who in the world came up with the bright idea of Monogamy?

[backbreaker]

Nice to see somewhat of an intelligent convo going:

Let me answer some of the questions that were posted:

I guess I have a different mindset, but staying tied down to one chick for the rest of my life without "ever" being able to "look" at another woman just doesn't make much damn sense.

There is nothing wrong with me if I find too women attractive enough, in every way shape or form, to date.

Even if I was to be with one person for the rest of my life, I won't get married.. I don't believe in marrage, someone assumed I did... someone posed the question that "why don't I marry 5 different women" or something about that.

From a legal standpoint, marrage is a losing propisition. You have, at every second at for the rest of your life, to loose half of everything you have.

Secondly, marriage, in the grand scheme of things, is something that is entirely new to civilization. Marriage has been around as long as religion has been around, which, again, hasn't been all too long. Marriage is tied to religion, and I am not religious.

If a girl loves me enough, she will be with my under my terms, otherwise, I will be being with her under her terms.. Main reason why me and my last real GF aren't together.. she told me we "had" to get married and I was going to hell for not wanting to get married.. I told her she can hit the door. Any girl that makes you marry her doesn't want to marry you, she is sold on the idea of being married, not sold on the idea of being with you.

I don't have one "special girl"... all girls are special in their own way. Every week I see a girl that I say "damn, she is nice". About once a month I see a girl that has the entire package... Why should I just pick the first one who looks back at me? Why not be with all (or at least some) of them?

Actually, i am not a proponet of cheating. That's antother reason why my ex (last real one) and I aren't together. I wanted to **** more women, and I told her I wanted to **** more women, and she wasn't okay with it... actually we had a threesome with a chick we met at a bar, but I knew her enough to know she really wasn't okay with it.

Every girl I see now, as of now It's really 2 with 1 on a semi constant basis, know I am seeing other women as well. I make no bones about it, even when we first met. Some girls dont' like it.. if they don't, that's cool, I don't have anything against them, they just dont' fit my lifestyle.

I could see myself when I 'settle down' with 2 or 3 women, all living in the same house, not married to either of them. All of the girls would have to be attracted to each other and like each other enough to live under the same roof. You would never have to worry about a girl loosing interest.. it's a constant battle everyday for your attention. Sex is pretty much guaranteed every night.

And that's just simply becuase to me that's the way it should be. Not becuase you have to have multiple women to be a man, but becuase that's the reason why women get pregnant and men dont', men aren't necessarly made to be monomogus.

 

[SELF-MASTERY]

Consent:

I was going to ignore your last post, but I hate being misrepresented. You have created a –STRAWMAN- to easily blow away in the wind. I am not any of the things that you claim I am. Without even knowing me any idiot on this forum could search my post history and tell that I am not the racist religious zealot that you –WANT- me to be. Why not use the same search feature that you used to quote that old thread and get a better understanding of who you are dealing with….

You asked earlier if I would say those kinds of comments to a Chinese person or an African……. Probably not, but I do talk negatively about African-American culture daily (my own people.)

Here’s my original post:

You probably come from a broken family and do not understand the joys of unconditional (almost) love. If you want children marriage is the safest, smartest, and most productive manner to raise a child.
Marriage and morality prevents most of the woes that our society faces, and this is extremely true for minorities. John McWhorter has done a lot of writing on this.

I never attacked polygamy, but I did assert that the traditional family is the best way to raise children. I could give a shyt what people do. I doubt you’ve done much research on the implications of broken families.



My only argument is that children statistically do better in 2 parent households with quality parents. Sure there are single family households that work perfectly, but I’m talking about what is IDEAL.



It appears that you wanted a fight from the get go, and your real problem isn’t with me, but instead it is with the fake fallacious Christian STRAWMAN that you have created in order to have a silly fight with.

This is my last post on this topic.
:moon:

 

[American_Psycho]

I just checked the World Tourism Organization that said China is the fastest growing tourist spot in the world, currently in 4th place. America is 3rd, but it is about to be over-taken due to slow pace.

Ever heard the phrase "It's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there"? Honestly, do you have any idea what the average standard of living is in China? It's ok, just admit that you don't.

According to the UN Human Development Index, a comparitive measure of " poverty, literacy, education, life expectancy, childbirth, and other factors," the U.S. is ranked 10th. The top five countries are Norway, Iceland, Australia, Luxembourg, and Canada - to my knowledge, none of which have allowed polygamy in the recent past. I was unable to find China's ranking, but they are not in the top 30 (source)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Human_Development_Index.

.....I was using slavery as an example of how stupid your analogy was. But since you didn't get it, I'll spell it out for you: you implied that polygamy caused overpopulation and overpolution. How exactly does polygamy cause more babies? and more polution? Making things up again huh

You are really quite dense. If a man has one wife, his wife can birth a child, at maximum, once every ~10 months (not allowing for twins, triplets, etc.). If a man has two wives, the potential child output doubles. Three wives, potential output triples, and so on. Overpopulation naturally leads to overpollution as more people consume more resources (such as electricity and gas) and produce more waste (biological and material). This is not at all difficult to deduce.

 

[Consent]

Ever heard the phrase "It's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there"? Honestly, do you have any idea what the average standard of living is in China? It's ok, just admit that you don't.

LOL...you know what's funny is how I used China as an example of ONE situation that happened amongst others. If you look at the majority of China's history, it has actually been with monogomy, so if I were to follow your stupid argument, then monogomy is bad because it somehow caused their standard of living to dwindle? lol Unless you can somehow show how during that one time period of polygamy, it caused a lot of damage in comparison to all the other time periods with monogomy, then your argument has no correlation. Which ofcourse it doesn't have.

You are really quite dense. If a man has one wife, his wife can birth a child, at maximum, once every ~10 months (not allowing for twins, triplets, etc.). If a man has two wives, the potential child output doubles. Three wives, potential output triples, and so on.

omg....I honestly didn't think you could be more dense but you have proved me wrong. You see, in a soceity with monogamy, that "second wife" would be someone else's wife....that "third wife" would be someone elses wife....so there would be 3 husbands and 3 wives, all capable of having babies. If anything monogomy would create more since there's 3 guys having sex with 3 women, they would be able to have more sex than 1 guy with 3 women.

 

[Consent]

Why not use the same search feature that you used to quote that old thread and get a better understanding of who you are dealing with….

uh, I didn't use the search function to find out who you are, you bumped your own thread up so I quoted from it. If you make a racist comment, then you are racist. I don't need to know what you did last month or what you did last year. If someone walked up to you and called you a racial slur, would you say "oh gee, well if he didn't say anything racist in the past 6 months, that balances it out so it's okay."

But the thing is is that you aren't a good person anyway. I happened to read a recent post made by someone and then you replied by bragging how you hooked up with a student. Your exact words were: "Manipulation is life". lol man, not only are you a hypocrite but now you're also a liar.

I doubt you’ve done much research on the implications of broken families...Sure there are single family households that work perfectly, but I’m talking about what is IDEAL.

It's so interesting that time after time you keep avoiding the fact that you have done no research on polygamy, yet you keep telling other people they need to do research and somehow just because you believe something is true, then it is "IDEAL". Research isnt' necessary for you. Thinking about it isn't necessary either. It's just "IDEAL" and so much better than everything else because you said it was. This is exactly what I mean about an example of how a religious mind "thinks".

your real problem isn’t with me, but instead it is with the fake fallacious Christian STRAWMAN that you have created in order to have a silly fight with.

The only one fighting a strawman is you. This is what you wrote: "Marriage and morality prevents most of the woes that our society faces". So by that statement, being ethical isn't good enough, people have to get married in monogomy in order to do well in soceity. lol
The whole time, your only attack on me is that I supposedly didn't do enough "research" and when I showed you proof that Jews and Chinese had examples of polygamy, you said that we somehow cannot compare ourselves to the Chinese. I guess they are a different species for you. That would explain why you started shootin' off racist comments. But hey, don't worry, just keep repenting. haha :kick:

 

[Consent]

Marriage has been around as long as religion has been around, which, again, hasn't been all too long. Marriage is tied to religion, and I am not religious.

Exactly! For people who think that marriage is some kind of innate ideal, they just don' want to look at the actual facts. Studies done in America have shown there is a negative correlation between believing in religion and one's IQ, as well as a negative correlation between believing in religion and the amount of money earned.

 

[STR8UP]

I
I'll just quote Warren Buffet -

"If I could give up billions for one good marriage, I would have done so long ago."

Which goes to prove my point- A good woman is hard (nearly impossible) to find, and once you DO find her what gaurantee do you have that she will be the same person in ten, twenty, or more years?

ESPECIALLY......any fool who thinks it's wise to marry a woman who is between 18 and 25. People change quite a bit in their mid 20's. If you marry a woman before that age, good luck.

 

[STR8UP]

I don't think that it is wise to live life in fear of rejection or strife. Play the game and accept the consequences. Life is too short for me to worry about what if she dumps me in 3, 6, or 12 months. I just refuse to live life in fear of anything.

fk hoes; have LTR's/marry women.:rock:

I dunno......

I have two friends who are either freshly divorced, or in the process as we speak.

One is a chick that I party with. She was with her man since she was in her early 20's (she is now in her 30's). I guess she got tired of him screwing around on her, so she divorced him. Now, because of their two kids, for the next 15 years she is stuck with this guy who hacks her emails, hassles her at 2am., you name it.

The other one is a guy who was in a similar situation. If I thought ANYONE would make a marriage work, it would have been him and his wife. Now he's 30 something years old and depressed cause his wife decided that she "loves him, but isn't IN love with him"

It isn't about being afraid, it's about being realistic. If someone gave me less than 50% odds of an investment paying off, I would run away as fast as I can. Why should you treat your relationships any different?

I think it CAN work, if the woman knows and accepts her place in the relationship (none of this feminist, modern woman, sex and the city bullsh!t), and the man is smart enough to lead the relationship in the right direction (in other words, BE A MAN).

For me, it's too much work and the odds are too low for me to bother. WHatever floats your boat....

 

[Cowhead418]

Some people just don't want to get married, why is there anything wrong with that? I personally find marriage to be a terrible idea. You are tied down to one woman the rest of your life and after a while you end being her 'slave'. She decides when you get to go out and controls much of your life. Now those who will argue 'Not if you just BE A MAN' or 'take control', consider this: the law works against you. You can take control, but if your wife is unhappy with this situation, she can make your life hell.

All she has to do is utter "He hit me" and the law will come down on you hard, whether you did hit her or not. Not to mention that she could also file for divorce. 75% of all divorces are initiated by females, and is there any wonder why? In court, she will most likely take full custody of the children (90% of the time) and she can refuse to give you visitation rights. She will also take half your money, a car, and probably the house too. Even though you aren't together anymore, you will have to support her and the children for many years afterwards. Is it any wonder why the majority of marriages end in divorce? Is it any wonder why the marriage rates are as low as they have ever been?

Sure you can argue that if you treat your wife right and you find one that really loves you, then this will never happen. But people change, and who is to say that 10, 20, 30 years down the line that love is gone? As for me, I'll take the path where I have full control over my life and I don't have to worry about giving up most of my paycheck to pay for my ex-wife's accessories. The bacholer's life is for me.

 

[SELF-MASTERY]

I dunno......

I have two friends who are either freshly divorced, or in the process as we speak.

One is a chick that I party with. She was with her man since she was in her early 20's (she is now in her 30's). I guess she got tired of him screwing around on her, so she divorced him. Now, because of their two kids, for the next 15 years she is stuck with this guy who hacks her emails, hassles her at 2am., you name it.

The other one is a guy who was in a similar situation. If I thought ANYONE would make a marriage work, it would have been him and his wife. Now he's 30 something years old and depressed cause his wife decided that she "loves him, but isn't IN love with him"

It isn't about being afraid, it's about being realistic. If someone gave me less than 50% odds of an investment paying off, I would run away as fast as I can. Why should you treat your relationships any different?

I think it CAN work, if the woman knows and accepts her place in the relationship (none of this feminist, modern woman, sex and the city bullsh!t), and the man is smart enough to lead the relationship in the right direction (in other words, BE A MAN).

For me, it's too much work and the odds are too low for me to bother. WHatever floats your boat....

I totally understand your point, but......
"Do not be too timid or unsure about your actions. All life is an experiment." --Emerson

 

[Doggystyle]

Not read the whole thread....far too long for me!

But remembered a quote from mrsex4unyc that amused me:

"there is no reason for me to sign a paper that says no matter how fat this ***** gets or how little sex she puts out, I am going to stay with her until we are dead. **** that. seriously "

ha ha

not my personal view on the subject

 

[TheTrader]

I totally understand your point, but......
"Do not be too timid or unsure about your actions. All life is an experiment." --Emerson

shame over you. what an abuse of a beautiful quote. i hope you do "invest" in stocks with that kind of "tough" and "playful" mindset.

 

[SELF-MASTERY]

shame over you. what an abuse of a beautiful quote. i hope you do "invest" in stocks with that kind of "tough" and "playful" mindset.

Me no understand.

 

[STR8UP]

I totally understand your point, but......
"Do not be too timid or unsure about your actions. All life is an experiment." --Emerson

That's the thing. I am ALL ABOUT taking chances and learning as I go. The problem with applying that to becoming involved in a marriage is that it isn't usually easy to get yourself out of it should you find out that it's a losing proposition. And once you DO find out it's a losing proposition, there are often children involved (poor kids), and by that time it not only takes a huge emotional toll, but also due to the way the law is structured you will likely be wiped out financially as well. How can I justify taking that kind of chance?

You know, if 99% of the women I meet weren't the Sex and the City zombies that they are, things might be different. The sad thing is, most of them are great girls. But that whole "I'm out to get MINE" attitude isn't congruent with a healthy long term relationship. It's gonna be a constant fight. And when it comes down to the end, any of that goodness that attracted you to her in the beginning will be in the toilet. The devil horns will come out, and it isn't a pretty sight.

 

[backbreaker]

at the end of the day, I have to look out for myself. One thing I noticed is alot of guys get married because they feel they have to latch on tot he girl they are with for fear of loosing her. Other guys are tricked by women who are in love wtiht he idea of being married... not in love with them (see my post "Do I have a problem? a couple of days ago)

I mean, what's the difference in living with someone for the rest of your life, and living with someone for the rest of the life and being married? What are their certain clubs I can't get into becuase I not married? Is there a certain part of the menu at resturants I can't order from? I mean, she loves beign with you right? That's all that is supposed to matter. I mean, what's the worst that can happen? She gets her **** one day and leaves... but you still have everythnig you had before you entered the relationship?

Even with that said.. I just don't believe in marrige.. it's a religious faction and I am not religious.

 

[Cowhead418]

I mean, what's the difference in living with someone for the rest of your life, and living with someone for the rest of the life and being married? What are their certain clubs I can't get into becuase I not married? Is there a certain part of the menu at resturants I can't order from? I mean, she loves beign with you right? That's all that is supposed to matter. I mean, what's the worst that can happen? She gets her **** one day and leaves... but you still have everythnig you had before you entered the relationship?

Actually, that is incorrect. At least in marriage you can file complaints about the unfair treatment of the judicial system after the divorce. If you live together, sometimes you don't even get a word in. She can get palimony from you and still take half your **** when she leaves. That is why living with a chick or being married to one is a bad idea. The law is against you. Living a life of the bachelor is the best idea, because your dealings with women have less of a chance to come back and bite you in the ass (unless of course she falsely accuses you of rape).

 

[guess_who]

I can think of two reasons.
1) It's the most efficient way to procreate.
2) Humans are naturally jealous and possessive.

1.) yeah, FOR WOMEN! Think about it. Women are very vulnerable when pregnant. Back in the stone age, it could be a matter of life and death. They need to be sure there is a strong, loyal man to protect them. Monogamy provides this. In a Monogamous society, men are breed to be loyal and faithful little sheep who give away there power. Basically, AFCs. This allows the girl to marry her loser and go have sex with the bad boy lover with the better genes. She gets the genetically superior kids and the loser husband to take care of them. Of course, this is all decided at an unconcious level.

Let me throw some statisitcs out. Its predicted that 10% (maybe more) of us don't know the identity of our real fathers. Go down the member list at the board and count to ten, and there'a a good chance someone in there doesn't know there real daddy. One study estimated that 80% of all divorces are caused by women. Hmmm, what happened to all that love and till death do we part **** that men are programed to follow and that women supposdely follow too? Women are more likely to orgasm when cheating, and orgasms increase the rate of pregnancy. Research has shown most sperm are created not for impregnanting an egg, but killing off sperm from rival mates! And finally, survey's estimate that men cheat around 60% of the time and women about 40%. This proves that when it comes to survey's, WOMEN LIE!!!

j/k

2.)I think these feelings are evolved to make sure we had the best mating opportunity and that no guy "planted their seed in our garden" so to speak. These feelings make sure we act in a way that protects our mating strategies, such as the ones I stated above.

Not that I'm trying to bad mouth women. Men have mating strategies too. I just think this is the way things are. I also think that if you were to be sexy yet at the same time loyal, the girl wouldn't have a need to cheat. I think eventually, I want to get married. Because, face it, monogamy provides something very important: a deep emotional connection with a chick. I don't want to be one of those pua's who have sex with over a thousand women but still feels empty, still has to push himself to an even greater level with seduction, not necesarily because he needs too, but because that's all he knows. Its like backbreaker said in his thread about what your going to think about on your death bed. The rambles of nameless women you ****ed aren't going to come as any comfort. You want something lasting, something you left behind that made the workd better, a legacy. A wife you had a deep connection with, kids that you raised well, that's one way to achieve that legacy. You almost become immortal through their love and memories.

 

[STR8UP]

WHy is it so important to have a deep connection with one chick? Just sounds like more of the same stuff we have all been brainwashed with our entire lives.

I live a PERFECTLY happy life whether I am in a relationship or outside of one. There is no denying that having a good woman does add something to your life, but you also have to factor in the negative aspects. That's why I can be perfectly happy either way.

I won't ever say that I will NEVER get married. But I will say that when and if I DO decide to go that direction, it's gonna take an amazing chick that absolutely knocks my socks off, and I will STILL go into it with my eyes WIIIIIIIDE open and my pocketbook closed tight.

 

[SuSHI]

monogamy is based on parental investment.
Which ever parent invests more time in the child's development will be the most monogamous. Thats why women are the ones to choose and males the one to approach.

But we now live in a society where both parents are needed to ensure the child grows most efficiently, thats why both parents have higher parental investment. But if you think about it, even back in the cave days, the father still needed the women, cause they helped ensure the offspring were taken care of, while they got the meat, both male and female investment were needed.

SusHI

Ps: Those of you who think that monogamy makes you an afc have a lot of growing up to do, cause you still are an afc.

 

[PowertripII]

The rambles of nameless women you ****ed aren't going to come as any comfort. You want something lasting, something you left behind that made the workd better, a legacy. A wife you had a deep connection with, kids that you raised well, that's one way to achieve that legacy. You almost become immortal through their love and memories.

I may be the odd one out here, but leaving a 'legacy' consisting of my genetic material doesn't really appeal to me. I'd probably rather use the time to actually change the world instead of just diapers.