Why are there so many dudes in the PUA/Game community that don't have their sh*t together?

[BPH]

I get that, but what I'm referring to is the case @Solomon mentioned of the guy literally going out to bars, clubs, etc. and spam approaching like a madman. Most guy really don't have the time or energy for something like this, nor would they even want to lol.

Yeah, don't do that...

I'm all for cold approaching, but if you just go to every girl at the bar and shoot your shot the other girls are going to see that and not want to be the "backup" if you fail.

Like you have to actually try too. You're not just trying to hit a rep quota.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Bro wtf sre you even saying? I'm an engineer why wouldn't I date McDonald's worker when I have everything? Get down from your high horse $hit.

Also, read this clearly, the only men that women "would never see him as equal or superior" are men who care if a woman makes more than him, or even cries about it with her those men feel inferior in which reinforces her beliefs of him.

If you are willing to date down the social economic ladder than you are going to have to take in the responsibility of raising her to your level not. Of course, it is mutual for both parties, but these end up failing because of the man saw some easy pvssy and the woman saw a thick wallet.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

Here is my take on this.

I think losers, low lifes or whatever you want to call them typically have fairly low standards for themselves and naturally aren't all that selective with their mate choices, friend choices, etc. We could debate all day as to why this is, but they just don't put as much emphasis on finding decent or suitable partners. I'm not referring specifically to looks, this includes personal character traits, behavior, etc. There are a lot of people that fall within this category, so naturally it wouldn't be difficult for such people to find one another.

In contrast, people that hold themselves to higher standards or seeking more out of life tend to be more selective with their mate choices, hell even just social circle/friend choices. It's a reason you'll find that a lot of men that are highly invested in their life pursuit tend to have a social life that is not so great, if they even have one at all. It naturally becomes MORE difficult for these individuals to find suitable matches for themselves. This is a totally different existence from the former example I provided above and will have very different life outcomes.

Easily one of the best posts I have read on the forum this entire year. I actually hang out with PUAs who fit the mold of not having their stuff together but still getting laid. Once we peel back the layers though, the story becomes a lot less impressive. I am talking banging fat girls, ugly girls, and gutter trash you see on Fresh & Fit.

When I am out with these guys, they approach women that I would not want to even be seen near. A lot of them are approaching girls I find to be hideous as well as a lot of the guys I know.

By contrast, I have a wing who is somewhat into PUA but a tall handsome white dude with a nice job. The guy has over 100 likes on Hinge and does not respond to them because the girls are ugly. I saw the girls and they are like 6 on average. Your typical game or PUA bro celebrating cold approach would easily spam approach these girls at a bar.

It is so important for us to peel back the layers on the guys getting laid while not having a job or their lives together.

 

[CornbreadFed]

That's your projection, I don't lead with my wallet.

So, this young pretty McDonalds worker is going to shut down every guy within her age for a 34-year-old engineer making six figures not for his money at all? This is delusional lol.

 

[characternote]

I feel personally attacked



I'm not advocating for my situation, but maybe I can explain...

When I go out and I meet women I am NOT the guy that lives at home with his parents, the guy that doesn't make a lot of money, or the guy who lives in suburban Delaware where fun goes to die.

What I AM is the good-looking guy who has the confidence to make the first move, can handle my liquor and doesn't need to be sloshed to talk to them, and offers them a fun night in bed with no obligation beyond that.

I am not lying to these women about my situation, and I have not lied to make myself out to be better than I actually am (notably how everybody was telling me to lie and say I was younger while out at college bars). But I'm also not volunteering that information about my situation unless explicitly asked...I'm not going up to these girls and asking if they want to come back with me to my mom's house...

This. One of my hottest periods of getting laid (and with the prettiest, youngest girls) was actually when I was at my most loserish. But as you say, it's not as though you 'act' like a loser and/or volunteer the info to girls. I was going out a tonne, hitting on lots of girls per night, and often taking one back to my parents (or her parents)

In fact, I took it a few steps further than you did and I DID lie to the girls. I lied my freaking ass off! (only if I felt I needed too as I did with 'SOME' girls, but mostly, it wasn't even necessary since they just didn't tend to care if i was broke or lived with my parents! It all goes out of the window if they think you are good looking/they are attracted to you!

So, would you say it was simply because he wasn't really phased by rejections and would just move on to the next like nothing happened? It doesn't sound so much like he had some special secret, it's just that he put a lot of time and effort towards putting himself into situations where he could interact with a lot of women, which allowed him to play a numbers game.

This is all there is. There's no secret sauce.

Yes he played the numbers game, and would plow, plow plow, it takes a lot of energy to do that shyt. If you ever approached 10+ girls in a night you know that shyt gets tiring real quick. As I said he was "The Best PUA" I ever saw not the best gamer. At 5'4 he got rejected a lot but as I mentioned half the nights we would go out, he would be like "Hey Solo I don't need a ride back, I'm going to XXX place"

I've always said it's a numbers game. This is not a game of 'skill'. It's a game of getting as good looking and attractive as you can and then shooting your shot and playing the numbers game to find them attracted girls. She basically makes her mind up within a second (as we can see from thousands of infields from pro's). e.g One can't negotiate sexual attraction and go from 'hell no' to 'hell yes bang me now' with 'game' or PUA nonsense. It's just tinder in person. Swipe right = shoot your shot

 

[characternote]

but IT IS a numbers game

that's what I said. It IS a numbers game

 

[BPH]

So, this young pretty McDonalds worker is going to shut down every guy within her age for a 34-year-old engineer making six figures not for his money at all? This is delusional lol.

That's exactly how you operate, that's why you say it, you go freely say how much you make as a form making up for something you're missing, I don't, that's why you get jacked and you let the body do the peacocking and then you captive her with your charm. @BPH plz show this kid how its done.

I mean I won't say that it's out of the question for that to be a possibility, as there ARE plenty of women who treat dating as a transaction of beauty for money... but I think it would be ignorant to assume that just because a woman shuts down men her age for an older guy that it has to be a result of money.

Also, echoing what @characternote is saying, yeah it's a number's game, but it's not JUST a number's game. Think of it like sales...an ugly, fat, short, bald man does 10,000 approaches, and Chad does 10,000 approaches. Even if they say the exact same s***, one "product" is way better than the other, completely removed from other factors like how much they make or where they live.

@sangheilios the thing that comes with practice isn't an "a-ha" moment, but a bunch of small adjustments to gradually make you better at "pitching your product". "Game" isn't like some cheat code where you magically know what to say, but you can read a situation and adapt better to it because you've been in them hundreds of times.

Let me break this down for you in a way you might understand:

I usually don't go to the bars or clubs until it's maybe 2 hours till close. Why? The girls that are there AT THAT TIME probably do not have a boyfriend to go home to, or another party or bar they're hopping to, because they're likely single and looking for the same thing you are.

If I have it my way, girls who are either by themselves or separate themselves from their friends are more likely one-night-stands. Why? Because they don't have to worry about how their friends might judge them if they like you and decide they want to kiss you, or dance with you, or go home with you.

I could go on and on but the reason why approaching over and over again builds that skill is NOT just because you have a large enough sample size that you're "guaranteed" to get a result, you get better BECAUSE you had those conversations, and know what your audience wants, and how to look for those cues, and what your next move should be to get X result.

 

[Bigpapa]

Over the past few years, I have met a number of guys that do PUA cold approach and follow a lot of PUA content out there themselves. In getting to know a number of these guys, I notice an overarching trend with about 80% of them. The vast majority of these dudes do not have their lives together, especially in a financial and career sort of way.

Like I am talking about dudes over the age of 30 that are unemployed, live with their parents, barely make any money, and do not really have much of a career path. The amount of dudes working odd jobs like busboy at a restaurant or at some fast food place yet going on PUA forums to find when they can go out to sarge. It is like I don't exactly get it. Even when I have gamed while unemployed, it was after having at least a good bit of runway as well as making supplemental income (don't you dare make a joke here @BillyPilgrim lol).

It is like once in a blue moon I might meet a guy who works a White Collar job and does game. Most of the time, this is the story.

1. Dude lives with parents way out in the suburbs

2. Drives out to the city on weekends to do daygame and nightgame sessions

3. Hopes he can sneak girls into his car

Its like are so many PUA coaches having this whole gimmick where they tell guys "I can help you get models while you are broke". It is what eventually turned me off to John Anthony Lifestyle.

A) Because they know that they s8ck at other stuff so at least they try to be successful in something that most guys are not doing great, which is banging women

B) they are hedonists / mentally f8cked up

I am 34 now and to be frank I am ashamed of myself only focusing to bang new women all the time till my late 20s

After you mature a bit more you kinda realize that most girls have only their p8ssy to offer and that p8ssy is abundant. Is enough p8ssy on this planet that any guy can literally choke with it

Guys after their mid 20s that are still obsessed with pua / banging women left and right either they are f8cked up in their head, either suffer from a Peter Pan complex ( and their life will be a mess too )

Same thing with these digital nomads, these full time travelers, people being hyperactive in general. Basically in a nutshell the FOMO people

 

[BoostedArrow]

I mean I won't say that it's out of the question for that to be a possibility, as there ARE plenty of women who treat dating as a transaction of beauty for money... but I think it would be ignorant to assume that just because a woman shuts down men her age for an older guy that it has to be a result of money.

Also, echoing what @characternote is saying, yeah it's a number's game, but it's not JUST a number's game. Think of it like sales...an ugly, fat, short, bald man does 10,000 approaches, and Chad does 10,000 approaches. Even if they say the exact same s***, one "product" is way better than the other, completely removed from other factors like how much they make or where they live.

@sangheilios the thing that comes with practice isn't an "a-ha" moment, but a bunch of small adjustments to gradually make you better at "pitching your product". "Game" isn't like some cheat code where you magically know what to say, but you can read a situation and adapt better to it because you've been in them hundreds of times.

Let me break this down for you in a way you might understand:

I usually don't go to the bars or clubs until it's maybe 2 hours till close. Why? The girls that are there AT THAT TIME probably do not have a boyfriend to go home to, or another party or bar they're hopping to, because they're likely single and looking for the same thing you are.

If I have it my way, girls who are either by themselves or separate themselves from their friends are more likely one-night-stands. Why? Because they don't have to worry about how their friends might judge them if they like you and decide they want to kiss you, or dance with you, or go home with you.

I could go on and on but the reason why approaching over and over again builds that skill is NOT just because you have a large enough sample size that you're "guaranteed" to get a result, you get better BECAUSE you had those conversations, and know what your audience wants, and how to look for those cues, and what your next move should be to get X result.

I agree with your statement completely.

I usually say it's about Quantity and Quality.
Quantity: The amount of women you talk to
Quality: Your SMV/Value, how hot you are in essence

Why do you have to improve only one? Why not both and make it easier?

 

[Solomon]

Well, personally, I started meeting more interesting women at more interesting events once I “got my sh*t together.” So I saw little reason to continue doing typical PUA stuff in PUA places. I imagine it’s the same for many others in white collar professions, especially ones with long hours and industry-specific social scenes. I work with designers a lot so on the weekends I’m at gallery openings, fashion shows etc.

Yup you get it Fashion Shows, Gallery events, Art Festivals, Private Boat parties. At some of these events the ratio is in favor of men 3:1! You meeting a different caliber of woman. Yes they are still women but meeting women at high-function events, you not meeting Stacy who is an elementary school teacher that you would meet at the divebar. You meeting Kathy who is a trust fund chick and she looks like a smokeshow. Plus has brains to boot

It's a different ballgame

 

[Bigpapa]

Why was that a bad thing?

I am not saying that it was a bad thing, I am just saying that each stuff has its own time and place

Being a broke guy that barely lives month to month that puts most of his energy in chasing p8ssy after your late 20s is stupid

80% of the energy should be put in trying to find a way to make money ( medium-long term plan ) and 20% towards socializing and women

Women on their own have no value, unless you seduce high value women financial wise and let them be your sugar mommies

The only value that women have is only if you think they have, societal brainwashing

I really doubt that 2-3 generations ago a man would not pursue his mission and instead the energy to bang some women that will look like sh1t in a couple of years

Extremely sad seeing the difference between a woman in her 20s vs in her 30s ( in the vast majority of cases )

 

[CornbreadFed]

I really doubt that 2-3 generations ago a man would not pursue his mission and instead the energy to bang some women that will look like sh1t in a couple of years

Men didn’t have the privilege of choosing to be a broke bachelor or focus on passion back then. It was either work from dawn to dusk to support a growing family or die early from a war or disease. All to be married and tied down to some girl that was locally near or referred to by the family. BUT this is so much better because there was no Bumble of Instagram!!!!!

 

[Bigpapa]

Men didn’t have the privilege of choosing to be a broke bachelor or focus on passion back then. It was either work from dawn to dusk to support a growing family or die early from a war or disease. All to be married and tied down to some girl that was locally near or referred to by the family. BUT this is so much better because there was no Bumble of Instagram!!!!!

There is a big difference between having options and having real options

Something that women for example do not understand, and that’s why they become bitter by the time they are early - mid 30s

The hordes of thirsty guys from social media / tinder make them think that they are amazing, and then their ego starts going crazy thinking and then spiral to bitterness

This has happened multiple of times since the down of man, only for society to revert back to religion

Sure there are exceptions and so on, but it is more like that than the other way around

 

[Manure Spherian]

I'm sure you're the expert here, but I found that many of these women had more like a 'Florence Nightingale' complex, similar to the male 'White Knight' complex. And while those women should maybe choose wiser, many of them get a deep satisfaction from 'repairing broken men'. Doesn't necessarily mean these are low quality women.

I’m not joking here. Considering few here are interested in marriage and child raising, I do not know why they care about quality of women other than them not being mentally ill or harmful.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Something that women for example do not understand, and that’s why they become bitter by the time they are early - mid 30s

The hordes of thirsty guys from social media / tinder make them think that they are amazing, and then their ego starts going crazy thinking and then spiral to bitterness

I think it is less about the options and more so that some women are refusing to settle for a man less than their standards which can be attributed to alpha widow syndrome, bad parenting, lack of maturity, and etc. Some women would rather die single even if it means a single mom then settle for a man that they consider lower smv than them. Back then a spouse was necessary for survival, but today you can live a single life and be fine.

 

[Manure Spherian]

It is so important for us to peel back the layers on the guys getting laid while not having a job or their lives together.

They’re getting laid and enjoying it. Is there something more to this?

 

[Bigpapa]

I think it is less about the options and more so that some women are refusing to settle for a man less than their standards which can be attributed to alpha widow syndrome, bad parenting, lack of maturity, and etc. Some women would rather die single even if it means a single mom then settle for a man that they consider lower smv than them. Back then a spouse was necessary for survival, but today you can live a single life and be fine.

For the vast majority of women to go through the alpha window syndrome that you describe, it means that it has to be a lot of so called alpha guys, which are not

Just by the magnitude of of the hole phenomen, they are just not that many so called alpha guys to happen

It is more about the perceived options and the ego that comes with it

I hear now more than ever this “ there are lines of guys willing to do X or Y for me”

Never heard that sh1t before, not even from really good looking women previously

 

[CornbreadFed]

For the vast majority of women to go through the alpha window syndrome that you describe, it means that it has to be a lot of so called alpha guys, which are not

Just by the magnitude of of the hole phenomen, they are just not that many so called alpha guys to happen

It is more about the perceived options and the ego that comes with it

I hear now more than ever this “ there are lines of guys willing to do X or Y for me”

Never heard that sh1t before, not even from really good looking women previously

First, to fully understand my post, you have to understand that I am talking about some women, not all women. Most women stay within their social circles and give you 0% chance of meeting them unless you actively network or approach women in cold settings. The women I am talking about are the actively single women that you are butting heads against at clubs/bars, OLD, and etc.

Now, it is pretty easy for an average to above average smv girl on OLD/warm approach settings to get treated like a princess from a high smv male or anomaly male and then tossed aside when he gets bored or gets caught by one of his gfs/wife. For example, my ex-girlfriend got wined, dined, coddled, and fvcked by some 6ft 5 NFL player (off of Hinge) for a year until he got bored. Now this girl has to go from riding in a 100k plus cars, getting bought luxury gifts every month, eating out at the most expensive restaurants, having the prestige of dating an NFL player to dating a guy that is near or below her smv. Let alone, she was an 8 so not a bombshell or anything special. She is never going to be able to fully adjust to reality, so she is just going to either continue butting heads with these types of men or throw in the towel and be single. This scenario is a woman's nightmare and Tyler Perry literally writes movies about this situation.

Now back to my point: Why is it impossible to think that women won't settle for less when I see men do it too? This is not a sexual exclusive issue; we just live in a time period that we do not have to be stuck in some insufferable relationship to survive. I would not expect you to stay with a girl below your standards for no reason at all, so why should you expect them?

 

[characternote]

They’re getting laid and enjoying it. Is there something more to this?

This. I think people over-complicate it lol. Not everyone really 'wants' to be some mega rich successful guy, really. Or at least it's just not as important to them as it may be to others and they have different priorities. Hell, some people literally give up extremely well paid jobs and having 'their lives together' and decide that they just want to live completely stress free life out in the sticks somewhere instead, giving up their income and luxuries. I'm never gonna be 'rich and successful' and I can honestly say, it's never really bothered me and I spent more time (and still do!) on enjoying myself than on trying to become a big success story in life. I'm kinda happy as I am

 

[Manure Spherian]

This. I think people over-complicate it lol. Not everyone really 'wants' to be some mega rich successful guy, really. Or at least it's just not as important to them as it may me to others and they have different priorities. Hell, some people literally give up extremely well paid jobs and having 'their lives together' and decide that they just want to live completely stress free life out in the sticks somewhere instead, giving up their income and luxuries. I'm never gonna be 'rich and successful' and I can honestly say, it's never really bothered me and I spent more time (and still do!) on enjoying myself than on trying to become a big success story in life. I'm kinda happy as I am

Right. I also don’t know why some men are concerned about the degree attractiveness of the women other men have sex with.

“Yo bro, I’m amazing sex with this woman.”

“Yeah, but like, is she hot?””