We Are Straying from the Path that was Laid out Before Us

[steviecruiser]

I get a fcking head ache reading all this pretentious fancy jargon most of you post. Keep it simple

Morals are necessary for the world to remain in order. However we are all human and subject to sin.

 

[LeftyLoosey]

Okay, okay... no no no... wait, yeah... okay, okay, I think I got it.

SO... I can't disagree with Rollo's argument that at the end of the day, all of our so-called morally driven aspirations are rooted in the biological imperative that drives us.

Therefore, Mr. Str8up, let me offer the following:

PERHAPS, if men choose a path that APPEARS to be that of the AFC (i.e., not cheating, not sleeping with married women, not sleeping with nasty women), while maintaining and possessing the wisdom of the DJ, at the end of the day, it will likely result in men achieving GREATER status and acceptance by society, and access to a better selection of the female gene pool with which he can mix his seed.

What I'm suggesting is that if you make yourself into the good neighbour that society wants you to be while avoiding the traps (marriage, etc.), in the end you will obtain more of what it was you wanted in the first place.

Shall we call this a truce? :flowers:

 

[steviecruiser]

Okay, okay... no no no... wait, yeah... okay, okay, I think I got it.

SO... I can't disagree with Rollo's argument that at the end of the day, all of our so-called morally driven aspirations are rooted in the biological imperative that drives us.

Therefore, Mr. Str8up, let me offer the following:

PERHAPS, if men choose a path that APPEARS to be that of the AFC (i.e., not cheating, not sleeping with married women, not sleeping with nasty women), while maintaining and possessing the wisdom of the DJ, at the end of the day, it will likely result in men achieving GREATER status and acceptance by society, and access to a better selection of the female gene pool with which he can mix his seed.

What I'm suggesting is that if you make yourself into the good neighbour that society wants you to be while avoiding the traps (marriage, etc.), in the end you will obtain more of what it was you wanted in the first place.

Shall we call this a truce? :flowers:

If anybody ever needed a slap across the face it would be you. STFU!

 

[WestCoaster]

Westcoaster wrote:



However, you seem to know from personal experience how these concepts 'did not pay off' for you.
I was wondering if you could elaborate on how these things Lefty is talking about, which I emphasized (hopefully Im getting the gist of what is being implied), which you disagree with and how it 'didnt pay off'.
Didnt pay off in getting , achieving, or being what exactly?

It didn't pay off for me in relationships, career, moving forward. Every time I've focused or built my life around a woman, it's failed, period. By the way, I don't sleep with married women, and when I have a serious girlfriend, I don't play around on her either.

Lefty's post talked about reforming women and the only way they'll shape up is if men do. That's the biggest bunch of B.S. I've ever read.

Women do what they want to do when they want to do it. I've known many Christian women who were very quick to jump into bed with the first thing because, well, they had a bad day at the office, a bad hair day, or because it felt good.

This whole, "We can change the world" with our morality is just a crock.

They key isn't going on some path or trying to change the world. The key is finding yourself with your personality, your career, and yes, your woman. You pick the right career, you live how you feel comfortable (hopefully that doesn't mean hurting others), and finally the key to getting the right one isn't to try and transform her through your own morality, but by PICKING THE RIGHT WOMAN.

Most people's personalities -- their morality, especially -- is pretty imbedded by their teenage years. Yes, many people have change themselves, but many more have not. I'd say less than 1 percent of all society has made dramatic personality changes in their lives.

The key is for the man live his life full of confidence and living his life right. Trying to change the world or women through some moral path taken is frankly hilarious.

 

[Trader]

Lefty's post talked about reforming women and the only way they'll shape up is if men do. That's the biggest bunch of B.S. I've ever read.

Women do what they want to do when they want to do it. I've known many Christian women who were very quick to jump into bed with the first thing because, well, they had a bad day at the office, a bad hair day, or because it felt good.

This whole, "We can change the world" with our morality is just a crock.

They key isn't going on some path or trying to change the world. The key is finding yourself with your personality, your career, and yes, your woman. You pick the right career, you live how you feel comfortable (hopefully that doesn't mean hurting others), and finally the key to getting the right one isn't to try and transform her through your own morality, but by PICKING THE RIGHT WOMAN.

Most people's personalities -- their morality, especially -- is pretty imbedded by their teenage years. Yes, many people have change themselves, but many more have not. I'd say less than 1 percent of all society has made dramatic personality changes in their lives.

The key is for the man live his life full of confidence and living his life right. Trying to change the world or women through some moral path taken is frankly hilarious.

What's funny is how some Don Juans harp on and on about the POWER you have when you *set the frame* and *lead the girl* when it comes to things like making the first move, asking for her number, planning dates

But when it comes to leading the girl in a moral capacity - it's always: 'Oh you can't lead the girl when it comes to MORALITY, it's impossible, you are POWERLESS.'

What a cop out - this is frankly hilarious

 

[Interceptor]

It didn't pay off for me in relationships, career, moving forward. Every time I've focused or built my life around a woman, it's failed, period. By the way, I don't sleep with married women, and when I have a serious girlfriend, I don't play around on her either.

Lefty's post talked about reforming women and the only way they'll shape up is if men do. That's the biggest bunch of B.S. I've ever read.

Women do what they want to do when they want to do it. I've known many Christian women who were very quick to jump into bed with the first thing because, well, they had a bad day at the office, a bad hair day, or because it felt good.

This whole, "We can change the world" with our morality is just a crock.

They key isn't going on some path or trying to change the world. The key is finding yourself with your personality, your career, and yes, your woman. You pick the right career, you live how you feel comfortable (hopefully that doesn't mean hurting others), and finally the key to getting the right one isn't to try and transform her through your own morality, but by PICKING THE RIGHT WOMAN.

Most people's personalities -- their morality, especially -- is pretty imbedded by their teenage years. Yes, many people have change themselves, but many more have not. I'd say less than 1 percent of all society has made dramatic personality changes in their lives.

The key is for the man live his life full of confidence and living his life right. Trying to change the world or women through some moral path taken is frankly hilarious.

Hey, man, just saw this.
Thanks for taking the time to share your experience and your insight.
I appreciate it.
Good luck to you , brother.

 

[Interceptor]

What's funny is how some Don Juans harp on and on about the POWER you have when you *set the frame* and *lead the girl* when it comes to things like making the first move, asking for her number, planning dates

But when it comes to leading the girl in a moral capacity - it's always: 'Oh you can't lead the girl when it comes to MORALITY, it's impossible, you are POWERLESS.'

What a cop out - this is frankly hilarious

These are some good points.

The thing is that we have to factor in that a LOT of women simply dont care to be Led to more positive things. In other words, you cant make a housewife out of a ho.
These types of women are more than likely NOT in love with any man they choose to partner with. There's probably strong attraction, but not love.
That means she isnt capable at that time to be led by the man's actions, words, deeds, and Values. She cant.
So he may set a great example, but that doesnt guarantee that she WILL follow it.
Its the old adage about leading the horse to water.

We all have free will.

And if it doesnt jive with her nature , it just wont happen.

There has to be strong love from that woman to really follow that man's example. And more importantly, there has to be trust.
Those types of women will not allow themselves to trust any man.
No matter if he's a bad boy or afc or anything in between.

If she doesnt value morals, and ethical behavior, and has a scarcity mentality,she will not let herself surrender to him nor to his values.

Sure, we teach others how to treat us.

Sure, we all deserve respect and ideally, shouldnt be treated poorly as if we are beneath another.
And we want to be appreciated for who we are.

All thats well and good, but it does NOT mean that it WILL happen in the real world. At some point we must accept that others are the ones responsible for their behavior, not us.


You can have very high self esteem and self respect and dignity, and have high status, and you can still be looked upon as somehow inferior or inadequate, or not appreciated for who you are......basically, not even "SEEN" by others...
but thats life.
Many times people cant recognize in others what they dont possess.
They cant give what they dont have.


This is why the idea of choosing people who resonate with your beliefs and values is really the only choice.

And try as one might, some people will not choose one's values if they themselves have no (perhaps irrationally perceived) use for it.

 

[WestCoaster]

Women are always trying to "change" men. Frankly, I don't want to be changed and I don't want to change the women I date. I like them for who they are and for the person I met. Why would I want to change someone I was attracted to? So I can not be attracted to them?

Baloney.

You can't change them one way or another, for bad or good. Correct on the free will part by interceptor. Trader appears to be offended by the pick-up artists here. Actually, the women are using their free will to be picked up. The one's who don't want to go that route, don't get picked up. No man is forcing them to do anything.

Trader also read it wrong in setting dates and making the first moves and so forth. That's just basic tenants of society that have been with us for years. No one is changing anyone on anything there. Reminds me of a comedian I saw on the Tonight Show. He said, "In the old days, the man asked out the woman. Now that women are more liberated and free ... the men ask out the women."

People's habits and personalities are pretty set by the time they're adults. This is the mature man forum after all. If people want to whine about morality and endorse this AFCism (disguised as morality), have a fun life.

 

[WestCoaster]

I have said this many times before, but it isn't WOMEN who are romantic fools, it is MEN. As we all know, women TALK about how they want flowers and poetry and "I love you!" 20 times a day, but what happens when you give that to them? BLAM! They are REPULSED by your mere presence.

Good stuff STR8UP ... A few stories here:

In college, my extreme-AFC days, first real gf (high school barely counted), dumped me for another guy. I tried to prove to her that I could win her back. I got her a flower ... she thought I was a fool. And I was. She couldn't understand my actions ... looking back, neither can I.

Part 2: A late, great friend of mine getting dumped, trashed, treated like crap. Great artist, painted this gal a picture, wrote her what I thought was a thoughtful, decent letter to clear the air. She fires pack a 3-page letter telling my friend that he is the biggest game player she knew. He wasn't and that beyotch shouldn't have been allowed to walk on the same soil as my friend. Lesson learned ... my friend started playing the field like no tomorrow and he got a lot of women. When he succumbed back into his AFC state a few times, he got treated like dirt ... though his intentions were right, and I guess for some here, "moral."

Part 3: Another guy I knew put flowers in a guitar case and sang outside her window ... I'm not making this up. She later ran into his best friend and said, "What's with Charlie (or whatever his name was), he got all weird with his guitar and flowers the other night." Not only did she not respect the romeo with the guitar, she had the audacity to trash him to his best friend! (Now just who is "moral" here?)

Why did I, my friend, and the other dude go down this sorry a$$ path? Because of AFC programming. There was no sosuave.com back then, heck, no internet.

So for those who try to drill this b.s. into my head, pleeeeeeease.

 

[guru1000]

This is why the idea of choosing people who resonate with your beliefs and values is really the only choice.

And try as one might, some people will not choose one's values if they themselves have no (perhaps irrationally perceived) use for it.

Alas!

YOU attract what YOU represent.

When one is in a constant state of hypocrisy (Desiring what he does not represent), he will be surrounded by inflexible women.

Compatibility is the mother of flexibility. As a result, men who stand for nothing find exactly that , nothing (worthwhile). It is foolish for a man to believe a partner should possess the qualities that he himself cannot fathom.

 

[LeftyLoosey]

I love how my OP has magically been translated into "you should be an AFC."

This is like some kind of surreal telephone game.

 

[LeftyLoosey]

I'm just gonna go ahead and reply to my own thread, almost exactly a year to the day later.

I find it amazing how every time I think I finally understand what it is to be AFC, and think that I'm no longer such a man, I come out and say or do something so AFC that it's hard to believe I've made any progress at all.

I understand now why a lot of you have gone off to another forum. People like me are doing a grave disservice to those who are trying to become DJs.

Thank you Rollo, WestCoaster, Str8up, and the others; you're on the ball.

To Iqqi, VU, Interceptor, and those of you who supported me, I appreciate it, but I'm way off base with my OP and follow-up posts. I'm not going to get into the details; I think this thread covers it.