What would you do if your wife...

[sharkbeat]

I have had a loyal GF who would tell me all interactions she had with other men. She would tell me what they talk about, or even when men tried to hit on her. It could be a sign of trust and loyalty (that she doesn't want to hide things from you), or it could be attention-whoring, depending on your relationship with her.

 

[jonwon]

You're quite right. This happened to me about 3 years ago. We are now getting divorced. This was the first crack in the marriage that I noticed, and just wanted to know what my course of action should have been. I didn't really know how to react so I just let it go. This just resulted in more and more disrespect for me and ultimately her going to Canada to **** a guy she met on the internet while I'm left depressed and suicidal.

I'm pulling out of it now and trying to better myself and my life. I just don't want to ever repeat the same mistakes.

Depressed and suicidal, don't worry alot of men have been there, dam when my marriage broke down, I felt like a massive failure.

But try to learn one important lesson:

Never ever put your life in the hands of another human again.

What I mean is, you put an unhealthy obsession with the wife, acted out of fear of loss and didn't put your foot down when the relationship started to encrouch past the point of pis* taking -

You sacrificed your values, your integrity and your own self worth, for what?

And that is the question you need to take into your next relationship.

Was it worth it putting up with that much shi* and for what?

most guys don't know the 'for what' part, they just hang on through fear, fear of loss and fear of being perceived to be a failure.

Sometimes we make poor choices, but its what we do when we found out we fuc*ed up is what counts.

Your poor choice was dating and marrying this women - The part where you knew you messed up was the time to act, not the time to hang on in the hope things may change and if you ignore it or try to be nicer - she may get wise to the damage she is doing. Women like this dont work that way, hence when they start to pull shi* of this nature is the time to 'man up' and either lay down the mother fuc*ing law, or walk - married or not.

This woman wasn't marriage material - I don't care what you did or didn't do - no matter how messed up you are or how beta, for a wife to act like yours did, points the finger to the wife, having low character and further points the finger to you for settling for the bitc*.

 

[Sigh]

I do not know if the divorce is final. Or if you have any children together?

If it is final, and there are no children.....then you should go No-Contact. No matter what messages she leaves, when she calls, if she stops by.....anything. You do NOT interact with her in any way. She no longer exists. This will help immensely in the healing process, and stop her from being able to continually "scar" you.

Of course, if the divorce is not yet finalized, or if you have children....the options change and you will need to adapt.

In any case, let go of that baggage. It is time to start a much better part of your life.

The divorce isn't final, but we don't have kids. Not being able to get her pregnant has been one cause of the problems we have, that's probably been a blessing in disguise.

I'm still forced to see her but I'm not going to speak to her about anything other than the divorce

I have a question for the OP - before you married her, did you ever see or experience any mindgames by her which involved other guys? Any heavy flirting with others, any cheating with a male "friend", any attempts to get you to jump though hoops . Perhaps she set up a rivalry between you and another guy, or told you some stories from her past which included some details of her relationships with other guys...?

If you don't mind, it might be instructive to a lot of us if you can recall any "red flags" you noticed BEFORE you married her. I think one of the great fears in this board is that a seemingly perfect women will pull a complete 180 once she is in a marriage; I'm firmly in the camp that says this is not realistic, and that premonitions of infidelity, etc. are given even within the first year of dating. But, others disagree, and who knows? I could be wrong.

Do you know what her dating history was like before you? Did she have a history of cheating? What was her parents' relationship like? Did she give you reasons to feel jealous or threatened when you were dating? All these questions might give you some insight on how this came about.

Before we got married I thought she was absolutely perfect. She was an attractive 23 year old virgin. Those don't come along every day. Also she was smart, fun, and we had the same goals in life. We both had ambition and we wanted to make a better than average life for ourselves.

She had never had a serious boyfriend before me. She had only kissed one other guy, and they never did anything beyond making out. She was always on guard with guys and never let anybody close to her. Her dad had cheated on her mom a lot when she was growing up, and I guess that was the reason. Her mother wouldn't divorce her father though. They're still together and somewhat happy.

We actually met online on a forum for an alternative rock band in 2001. When I met her she already had a "boyfriend" that she met on that forum, and they were in a long distance relationship. She ended up meeting him once and he's the only guy she kissed before me. This is also where/when she met the guy she ended up cheating on me with in Canada last month. She liked guys online because it was "safe", and I was told by her friends and family that whenever a guy tried to hit on her in real life she would totally shut them down every time.

After becoming close with her online and telling her that I thought I had feelings for her she ended her long distance relationship (she said I stole her from him), and I went there to see her from where I lived on the east coast (fall of 2003). Nothing much happened at first..we cuddled a lot, and we made out one time the night before I left. A few months later I came back and things really took off, and I managed to get much more physical. I made one more visit a few months later, and then a couple months after that she came to the east coast to see me and my family. It was at that time that we decided that I would move there to be with her (fall 2004).

The only warning signs I got were in the months before I moved here she had some new friends (who didn't know me, just knew OF me) that were encouraging her to try dating guys that she met in real life, and for a time she was sorta hot and cold with me. She said she wasn't sure if the long distance thing would work again since she had already failed with that the time before. There were some emotional ups and downs but by the time she came to see me she was sure she wanted to be with me.

She is from a very Catholic family (Filipino), and shortly after I moved her parents started pressuring us to get married, and within 3 months we were. I was extremely happy though. I thought there was no way she ever could turn into what she is now. I felt like I had struck gold, and I was the luckiest guy in the world.

 

[jonwon]

I don't know, man. I was in a LTR not too long ago when my ex was telling me that another guy was hitting on her at work. The guy and I knew each other but didn't know her and I were together. I figured it was a head game and attention seeking as well. I told her that if she really wanted him to stop he would, and I didn't play the game.

Well, a couple of months later, I discovered that they were talking on the phone a lot...even late night.


So this situation may not be so simple. She could be telling you to cover her tracks so she could have a cover story unless things got a bit more touchy feely at work and you found out or she could be attention seeking and testing you to see how you react.

Since this is your wife, if it was me, I would demand that she tell the guy that she is happily married and if he continues, she will report him. This way you will have your bases covered. If you say nothing, she may think that she can get away with flirtatious behavior or even worse. If you make the above demand, she will probably respect you for being protective of your marriage. This isn't some chic you are dating but it's your wife, right?
This is likely a sign that she feels insecure in the marriage or that there are problems in the marriage. A happily married woman would not do this unless she was truly being bothered by the advances and just was being open with you which I doubt.

Making demands is pointless, damage done.

She's not insecure about the marriage, she just wants to fuc* another guy. This is why men forgive blatent lack of respect, they try to rationize it like the woman is a 'victim' she is a victim alright a victim of her emotional ego trip and her gina.

 

[Sigh]

Making demands is pointless, damage done.

She's not insecure, she just wants to fuc* another guy. This is why men forgive blatent lack of respect, they try to rationize it like the woman is a 'victim' she is a victim alright a victim of her emotional ego trip and her gina.

I think she's extremely insecure. She needs validation from other men...getting it from me wasn't enough.

I know I wasn't perfect. I know I made mistakes. I wasn't in control like I should have been. I just wasn't man enough.

Also not too long after we got married I started a business that ended up failing, and that caused financial strain that took a while to get out of. We were only just starting to get out of it a few months ago when she said she wanted a divorce. She had just graduated from nursing school.

The day she got a job as an RN...her VERY NEXT SENTENCE after telling me that she got hired, she told me she wanted a divorce.

 

[Sigh]

Also I just want to thank everybody for their replies. The support really means a lot. It's nice to know there is a place where I can talk to guys who understand what I'm going through and can help.

 

[jonwon]

I think she's extremely insecure. She needs validation from other men...getting it from me wasn't enough.

I know I wasn't perfect. I know I made mistakes. I wasn't in control like I should have been. I just wasn't man enough.

Also not too long after we got married I started a business that ended up failing, and that caused financial strain that took a while to get out of. We were only just starting to get out of it a few months ago when she said she wanted a divorce. She had just graduated from nursing school.

The day she got a job as an RN...her VERY NEXT SENTENCE after telling me that she got hired, she told me she wanted a divorce.

Insecure yes, but not insecure about the marriage.

Your Ex sounds BPD.

Perfect or not, when you know this about your wife "She needs validation from other men...getting it from me wasn't enough" It's time to bail - no rationalizing needed on what you did or didn't do in the relationship - the only rational you need is why you settled for her in the first place.

 

[Sigh]

the only rational you need is why you settled for her in the first place.

She was perfect at first. I don't know how I could have seen this coming. In my mind I wasn't settling, I thought I had found a diamond in the rough. She was my absolute ideal woman, and I thought we were going to grow old together.

There was no way to learn from her history because she didn't have one.

You and the other guy that mentioned it are right though...I think she may have BPD.

 

[jonwon]

She was perfect at first. I don't know how I could have seen this coming. In my mind I wasn't settling, I thought I had found a diamond in the rough. She was my absolute ideal woman, and I thought we were going to grow old together.

There was no way to learn from her history because she didn't have one.

You and the other guy that mentioned it are right though...I think she may have BPD.

Then she wasn't perfect, you just lacked the experiance and knowledge to understand that fact.

Now you do, you live and learn - think of the experiance you gained and how far you've developed in terms of what you 'ACTUALLY' want in relation to a greater knowledge base and values.

This is a good thing, a blessing in disguise, the situation could be vastly worse, instead you learned a valuable lesson and took away great life experiances, experiances you may pass on and share, like guys here.

Your next relationship will be 10000 x better, when you remove the jumbled 'feelings' that the loss has given you and when time heals you of the wounds, you'll come out stronger and wiser. You can't buy that shi* it has to be earned and some men need to learn the hard way - your one of them, and in the shape of things, you've learned with minimul loss.

Edit - It's one thing learning from a woman about her past, it's another learning about woman by her ACTIONS - Just because she was a catholic virgin doesn't mean shi* when she is harvesting a coc* carousel at the first opportunity - I'm not here to make excuses or rationize her actions - the fact of the matter is she crossed a line - I believe like all other situations like this - she showed her true colours many a time, you just lacked the for-sight and the knowledge to see her actions - which was probably buffered by her past - hence in this situation its a perfect example of not letting a womans past blind you to her ACTIONS - ACTIONS is key when dealing with woman, women communicate freely, just most men dont listen - they dont know what to look out for.

I suggest you look at her ACTIONS in the past instead of focusing on her history, analyze her actions and be truthful with the many times her ACTIONS painted a picture of a woman who is displaying BPD qualities - I am sure there are many such instances that you ignored and probably still do.

 

[Kailex]

this brings up a very good point.

i think every man should have an "exit strategy". I have one. if **** hit the fan i know exactly what steps i am going to take.

I'm beginning to believe that man shouldn't have an "exit strategy", but rather, they shouldn't get INTO marriage in the first place. I'm really beginning to believe that monogamy is just the woman's way of entrapping men into LTR's when we shouldn't really be strapping ourselves down like this.

The fact that we believe we need an exit strategy already means that we have little faith in the relationship already.

I just don't see the benefit of being married anymore. I know for several men, like you, for example... have different situations. But right now, as I stand, I just don't see the benefit at all of having to go through planning an "exit strategy". Isn't that just a self-defeating attitude within the relationship even if it is realistic?

Wouldn't it be better to just not create the need for an exit strategy in the first place?



And I guess to Sigh (you need a new username), I ask this question: How long were you two going out before you decided to propose and then eventually get married?

 

[Sigh]

And I guess to Sigh (you need a new username), I ask this question: How long were you two going out before you decided to propose and then eventually get married?

Its hard to quantify how long we were "going out". We started talking a lot and became close friends for a year and a half before we ever met. Then there was a year from the time I first went to see her until I moved to live with her. By the time I moved we had probably spent about 100x more hours talking to each other than most couples do before they move in together...since we were apart physically, all we could do is talk.

In the year before I moved I saw her 4 times, with the average trip lasting about 6 days (during which we would be together constantly day and night). And when I wasn't with her we talked even more than we did before. Usually for at least an hour on the phone before we slept every night, sometimes a lot more than that.

After I moved here I proposed about 2 months later (as I said before there was some pressure from her parents, but I didn't mind, I wanted to marry her).

It wasn't a question of not knowing her well enough. I knew her as much as anybody could possibly know another person. There are couples that are together for 20 years that don't talk as much as we talked in the 3 years before we got married. She CHANGED. She was sweet and innocent, she wanted to be the mother of my children. There were no previous actions that could have given me warning.

She's now an evil, terrible person. She's incredibly insecure, and also incredibly immature. When there were hard times in our marriage she let her mind wander and wondered what it would be like if she gave in to the advances of guys that were hitting on her. She had never had a relationship that didn't originate online, and she felt like she had missed out on something that every other girl gets to experience. I'm not defending her at all. I have nothing but hatred for her right now, I'm just trying to explain some of her messed up thought process. I do think it's partially my fault though...I just wasn't enough of a man.

 

[jonwon]

Its hard to quantify how long we were "going out". We started talking a lot and became close friends for a year and a half before we ever met. Then there was a year from the time I first went to see her until I moved to live with her. By the time I moved we had probably spent about 100x more hours talking to each other than most couples do before they move in together...since we were apart physically, all we could do is talk.

In the year before I moved I saw her 4 times, with the average trip lasting about 6 days (during which we would be together constantly day and night). And when I wasn't with her we talked even more than we did before. Usually for at least an hour on the phone before we slept every night, sometimes a lot more than that.

After I moved here I proposed about 2 months later (as I said before there was some pressure from her parents, but I didn't mind, I wanted to marry her).

It wasn't a question of not knowing her well enough. I knew her as much as anybody could possibly know another person. There are couples that are together for 20 years that don't talk as much as we talked in the 3 years before we got married. She CHANGED. She was sweet and innocent, she wanted to be the mother of my children. There were no previous actions that could have given me warning.

She's now an evil, terrible person. She's incredibly insecure, and also incredibly immature. When there were hard times in our marriage she let her mind wander and wondered what it would be like if she gave in to the advances of guys that were hitting on her. She had never had a relationship that didn't originate online, and she felt like she had missed out on something that every other girl gets to experience. I'm not defending her at all. I have nothing but hatred for her right now, I'm just trying to explain some of her messed up thought process. I do think it's partially my fault though...I just wasn't enough of a man.

A few more questions:

1: At what stage in the relationship was you aware your wife was still doing online dating?

2: What is your take on marriage and family?
I.e what is your goal at 31 years old - or should I say what was your mindset at the age of wanting to marry this chick.

3: Why do you put importance so much on 'words' - The reason why I ask is because your wife says alot but clearly shows different by her actions - what made you think you 'knew' this woman after living with her for only two months? i'm not refering to her and you 'talking' - i'm refering to actually seeing what she is like, we can all talk its how we 'act' that counts.

4: How many partners/relationships have you had - the reason why I ask is i'm still wondering why you'd nature a relationship from online dating for such a length of time - Why online dating? I'm just trying to understand the reasoning for meeting a girl online, a long distance relationship - meeting up now and again then moving down to be with her.

P.S this isn't about her, this is about you - let's try to understand your mental framing and see what we can discover. Also alot of girls get this 'she felt like she had missed out on something that every other girl gets to experience'. It isn't uncommon at all.

 

[Razor Sharp]

There is no rocket science here - she never got to scratch her bachelorette itch before settling down. This is a valid argument against marrying virgins, at least in westernized cultures.

In short, you can only blame yourself so much here - and I wouldn't say this girl is insane BPD or anything either - just inexperienced and immature. You can analyze and tear this apart a million ways, but sometimes it really just is a case of bad timing on both parts. Nothing will ruin a marriage or relationship quicker than two people (or one) who were never truly prepared to commit in the first place.

In most cases people really do need a chance to sample different flavors of relationships before they settle into one. No matter how much you like hamburgers, I'm sure that tasting your first one didn't keep you from trying pizza or tacos. Only by enjoying variety can we have the necessary perspective to be exclusive.

As far as I'm concerned your biggest mistake was your impatience. Proposing after two months of meeting an online prospect is a big FAIL on your part. After seeing many marriages fall apart, I would never consider proposing to someone who I wasn't with for at LEAST a year.

This is the #1 problem that people face in relationships, IMO. Giving away unmerited trust, just because things "feel" right and it's easy to get swept up in the moment. She was hot, she seemed like a catch and you tried to lock it down prematurely without letting her EARN your trust the way she is supposed to. Happens to the best of us, sadly.

It would be wise of you to remember this stinging sensation in your soul next time you think of trusting someone you just met with your heart - that sh*t only works in the movies my friend.

Keep ya head up dude - it's tough going right now but it gets easier everyday. The speed of your recovery is directly linked to your ability to not only forgive her, but yourself!

 

[Nutz]

Scenario: Your wife tells you that a guy at work has been hitting on her very hard, and even proposed that they have sex at work and keep it a secret.

How would you proceed?

If the first thing you'd do is ask her to tell you his name: She says she won't tell you because she doesn't want you to confront him. Now what would you do?

First things first:
You need to be careful not to fall for the trap where they cause drama, put you on hiatus, aka "taking a break", then pork the guy guilt-free because in their mind it doesn't count as you weren't together.

Now for my advice:
Be a man, and not in the feminist shaming language sense. By this I mean you need to step up and lay down the law. It's your way or the highway, you don't need her, and be the alpha that demands her submissiveness. She wouldn't have brought this up if she didn't want the drama and you reacting to it for whatever need she has to get out of this. She's either looking for excuses for something she already did, or she's thinknig about her options. You need to completely shatter her reality that you're weak and will let anything happen, or that if she does she will be totally and completely done, as out of your life forever.

My gut instinct is you've never had "the talk", which is where you let her know your standards, expectations, and what happens if she doesn't live up to them. Do that ASAP before it's too late, and don't be afraid it use this crap with her and the coworker as an example of what you won't put up with. Your way or the highway. And when she balks and gets indignant, you need to stay strong, even if she does walk for a while. She'll respect you for it and come back around later if she still feels gina tingls for you. If you give her the talk correctly she most definietely will.

 

[sodamnsmooth]

Scenario: Your wife tells you that a guy at work has been hitting on her very hard, and even proposed that they have sex at work and keep it a secret.

How would you proceed?

If the first thing you'd do is ask her to tell you his name: She says she won't tell you because she doesn't want you to confront him. Now what would you do?

If she didn't want you to confront him then why is she telling you in the first place? She either likes it or wants to make you very, very jealous. Both are not cute at all.

 

[Fantasy]

The day she got a job as an RN...her VERY NEXT SENTENCE after telling me that she got hired, she told me she wanted a divorce.

Damn, man, that is so cold. I will never understand how someone can treat their spouse like trash from a street. The ugliness of some people is just astounding too frequently.

This make me glad I have avoided marriage for so long. Every time I wonder what it would actually be like to just go ahead and do it, I read a story like this.

 

[Jeffst1980]

Sometimes, traits that sound great on paper are actually insidious warning signs.

A 23 year old virgin sound wholesome, pure, etc. . . but the fact remains that this is not NORMAL in western society.

Her unwillingness to respond to advances made on her in everyday life might make her out to be loyal and devoted, but it's motivated by an underlying insecurity with herself.

Women that hide behind online monikers, or that demand an unreasonable amount of phone time before even doing so much as make out, or that insist on remaining long distance for as long as possible, have serious, unfixable issues. You dodged a bullet by not having children with her; at least now you can cease contact with her.

It's easy to think someone is perfect at the beginning of a relationship, but the fact is, this girl is screwed up. Her insecurities and intimacy issues caused her to be extremely selfish and unable to acknowledge the feelings of others (whether she's BPD or not, I don't know).

Feel free to vent about this, and ignore the posters that say that a real DJ would have prevented this--that is an absurd hypothetical argument that takes comfort in being impossible to refute. Being good with ladies does not make one qualified to treat mental illness.

 

[jophil28]

Feel free to vent about this, and ignore the posters that say that a real DJ would have prevented this--that is an absurd hypothetical argument that takes comfort in being impossible to refute. Being good with ladies does not make one qualified to treat mental illness.

Indeed. Well said Jeff.
Living as an authentically masculine man in a healthy relationship with a feminine and faithful quality woman will likely fulfil most of your emotional and sexual needs. But adopting DJ "ways" to rein in a woman who is low class, or who suffers from some mental disorder, is a misguided fantasy that will turn into a nightmare.

 

[backbreaker]

Jeff and Jophil make very strong points.


Many people get confused not only on the "How" of being a DJ....but also what this tool is supposed to do for you.

DJ skills will NEVER keep a poorly behaved woman from cheating, or from any other poor behavior. That is not what they are meant for.

These skills are meant to teach men to put their own lives first, making sure no woman or any other person defines their life. That is the path to failure.

DJ skills will help you keep a QUALIFIED woman happy and in your life....but there is no solution for a poor quality woman

other than to walk away from her own personal train-wreck of a life.

being a dj is learning how to walk away from a poorly qualitfied woman instead of submitting to her silly games.

the problem is that people try to make this too black and white. you cannot stop a slut from being a slut at the end of the day.

but there is a fine line in you dont' bring enough to the table to make her care, and, she's bad**** crazy regardless of how much of a catch i am.


2 examples.

my old oneitis, although she isn't really my type anymore, i could have made that work. there was a time, for about 6t months when she was at the end pratcially begging me to date her. i could have dated her and made it work. she's not low quality, just not really type. i knew i could do better in my eyes. she was not low quality becase she chose not to date me, she chose not to date me because i was a raging AFC for 5 years. why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free.

there was another girl in my dates of spinning plate, alexis, cute, not hot but cute, young, 18, she 1. had a kid so that was already strike 2 but she was a freak, so i gave her a chance. we were never more than **** buddies, so i didnt' mind her dating other guys but when she would start to rag on the way i dressed becuase i wasn't black enough (and she was white) i quickly let her go. she was just stupid.

 

[sodbuster]

Well, you get some of her income from the degree,make sure you try to get it. Next,go out to a bar,write a $50 check and have 1 beer. Keep the rest of the cash[everyone KNOWS you'd be upset and drink] in your safe place[mine was my desk at work,when I saw the divorce coming, I stashed 15k in cash BEFORE she filed]. SO, when it comes time to divide assets-you'll have a couple thousand less to divide[and use to buy stuff when it's final]