What you're up against

[bigjohnson]

Almost got me too but then I realized I was dealing with a female and technology (not a pretty mix usually) and reread it with a critical eye. The capper was that the immediately preceeding post is the source of the quote.

Have a good one.

PS - Someone show that girl where the kitchen is would you?

 

[Moonlight]

There are sensible women here, Black Widow, WaterTiger, PenKitten ... but too often there are women who are trying to change the DJ's and the DJ theories. I haven't met any woman haters here, just guys who are fed up with man haters and man-hating society.

Please, nobody wants to change you. You have your own mind and no one can "take" it away. You can give it away, however, and then blame others...

 

[bigjohnson]

Nope, I just hate stupid people.


PS - you can combine your thoughts into a single post, in case you were trying to look organized or anything

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I'm very much a woman. If you've studied natives and behaviors before modern society, humans worked in tribes which consistended of families and extended families. Males and females, each doing their part, worked together to raise the young, get the food, provide housing and protection. Young men were sent off for a time to - hear me when I write this - BECOME MEN. (So, it must take a man to raise a man!) It's not that way today because men choose to leave women or choose to spill their seed and not take responsibility for it. Those who do take responsibility (fight in court if need be) instead of blaming women are men. Those who don't aren't. That's irrespective of women. That's just the way it is and will be until someone does away with both s#xes! God made men and women to be together! Sorry all you woman haters out there. :rock:

Let me shock the sh!t out of you now; with the exception of the last line, there's not a single thing I disagree with in this post. MOONLIGHT, I'm glad you're here and I hope you stay around because you are a shining example of a woman who's also trapped in the Matrix with every other AFC.

But just to clear the air, there a very few "women haters" on the Mature forum. What you're confusing with misogyny is an abject frustration with the systematic feminization of western culture that's been progressing for the last 50 years. In fact this is the same thing you're struggling with now - "why can't men just man up and be men?" Because your interpretation of what a Man should be has been so thoughroughly conditioned into you by this feminization for the better part of your lifetime that anything contradicting it becomes a personal attack on you.

Let me explain why by using your own post:

I'm very much a woman.

Just the beginning of this post is telling of your socialization. Why did you write, "I'm very much a woman" instead of "yes, I'm a woman"? This is the response of a woman conditioned to be proud in her femininity, in fact to default to that sense of pride autonomously. So, what's the difference? How does it sound if I say "I'm very MUCH a man"? Egotistical? Like I'm offended or my manhood is in question? Same phrase, different context, different interpretations, because that conditioning is at work.

If you've studied natives and behaviors before modern society, humans worked in tribes which consistended of families and extended families. Males and females, each doing their part, worked together to raise the young, get the food, provide housing and protection.

Yes, very true. We evolved from hunter-gatherer cooperative cultures. Masculine duties were assigned to men due to their physical prowess (building, hunting, taming animals), and feminine duties were reserved for women (gathering, nurturing, caring for children). Even our biologies reflect this, men possess the most testosterone (as I'm sure you're aware now), and women have the most estrogen and oxytocin. Each hormone and endorphin triggered by gender specific events to facilitate gender specific purposes. The sexes were meant to be compliments to each other, not adversarial.

Yet as things are today, we're put into a new feminine-centric set of societal norms which conflict with our evolved, hereditary hunter-gather past and the legacy of the biology and psychology from that time.

Young men were sent off for a time to - hear me when I write this - BECOME MEN.

I couldn't have written this better. In the past there have always been rites of passage for both sexes which have been completely wiped away by modern feminization. All of these have been either wiped out or have been turned into mere ritual without meaning. Jewish boys and a bahmitzvah is one. A quienceira for latin girls is another. Both reduced to meaninglessness, because of the same feminization that makes you think you're a victim of masculine oppression and makes AFCs think masculinity is something to be ashamed of and ridiculed. For women it makes the rite of passage a vestige of past oppression. For men it makes the rite meaningless by questioning masculinity.

Understand this; The reason there are no men is because there are precious few left with the balls to teach them how to be a Man without the fear of being demonized. It's women socializing AFCs to stay boys in order to establish femininity as the norm. And to facilitate this it's women such as yourself who are conditioned to be petrified that masculinity could EVER be a positive.

 

[Sinistar]

...she's processing the logic now. A glint of new found awareness temporarily blinding out years of programming. Ahhh, they always spit it back out again. Much like a shot from the doctor. The cure is in the syringe but without the pain [of the needle] it's not going to end up anywhere useful.

Moonlight, the DJ's here don't hate women. We're just fed up with the way society is going w/r to this general movement which endorses feminism at the expense of dowplaying the positive outcomes of men actually being masculine.

Actually, when it comes right down to it, we're probably the most p1ssed at all the men before us who had a choice and blew it. First one, then another and another and another tolerated the disrespect, shame and guilt. Along the way the media crept in and saw how much money there was and it became self sustaining. Think about it, a simple example ... Everybody loves Raymond is funny - right. Or is it? Week after week, people tune in and laugh at MEN being men. They laugh when the wife/mother cals them 'idiot' or 'stupid'. What is that teaching people? Maybe you'll argue it's just a show. Well guess what, millions of mindless people also think it's just a show but they are still somehow taking away a message [albiet covert].

It appears that you are a young woman. Perhaps this very site may be the key to you having a life that is better than millions of other women around you. You have found a place that dares to cut right through all the layers of bias and conditioning to provide you with reasons why things work and don't when it comes to men, MEN and women interacting.

I have a question for you Moonlight. Would you tell us what you want in life? You know the big stuff like marriage, kids, career, home, etc. And when you answer do you feel that these goals are all congruent with each other?

 

[ketostix]

We actually care about what you think, love you, make love with you and otherwise think about you all the time.

Well most of you women are doing a very poor job of that. Just read this forum more and you'll see what guys are dealing with in regard to women in real life.

You just have an annoying and pompous female attitude that whatever you say and think is necessarily right and whatever "crap" you offer a guy he should be happy and pleased with. That's how a lot of women are and it comes from a society that spoils women, never imposes responsibilities and quidelines on them, and marginalizes, even shames "normal" male thoughts and desires.

 

[RedPill]

So, who's willing to put their money where their mouth is?

Mentoring the younger man.

 

[WestCoaster]

Actually Moonlight, if you read the initial post of this long thread you'll find out that Rollo is putting the blame on men, not women, to how we got to where we are today.

Men became AFC's, everyone else followed. This board is to suck men out of the matrix and hope women knock off their stupid cliches and social habits, i.e., "Men don't commit," or, "he's not grown up," or, "he's a player," etc.

 

[Moonlight]

Well most of you women are doing a very poor job of that. Just read this forum more and you'll see what guys are dealing with in regard to women in real life.

You just have an annoying and pompous female attitude that whatever you say and think is necessarily right and whatever "crap" you offer a guy he should be happy and pleased with. That's how a lot of women are and it comes from a society that spoils women, never imposes responsibilities and quidelines on them, and marginalizes, even shames "normal" male thoughs and desires.

Geez, as I said earlier, I have an opinion. Sorry I upset you. Hey, tell you what. You've made this so much fun, I think I'll hang around a little while. Just to keep you guys excited. :flowers:

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Actually I found this thread much more exciting:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=132086&page=2

Still no reply?

Hmmm,..

 

[bigjohnson]

Well, in that case you can relax and love me cuz I'm not stupid. :yes:

I don't dislike you at all. You seem to have had your tits in a twist because you misread something I wrote earlier but that's just par for the course. As a man, knowing you are a woman I didn't expect any reasonable response on that one but it was my duty to make it clear if I could.

It's not that I hate women or that I don't think they can be reasonable, but in specific cases like this, where a man would have said something like "whoops, I guess I misread that one, bummer, let's grab a beer" a woman will usually try every trick in the book to twist it around until we all agree the sky is chartreuse.

I just didn't want that to happen but I'm not about to blame you for being a woman. Women are fun and charming, plus they make great maids.


Cuddles, BigJ.


PS - that last bit is a test of your sense of humor. You're welcome.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Now that I think of it, I'd love to see what you think about this thread:

Operative Social Conventions

You want a good run down of the feminine social conventions that have been instrumental in turning Men into AFCs? Have a read of this post.

 

[Phyzzle]

You guys are arguing with a teenage girl? One who thinks that "not being monogamous after the 3rd date" = "being a deadbeat dad"?

women are taking responsibility, maintaining the family and raising the children while the men spin plates.

Please.

Armchair psychology: This girl has just been dumped for a better looking teenage girl by a guy who has OPTIONS. She's just a little ticked off now. Happens to the best of us.

Look, spinning plates = not being monogamous until you are 30+ and have known the woman for a long time. That's all. I would play the "moderator card" and just get her out of here.

 

[bigjohnson]

You guys are arguing with a teenage girl?

Is she? I never saw her age listed anywhere.

 

[joekerr31]

the blame doesnt lie on either side of the fence fully. if you ask me.

you can't blame it all on men. the reality is that if the majority of women have a messed up view of reality (sex in the city / desperate house wives view) then male female relationships on the whole are going to suck.

it takes two to make a relationship work and if the woman has unrealistic expectations, or is not evolved as a human being, then its going to fall apart.

just as well, men have to have their poop in a pile also.

the reality is that most men and most women are NOT mature enough, rational enough, experienced enough to develop an healthy relationship while on autopilot.

the ONLY reason most relationships 'work' is because

1) sexual attraction
2) the fear of being alone / lack of options
3) necessity (financial, children, etc.)

this is why cheating is so rampant and why divorce is so rampant. because when the factors above are no longer enough to keep one part 'holding on', things fall apart.

as men however, we have to simply accept that we can do very little about trend that has developed within the female population. yes, we as DJs can influence it, but we can't do anything about the other 99% of men who play right in to the dysfunctional mental state of (most) women today.

its basically the same as the injustices that occur around the world every day. rich people steal from poor people, children starve, etc.

and just like you have to accept that these unjust realities exist and still find a way to live your life, as a man you have to accept that most men and women are plugged in to the matrix and will remain plugged in until the day they die.

but as men what we need to focus on is becoming BETTER men. NOT, i emphasize NOT NOT NOT for women, but for ourselves.

and yes, women will go on and on about how men need to be better, but take it for what it is, most often its katty propoganda of women plugged in to the matrix.

because what women would realize if they had the insight is that

1) men are probably better today than ever before in history. men treat women better than at any other point in history (on the whole that is). but its like the old saying, give an inch and they'll take a mile - and thats what many women are doing today. ironically the better they are treated the even more better they demand to be treated until things have swung the other way and its actually THEM treating men horribly.

2) when men DO become BETTER men, women are goign to be in for a shock. becuase what they will find is NOT men who suddenly cater to their every whim. what they will find are men who will not put up with their bullsh*t. when men, en mass, evolve, women will be held to a higher standard and what is endurered today, will not be endured in the future.

so yes, men have a lot of work ahead of them. and its not an easy journey, because as they strive to become better men they will always have hords of women nagging in their ear about how they aren't good enough.

which is why women are not part of the solution. they simply arent.

men are goign to have to grow strong and healthy and happy on their own first.

and the first step in doing that is not getting caught up in the battle of the sexes. not letting what women think bother you. not putting them up on a pedestal.

and trust me, for all the talk men give of how easy women have it, i dont think they do. i see TONS of women trashing other women all the time. most women are still shallow, superficial, out of emotional control people - and those traits DO NOT lead to happiness.

moreover, the whole battle of the sexes thing is stupid if you ask me. i know lots of women who i consider much more trust worthy and honorable than a lot of men. some of the people closest to me in life, who i trust the most, who would do ANYTHING for me are women.

i LOVE women.

i love men also (not sexually)

basically i LOVE good kind caring people, whether man, woman or hermaphrodite. i dont like selfish, superficial, egotistical people - whether they be man, woman or hermaphrodite.

we need to start focusing on what makes a person good, happy and successful - instead of blaming 'genders' and mass media for hte problems. yes, lots of women and lots of men are contributing to the problem, so is the media, etc. but we can't do anything about those things.

its not easy to build a paradise while the world is burning - but that is exactly what each of us has to do. and if enough people did do that, the world would be a better place.

and we could begin to believe in love again and believe in each other again.

but like all disasters (and i would call male female relations disasterous now a days), all appears lost until out of the chaos emerges examples of how to rebuild. and over time there will be men and women who evolve and are happy. and only when enough of those relationships ahve occured will other men and women stop, look and ask 'how did they do it?"

and then the masses will start to shift and start to evolve.

unfortunately though that process might take longer than our life times. its definitely more than a decade off - which for most of us is where our immediate concerns lay

 

[Bonhomme]

Good post, joekerr

The first thing that needs to be done (in the US at least), is to do away with the "no fault divorce," which led to the unintended (?) consequence that the person with lesser income and assets (usually the woman) can unilaterally ditch the marriage and leave the other with a great deal of the financial responsibilities of the marriage and none of the benefits: essentially being rewarded for their bad behavior.

Until then, many people -- especially men -- just see marriage for the bad deal it has become unless you marry an individual of truly exceptional character.

 

[Nighthawk]

I might be trolling LoveShack a bit as we speak... (Hi jophil28)

 

[Interceptor]

This is interesting, I don't know if you guys have sen it already. But check it out. Interesting.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFEaJbB0SZk

 

[joekerr31]

bon,

i think the no fault divorce was meant to try and civilize the divorce process. instead of two people fighting over who was right and who was wrong and wasting the courts time and thousands of dollars, now (at least in canada) its basically 'split the sh*t down the middle and each of you take half. done."

unfortunately i dont think any legeslative action can make much of an impact on male female relationships - i think we're too far gone for that.

but i agree with you 100% that men need to STOP getting married unless they know what a mature woman looks like and has found one.

but until men wake up and realize this they will continue to get married, have 6 months of bliss, then 9 years of depression, followed by half of everything they made being taken away and endless child support payments.

some men i feel sorry for, because they are good guys who truly thought they had a good woman. but for most guys, i can take one look at their wife/woman and to me (not them) its clear they are going to get taken in the long run.

 

[Latinoman]

Ok, I've gotta go on record here. I have one 29 year old male friend, and a couple of 30 something male friends, all single. With respect to my situation (married to my wife), all three of them envy me more, not the other way around. In fact, all 3 have overtly stated that they envy me (specifically, my wife and my married, stable state). Sure, like any man, I also envy to some extent a man who can (ethically) have any woman he wants, such as these guys, BUT I wouldn't trade what I have for that right. I have never once regretted my marriage, and continue to not regret it despite being fully educated on DJ principles.

Now don't get me wrong; i'm not saying that any single man should envy me. What i'm saying is, is that I disagree with RT's characterization that it is the married men predominately envying the single men. Maybe it is, on average, but it certainly isn't from my personal perspective. Even looking beyond me, I have far more frequently seen single guys envying the married folks with 2.3 kids, 2 cars and a house, than the other way around.

So, you take it too far sometimes, RT. DJ vs not is about a mindset and how you live your life. It has only two things to do with the married vs not married issues; that would be jack and s***.

So, I generally agree with the things you're trying to encourage here, RT; that being to not be pressued into either a LTR or a marriage. I fully agree with that. But I think you really need to stop short of belitting men that are married, regardless of the age that they did so. If for no other reason, quit doing it so that you quit putting yourself down. Having many past encounters doesn't change the fact that you're married today provided marriage is some bad thing to avoid. If marriage is inherently a less desirable position for a man, then at least start by admitting you also belong to this so-called, lesser state now.

I used to be married to a good woman. Now, I'm single. I can tell you one thing...I do NOT envy ANY married man. In fact, I'm VERY happy with my current status. RT is right.