When to back off the Alpha a little with a serious GF

[sazc]

I don't give a sh*t for social pressure. More shame tactics from a woman that I'm not even fvcking. What is the point in having this sh*t on here?

People to whom I sound "utterly ridiculous" to can get lost.



Go back to doing your hair, bimbo.

Get more sense out of talking to the animals.

lol, word Barney Fife, word

 

[sazc]

Are you down to merely some sort of name calling now?

Nah, not going to bite

I'll just say this, I don't go try and tell women how to be women. Never have; never will. I don't believe myself to be that entitled.

Like I said, if you really wanted to understand men, you would shut the fvck up and listen. Perhaps do some reading.

Instead you push your frame. And many guys actually appreciate it.

Dear oh dear

lmao, mmmkayeeee Barney

 

[TheProspect]

lmao, mmmkayeeee Barney

From an unbiased, objective point-of-view, you are acting like a bit of an annoying b!tch.

I'm not saying that to insult you. I don't have a dog in the race with your two back-and-forths with @Poon King and @deesade . And I don't necessarily disagree with what you say or are trying to convey, I'm very open-minded.

However, any neutral third-party observing your conversations with the aforementioned members would agree with that your responses are either a) deflecting, b) emotionally-laden childish insults, or c) intended to aggravate with clear misdirection or evasiveness. Regardless of the intent, you're preventing others from listening to your opinions and it's preventing you yourself from learning something from someone else.

 

[Poon King]

From an unbiased, objective point-of-view, you are acting like a bit of an annoying b!tch.

I'm not saying that to insult you. I don't have a dog in the race with your two back-and-forths with @Poon King and @deesade . And I don't necessarily disagree with what you say or are trying to convey, I'm very open-minded.

However, any neutral third-party observing your conversations with the aforementioned members would agree with that your responses are either a) deflecting, b) emotionally-laden childish insults, or c) intended to aggravate with clear misdirection or evasiveness. Regardless of the intent, you're preventing others from listening to your opinions and it's preventing you yourself from learning something from someone else.

Sazc is acting like the typical woman.

You'll notice that even though she lost every argument she ultimately succeeded at her REAL goal which was ATTENTION. Women never argue to win. They argue to stimulate (and dominate) your emotions, get their way, and to put all your attention on them.

ALL women argue the exact same way. ALL of them:

• Fact avoidance
• Question avoidance
• Topic control
• Topic derail
• Shaming
• Dismissiveness
• Defiance
• Holier than thou high horse

WHY? Because it aggravates men forcing them to get emotional. When a woman can get you emotional.. she is in control. Notice I never got emotional with Sazc. The result was she just "gave up" and started arguing with other men. Proving her point was never her goal.

 

[pizzaman]

"Good women don't stick around if they feel stonewalled any more than good men do"
Almost word for word what I've said to older lamenting male buddies for numerous years.

 

[Poon King]

"Good women don't stick around if they feel stonewalled any more than good men do"
Almost word for word what I've said to older lamenting male buddies for numerous years.

WRONG.

Allow me the fix your post for you: "SMART women don't stick around if they feel stonewalled any more than SMART men do"

 

[devilkingx2]

I'm engaged to a teacher who is hot and in her 20s. She doesn't make a lot of money and I don't care. The 40 year old women who come up to me when I'm out think I give a **** that they are financially secure? It's a joke. Find a cute woman in her 20s or 30s. These old women probably ****ed a million guys since divorce

imo a woman having money is only important if she's generous with her money. if she still expects me to pay for things and isn't showering me with cool **** who cares?

 

[mrgoodstuff]

imo a woman having money is only important if she's generous with her money. if she still expects me to pay for things and isn't showering me with cool **** who cares?

If she won't spend her money and has you spending yours. That be a red flag.

 

[kenpiffyjr]

Women like this do act interested, but the interest presents itself differently. It is patient interest.

Just quoted a little bit but I wanted to reply to your entire message.

Your theory of this and how there are women who aren't needy and may follow another set of rules and codes is really proving guys like Poon King right. The misdirection that "this was how I was raised" is just a great excuse to have to really hide the fact that everything a woman does really has the foundation of manipulation up under it. All you are doing is holding on to the little bit of power you have and what allows you to feel good about the situation when you know you are going into an arena where you have to give power away to get what you want out of it which is attraction to the male.

I get interrupting work. There's definitely truth in the matter that a busy man doesn't want his girl calling him all day to talk about nonsense. But the truth is good looking women CAN be needy in my experience and men will eat it up. The rarity of that actually makes it valuable for a man who wants to massage his ego. That's what men want...a submissive woman and whether you want to write the exact gray areas of it, neediness and submissiveness go hand in hand with men and our direct logic! And women know this. All you are doing is playing chess (as sitting down and playing chess is your attempt to say the man is good enough) and giving the man one more chess piece than you have and your attraction maintains because though he knows the extra piece is there he's not using it. Because the day he uses it is the day you wont feel he's a real man.

After I read your message all I said is "ok she's just admitting that she's being manipulative to a degree.

 

[BeExcellent]

Just quoted a little bit but I wanted to reply to your entire message.

Your theory of this and how there are women who aren't needy and may follow another set of rules and codes is really proving guys like Poon King right. The misdirection that "this was how I was raised" is just a great excuse to have to really hide the fact that everything a woman does really has the foundation of manipulation up under it. All you are doing is holding on to the little bit of power you have and what allows you to feel good about the situation when you know you are going into an arena where you have to give power away to get what you want out of it which is attraction to the male.

I get interrupting work. There's definitely truth in the matter that a busy man doesn't want his girl calling him all day to talk about nonsense. But the truth is good looking women CAN be needy in my experience and men will eat it up. The rarity of that actually makes it valuable for a man who wants to massage his ego. That's what men want...a submissive woman and whether you want to write the exact gray areas of it, neediness and submissiveness go hand in hand with men and our direct logic! And women know this. All you are doing is playing chess (as sitting down and playing chess is your attempt to say the man is good enough) and giving the man one more chess piece than you have and your attraction maintains because though he knows the extra piece is there he's not using it. Because the day he uses it is the day you wont feel he's a real man.

After I read your message all I said is "ok she's just admitting that she's being manipulative to a degree.

My response is lengthy. The TLDR is that there is no need to manipulate when you have choices.

I actually agree with much of what @Poon King says from the standpoint of his desire to empower men to "man up" and stop supplicating women. Supplication is not a wise behavior because it erodes a man's role to lead the interaction. Men cannot get lazy & fail to lead. Leading gets tiresome...I get it because I have always have to lead my business dealings. I can't go expecting anybody else to run it with the eye for detail or my financial interests the way I will. In a similar fashion a man must always lead in relationships if he wishes to be successful there. That's just the way it is.

I also understand that really good women are rare in the marketplace. The best men snatch them up young and lock them down or marry them.

However...

Submission & neediness are not the same thing. If you think they are you are dating needy women. Submission is a choice. I for example willingly submit to a man I find to be worthy of leading me personally and I'm happy to do so. I don't "need" a man in any sense with regard to financial support or status etc., however I thoroughly enjoy men and genuinely appreciate a man who I can defer to because it allows me to fulfill the feminine role of the relationship.

The man I am seeing appreciates me a great deal precisely because he knows I choose to defer to him; he knows I don't NEED him but rather that I choose him instead of the other good men I could have chosen instead.

There is no manipulation at all involved, just simply 2 high caliber people electing to spend time together. Both have the luxury of choice; both have options; both appreciate that the other party has options too.

Neither comes from a place of "need" in a needy sense...so it makes the mutual choice rich & rewarding; it gives a context in which something with depth and intimacy can develop (and it is).

High caliber people, either men or women always have choices; always have options. So if there is not interest shown through taking the lead by the man...a high caliber woman will move on to another option who demonstrates leadership & initiative. She won't chase a guy who sends mixed signals.

If she does she doesn't have other quality options.

But top tier men or women ALWAYS have quality options. So they have the ability to be patient because of abundance.

A man shouldn't waste his valuable time with a mixed message chick either. High interest women will be responsive & encouraging while also allowing him space to do all his "man stuff". If a woman isn't responding when a man displays leadership & initiative, then by all means plate her if you can or move on but in any case keep looking.

Manipulation is for someone who has got to deceive someone else for some reason. If you have no need to deceive then you don't manipulate. I don't deceive or manipulate. I have no hidden agenda.

I am well aware that it's an unusual perspective in the context of this forum. That's Ok.

 

[LLM]

My girlfriend is 47, lovely, independent, sexy and sex has never been better. The last word I would use to describe her is pathetic.

So is your girlfriend on this forum at 47 discussing your sex life and putting herself out there for a bunch of dudes?

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

@OP, there is no "Beta with a side of Alpha"

I’ve written this before, but it bears repeating: for men wanting to change their lives and relationships, working up from Beta to Alpha is a far tougher row to hoe than tempering Alpha dominance with a personalized touch of Beta.

It is a far better proposition to impress a woman with an organic Alpha dominance – Alpha can only be a man’s dominant personality origin. There is no Beta with a side of Alpha because that side of Alpha is NEVER believable when your overall perception is one of being Beta to begin with. This is why I stress Alpha traits above all else. It’s easy, and endearing to ‘reveal’ a flash of Beta sensitivity when a woman perceives you as predominantly Alpha. If your personality is predominantly Beta, any sporadic flashes of Alpha will seem like emotional tantrums at best, character flaws at worst.

Women may love the Beta, but they only respect the Alpha. Why you'd consider this 48 y.o. woman a viable long term prospect only reinforces for anyone reading that you have no other sexual options. You may be able to outwardly feign an Alpha perception, but you still have very Beta, very Blue Pill investments you've yet to sort out.

Your concern here shouldn't be about driving her away with too much dominance, but rather that the dominance you think you have is genuine. You want to be vulnerable because you've been conditioned to believe it's attractive to women – it is not.

Any 48 y.o. woman with a peer-aged man that's in any way romantically interested in her should be thanking God every day for that situation. Instead, you're worried she may be put off by the very dominance that attracts her. You don't grasp that your SMV far outclasses hers, no matter how well preserved you think she is physically. More importantly, she understands on a very real level that YOU don't get that. She knows that you don't realize your SMP position in relation to her own because you're worried about not being Beta enough to keep her around. She knows that you Just Don't Get It, and this is her advantage with you – you are unaware of just how valuable a commodity you are in your ignorance of your own SMV.

A 48 y.o. woman as you've described here knows she's well past her Wall expiration date. As an single woman in this demographic her sexual strategy priorities center on locking down a dependable Beta for her long term security. She probably can't believe her luck to find a guy who's still ignorant of his own sexual market value to women who are 10-20 years her junior. You pre-whip yourself by not acknowledging this.

 

[Top Of The Game]

Well as a man who is almost ten years older than you are let me say that FEAR kills your game. You're into her and now you are living in fear of this or that. You are playing a role that will be hard to hold in the long run. I see that you're trying to remake yourself. Good. Nice guys rarely win.

When a woman starts communicating to you she is trying to tell you something either good or bad.

Women need closeness. You think that being this alpha thing is all about being hard and cold and distant. Well it isn't. It's okay to be passionate and hot and "engulf her" in you.

It's okay to lead her into deeper levels of love that she has never experienced before.

Get out of your melon (head) that you have to be a certain way.

One of the problems with this community online is that it injects FEAR into you so that you start 2nd guessing yourself and that is not the way of a man.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

I have been seeing her for six months - since the end of June. I was a beta beforehand and got dumped out of a two year LTR end of March for being too available, too helpful, too generous, too much into her. Her family loved me to bits and said they had never seen their mum love someone so much and be so happy. She dumped me anyway! That woman was also 48 and we were massively in love - or I thought we were - but she just ended it for apparently no reason and I believe my betaness was largely responsible. Boy that stung and I have learned the lessons.

Been seeing current GF as I say for six months. I am a lot harder to get, and I phone, text and communicate remotely a LOT less. But she has started to echo my behavior I think .... This could be because she knows - because I told her - that I am very busy, which as a doctor and surgeon I am. But when we are together we are fine, kiss, hold hands, great sex etc. Am I looking at a problem that does not exist? Maybe...

I am going to continue doing what I am currently doing. Beta "nice guy" definitely does not work despite what some of the well intended women here say. I don't think that women know themselves what they want or what they respond to. They just do not seem to respond well after a few months to nice guys who are generous and kind. They say they do, that this is the type of man they want, but time after time when guys are like that they get dumped for apparently no reason. These forums are full of such guys - myself included.

My 2 cents worth is you should not continue to follow some 'ideological' pattern towards this woman if you are interested in a LTR. The DJ way may be fine in your relations toward women in general, but it may back-fire with one woman in particular. With her you may have the opportunity to experience true intimacy. Ask yourself if this is not what you truly desire deep down.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

@OP, there is no "Beta with a side of Alpha"

A 48 y.o. woman as you've described here knows she's well past her Wall expiration date. As an single woman in this demographic her sexual strategy priorities center on locking down a dependable Beta for her long term security. She probably can't believe her luck to find a guy who's still ignorant of his own sexual market value to women who are 10-20 years her junior. You pre-whip yourself by not acknowledging this.

So sad to see humanity reduced to the 'market place'.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Posts like this show a profound misunderstanding of the concept of "alpha".

"Alpha" is not a switch that you can flick on and off...nor is it an accelerator pedal that you can throttle in and out to vary the amount of "alpha". Alpha is a state of mind. You can't be partially alpha just like a woman can't be partially pregnant. You are either an alpha or you're not. Some men are natural-born alphas. Others get there after a long journey through self-improvement.

One of the key characteristics of an alpha male (and what makes him attractive to women) is a high level of self-confidence. A true alpha would never be caught analyzing his level of "alphaness" and trying to figure out whether it's too much or too little for a particular woman. Alpha males don't even think in such terms.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Yes, short-term relationships can be interpreted as commodity-like in a market-place. But this need not be extrapolated to all relationships in general. To do that would be to take a Hobbesian/ Machiavallian approach, where life is 'solitary, nasty, brutish and short', and all considerations are reduced to power dynamics.... the error of the under-graduate. If there is no certainty beyond death and taxes, then there is no reason why this should be so. Life is what we choose to make it.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Posts like this show a profound misunderstanding of the concept of "alpha".

"Alpha" is not a switch that you can flick on and off...nor is it an accelerator pedal that you can throttle in and out to vary the amount of "alpha". Alpha is a state of mind. You can't be partially alpha just like a woman can't be partially pregnant. You are either an alpha or you're not. Some men are natural-born alphas. Others get there after a long journey through self-improvement.

One of the key characteristics of an alpha male (and what makes him attractive to women) is a high level of self-confidence. A true alpha would never be caught analyzing his level of "alphaness" and trying to figure out whether it's too much or too little for a particular woman. Alpha males don't even think in such terms.

It seems Alpha is the new word for Authenticity.