what do you guys think about marriage?!

[Genghis Juan]

Look, every decision we make in life has a certain amount of risk involved. Small decisions like getting up and driving the car somewhere may lead to an accident where you could get hurt or die. Huge decisions in life like marriage or buying a house may end in divorce or the house becoming a money pit.

If a man wants to raise a family, like most men want to do, the main route is to get married. Unfortunately, according to stats, 60% of the time it doesn't work out for people. Through the dating process and perhaps cohabitation, a couple can find out if they should get married.

But I must say, that both men and women are guilty of letting themselves go after marriage. I attend business school at night, and I can tell you, that most married people (men and women) are in worse physical shape and dress with less style than the single people.

Marriage is a risk you take, but if you want kids, you have to do it. The best you can do, is to find the best woman possible. She may change after marriage...YOU may change after marriage...who knows...

 

[WestCoaster]

You're right, it's a crap shoot

The difference between driving a car, buying a house, or something else is this is a huge LIFE decision. You can get another house and another car. Yes, you can get another wife, but hopefully people don't think like this.

Throw in children, the whole dynamic changes.

I'm just amazed at all the stereotypes and strange assumptions presented here:

* That it's OK to grab a woman by the arm.

* That women won't gain weight if you just tell them not to.

* That single people who have not been married don't take risks or open their hearts. That divorced people have taken more risks and are better mates just because they've failed at a previous relationship.

* That the dating world is simple out there and just why in the heck didn't we get married within a week of meeting a woman, and there are so many good women out there.

Of course it's a crap shoot, but the best thing to do is reduce the risk of marrying a dud. Some of us know the culture that is corrupting American women -- I think it's more culture than the women themselves -- and a lower risk would be to marry a foreigner, or at least a highly refined U.S. woman if you can find one.

 

[Slickster]

Re: You're right, it's a crap shoot

Originally posted by WestCoaster
I'm just amazed at all the stereotypes and strange assumptions presented here:

* That it's OK to grab a woman by the arm.

* That women won't gain weight if you just tell them not to.

Of course it's a crap shoot, but the best thing to do is reduce the risk of marrying a dud. Some of us know the culture that is corrupting American women -- I think it's more culture than the women themselves -- and a lower risk would be to marry a foreigner, or at least a highly refined U.S. woman if you can find one.

Okay WestCoast and Ice Cold,

1. I never said anything about abusing or wife beating so quit exaggerating here people. Although I know you Americans are just crazy about law suits and suing people for everthing and anything so you are probably right. Maybe a better action to deal with your screaming wife would be to pick up a megaphone and scream back in her face. "SHUT THE FVCK UP B!TCH!!!"

I never said anything about hurting your wife. Grabbing her arm to get her attention is far from abuse.

2. I never said you could keep your wife slim by telling her not to get fat either. If you read carefully I suggested that you be very selective about choosing your wife based on her desire to remain healthy, attractive and physically fit. Then I suggested you exercise together.

3. Your idea of marrying a foriegn woman may solve some of your problems but that's not all roses either. A girlfriend of mine is a travel agent. She routinely books single men to other parts of the world and many of them come back with foriegn wives. I live in a small town so you really notice a forty something man walking around with some exotic looking young woman. Funny thing is most of these relationships never last either. Most of the time the chick is just looking for free pass to North America.


Its tough to debate with people who twist your words so I'm just about thru here. I don't think there's much more to say anyway.
I wasn't trying to start a flame war or anything. Just maybe put out a little different view into a topic that is brimming with negativity.

Women. Can't live with 'em. Pass the beer nuts.

OUT

 

[WestCoaster]

When in doubt, go foreign!

Actually, grabbing an arm is a form of abuse, and in this country you can bet it would get to court. And look, I'm not a fan of lawsuits, but American women sure are. In this country that movement will get you some days or weeks in the slammer ... some even a year. I also don't agree with grabbing someone to get their attention.

Yelling something through a megaphone?! Yep, rights to sue, big time. Again, as long as there are whacko judges in this country the U.S. male loses.

As for those older guys with the young foreign brides? More power to them! Yeah, perhaps the relationships don't last ... the relationships with the fat, mean American woman doesn't last either. So pick your poison.

I'll pick the hotty foreigner!

 

[Jay Gatsby]

The best thing to do in dealing with an unpleasant or uncooperative woman is to simply walk away. It takes "two to tango," so she can't fight with you if you're not there.

As for marriage, I believe in it generally, but only if you go into it with your eyes fully open. My preference, and currently my practice with my current girlfriend, is to date someone for 3 years or so before making the decision to get married. By that time, you've probably seen her at her worst. If you still have concerns, at that point, then perhaps she's not the right person to marry. Of course you'll feel like you're throwing away 3 years of your life if you walk away, but it's better to walk away than get married for the sake of not being alone.

The simple truth is that most women want to get married in their mid-to-late 20s, while most men are just coming into their own at that point in their lives. Consequently, following a 5-year age difference rule is probably a good idea. By age 30-35, most men are ready to get married, if they want to get married at all. Subtracting five years from this range leaves women aged 25-30 as an available dating pool. The problem is fitting a 3-year courtship period into that range. Women don't want a long courtship, but they don't mind a long engagement. The former has no guaranty, while the latter, although not legally binding, is a much more difficult situation from which to walk away. A long engagement also gives her plenty of time to show off her ring to family, friends, co-workers, and even perfect strangers, while also giving her plenty of time to plan the perfect wedding.

 

[Crank_It_Up]

Re: Props on the Moroccan

Originally posted by WestCoaster
...ALL married people forget what it's like to date after two years of marriage and coincidentally think it's really easy out there, that all American men or women are just fine, that it's easy, and it should be no problem to find a mate because they did.

Trust me, it's not...

lol, never said it was easy finding a mate, in fact it's very hard... usually the attraction is off balance, that is one person likes the other person more, and this leads to trouble, jealousy, AFC'ism, one person clinging to the other, while the other feels like he/she is suffocating. Rarely is a perfect balance achieved, and if and when you find her, you better grab it before it's gone.

and another thing, your brain doesn't lose all its memory 2 years after marriage... additionally you get to see your kids goin through the trials and tribulations of the dating game.

disregard my opinions if you choose, they are after all, only my humble opinions which are based on my own experiences and those of which I have observed over the course of my life, and could very possibly be off the mark.

 

[WestCoaster]

For Jay Gatsby -- 3 YEARS?!!!

Three years is WAY too long of courtship. If you don't know a woman inside and out after one year, you haven't done your homework, period. Women are NOT that complicated.

Actually after 5-6 months you will know if she has a kind heart, if she values her health and fitness, if she has good wife qualities. Granted, a lot of women change after they get married, but they're going to change after 6 months or after three years. Why in the world would it take 3 long, freakin' years to decide if you want to get married?

And like you said, if it doesn't work out, you've wasted a ton of time. Frankly, there are just too many females out there (granted, in America, most aren't very good) to be wasting three years of time trying to figure it out.

Does it take three years to figure out if your job is good? Does it take you three years to find out if your friends are loyal?

I saw on the AFC site, er, I mean DJ Discussion board, that some young guy had three relationships since 13 years old, each lasting three years or more. First off, he's too young to be such stupid things. Secondly, he's wasting time.

Studies show if people live or date a woman for three years and then finally get married, their chances of staying married are not good. And in turn studies show if you don't live with a woman and marry her after about a year, your chances of staying together are very good.

Now could you please explain to me the benefits of a three-year courtship?! Wow -- what a collossal waste of time!

 

[PuertoRican_Lover]

I am personally not married because of what Westcoaster has delineated in the last 3 pages of this thread. If I marry it will be with a very young woman who knows her place as a female and a wife. She will be spiritually connected and meek and humble with a good heart and of a physically thin toned stature ! Since I live in America and I have these expectations, I will probably never get married!!!

Marriage is a very natural and good process but the women of today have become artificially unnatural in their masculine state of mind and their 'hor' status and thus have become a spoiled and rotten fruit not fit to eat - doing so would only poison you and destroy you from within and without!

 

[dietzcoi]

My 2 cents:

Don't marry!

Don't have kids!

I have done both and niether are what you would think before you do it. They both suck and waste your youth, time, money and energy for NOTHING!

If you want to do it anyway, good luck.

To me, marriage = becoming an AFC automatically. Being a family man, grocery shopping, changing diapers, = AFC automatically. You cannot redefine it.

I was an AFC. I was a WBAFC. I know. I am now cured.

Do not worry about being alone at 45. I am 43 and I am never alone! Stay in shape, earn good $$, and you will have companionship and BETTER SEX than when married. Won't you guys believe somebody who has BEEN THERE???

I wish somebody has told me this when I was 21.

Either learn from me, or suffer the consequences.

Dietzcoi

 

[WestCoaster]

Good post Dietzcoi

I'm not against it, but if everyone thinks I'm exaggerating about the American woman, trust me, I'm not. Yep, most are fairly easy on the eyes -- in their 20's. Really, how many 30 and 40 year olds do you see at the gym? You see a lot of 20 somethings working hard. Once they get their man it's Hostess snacks, soap operas, and b-tching the rest of the way. It's freakin' over!

PRL is right: You probably won't find those qualities in an American woman. You can, but you have to be very, very selective or you'll be stuck with a hag.

I know so many guys who married beneath them because they felt "the time was right." And now they're paying for it with b-tchy, out of shape wives.

Just where I work, I was talking to a young gorgeous Swede yesterday and trust me, it's a different world. She's way too young for me, but she just carries herself different than American women. Other than the fact that she could be a runway model, she is very kind, always has a smile for others, is kind, actually asks questions about other people's lives (a novelty for an American woman!), and is working hard in college. Of course she's back to Sweden once college is done. Oh yeah, she's also a varsity athlete on the tennis team.

That complete package is rarely pulled off in America.

Dietzcoi is right in that marriage breeds AFCism. Like a few of my friends say, "It's worse being alone in a marriage than it is alone being single. You can actually do something if you're lonely and single."

They're right: I can go out on a Saturday night, or hit a movie, or at least try to chat up someone at a coffee shop. They're stuck with an uncomfortable situation.

Would love to get Water Tiger's take on this and American women compared to foreign women. I know, foreign women aren't the complete answer, but if you know it's an upgrade, why not go that route? Nothing is perfect, but if one thing is better, best to opt in that direction.

 

[Crank_It_Up]

Originally posted by dietzcoi
My 2 cents:

Don't marry!

Don't have kids!

I have done both and niether are what you would think before you do it. They both suck and waste your youth, time, money and energy for NOTHING!...

sorry to hear your marriage sucked so badly, but I must say marriage and kids are great... family life is wonderful, but only if you are wise enough to choose the right mate

 

[WestCoaster]

The key is FINDING the right mate

Well, I think you're right as is crank, it can be great if you find the right mate. (I don't think marriage is an "institution" either -- that's a tired cliche. Institutions shouldn't have such horrible success rates.)

The thing is the average male, American and world wide, is not given any tools to choose the right mate. I think this website is one of them, it is godsend in my book. It's the articles and DJ Bible which are great. The message board is just OK as there are a lot of quacks like me posting. :>)

All the relationship books are written from a woman's or AFC (see John Gray) point of view. TV shows and movies portray men as wimps and women say they love that. (wrong!)

Women in this country have no clue what they want. They say they want romance and turn around date and marry the most non-romantic scum they can find. They actually seek out and find this scum. So women's so-called "wisdom" is no good.

Most men have been taught the wrong things so in turn we've become a world full of AFCs, with divorce rates through the roof.

Marriage can be great -- if you find the right mate. I think that is very difficult. From an American point of view it's extremely tough. Most American women are pretty twisted creatures with no clue in what they want for themselves or in a guy. They're just going wherever the wind takes them ... usually it's in some slimeball's bed.

 

[PuertoRican_Lover]

Westcoaster, I see you have adopted this thread as your own - I think you are the only one I know that despises American women as much as me!

Dietzcoi, I know you got bit hard, so I understand your fear. Although I never been bit - I am utterly aware of the pain.

Slickster - many men think they found the "right" woman when they get married, but many times this is based on physical lusts, sex, loneliness, economics and other matters that do not keep a relationship together - thus the high divorce rate.

Marriage is a natural spiritual bond with well-defined roles for each - this bond and these roles must be understood by both parties before they engage in holy matrimony! Today there is matrimony without the 'holy' part - it's become a 'play' thing - a physical union without the spiritual part!! Thus the high divorce rate.

Crank-it-up - tell us why your marriage is "successful"? What factors make it so?

Metal Fortress - Isn't this a forum for males 25 years old and over? How old are you, 19? Trying to learn from those who made their mistakes already hey?

If you learn anything from the wise, know this - the problem with the youth is that most don't learn from others because they always think their woman or situation is "different"! Well guess what? IT"S NOT - IT'S SYSTEMIC!!! Nature is consistent and we are creatures of nature!


I rather be single than to be with a woman that is not true to her feminine nature and doesn't exhibit womanly qualities. As I stated in my thread "The natural order of things" - women should be complementary in form and mind to men so that there may be a natural harmonic balance in the relationship!

American women have been corrupted from their true feminine selves and have taken on masculine traits; thus in time there will be an inevitable clash with the male. The only way for the male to avoid such a conflict in marriage is to become untrue to his natural male mindset and become submissive to her demands and supplicate for her affection!

I'll never bow down to a woman nor relinquish my power as a man by being other than the head of the household! I will however, sacrifice all that I have for a worthy humble woman that is the mother of my children and my wife formed by way of a spiritual bond.

 

[dietzcoi]

MetalFortress, you are exactly correct and I hope you really are learning. Like I said, nothing like this existed for me when I was your age.... nothing! Just AFC hollywood like "An Officer and a Gentleman" - what tripe!!

You think I am passing the buck, well I take responsibility for my AFC actions back then. I am just warning the rest of you. But I think 99% of young men will be stupid just as PRL has stated.

Westcoaster... thanks for the support as always. Yound guys will be idealistic... it is their nature. It is my nature to try to save them from their own stupidity...

PRL - Thanks to you too. Be happy you avoided my fate. I can assure you you are better off than I am. One of my best friends is single, never married, and seems to regret it. I am constantly convincing him that his $1 million in the bank and life of ease is nothing to regret... but the grass is always greener I guess. I am afraid he is sliding to AFCism due to loneliness, even though he is 45 years old...

Whoever has not been through what I have been, don't hate! Crank it up, I am glad you picked the right woman. (A morrocan... not really comparable to Western women, is it?) You are in the 25% who did. The rest are divorced or unhappy. I do not consider betting half your net worth on a 25% chance worth it. But you won! So just like the guy who wins in Las Vegas, you assume it is easy and all should win. But all cannot win. There are not that many good women in our society!!

Good Luck

Dietzcoi

 

[WaterTiger]

Re: Good post Dietzcoi

Originally posted by WestCoaster

Would love to get Water Tiger's take on this and American women compared to foreign women. I know, foreign women aren't the complete answer, but if you know it's an upgrade, why not go that route? Nothing is perfect, but if one thing is better, best to opt in that direction.

Water Tiger thinks you've got your mind made up about the situation and it hurts to bang her head against a wall.

I do agree with your closing line. "Nothing is perfect but if one thing is better, best to opt in that direction." It's the difference in what we personally deem "better" that prompts us to choose that direction where we hope happiness lies.

 

[WestCoaster]

More stuff

To Water Tiger: Have you been married, and if so (or if you're currently married), how is that working for you? What were your criteria in choosing a mate? If you got out of a marriage, why? What disolved it? Also, from a woman's point of view, do you see a lot of quality American women out there? This isn't a loaded question, I'm serious because I'm not seeing that many. I'm seeing some good looking ones on the outside, but not very many good ones on the inside ... and it gets worse every year.

To Dietcozi: Great stuff, and I would have to agree with you that marriage isn't all it's cracked up to be. I have a good model in my parents, but most of my friends are freakin' miserable ... and they're good guys, who are successful. Their wives are taking them for granted big time. Of course all of their wives are American women. And you're right: There was NOTHING like sosuave back in the day to tell us how to get it done. It was ALL AFC. Most of the material out there still is AFC, unfortunately.

PRL: Keep up the good stuff. I'm glad you've seen the light on U.S. women. Too bad most men in this country haven't seen this. Like one site says: The only reason most men think American women are good is because they're driving a Ford Escort (U.S. women) and have never driven a sportscar (foreign women). They have no reference point!

Keep up the good stuff folks (that includes you Water Tiger!).

 

[Crank_It_Up]

Originally posted by dietzcoi
...Crank it up, I am glad you picked the right woman. (A morrocan... not really comparable to Western women, is it?) You are in the 25% who did. The rest are divorced or unhappy. I do not consider betting half your net worth on a 25% chance worth it. But you won! So just like the guy who wins in Las Vegas, you assume it is easy and all should win. But all cannot win. There are not that many good women in our society!!

Good Luck

Dietzcoi

the fact that many marriages fail is not merely the fault of the female involved

my wife, although moraccan, was raised by american missionaries in morocco, and has spent most of her life in the USA, so she is as western as you or I.

As I said before, marriage and family life are great, but you have to pick the right partner. First, date/fvck lots of women so you know what the important qualities in a woman are. You also need to develop/experience life, women, and relationships in general. Become a student of human nature and be able perceive these traits which are important to you in the women who have them. The rest is easy.

 

[WestCoaster]

Great stuff crank

Originally posted by Crank_It_Up
the fact As I said before, marriage and family life are great, but you have to pick the right partner. First, date/fvck lots of women so you know what the important qualities in a woman are. You also need to develop/experience life, women, and relationships in general. Become a student of human nature and be able perceive these traits which are important to you in the women who have them. The rest is easy.

Hey, I think I learned (finally) how to use the quote button!

Anyway, great post about dating (and other things) lots of women. Sounds like to me, Crank, that you actually had a process of picking a mate.

See, that's the problem I've been harping on forever on this site -- only to fall on deaf ears by most AFCs on the main board.

Most people spend more time shopping for clothes or a car then "shopping" for a woman. They have no set parimeters in what they want in a woman. They have no idea.

A man's "marriage clock" is almost as bad as a woman's biological clock. I'd say about 90 percent of my friends got married because "it was time" not necessarily because the perfect woman walked into their lives. And now 90 percent are miserable. Well, maybe 70 percent, not 90.

It's absolutely crucial one dates like crazy as a single guy to find out what he wants. Some AFC on the main board had three girl friends of 3 or more years by the time he was 21! WHAT AN AFC!

Date, date, date, go nuts. If you have a girlfriend longer than a year it's a complete waste of time, IMO. You know a person after a year and know whether they're marriage material or not. If not, move on.

Living together is also a waste, IMO. All my friends who lived together are either struggling with their marriage or divorced. Better to be a playboy than locked into that false sense of commitment.

 

[sky]

If U.S. women heard it like this from one of their own on a regular basis, we might be able to turn some of this behavior around.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=81146

Print it out for your girl, wife, sister, friend...start making the world a better place.

 

[Crank_It_Up]

Re: Great stuff crank

Originally posted by WestCoaster
Hey, I think I learned (finally) how to use the quote button!

Anyway, great post about dating (and other things) lots of women. Sounds like to me, Crank, that you actually had a process of picking a mate.

See, that's the problem I've been harping on forever on this site -- only to fall on deaf ears by most AFCs on the main board.

Most people spend more time shopping for clothes or a car then "shopping" for a woman. They have no set parimeters in what they want in a woman. They have no idea.

A man's "marriage clock" is almost as bad as a woman's biological clock. I'd say about 90 percent of my friends got married because "it was time" not necessarily because the perfect woman walked into their lives. And now 90 percent are miserable. Well, maybe 70 percent, not 90.

It's absolutely crucial one dates like crazy as a single guy to find out what he wants. Some AFC on the main board had three girl friends of 3 or more years by the time he was 21! WHAT AN AFC!

Date, date, date, go nuts. If you have a girlfriend longer than a year it's a complete waste of time, IMO. You know a person after a year and know whether they're marriage material or not. If not, move on.

Living together is also a waste, IMO. All my friends who lived together are either struggling with their marriage or divorced. Better to be a playboy than locked into that false sense of commitment.

glad you liked it.... here's a bit more

I would have married my high school sweetheart but luckily for the both of us, she thought she could do better, and wanted to date around while we were apart (we went to different colleges which was another sore subject) So I nexted her back in 1975, even without the help of the dj bible, lol. Anyway, for the next 5 years, I was a playboy and made up for lost time, except for a 2 year relationship with a hot Italian girl that I almost married. But since I thought I could do better, it never happened. I pretty much lived in the clubs, went out 5 nghts a week, with friends or by myself. I was always more successful by myself. I was a tall, good looking smart ass, that picked up on dancing, and the clubs became my playground. Amazing how little sleep a horny guy really needs.

My mom actually warned me that casual sex had a drawback, in that it was hard to stop once you got married. As usual, I shrugged off her advice, but she hit the nail on the head on that one.

After a while, it becomes boring, and I wanted something more. The search for Ms Right took precedent over the search for Ms Hot in bed. I tried to work fast. If I didn't get laid on the first night, I wasn't getting laid period, cause I wouldn't bother with a second date if I didn't like the girl. I became a nexting fool, with a trail of broken hearts behind me, sometimes mine, but the great majority were theirs. All is fair in love and war, and it was war baby.

Anyway, I had moved to Houston, continued clubbing for a year or so when I started dating a tiny asian who was 8 years my senior... a month into that relationship I decided I could trade up and it was back to the clubs which is where I met my wife. I had walked up the steps so I could view the entire club to see where the hottest females were. I always start at the top and work down, when I felt somebody tap me on the shoulder. We were married 9 days later, I sh1t you not.

Lucky? Perhaps, but in our case, we had both had a lot of experience dating/fvucking and knew what we wanted. We're still crazy about each other some 23 years later.

Would I recommend getting married so quickly to anyone else? No, but for us it worked. At that point in our lives there were no games played, no rules followed, no lines, no bullsh1t, just the plain truth. It was "here I am, this is me, like it or hit the gate, and if I don't like you, I'll hit the gate".

Kids in high school today get too serious too soon. I used to ask my daughter if she was gonna marry her boyfriends in high school. She'd always say, "of course not". To which I would reply, well if you can't date around now, at what point in your life can you?