Why are there so many dudes in the PUA/Game community that don't have their sh*t together?

[Solomon]

There is a big difference between having options and having real options

Something that women for example do not understand, and that’s why they become bitter by the time they are early - mid 30s

The hordes of thirsty guys from social media / tinder make them think that they are amazing, and then their ego starts going crazy thinking and then spiral to bitterness

This has happened multiple of times since the down of man, only for society to revert back to religion

Sure there are exceptions and so on, but it is more like that than the other way around

Bro you bring up an excellent point, I remember years ago I was talking to a woman on a dating app who just turned 30 (forgot which one may have been POF I don't even remember her name cause we never met) but she brought up something interesting. She mentioned that when she would go out with her girlfriends they would get hit on by guys all the time and she never would. However, in online dating, she had 100's of guys hitting her up. I didn't wanna state the obvious but I think she was realizing that she was the weakest link etc, and that she wasn't really all that even though her girlfriends were.

Online dating/Social Media gives women the illusion of choice but if it doesn't match up with your real world experiences or the only choices you have online is guys who wanna smash and not wife you up Then welp you get the point. A lot of women don't realize this or by the time they do, they are to jaded or bitter to course correct

 

[Bigpapa]

Online dating/Social Media gives women the illusion of choice but if it doesn't match up with your real world experiences or the only choices you have online is guys who wanna smash and not wife you up Then welp you get the point. A lot of women don't realize this or by the time they do, they are to jaded or bitter to course correct

I would go even more deeper

If a guy hits on a girl it does not really mean that he actually likes her more than banging her 1-2 times

So even if the girl gets hit a lot in the real world, it does not mean that those guys are real options besides a casual bang

 

[Skotuspumpminor]

>They were following you to the underground, sean watson.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Online dating/Social Media gives women the illusion of choice but if it doesn't match up with your real world experiences or the only choices you have online is guys who wanna smash and not wife you up Then welp you get the point. A lot of women don't realize this or by the time they do, they are to jaded or bitter to course correct

I just cannot agree with this idea because the human brain cannot fully engage with more than 2 people. Girls have the illusion of choice and tons of guys hitting on them even outside OLD/Social Media regardless of rather she is a solid 10 or 4. If this idea held any water then no guy would be able to get a girl’s emotional investment.

Yet, there’s plenty of guys that do it including myself. In my experience, I have dealt with some women that had a bad case of “What If” syndrome, but this was extremely uncommon. More than likely, a girl has 1 guy at the top of her roster with 1 backup guy for hookups only. No girl is truly single because you are competing for that number 1 spot because either that guy is under performing at his job or he quit and left for another girl. If you find yourself competing against a girl's options, then you were not high on her attraction list in the first place. Essentially, I am calling this a cope or pity excuse lol.

 

[Solomon]

I just cannot agree with this idea because the human brain cannot fully engage with more than 2 people. Girls have the illusion of choice and tons of guys hitting on them even outside OLD/Social Media regardless of rather she is a solid 10 or 4. If this idea held any water then no guy would be able to get a girl’s emotional investment.

Yet, there’s plenty of guys that do it including myself. In my experience, I have dealt with some women that had a bad case of “What If” syndrome, but this was extremely uncommon. More than likely, a girl has 1 guy at the top of her roster with 1 backup guy for hookups only. No girl is truly single because you are competing for that number 1 spot because either that guy is under performing at his job or he quit and left for another girl. If you find yourself competing against a girl's options, then you were not high on her attraction list in the first place. Essentially, I am calling this a cope or pity excuse lol.

Clearly, you haven't dealt with a real smoke show or a girl who is a model(I'm not talking that IG crap, I'm talking about bonafide Fashion Week NYC). Those women have options you wouldn't believe from guys paying her bills to one being used for sex, another guy taking her shopping etc. If men can spin plates you don't think women can? women are even better at spinning plates and far more cunning than any man. You got women now who are writing books and making YouTube videos on how to have multiple men pay your bills etc

Is every girl like this? nope, I would say this is a minority but this does happen. I remember one girl I was messing with years ago confessed to me she was messing with 7 dudes at once, nedless to say I dropped her and got tested.

This notion in 2024 that women are looking for love is foolhardy, there is a reason this "Sprinkle SPrinkle" content has blown up on social media, there is a reason why "City GIrls" is so popular. Women in 2024 are playing the game for keeps and not for love!

 

[CornbreadFed]

Clearly, you haven't dealt with a real smoke show or a girl who is a model(I'm not talking that IG crap, I'm talking about bonafide Fashion Week NYC). Those women have options you wouldn't believe from guys paying her bills to one being used for sex, another guy taking her shopping etc. If men can spin plates you don't think women can? women are even better at spinning plates and far more cunning than any man. You got women now who are writing books and making YouTube videos on how to have multiple men pay your bills etc

I do not disagree that these girls exist, but I do think this issue is over-exaggerated. 9 times out of 10, she just did not find you attractive enough and you pointed the blame to her orbiters. I will bet you that these girls have that one guy in their heart that they would literally drop everything for in an instant, but this guy turned her down and tossed her aside. This goes back to alpha widow syndrome and refusing to settle for less more so than an abudnance of options.

 

[Solomon]

I do not disagree that these girls exist, but I do think this issue is over-exaggerated. 9 times out of 10, she just did not find you attractive enough and you pointed the blame to her orbiters. I will bet you that these girls have that one guy in their heart that they would literally drop everything for in an instant, but this guy turned her down and tossed her aside. This goes back to alpha widow syndrome and refusing to settle for less more so than an abudnance of options.

Two things can be right, but I'm not talking about Oribiters women spin plates as well, women can be attracted to and have sex with multiple men, usually, these women are past the pair-bond phase and are sleeping with multiple men for various reasons unlike men who usually tend to sleep with multiple women for sex

 

[SW15]

Most women stay within their social circles and give you 0% chance of meeting them unless you actively network or approach women in cold settings.

A lot of women aren't receptive to being approached by strangers. They might be in a relationship at the moment of approach and not open to new penis (common), available but not attracted to the approacher, or completely overwhelmed by their existing number of choices if available.

it is pretty easy for an average to above average smv girl on OLD/warm approach settings to get treated like a princess from a high smv male or anomaly male and then tossed aside when he gets bored or gets caught by one of his gfs/wife. For example, my ex-girlfriend got wined, dined, coddled, and fvcked by some 6ft 5 NFL player (off of Hinge) for a year until he got bored. Now this girl has to go from riding in a 100k plus cars, getting bought luxury gifts every month, eating out at the most expensive restaurants, having the prestige of dating an NFL player to dating a guy that is near or below her smv.

That happens. That would be a tough adjustment for a woman.

she was an 8 so not a bombshell or anything special.

A woman who is an '8' is strongly above average. She's attractive for sure.

She is never going to be able to fully adjust to reality, so she is just going to either continue butting heads with these types of men or throw in the towel and be single.

This is a famous video of a woman in her 30s in the 6-7 range for most men trying to adjust to dating men in the 6-7 range after dating mainly 8.5+ range men.

The adjustment is difficult.

I remember years ago I was talking to a woman on a dating app who just turned 30 (forgot which one may have been POF I don't even remember her name cause we never met) but she brought up something interesting. She mentioned that when she would go out with her girlfriends they would get hit on by guys all the time and she never would. However, in online dating, she had 100's of guys hitting her up. I didn't wanna state the obvious but I think she was realizing that she was the weakest link etc, and that she wasn't really all that even though her girlfriends were.

Online dating/Social Media gives women the illusion of choice but if it doesn't match up with your real world experiences or the only choices you have online is guys who wanna smash and not wife you up Then welp you get the point. A lot of women don't realize this or by the time they do, they are to jaded or bitter to course correct

I have seen examples in real life of very average looking women barely getting approached in the real world but having hundreds of men express interest in them on dating apps/social media. It's jarring. The average looking women I've seen experience this tend to put up high notch counts. They are pump n dump candidates.

 

[SW15]

It is better to be a guy who doesn't have his shiit together and getting laid than the opposite. The opposite is a guy who seems to be a solid citizen but is struggling with women. There are plenty of men who earn a good living (something like $75,000 - $130,000/year) and barely get any attention from women.

Women Don't Want a Semi-Successful Man

Men in this category, $75k-$125k salary, relatively in shape, drive a good car, has a few hobbies, women do not want. Why? Because this man has standards. Women do not want to work for their men. Women of today want a simp or a millionaire. Simple as that. This is what society aka social media...

www.sosuave.net

 

[Millard Fillmore]

It is better to be a guy who doesn't have his shiit together and getting laid than the opposite. The opposite is a guy who seems to be a solid citizen but is struggling with women. There are plenty of men who earn a good living (something like $75,000 - $130,000/year) and barely get any attention from women.

Women Don't Want a Semi-Successful Man

Men in this category, $75k-$125k salary, relatively in shape, drive a good car, has a few hobbies, women do not want. Why? Because this man has standards. Women do not want to work for their men. Women of today want a simp or a millionaire. Simple as that. This is what society aka social media...

www.sosuave.net

That's why I think it's silly advice to tell guys not to pursue women until they get their sh*t (career, education, health etc.) together. It's like saying don't go to the gym until you're jacked. A guy can focus on more than one thing. Obviously there are times when women go on the back burner but a guy should be improving in multiple facets.

 

[SW15]

That's why I think it's silly advice to tell guys not to pursue women until they get their sh*t (career, education, health etc.) together. It's like saying don't go to the gym until you're jacked. A guy can focus on more than one thing. Obviously there are times when women go on the back burner but a guy should be improving in multiple facets.

I think it is better for a guy to have more facets of his life organized than not organized.

Looks are generally #1. @BPH is one of the top seducers on this board based on being 6'0", 200 lbs, muscle definition but lower body fat, and good facial aesthetics. @BPH is about to turn 30 and lives at home in a mid-sized mating market in the shadow of a much bigger market. With all of that, he has put up a notch count of 90+.

There are plenty of guys who earn solid incomes who are generally ignored by women. These aren't necessarily STEM nerds either. Plenty of men in non-technical business careers are virtually invisible to women despite making a middle class level income. These are men who are able to afford at least an adequate one bedroom apartment in a larger city.

 

[Manure Spherian]

That's why I think it's silly advice to tell guys not to pursue women until they get their sh*t (career, education, health etc.) together.

This reminds me of every other jack@ssy red-pill guru.

“I got another caller on the line. Hey buddy, what’s up?”

“I’m hurting bro; I got no chicas.”

“How much dough are you bringing in?”

“60k.”

“Alright, solve that. Open up a business. Become a gorillionaire.”

“Thanks.”

I wonder if the men I grew up with who were screwing around in their teenage years had to monetarily prove themselves to get action. my guess is most men lost their virginity without having one red cent to their name. I didn’t. And when I was single, the most memorable four-month fling I had, what I call “porn come to life,” occurred after I was laid off from my job at a hospital that closed. This woman earned far more than I did.

I actually think this red-pill call for all men to become entrepreneurs and “self-made” is stupid and maladaptive.

 

[Skotuspumpminor]

>The problem is chix these days don't have high testosterone

 

[CornbreadFed]

There are plenty of guys who earn solid incomes who are generally ignored by women. These aren't necessarily STEM nerds either. Plenty of men in non-technical business careers are virtually invisible to women despite making a middle class level income. These are men who are able to afford at least an adequate one bedroom apartment in a larger city.

It’s not impossible because I could easily get a 100 plus notch count right now if I wanted to even with a decent paying job. However, this is not within in my best interest and I would rather put my energy and money in to other things. @BPH just has other priorities.

 

[Isildur1]

They’re getting laid and enjoying it. Is there something more to this?

I know a lot of guys who are earning well but don't have any options whatsoever - I think it depends on person to person- before I got into pua the women I dated were very egotistical and in general not my type personality wise - it's only when I increased my options I began to find really decent feminine women who weren't ****ed in the head

pua can be invaluable and can really free men from societal ruts- some men need it a lot more than others though and that varies case by case. Loneliness can diminish confidence - it certainly did in my teen years for me personally.

 

[Isildur1]

I think it is better for a guy to have more facets of his life organized than not organized.

Looks are generally #1. @BPH is one of the top seducers on this board based on being 6'0", 200 lbs, muscle definition but lower body fat, and good facial aesthetics. @BPH is about to turn 30 and lives at home in a mid-sized mating market in the shadow of a much bigger market. With all of that, he has put up a notch count of 90+.

There are plenty of guys who earn solid incomes who are generally ignored by women. These aren't necessarily STEM nerds either. Plenty of men in non-technical business careers are virtually invisible to women despite making a middle class level income. These are men who are able to afford at least an adequate one bedroom apartment in a larger city.

depends on also where the guys live- I've seen average borderline ugly western men slay it in Korea and China
I've seen attractive high earning men struggle hard in London - where the competition is just steep , no options and fighting for scraps off tinder . Geography makes a huge difference imo hence why so many pick up artists spend a good period of their life in Eastern Europe / Asia

 

[Isildur1]

A) Because they know that they s8ck at other stuff so at least they try to be successful in something that most guys are not doing great, which is banging women

B) they are hedonists / mentally f8cked up

I am 34 now and to be frank I am ashamed of myself only focusing to bang new women all the time till my late 20s

After you mature a bit more you kinda realize that most girls have only their p8ssy to offer and that p8ssy is abundant. Is enough p8ssy on this planet that any guy can literally choke with it

Guys after their mid 20s that are still obsessed with pua / banging women left and right either they are f8cked up in their head, either suffer from a Peter Pan complex ( and their life will be a mess too )

Same thing with these digital nomads, these full time travelers, people being hyperactive in general. Basically in a nutshell the FOMO people

for every guy who approaches too much there's probably 10,000 or so who don't approach enough or who wish they have more options . its ying and yang - the majority of men In most social circles I know don't have options because they don't approach enough its that simple- they either wait for scraps off tinder or an office romance .

 

[Fruitbat]

I think the community over rates “game” and under rates career, status and physique.

You can have zero “game” but have a solid career and look good and you’ll do immeasurably better than someone you describe.

Do we really think a doctor would lose out to a delivery drivers because the driver negged the girl? LOL

 

[Isildur1]

I think the community over rates “game” and under rates career, status and physique.

You can have zero “game” but have a solid career and look good and you’ll do immeasurably better than someone you describe.

Do we really think a doctor would lose out to a delivery drivers because the driver negged the girl? LOL

I know plenty of med students and doctors who get next to nothing - if you work long hours then what time scale do you have to approach?

Also can they create options for themselves? if you have a run of the mill guy who commits to approaching consistently he will outperform most doctors in the Western nations. Game is about increasing options ultimately and the best way to do so for me personally was approaching during the day - before daygame in my mid twenties I had had only 7 dates with women - after doing approaching on and off for 3 years in various countries I'd upped that to roughly 80 - for me that was a massive increase and I learnt a lot about during that time- game and consistency is definitely underrated often at times by a lot of men who just want to protect their egos or procrastinate .

The times when I got the best results with women was when I was immersed and just being consistent- between 18 and 25 I wanted to do cold approach so badly but my ego got in the way of things - after I broke that barrier and got some dates and lays from daygame It changed my life massively and I no longer had scarcity in my life.

 

[Isildur1]

This reminds me of every other jack@ssy red-pill guru.

“I got another caller on the line. Hey buddy, what’s up?”

“I’m hurting bro; I got no chicas.”

“How much dough are you bringing in?”

“60k.”

“Alright, solve that. Open up a business. Become a gorillionaire.”

“Thanks.”

I wonder if the men I grew up with who were screwing around in their teenage years had to monetarily prove themselves to get action. my guess is most men lost their virginity without having one red cent to their name. I didn’t. And when I was single, the most memorable four-month fling I had, what I call “porn come to life,” occurred after I was laid off from my job at a hospital that closed. This woman earned far more than I did.

I actually think this red-pill call for all men to become entrepreneurs and “self-made” is stupid and maladaptive.

think it engineers a lot of procrastination - I mean look at red pilers like Richard Cooper - he dated two single mum's and milked his sob story for 800k YouTube subscribers and people paying for his divorce courses . Arguably Richard Cooper is the most unsuccessful dating guru men have ever seen yet men flock and pay for his services why? so an alpha male can just shout a few self help quotes at them. - I don't even know if theres evidence of him grabbing a coffee date with a half decent chick . These men would be literally better off not listening to him and going out actively creating options

don't get me wrong I an't ditching self improvement - but I know a lot of men who'd be far more better off consistently approaching than they would be improving their income or business.