When a girl comes back around

[guru1000]

Abundance is easier said than done. Unless you are rock/movie star, how do you get to the stage of abundance. Its hard enough getting one girl let alone 3-4. With full time jobs etc, you simple don't have the time. Unless you are the only guy in the city, how does abundance come about?

Like this. Give them the gift of chasing you.

http://s682.photobucket.com/user/guru1000/media/IMG_6989_zpswnt0pinn.png.html?o=0

First build the product. Then, they will come.

 

[Glassguy]

Abundance is easier said than done. Unless you are rock/movie star, how do you get to the stage of abundance. Its hard enough getting one girl let alone 3-4. With full time jobs etc, you simple don't have the time. Unless you are the only guy in the city, how does abundance come about?

Abundance is hard for:

Lazy people, unattractive people, people not on their goals/purpose, broke @ss people, people who are not social/outgoing/fun, men without hobbies, men with no personality/charisma, fat people, etc.

Abundance is not hard for the rest of us and the opposite of the above list.

If you cant get 1 date then you sure cant have a 3 chick rotation. At that point you need to work on yourself so that you will attract more women.

If you can manage to get 2-3 dates a week (by going out and approaching, OLD, FB, etc) then you can EASILY have a 2-3 girl rotation where you are always looking to add a better candidate to replace your weaker one BY GOING ON MORE DATES other than your "rotation".

 

[oldmanofthesea]

I'm not sure if this is what mikey2012 might be eluding to, but I strongly believe you MUST learn a certain amount of game before you can be successful enough with women to actually have abundance. I believe there is a long, hard, struggle that nearly every newly red-pill aware guy must go through before abundance enters the picture. A lot of failures and a lot of lessons learned the hard way are on the path to get there. While the long-time master DJs here know their stuff to where it is second-nature for them, sometimes it's tough for those in the struggle period when they come here looking for game/tactics advice, and instead they get back "just have abundance" as the only recommendation. Don't get me wrong, for people with a bad case of one-itis, abundance may be the best advice but it isn't the answer to every question. A guy working on fine-tuning his game and tactics needs help with game and tactics when he asks for it, so long as his intent is to improve himself and not because he must have some specific girl.

That said, there is no excuse for being lazy. None of the master DJ's here are rock/movie stars, and I'm pretty sure all of us have full time jobs. Most of us have hobbies we spend a lot of time with as well, and some even have kids to look after. I think at least a few master DJ's here even own their own businesses so they are very busy. You make time for what is important to you.

 

[Mazer]

Abundance is easier said than done. Unless you are rock/movie star, how do you get to the stage of abundance. Its hard enough getting one girl let alone 3-4. With full time jobs etc, you simple don't have the time. Unless you are the only guy in the city, how does abundance come about?

You need to fit in spinning 3-4 plates into your work schedule for at least for a few
weeks (3-4). I was working fifty hours and was seeing four women. Sure, it was exhausting but it only lasted a few weeks. It proved to me I was capable of pulling multiple women when I made the effort. It left me with the feeling of if my plates drop, I know I can pick up a few new ones in a very short time because I have done it before.

 

[backseatjuan]

This sh1t happens man, when you go cold, regardless of whether she left or you dumped her. Unless of course relationship was total crap with you, or she got better action after she left you. It's her experience after you what counts really. I have a girl back from 2011 following me after I dumped her, she's a stalker. My politics on this is the following, I don't want to get into the past, meeting women is about finding the right one, getting married, you can not be single for the eternity, you will age, your d1ck will stop working, you will look old and ugly, and you will be left alone, to die. You need to get married, have children. There is absolutely no reason to bring the past back when you already know the nature of the past. It is similar to having your car repaired at a shop that already screwed you once.

You have to focus on meeting new people.

 

[Rainman4707]

I'm not sure if this is what mikey2012 might be eluding to, but I strongly believe you MUST learn a certain amount of game before you can be successful enough with women to actually have abundance. I believe there is a long, hard, struggle that nearly every newly red-pill aware guy must go through before abundance enters the picture. A lot of failures and a lot of lessons learned the hard way are on the path to get there. While the long-time master DJs here know their stuff to where it is second-nature for them, sometimes it's tough for those in the struggle period when they come here looking for game/tactics advice, and instead they get back "just have abundance" as the only recommendation. Don't get me wrong, for people with a bad case of one-itis, abundance may be the best advice but it isn't the answer to every question. A guy working on fine-tuning his game and tactics needs help with game and tactics when he asks for it, so long as his intent is to improve himself and not because he must have some specific girl.

That said, there is no excuse for being lazy. None of the master DJ's here are rock/movie stars, and I'm pretty sure all of us have full time jobs. Most of us have hobbies we spend a lot of time with as well, and some even have kids to look after. I think at least a few master DJ's here even own their own businesses so they are very busy. You make time for what is important to you.

Any updates regarding woman mentioned in original post??

 

[chuck001]

Women will come and go when you are dating. This should not be a surprise, especially since she just got out of a relationship. She wants to ride the carousel, it's what women do. I would reach out and just see her once a week.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Any updates regarding woman mentioned in original post??

Yeah @Rainman4707 , so communication was quite sparse between the first date/hookup and our next date which was last Friday. Her responses would sometimes be delayed 12-24 hours. I didn't initiate contact but once. She initiated maybe once or twice. But a few hours before our date, we texted and I could tell she was excited. We had an awesome night together and had sex for two hours. Her attitude in-person was not at all indicative of her sparse/slow texting - quite the opposite. We texted two days later and before I could bring it up, she immediately gave me some dates she was free on and asked to set plans (a little over a week out). She also said some really high IOI things in-person and over text ("I was just thinking about you" when I texted her a couple days after our date, etc). All just words of course. I put very limited stock in words but I do pay attention.

Bottom line - things are proceeding, but I am proceeding cautiously given the mixed signals. Will keep trying to set one date with her once every 1-1.5 weeks and will keep text contact down to either responding to her texts, or reaching out to her 1-2x per week. Will keep talking with other women as well. I don't have high expectations for this girl but she's really cool so would be happy if something regular could work out.

While I'm on the subject of an ex coming back around, I had a different ex come back around in the last few weeks as well. This girl and I dated a little over a year ago for 2-3 months. I hadn't learned red pill back then and she broke things off with me probably from a combination of her having serious confidence and intimacy issues from a bad childhood plus my not being alpha enough (before I learned better). No contact for a year. Then I bump into her at a social event one morning a few weeks ago. She kept hanging around me and talking to me and giving me long, strong eye contact and smiling. She was there with a friend. As we were all leaving, I asked her and her friend if they'd like to go get some food and drinks and they agreed immediately so I picked a place and the three of us went out and hung out over food and beers for five whole hours (of course I didn't pay for either of their bills). It was great, my game is much tighter now that I've had a year to learn and improve, and there were several times where I caught her staring at me while I was talking to her friend and when I'd look over at her, she'd hold eye contact with an unmistakable grin and f*ck-me eyes for a really long time. I didn't reach out to her after that night. Then a week or two later I ran into her at another social event. Same thing, she put herself in my orbit a lot. We talked more and before I left I suggested she come over to my new place sometime soon. She said yeah sounds good! I waited about 5 days, texted her something humorous from a previous conversation we had to break the ice, she laughed in response and then I invited her over for an evening about 6 days out. She didn't even respond to that text. It's been about a week since I sent it. Obviously I haven't sent her anything else and I never will. Just goes to show you never can tell with women. I judged her by her actions, which indicated strong interest for sure, but obviously the strongest action is her coming to my place alone in the evening. Maybe she was turned-off by the fact that asking her straight over to my place was too s*xually forward or presumptuous, and that she would have rather I asked her out on a proper "date" (just the two of us this time) then see where things go from there, but I'm not going to go to that level effort/investment for someone who dumped me. Maybe that's the wrong approach, but it's how I'm operating right now. Will focus on continuing to meet other girls instead, and also see where things go with the one in my original post.

 

[chuck001]

Yeah @Rainman4707 , so communication was quite sparse between the first date/hookup and our next date which was last Friday. Her responses would sometimes be delayed 12-24 hours. I didn't initiate contact but once. She initiated maybe once or twice. But a few hours before our date, we texted and I could tell she was excited. We had an awesome night together and had sex for two hours. Her attitude in-person was not at all indicative of her sparse/slow texting - quite the opposite. We texted two days later and before I could bring it up, she immediately gave me some dates she was free on and asked to set plans (a little over a week out). She also said some really high IOI things in-person and over text ("I was just thinking about you" when I texted her a couple days after our date, etc). All just words of course. I put very limited stock in words but I do pay attention.

Bottom line - things are proceeding, but I am proceeding cautiously given the mixed signals. Will keep trying to set one date with her once every 1-1.5 weeks and will keep text contact down to either responding to her texts, or reaching out to her 1-2x per week. Will keep talking with other women as well. I don't have high expectations for this girl but she's really cool so would be happy if something regular could work out.

While I'm on the subject of an ex coming back around, I had a different ex come back around in the last few weeks as well. This girl and I dated a little over a year ago for 2-3 months. I hadn't learned red pill back then and she broke things off with me probably from a combination of her having serious confidence and intimacy issues from a bad childhood plus my not being alpha enough (before I learned better). No contact for a year. Then I bump into her at a social event one morning a few weeks ago. She kept hanging around me and talking to me and giving me long, strong eye contact and smiling. She was there with a friend. As we were all leaving, I asked her and her friend if they'd like to go get some food and drinks and they agreed immediately so I picked a place and the three of us went out and hung out over food and beers for five whole hours (of course I didn't pay for either of their bills). It was great, my game is much tighter now that I've had a year to learn and improve, and there were several times where I caught her staring at me while I was talking to her friend and when I'd look over at her, she'd hold eye contact with an unmistakable grin and f*ck-me eyes for a really long time. I didn't reach out to her after that night. Then a week or two later I ran into her at another social event. Same thing, she put herself in my orbit a lot. We talked more and before I left I suggested she come over to my new place sometime soon. She said yeah sounds good! I waited about 5 days, texted her something humorous from a previous conversation we had to break the ice, she laughed in response and then I invited her over for an evening about 6 days out. She didn't even respond to that text. It's been about a week since I sent it. Obviously I haven't sent her anything else and I never will. Just goes to show you never can tell with women. I judged her by her actions, which indicated strong interest for sure, but obviously the strongest action is her coming to my place alone in the evening. Maybe she was turned-off by the fact that asking her straight over to my place was too s*xually forward or presumptuous, and that she would have rather I asked her out on a proper "date" (just the two of us this time) then see where things go from there, but I'm not going to go to that level effort/investment for someone who dumped me. Maybe that's the wrong approach, but it's how I'm operating right now. Will focus on continuing to meet other girls instead, and also see where things go with the one in my original post.

Those are some very mixed signals she's giving out. You weren't wrong about asking her straight up to come over. Why not ask her to come over in 2 days instead of 6 days out??

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Those are some very mixed signals she's giving out. You weren't wrong about asking her straight up to come over. Why not ask her to come over in 2 days instead of 6 days out??

Mainly because I was fairly busy the rest of the days and I feel like setting dates a little further out gives you better odds at her not already having plans that day.

 

[Rainman4707]

Yeah @Rainman4707 , so communication was quite sparse between the first date/hookup and our next date which was last Friday. Her responses would sometimes be delayed 12-24 hours. I didn't initiate contact but once. She initiated maybe once or twice. But a few hours before our date, we texted and I could tell she was excited. We had an awesome night together and had sex for two hours. Her attitude in-person was not at all indicative of her sparse/slow texting - quite the opposite. We texted two days later and before I could bring it up, she immediately gave me some dates she was free on and asked to set plans (a little over a week out). She also said some really high IOI things in-person and over text ("I was just thinking about you" when I texted her a couple days after our date, etc). All just words of course. I put very limited stock in words but I do pay attention.

Bottom line - things are proceeding, but I am proceeding cautiously given the mixed signals. Will keep trying to set one date with her once every 1-1.5 weeks and will keep text contact down to either responding to her texts, or reaching out to her 1-2x per week. Will keep talking with other women as well. I don't have high expectations for this girl but she's really cool so would be happy if something regular could work out.

While I'm on the subject of an ex coming back around, I had a different ex come back around in the last few weeks as well. This girl and I dated a little over a year ago for 2-3 months. I hadn't learned red pill back then and she broke things off with me probably from a combination of her having serious confidence and intimacy issues from a bad childhood plus my not being alpha enough (before I learned better). No contact for a year. Then I bump into her at a social event one morning a few weeks ago. She kept hanging around me and talking to me and giving me long, strong eye contact and smiling. She was there with a friend. As we were all leaving, I asked her and her friend if they'd like to go get some food and drinks and they agreed immediately so I picked a place and the three of us went out and hung out over food and beers for five whole hours (of course I didn't pay for either of their bills). It was great, my game is much tighter now that I've had a year to learn and improve, and there were several times where I caught her staring at me while I was talking to her friend and when I'd look over at her, she'd hold eye contact with an unmistakable grin and f*ck-me eyes for a really long time. I didn't reach out to her after that night. Then a week or two later I ran into her at another social event. Same thing, she put herself in my orbit a lot. We talked more and before I left I suggested she come over to my new place sometime soon. She said yeah sounds good! I waited about 5 days, texted her something humorous from a previous conversation we had to break the ice, she laughed in response and then I invited her over for an evening about 6 days out. She didn't even respond to that text. It's been about a week since I sent it. Obviously I haven't sent her anything else and I never will. Just goes to show you never can tell with women. I judged her by her actions, which indicated strong interest for sure, but obviously the strongest action is her coming to my place alone in the evening. Maybe she was turned-off by the fact that asking her straight over to my place was too s*xually forward or presumptuous, and that she would have rather I asked her out on a proper "date" (just the two of us this time) then see where things go from there, but I'm not going to go to that level effort/investment for someone who dumped me. Maybe that's the wrong approach, but it's how I'm operating right now. Will focus on continuing to meet other girls instead, and also see where things go with the one in my original post.

How old is the women op is about & how old is the woman that did'nt respond to your invite to your place??

 

[oldmanofthesea]

How old is the women op is about & how old is the woman that did'nt respond to your invite to your place??

31 for the OP, 36 for the one who didn't respond to my invite.

 

[Rainman4707]

31 for the OP, 36 for the one who didn't respond to my invite.

I was just curious. I'm getting older & see women on pof putting age limits on there profiles.
Well done mate!

 

[oldmanofthesea]

So this finally ran its course. Seven months, minus a one month break.

IOIs were steadily declining with one exception: Text messaging was increasing (frequency and faster responses, generally, with her initiating 95% of the time). I think it was just her enjoying someone responsive to direct her thoughts to and be connected with (the texting was never complaining - mostly stream of consciousness stuff), but that specific thing can actually be selfish, not romantic, and not a sign of interest. At the end of the day, we were really just friends with benefits and a lot of guys might have considered it a dream situation but once the IOIs started getting low (even though she'd still set dates and we'd still hook up and have great s*x), I started feeling like another dump was around the corner, I realized I was catching pretty strong feelings that weren't reciprocated and were causing me to play 100% in her frame (and honestly, a lot of dudes could learn a thing or two about frame from this chick) so I went ahead and ended it before she might have. Unsurprisingly, she put up almost no resistance and said she understood. Despite my breaking it off, it somehow felt the other way around.

Honestly can't fault her for much of anything. She has better DJ skills than most guys. Totally on her purpose, extremely busy, successful, TONS of friends, very self-focused, and a truly IDGAF take-it-or-leave-it attitude. Literally the only chink I ever found in her armor was that she seemed to get a tiny bit jealous when I'd hang out with any of my attractive female friends and she'd see something about it on social media. Not the kind of jealous that she'd say anything to me about, but the kind of jealous that would result in her finally replying to my text message that she'd not bothered responding to for 24 hours (not that slow responses were the norm, but they did happen sporadically and without any warning or pattern).

Bit of a downer, but one way to look at it is that before I started my red pill journey, there is no way in h*ll I would have been able to maintain a FWB arrangement with a girl this insanely strong and hot for seven months. So I see it as progress.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

They are just more willing to give us breadcrumbs and mixed signals to cause emotional over investment than we are

So, so f*cking true.... at least, for me. I've been working on getting better at that myself, but it's hard because it feels sh*tty and manipulative, and in the case of this girl, it seemed totally ineffective on her.

 

[Glassguy]

Break ups suck but its better now than another 7 months down the road.

Use this time to get yourself ready to be back in the game. You never know who youll meet around the next corner!

 

[guru1000]

So this finally ran its course. Seven months, minus a one month break.

IOIs were steadily declining with one exception: Text messaging was increasing (frequency and faster responses, generally, with her initiating 95% of the time). I think it was just her enjoying someone responsive to direct her thoughts to and be connected with (the texting was never complaining - mostly stream of consciousness stuff), but that specific thing can actually be selfish, not romantic, and not a sign of interest. At the end of the day, we were really just friends with benefits and a lot of guys might have considered it a dream situation but once the IOIs started getting low (even though she'd still set dates and we'd still hook up and have great s*x), I started feeling like another dump was around the corner, I realized I was catching pretty strong feelings that weren't reciprocated and were causing me to play 100% in her frame (and honestly, a lot of dudes could learn a thing or two about frame from this chick) so I went ahead and ended it before she might have. Unsurprisingly, she put up almost no resistance and said she understood. Despite my breaking it off, it somehow felt the other way around.

Honestly can't fault her for much of anything. She has better DJ skills than most guys. Totally on her purpose, extremely busy, successful, TONS of friends, very self-focused, and a truly IDGAF take-it-or-leave-it attitude. Literally the only chink I ever found in her armor was that she seemed to get a tiny bit jealous when I'd hang out with any of my attractive female friends and she'd see something about it on social media. Not the kind of jealous that she'd say anything to me about, but the kind of jealous that would result in her finally replying to my text message that she'd not bothered responding to for 24 hours (not that slow responses were the norm, but they did happen sporadically and without any warning or pattern).

Bit of a downer, but one way to look at it is that before I started my red pill journey, there is no way in h*ll I would have been able to maintain a FWB arrangement with a girl this insanely strong and hot for seven months. So I see it as progress.

Can you clarify this. You stated less IOIs and she wasn’t reciprocating your feelings, and so you made a preemptive break.

Absent the finer details, it seems like you were catching feelings (and she wasn’t as fast) so you pulled the trigger out of fear of getting dumped again as opposed to your losing interest. Please elaborate.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Thanks @Glassguy - I do already have another date setup from a girl I cold approached at a party last weekend so will see what happens.

Can you clarify this. You stated less IOIs and she wasn’t reciprocating your feelings, and so you made a preemptive break.

Absent the finer details, it seems like you were catching feelings (and she wasn’t as fast) so you pulled the trigger out of fear of getting dumped again as opposed to your losing interest. Please elaborate.

Hey Guru, my post was long so you might have missed it but you are right about what happened, though I did mention that I had caught feelings and I dumped her preemptively out of fear of getting dumped as opposed to my interest level dropping (in so many words).

The bottom line was that I was not skilled enough to get her to play in my frame, and I don't think she would have played in it anyway - she likely would have just walked. In the end, she wore me down through her bread-crumbing, hot and cold signals, subtle manipulations, and the fact that our hanging out and s*x was less important to her than it was to me. She enjoyed it FOR SURE, but if it ended tomorrow, she wasn't going to lose any sleep over it. It was always on her terms, her availability, her everything, and near zero investment from her. If I didn't want to play in that frame, I simply wouldn't get it. I was beginning to catch one-itis due to the duration we had been dating and the fact that she was hot as f*ck, and while I could have maybe backed off again and drug this out longer, it was driving me nuts, causing me stress, and I realized I needed to separate myself from it so I could be more motivated to meet and pursue other women. All that combined with feeling the possibility of another dump coming on is what led me to break it off with her.

Having more abundance would have really helped me in this situation. I'm working on that. At my age, and not using OLD, it is challenging. But I'm working on it.

I also didn't require her to invest much in me, beyond occasionally asking her to cook me dinner, or if you'd consider "s*x" to be female investment (personally I do not because I believe s*x should be something both people want, receive from, and enjoy). I am trying to experiment and learn more about female investment to understand how to better apply it, and what kinds of things I can and should ask her to invest in. In the past, I have over-invested. I have recognized this and gotten a lot better at recognizing how much the other person is investing and trying to ensure I don't exceed that amount. But I'm sure if you added it all up over the course of 7 months with this girl, I invested more than she did. From what I am learning, I think that needs to be reversed.

 

[guru1000]

It was always on her terms, her availability, her everything, and near zero investment from her.

Here is the key sentence and bolded for emphasis.

Her terms: Why concede to those terms?

Her availability: Why concede to her availability?

Zero investment: Why concede to zero investing from her?

These are rhetorical questions not requiring an answer. Seems like you did a lot of concessions, and then got sick of conceding, and so dumped.

My only recommendation to you in this thread regarding this girl was to make her work, here. Such an act would have made her invest or IT would have stopped right there. By not making her invest upfront, you cemented the future frame of your investing into her terms.

I bring this to your attention as a reference point for the next girl, whom you will make invest.

I've been seeing a girl 20+ years my junior, 9 (a different girl than I mentioned in other threads), for a few months now. I happen to like this one. I treat her well. But I ensure that she invests a ton. For example, if I don't reach out, she must, or it will end right there ... and she knows that. If she does something (that any girl her age would normally do) not to my liking whatever that may be, she gets my withdrawal, which she is intuitively aware of, and her behavior corrects immediately. Boundaries and correction without my saying a word.

All women will test you. You gotta lay down the law from Day One or its already over.

 

[The_411]

The funny thing is that a lot of guys fit into Plato’s Allegory of the Cave in that they create obstacles that aren’t really there because they think things have to be harder than they are in order to be working.

The specific advice given regarding not thinking about it and projecting an abundance mentality deals with a state.

Think about a time when you were so busy that you couldn’t do anything but it seemed like you were getting so many invitations to do things. Or think about when you had a girlfriend and it seemed like all sorts of girls were into you.

Those states aren’t easy to get into but they are the essence to success. The guys who do well with women are relaxed because they know they can’t control if a woman is into them, but they know they can control their own actions. If a woman isn’t into them then there are other women.

It’s about getting to a zen point with women where you realize that there are so many important aspects to your life and development that have nothing to do with women that so blow all of that off for some woman is ridiculous.

You can travel to the Amalfi Coast, you can drink sangria in Spain, go to the World Cup, see the Olympics, do Burning Man, etc. Is it nice to have female company sure but these and thousands more are events that are brilliant without women.