What Woman Need Their Man To Know

[blueblue]

The other day I had a conversation with a 35 yr. old female friend of mine, who I’ve know for about two years. She is now going through a divorce and she was commenting to me on how a jerk her cheating ex-to-be husband was to her. In a previous conversation, she had revealed to me that as child and through her teen years, she was sexually abused by more than one close male in her family. Probably due to these set of abusiveness events, she has come to grow a hard shell to the point that not many, if anyone, knows her deepest secrets…her dark side.

Fighting the tears running down her check, she confessed that her core desire in her heart has not change since she was a little girl; all she wanted was to be loved, desired and to be made to feel special. With doubts about how she relates to the men in her life and the relationships she has had in the past, my friend has chosen to close off the tenderness of her soul and let a coldness enter in. At the end of this very emotional and intense conversation, she had told me that no one has ever made her cry and then hugged me and told me that I was a good friend.

With three children of her own, plus she has custody of her dead beat brother’s mentally handicap 10 year old, my friend is a very nurturing mother and caring woman who deep down wants a way out of her internal ‘prison’, but has yet to cross that barrier.

She is not a bitter man hating person, but has more of a very flirtatious flare where she, in my opinion, needs to have a sense of power, over everyone she comes in contact. She thrives on the attention and only lets a selected few into her very private life. In reality, her power is her natural femininity, the part when she is not seeking all that attention.

Over the next few days, I thought about our talk.

Do our women need to let us know of their dark side? Do we need to re-shape our frame of thinking to better understand? How do we connect with this world of our women, the women who have these deep wounds? Should we try to gain some insight into this unknown? Or do we leave this to the therapists.

Can anyone relate?

 

[squirrels]

You think they would if you asked them? It'd only scare you off. Why would they do anything to jeopardize their chances of finally finding a man to latch on to?

The best you can do is look at how her relationships with her family are. Most women who were raised wrong, unfortunately, are going to have a LOT of issues that are buried that they won't let you see except by "accident", when they've been around you long enough to let their guard down.

I feel deeply for any woman who was abused, sexually or otherwise, at a young age, but unfortunately, while it helps explain poor behavior (which is certainly a pitiable state), it does not justify it. That's like the guy who beats his wife because his father beat him. I feel for the guy, but I don't feel obligated to like him as an act of mercy, nor do I excuse him from the responsibility of working through his problems and taking responsibility for his own actions.

 

[DJDamage]

This woman is damaged goods and has unresolved issues. Her irrational behaviour and sexual issues is what probably drove her ex away and that's why she is calling him a jerk.

Don't ever become a therapist to a woman. Its up to the woman herself to one day decide she ain't going to be a victim anymore and get over this. Sadly the woman in your case still blames everyone and anyone for her current situation and sucking you right into her life filled drama.

 

[KontrollerX]

"She is not a bitter man hating person, but has more of a very flirtatious flare where she, in my opinion, needs to have a sense of power, over everyone she comes in contact. She thrives on the attention and only lets a selected few into her very private life. In reality, her power is her natural femininity, the part when she is not seeking all that attention."

Massive attention seeking behaviour and literally seeming to thrive off of it is the hallmark and main symptom of Histrionic Personality Disorder and can also be found in the Borderline Personality Disordered.

She may not be either of these and may simply be depressed but you should look these things up.

Women with troubled childhoods often develop these conditions and use many psychological tactics to bring out the captain save a ho instinct in men and once the men are emotionally hooked these women cut those men off much like their love was cut off by the people that were supposed to love them when they were children ie their parents or whoever was their caretaker at the time.

What she confinded to you sounds exactly like stories many BPD's have told me when I moderated a forum about it.

Since the conditions make these people pathological liars not all of their stories of woe are true but just simply devices to get attention and sympathy and draw you into their web getting you emotionally caught up thinking you are special because she supposedly "let you in."

To get the attention and love that they did not get as children they'll tell elaborate stories about all of their stalkers who in reality are guys they flirted with and gave their phone numbers to, how bad and awful their cheating ex's were when it was really they that were the cheaters to begin with, and how they are not valued by men as anything other than sex objects when its how they portray themselves to the world but they can't see it.

Now if she was just depressed I wouldn't of suggested either of these conditions as a possibility as many people go through depression but you mentioned massive attention seeking behaviour and how she seems to want to get power over others.

These two things are very much symptoms of Cluster B Personality Disorders.

It doesn't mean she is one definitely but you should look the conditions up and see how much more of the criteria she fits so if you remain her friend you at least know what you are dealing with and if its a cluster b just know that no real meaningful friendship connection will be made with you even though you might feel there is a genuine friendship there.

Why? Quite simply because these people view us as objects to be used for their needs in the moment. If your friend is a Cluster B you are no more valueable to her than a refrigerator or television set.

Once a new refrigerator or tv becomes available and its shinier than your model you will be exchanged.

Oh and for the guys they select to be only their friends they tend to make those guys into their confidants who they tell all their secrets to but because they think manipulation is necessary to secure a longterm friendship with anyone they'll use the same lies they do on their lovers to get sympathy and your support.

"Over the next few days, I thought about our talk.

Do our women need to let us know of their dark side? Do we need to re-shape our frame of thinking to better understand? How do we connect with this world of our women, the women who have these deep wounds? Should we try to gain some insight into this unknown? Or do we leave this to the therapists.

Can anyone relate?"

Men and women can both have deep wounds and if the wounds are deep enough it should be left to the therapists to deal with.

Friends can be a shoulder to cry on from time to time so long as the man or woman that is your friend affords you the same courtesy when you're going through a rough patch yourself but mostly friends should try and cheer eachother up when one is going through bad times and needs a lift.

Too much counseling and you become your friend's therapist and get dragged down into an emotional blackhole yourself.

Don't do it.

 

[azanon]

I agree with the responses so far; a healthy woman is confident and excited about her sexuality. And unless you just want to be her "friend", don't even entertain helping her. That'll just make you her male "girlfriend".

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Law 10: Infection: Avoid the Unhappy and Unlucky
You can die from someone else's misery— emotional states are as infectious as diseases. You may feel you are helping the drowning man but you are only precipitating your own disaster. The unfortunate sometimes draw misfortune on themselves; they will also draw it on you. Associate with the happy and fortunate instead.

 

[potato]

Law 10: Infection: Avoid the Unhappy and Unlucky
You can die from someone else's misery— emotional states are as infectious as diseases. You may feel you are helping the drowning man but you are only precipitating your own disaster. The unfortunate sometimes draw misfortune on themselves; they will also draw it on you. Associate with the happy and fortunate instead.

And so, the preferred course of action is to just walk away and let them drown?

 

[DJDamage]

And so, the preferred course of action is to just walk away and let them drown?

or let her pull you in and you drown with her?

 

[potato]

You think they would if you asked them? It'd only scare you off. Why would they do anything to jeopardize their chances of finally finding a man to latch on to?

Actually I think that women are more likely, then men, to inform their potential mates of shortcomings that they may have, especially something that might drive a man away. It is the woman making sure that the guy is okay with her, and how she is before she invests emotional energy into the guy.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Let me throw in part of a message from my recent ex, who has bpd:


I was trained from a very young age to keep secrets. Mom always told me every single time I left the house "Mind your P's and Q's". That meant, "don't tell anyone about so-and-so falling asleep in the bathtub last night.". Or "Don't say anything about my boyfriend putting his hands down your pants while I was sleeping". Or, "don't mention that the electricity is turned off and we have no food." Or....well, you get the gist. I am also very good at getting people to tell me how they feel, because it makes me feel as though I have power over them when I fool them back. I am a b!tch, I suppose. But I didn't start out this way.

After you first kissed me, I stopped being honest, on a lot of levels. That's just how I roll. Mostly I was waiting to see if you really cared about me or were just wanting to sleep with me out of sport. I might have started being honest in time, but we'll never know now, will we? For instance, that night I left your house with (female friend) was because I very calmly went into the bathroom and had a very quiet come-apart , she had to be convinced you hadn't physically hurt me in some way. She came and got me, and I then proceeded to have a drunken sob-fest in her car about you and (baby daddy). She covered for me, and I don't think you knew. If you did, well--you didn't do anything about it, so it doesn't matter.

 

[squirrels]

And so, the preferred course of action is to just walk away and let them drown?

If it's bad enough that they're going to drown, recommend therapy. You are neither qualified nor obligated to save a woman from her own emotional demons.

 

[squirrels]

Actually I think that women are more likely, then men, to inform their potential mates of shortcomings that they may have, especially something that might drive a man away.

Well then you think wrong. Unless you're talking about deep into the relationship when she thinks the man has enough invested that he won't ditch her when she finds out how much of a nutjob she is.

If she tells you about all her problems right off the bat, chances are she's MUCH crazier than a girl who would break them to you slowly over time.

 

[joekerr31]

Do our women need to let us know of their dark side? Do we need to re-shape our frame of thinking to better understand?

no and no.

lots of women lie about being molested. i was with one girl who told me that while she wasn't sure if she was molested, there was somethign inside of her that knew something bad had happened when she was young.

i mean, wtf! she's basically saying 'even though i dont remember being molested, i still think i was. it was probably so bad that i can't even remember it."

WOMEN ARE CRAZY!

and yes, i feel badly for those that were molested, but there are TONS of women who will say they were molested when they werent. and they dont consider it lying, because they consider the time when they were 16 making out with some guy and he touched her boob without her permission to count as being molested.

see, such a huge portion of the female population lies so regularly, that it becomes damn near impossible to trust what any woman is telling you.

so the best thing to do is not to give any weight to whatever sob stories they are telling you and to assess them based simply on their present behavior and whether they add or detract from yoru happiness.

anything else is simply playing captain save a ho.

 

[potato]

Actually I think that women are more likely, then men, to inform their potential mates of shortcomings that they may have, especially something that might drive a man away. It is the woman making sure that the guy is okay with her, and how she is before she invests emotional energy into the guy.

Well then you think wrong. Unless you're talking about deep into the relationship when she thinks the man has enough invested that he won't ditch her when she finds out how much of a nutjob she is.

If she tells you about all her problems right off the bat, chances are she's MUCH crazier than a girl who would break them to you slowly over time.

In every case, with every woman I’ve ever carried on with, once it got to the point where some semblance of a relationship was forming, we had a talk. The talk where we articulated our desire to carry on and to set the ground rules. Always the woman has told me all the issues in her life and in her past that could potentially drive me away, followed with, “Is that okay?”

 

[potato]

It’s claimed that 1/5th of all women were molested or otherwise sexually abused as a child. If you go out with enough women, you are going to encounter one of them. Those who want to just write them off as damaged goods are, in my estimation, incapable of truly understanding women, or humanity for that matter. I am always struck by the number of men who are so interested in getting women, having sex with them, but at the same time incapable or at least unwilling to know or understand a woman at a deeper level. Perhaps that is why some of you have such a hard time with women, you lack that essential whatever that allows one to interrelate with another on anything other than in a most superficial way.

I’ve had a couple of girlfriends who had been molested as children and had to deal with the subsequent emotional problems. It really didn’t affect our relationship other than to accommodate the fact that she will occasionally have a melt down, and to be aware of it, to recognize it, to be sympathetic to it. I’ve never been sucked into another’s depression. Perhaps I just have the fortitude to handle women as they come. It’s like with one’s kids throwing tantrums, good parents just roll with it. Likewise with women, the best men are the ones that can deal with them with a strength of character that prevents their own behavior from being dragged down.

If one understands women then one would see that, as the OP says,

…she confessed that her core desire in her heart has not change since she was a little girl; all she wanted was to be loved, desired and to be made to feel special.

All the philosophizing and psychological analysis about women and the very essence of the relationship women most want goes unnoticed.

If you wan to have lasting relationships with women you have to understand them, not just some woman concept in general but the specific woman of interest. That often requires perhaps things you’d rather not know. It’s not like you’ve lived a perfect life. Part of the essence of a relationship between a man and a woman is in the nurturing and tending to the other’s needs, even their emotional needs.

 

[wayword]

Women with troubled childhoods often develop these conditions and use many psychological tactics to bring out the captain save a ho instinct in men and once the men are emotionally hooked these women cut those men off much like their love was cut off by the people that were supposed to love them when they were children ie their parents or whoever was their caretaker at the time.

What she confinded to you sounds exactly like stories many BPD's have told me when I moderated a forum about it.

Since the conditions make these people pathological liars not all of their stories of woe are true but just simply devices to get attention and sympathy and draw you into their web getting you emotionally caught up thinking you are special because she supposedly "let you in."

To get the attention and love that they did not get as children they'll tell elaborate stories about all of their stalkers who in reality are guys they flirted with and gave their phone numbers to, how bad and awful their cheating ex's were when it was really they that were the cheaters to begin with, and how they are not valued by men as anything other than sex objects when its how they portray themselves to the world but they can't see it.

Very true. Blueblue has TAMPAX written all over him.

"Stalker" is generally chicknese for "dude I've been leading on for months now for attention."

 

[joekerr31]

If you wan to have lasting relationships with women you have to understand them, not just some woman concept in general but the specific woman of interest. That often requires perhaps things you’d rather not know. It’s not like you’ve lived a perfect life. Part of the essence of a relationship between a man and a woman is in the nurturing and tending to the other’s needs, even their emotional needs.

are you a woman? this is what women think is the essence of a relationship.

the real essence is attraction, interest level and the male not being a pathetic AFC all the time.

most women could care less whether you 'understand' them or not - heck most of them assume you never will and actually like that (as it gives them all kinds of excuses for behaving badly). some women i've taken the time to 'understand' and others I hardly gave a sh*t about going deeper with, and the truth is they both behaved all in all the same.

their interest in me had nothing to do with how much i 'empathized' with them - their interest in me was based on the fact that they saw me as a highly valuable male who they were attracted to.

if anything, the women who 'share' the time bongo the clown touch their privates tend to be harder to maintain a relationship with because they start expecting you to give them special treatment because they were 'abused'. and if you don't, if you don't sit there like a good AFC while they have their occasional emotional breakdowns and sh*t all over you, then you're a cold hearted bastard.

anyway, like i say above, i'll hear a woman out, but the past is something we are all suppose to get over, not keep living in. so for all women i judge them by who they are today, not what they have been through in the past.

 

[KontrollerX]

"It’s claimed that 1/5th of all women were molested or otherwise sexually abused as a child. If you go out with enough women, you are going to encounter one of them. Those who want to just write them off as damaged goods are, in my estimation, incapable of truly understanding women, or humanity for that matter."

No, many of the guys that came here had their empathy and emotions stomped on and turned against them by such women who pretended to be hurting to bring out the captain save a ho instinct in that man then once he's in her clutches she runs off with Bob the white trash loser 45 year old plumber and fvcks his brains out while you wonder where all the time you wasted on her went, how to come to terms with all your effort in the relationship being all for nothing and nobody on this earth except other victims of such women even beginning to understand your dilemma and your pain.

In becoming a DJ you learn to not stop caring about people but to look out for yourself first and in so doing you choose to from that point on lead a healthy life and the best way to go about that in addition to diet and exercise is to become as mentally healthy as you can and to associate as much as possible with other mentally healthy people.

A DJ has options so why go for the nut job BPD or the manic depressed case when you can go for a hot normal woman?

It makes no sense, does not compute, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

A DJ doesn't have to give up being an empathic or caring person once he becomes a DJ but women like this with massive problems he should say oh how sad and move on to someone healthy. He doesn't have to insult such a woman or anything like that to make her feel any worse but he only drags his life down by making her and her problems a part of his life when he can easily get someone who has their sh*t together instead.

"I am always struck by the number of men who are so interested in getting women, having sex with them, but at the same time incapable or at least unwilling to know or understand a woman at a deeper level. Perhaps that is why some of you have such a hard time with women, you lack that essential whatever that allows one to interrelate with another on anything other than in a most superficial way."

LOL, the guys who attempt to understand them on a "deeper level" are most often called friends.

"I’ve had a couple of girlfriends who had been molested as children and had to deal with the subsequent emotional problems. It really didn’t affect our relationship other than to accommodate the fact that she will occasionally have a melt down, and to be aware of it, to recognize it, to be sympathetic to it. I’ve never been sucked into another’s depression. Perhaps I just have the fortitude to handle women as they come. It’s like with one’s kids throwing tantrums, good parents just roll with it. Likewise with women, the best men are the ones that can deal with them with a strength of character that prevents their own behavior from being dragged down."

Yeah you had relationships with molested women and they had a melt down and it must of made you feel pretty bad to see that huh?

Why even allow this type of downer in your life if you can get someone healthy instead?

Now you're left with the memories of these chicks crying over the bad stuff that has happened to them that wasn't your problem to deal with.

That may be your cup of tea but its not or no longer the cup of tea of most members of this forum but hey different strokes for different folks.

As for being one of the best men who avoided getting dragged down I really have to say I don't think you ever ran into a BPD or HPD in one of your relationships or else you would know that this best man stuff is false when it comes to them. They can drag anyone down who is not aware that these types of people exist.

"If you wan to have lasting relationships with women you have to understand them, not just some woman concept in general but the specific woman of interest. That often requires perhaps things you’d rather not know. It’s not like you’ve lived a perfect life. Part of the essence of a relationship between a man and a woman is in the nurturing and tending to the other’s needs, even their emotional needs."

The last part of what you said here is true as reciprocity is the key whether you are involved with a nutjob or a normal woman.

A relationship cannot survive or at the very least be healthy without reciprocity and both people giving equally to it.

One person cannot be a taker and selfish or else it will crumble and fall apart over time and many of these damaged women are takers.

 

[wayword]

her core desire in her heart has not change since she was a little girl; all she wanted was to be loved, desired and to be made to feel special.

Why do you act like this Princess Complex is oh-so-noble and touching? Notice how everything here revolves around HER???

An attention diva can never be satisfied. Why? Because the only damn thing she cares about is herself. Basically, she sets herself up as The Prize to have all her whims catered to...while showing absolutely no concern for the welfare of others. Nothing about making her lover or kids happy. Just HER.

And if anything crinkles her nose...and she is not made to feel "special" anymore...look out - it's BYCHTIME! I mean, what the fvck makes her so damn special? Did she discover clean energy or cure HIV? You know, I don't expect to be "made to feel" special...if I want to BE special, I expect to have to distinguish myself and actually EARN/BECOME IT.

My god kid, wake the fawk up!!!

 

[potato]

Yeah you had relationships with molested women and they had a melt down and it must of made you feel pretty bad to see that huh?

Why even allow this type of downer in your life if you can get someone healthy instead?

Now you're left with the memories of these chicks crying over the bad stuff that has happend to them that wasn't your problem to deal with.

That may be your cup of tea but its not or no longer the cup of tea of most members of this forum but hey different strokes for different folks.

As for being one of the best men who avoided getting dragged down I really have to say I don't think you ever ran into a BPD or HPD in one of your relationships or else you would know that this best man crap is false when it comes to them. They can drag anyone down who is not aware that these types of people exist.

You obviously have anger issues due to women who, in your estimation, did you wrong. Does this make you damaged goods? Should all women be advised to avoid getting involved with you?

I had a 7+ year relationship with a woman who had been repeatedly molested as a child. Our relationship was a wonderful one and only ended with her accidental death. Sure, she had serious emotional issues but they weren’t what defined her. She was an engaging, warm, fun person. Her emotional problems faded with age and in the end showed up rarely and usually with something setting her off, like when her cat died or her car broke down.

Our relationship worked because we connected on a very basic level. Often we would just sit and look at each other, smiling, feeling the emotions between us. With no other woman have I been more happy. As her sister and mother used to tell me, being in our strong, stable, happy relationship greatly alleviated whatever residual emotional problems that she had.

Was I being too AFC for you? Was I saving a ho? Only in your delusions

If you want a woman without emotional problems, I think they sell them in a box down at the porn shop.