your 40's. You both learn to fulfill the image that turns the other on most. You can sense when she is in the room. You know exactly how to satisfy her so you kind of own her. She has a strong emotional connection with you so if she strays and has a one night stand, it will make her regret it and she will miss you. She will then avoid straying on you as long as you are true to her. You can talk about her having your children someday and what they would look like. She will tell you she never felt closer to any man in her life and that you can trust her to be loyal to you. You can relax with her alone in your place with all your stuff. You know she will be there if you ever need to rely on her. You won't find this with more than a few girls in your life. I've lived in 25 cities and I've only found a handful of girls like this.

I prefer that to random one night stands myself, but you might not.

Is any of this a fact?

If so, please show me proof (scientific research sources). I'm open to being wrong, but I'm not just going to take your word as fact.

 

[devilkingx2]

Is any of this a fact?

If so, please show me proof (scientific research sources). I'm open to being wrong, but I'm not just going to take your word as fact.

literally everything you enjoy releases pleasure chemicals in your brain tbh

 

[Urbanyst]

literally everything you enjoy releases pleasure chemicals in your brain tbh

That would mean once I stop enjoying a woman in a LTR the pleasure ends and the relationship is no longer healthy (for me). So even if that relationship lasted another two years, it would not necessarily be healthy. Yet, according to @bigneil that would make me more qualified to talk about healthy relationships.

@bigneil doesn't understand that a relationship is a decision and not an accomplishment. He doesn't understand because he is always very one dimensional in this thinking and acts like everything is black and white.

 

[SteR]

"Men in committed relationships have lower testosterone".

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0018506X03001259

The question is whether it's caused because of some issue with pair-bonding chemicals, or whether it's because the guy just gets comfortable/lazy and stops working out as much because he's got sex on tap..

 

[usernamedox11]

You guys gotta stop looking at relationships as some competitive mind game. If you are dating a girl who puts you in that frame of mind, move on.

 

[Urbanyst]

You guys gotta stop looking at relationships as some competitive mind game. If you are dating a girl who puts you in that frame of mind, move on.

That's what I'm trying to say. This is what I've always done.

Being in a relationship is a decision two people make. It is not some kind of accomplishment that deserves bragging rights.

Guy's with low self-esteem like @bigneil think all their value comes from a woman staying in a relationship with them.

Not having a LTR last longer than a year for me was my decision as much as the women I dated. I knew what to do to make things last longer but I just refused.

 

[bigneil]

Sure. Guys who are dating their HB9 21 year old dream girl (25 year their junior, who wants to run away together, who they saw last night, who they have a date with tonight) have low self esteem.

And guys who can't get a girl to stick around like @Urbanyst are always correct. Urbanyst chose dating futility over sexual bliss, reproduction and cosmic fulfillment. Give him credit.

 

[devilkingx2]

That's what I'm trying to say. This is what I've always done.

Being in a relationship is a decision two people make. It is not some kind of accomplishment that deserves bragging rights.

Guy's with low self-esteem like @bigneil think all their value comes from a woman staying in a relationship with them.

Not having a LTR last longer than a year for me was my decision as much as the women I dated. I knew what to do to make things last longer but I just refused.

I think his point is that most relationships don't end for no reason so in theory a series of short relationships means that all your relationships can only last for a few months before they fall apart, and the only common variable is you

sort of like how an employer would see someone who has a lot of jobs on their resume that they only worked for a few months as a red flag

of course, where bigneil's theory falls apart is assuming that all of your relationships were meant to be serious LTRs

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Not always because the guy gets complacent. I know loads of situatiations where the chick gets complacent and gets fat too when the man continues to take care of himself. This characteristic isn't specific to just men, it can happen to women as well.

No, what I believe is that it is because women nag or complain in subtle ways. They take just a little bit at a time, just a small bit of you each time that changes you in the slightest way. But over time though, these changes add up until you are eventually a whole new person. Why do women do this? Because they don't want to compete for you against other women, so they sabotage a lot of your good qualities so that other women don't find you as attractive. This way, they keep you all for themselves. They don't realize that these very same qualities that they are destroying in you is what got them attracted to you in the first place though. All women naturally do this to men though. You guys call it a power struggle, but it's really just her establishing security with you because they don't want to lose you. But now that it's the 21st century, women don't need men to survive anymore like they used to so when they gain security with you, they are no longer attracted to you as a side effect of which causes them to leave you. Then the man is left broken and just a shell of his former self.

 

[Urbanyst]

Sure. Guys who are dating their HB9 21 year old dream girl (25 year their junior, who wants to run away together, who they saw last night, who they have a date with tonight) have low self esteem.

And guys who can't get a girl to stick around like @Urbanyst are always correct. Urbanyst chose dating futility over sexual bliss, reproduction and cosmic fulfillment. Give him credit.

Sexual bliss has nothing to do with being in a LTR. For me the sex peaks 6 months in. After that I don't get as turned on because the girl becomes so familiar. Sure, I get more comfortable, but not as turned on.

Also, all the girls I dated monogamously were under 25, which is a very unstable age group. And last but not least, I dumped some of them. So had I not dumped them, it is very possible those relationships would still be in tact today.

What you keep doing is making it look like I had no choice or say in my relationships and all the women just rejected me after 1 year. That is not the case and I told you this already, But like I said before, you seem to have a mental block where new information confuses you.

I think his point is that most relationships don't end for no reason so in theory a series of short relationships means that all your relationships can only last for a few months before they fall apart, and the only common variable is you

sort of like how an employer would see someone who has a lot of jobs on their resume that they only worked for a few months as a red flag

But we are not women. Relationships are not supposed to be an accomplishment to us. Being able to have sex with very hot women is much more important because it ensures you can spread you seed with good genetics. I can do that having slept with over 60 women.

The fact that my LTR's don't last longer than a year is not something to judge me on. There a guys who have 10 year LTR's and only slept with one fat ugly woman there entire life. According to @bigneil that man would be higher value that me because his relationship with some fat whale lasted 10 years. That is how one dimensional his thinking is.

 

[devilkingx2]

The fact that my LTR's don't last longer than a year is not something to judge me on. There a guys who have 10 year LTR's and only slept with one fat ugly woman there entire life. According to @bigneil that man would be higher value that me because his relationship with some fat whale lasted 10 years. That is how one dimensional his thinking is.

it might be reflective of your personality

in a theoretical universe where you need a decent personality to keep a woman.

how long do your friendships last? that's the real indicator

 

[Urbanyst]

it might be reflective of your personality

in a theoretical universe where you need a decent personality to keep a woman.

how long do your friendships last? that's the real indicator

My friendships last very long.