Unplugging

[Lexington]

I don't think there was an "ah ha" moment for me.With these AFC-transformation stories as with many other stories, people like to point to a single moment. But really, it's often a gradual process.

Even if you consciously accept the principles of "game," it may take a while before you can subconsciously internalize them and undo the programming you have received over many years.

The grief analogy works well in that most people don't get over their grief at an instant.....one day they just realize that they don't feel so sad anymore and that they've moved on.

You've reached the acceptance phase when you simply accept this new found knowledge as a fact and don't carry a strong emotional reaction to it. It's kinda like how you simply accept the law of gravity.

 

[zekko]

seriously old man.

get over it.

this is fashionable nowadays and you can't change it

haha

Do you honestly think there is some sort of cultural pressure out there on men to not be confident? If so, the paranoia around here has reached critical levels.

Go read the most mainstream (read: "matrix") dating advice for men that you can find, preferably written by women (the most "matrix" you can get). The first thing any of them will tell you is to be confident.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

1998: "Just be yourself, and the right ONE will come along."

2008: "Just be confident, and the right ONE will come along."

 

[Warrior74]

I've always been the kid who asked to many questions and called bullsh1t. It got me kicked out of bible study. It got me in trouble in catholic school. It got me sent to the principles office. It got me countless beatings from my dad. It got me branded as "smart but difficult", it got girls interested in me and later made them hate me. I always tried to fall in love but usually it was just lust and betatude, I knew what I was being fed was BS but I wanted to believe. I saw my parents have a loving relationship that has lasted for 40+ years. I wanted that for myself. I would be a player until I got a girlfriend and then I would beta out after a while thinking the game was over. It took my ex threatening to take my daughter away and raping me for child support to finally say, enough. I realized that when I get in a relationship I give up all of my power. My Dad doesn't do that at all. Now I focus on getting money and having a fun life. Women are never to be taken seriously again. Of course now I'm so busy with work that I don't have time for them.

 

[zekko]

1998: "Just be yourself, and the right ONE will come along."

2008: "Just be confident, and the right ONE will come along."

How can you be so against monogamy when you're married?
You may be the only guy on here that hasn't been divorced (but has been married).

Women in general are probably more relationship-seeking than men (although you did point out that men are romantic than women). But obviously not all female interactions with men are seeking monogamistic commitments from them. One of the quickest ways to turn a woman off is for a guy to seek a commitment from a girl before she decides she wants one.

I've always been the kid who asked to many questions and called bullsh1t. It got me kicked out of bible study. It got me in trouble in catholic school. It got me sent to the principles office. It got me countless beatings from my dad.

I think it may get me kicked out of pickup school.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

How can you be so against monogamy when you're married?
You may be the only guy on here that hasn't been divorced (but has been married).

As I've stated in countless threads, I'm not anti-marriage. I'm anti-never-saw-it-coming-WTF-just-happened?-pollyanna-marriage. I'm not even anti-monogamy per se, I'm just anti-monogamy-pre-thirty-years-old. Nowadays men don't become Men until they're 30 as it is. Too many guys commit to a raw deal because they think they wont ever be able to do better than what they've got, get married in their 20s (or, God forbid, late teens), and then the revelation hits them in their 30's; it's actually men who have the long term, slow-mature sexual value. But they're stuck and because they never allowed themselves to have the opportunity to experience the multiple STRs and LTRs and ONSs, or even opening their minds to Game, they retard their maturity as an adult.

I got married at 28. Before that I'd been in 3 LTRs, and banged over 40 women in various STRs or ONSs all in the pre-internet 'community' era. I'm not stating this to say I did everything right; in fact most of I did a lot wrong, but if I come off as anti-monogamy it's only to serve as a warning from my own experience and the years of countless stories from guys I've counseled or friends who's lives I've seen destroyed because they clung (and still cling to) pollyanna disney notions of romance and crippling ONEitis.

Women in general are probably more relationship-seeking than men (although you did point out that men are romantic than women). But obviously not all female interactions with men are seeking monogamistic commitments from them. One of the quickest ways to turn a woman off is for a guy to seek a commitment from a girl before she decides she wants onel.

Did you not read this?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1353345/Men-want-married-just-women.html

 

[Warrior74]

Well since we are posting articles about unplugging and dating...how's this for ya.

http://nyc.barstoolsports.com/rando...e-also-getting-laid-more-ill-take-that-trade/

Relationship power is moving in men’s favor — instead of U.S. men competing for women, women say they must compete for men, researchers say. Mark Regnerus and Jeremy Uecker, sociologists at the University of Texas at Austin, describe the “price of sex” as the cost of romance, status, stability and commitment that men exchange for access to sex in a relationship. The researchers say despite women’s success in getting an education and careers, contemporary relationships are becoming more male-centered than ever, with men gaining access to sex earlier and more often, yet providing fewer and later commitments than one generation ago.

I think I speak for most men when I say the only reason you go to school or get a job is to be able to make money so that chicks will want to F you, right? Like you need to have money so that you can pay for a place to live and buy all the **** that chicks like. But now you’re telling me I don’t even need to do that? Thats incredible news. I can just sit on my ass and not be educated or employed simply because all the other dudes in the world are doing that too and chicks will just be forced to settle. AND apparently I’ll have the upper hand in the relationship too? Outstanding. Its like the Costanza Effect.

What a disaster this is for chicks. In the spectacularly long list of **** that ****ing SUCKS for chicks, the one thing they had going for them is that it was perfectly acceptable and encouraged to just become housewives and have a dude make all the money and pay for their entire lives. That was a pretty sweet gig, no? Sure you gotta churn babies out and you go through menopause and periods and all sorts of weird **** like that, but at the end of the day you never really needed to work or anything because the guy would take care of that. But not anymore I guess. Now they just have to settle for my educationally and economically stalled ass. All because you’re afraid the next guy might even be dumber and more poor than I am.

Even though I promise you he won’t be.

 

[jophil28]

Women in general are probably more relationship-seeking than men (although you did point out that men are romantic than women). But obviously not all female interactions with men are seeking monogamistic commitments from them. One of the quickest ways to turn a woman off is for a guy to seek a commitment from a girl before she decides she wants one.

I would agree with Zeek on that point speaking from past observations and experience..
I think that men of our age ( 50+) have grown up with women who wanted "committment" often as a precedent to marriage.

Perhaps times have changed but I doubt it somehow.

I am disinclined to believe the conclusions of a study based on what women say.

 

[Jitterbug]

Do you honestly think there is some sort of cultural pressure out there on men to not be confident? If so, the paranoia around here has reached critical levels.

Go read the most mainstream (read: "matrix") dating advice for men that you can find, preferably written by women (the most "matrix" you can get). The first thing any of them will tell you is to be confident.

Joking aside...

zekko, modern Western society seeks to undermine the confidence building process for boys and demonise masculinity every change it gets. This isn't paranoia, this is very real. Boys are punished and even drugged in school for any display of masculinity or male energy. If you don't know about this, you've had your head buried in the sands for too long. Considering that it is your generation and older who dropped the ball on raising boys to become men and pushing back against the feminist agenda, you talking down on the younger generations on this topic is not acceptable.

For the vast majority of boys and young men, confidence isn't something you pull out of your arse. It is something you build up through nurturing, training and achieving successes. The ones who can be confident out of nothing are called narcissists or psychopaths.

Confidence has been hijacked by the feminine through the entire school system. When boys are taught to be "confident", it is not the same as what you used to know. They are either misled or discouraged in the areas they should build up their confidence on. They are not told to "not be confident" but whenever they show masculine confidence, they are punished for it. The cultural pressure on young males is for them to be compliant, not "not confident".

A little bit of reading on this topic will be nice. This is a good start for you: http://www.amazon.com/War-Against-Boys-Misguided-Feminism/dp/0684849569

 

[Boilermaker]

Do you honestly think there is some sort of cultural pressure out there on men to not be confident? If so, the paranoia around here has reached critical levels.

Go read the most mainstream (read: "matrix") dating advice for men that you can find, preferably written by women (the most "matrix" you can get). The first thing any of them will tell you is to be confident.

Zekko, ever heard of the Egg of Columbus?

This is exactly what you are trying to do. I understand that being a heavyweight, and a senior member make you some sort of an authority here ( and I respect that and I value your opinions), but you should quit trying to convince us that there's no conditioning, and that a reasonable man can figure this all out by himself.

I am sorry, but that's simply not true. Your argument collapses against a multitude of contrary evidence. The average male pays ten times more attention when he chooses his toilet paper in WalMart than he does while choosing his wife. I don't know how things were back in your time, but this is what ALL of us see around us. Constantly. Men have become "fatalistic" leaving their romantic endeavors to the hands of fate, on the other hand women are optimizing to the sixth order when they choose their life partner. There's a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE between these processes. And it's not that us, men are stupid. We are just socially programmed to be captain-save-a-ho's, white knights, gentlemen, and nice guys.

There's a matrix. And some of us have really had the privilege of "unplugging". If this is sounding ridiculous to you, just observe the young men around you. You will see it, too.

Don't try to summarize the whole anti-matrix philosophy in one cliche ( like be confident) because that really misses the point.

 

[jophil28]

Considering that it is your generation and older who dropped the ball on raising boys to become men and pushing back against the feminist agenda, you talking down on the younger generations on this topic is not acceptable.

Zeek, Jitter does make a good point here ^.
I have no children and have therefore not raised any pvssified young males , but I have witnessed most of my contemporaries hand over the parenting of their sons to their wives. These would be the same wives who were excitedly buying and reading Cosmo and watching Oprah spreading the "women are powerful " gospel.

The results of all that are demonstrably dismal when we observe young men, raised by their mothers, attempting to enter adulthood in a fog of gender confusion..

 

[romangod]

. Considering that it is your generation and older who dropped the ball on raising boys to become men and pushing back against the feminist agenda, you talking down on the younger generations on this topic is not acceptable.

This quote from Jitter jumped off the page at me, also. He hit the nail on the head and said what I've always been thinking.


I don't have kids and I don't plan on having any. Part of it is selfishness and the other part is the realization that I don't want to raise a child in today's "matrix". I think I'm doing the kid and myself a favor.

I see it all the time among my friends and it eats away at me. It's not my place to say anything unless they ask but many are raising manginas and girly-men that have no respect for their weak fathers.

One friend, who is all meat man was worried about his son's schooling. His son's school didn't have one male teacher and the principal was also a female. He complained to her and she responded with arrogant feminist claptrap. This hit him over the head like a sledge hammer and he finally realized what he was up against. It was a rude awakening.


I have many other examples but I can't be bothered. There is a "matrix" out there and the ones that deny it have already been assimilated.


Cheers!

 

[zekko]

Western society seeks to undermine the confidence building process for boys and demonise masculinity every change it gets. This isn't paranoia, this is very real. Boys are punished and even drugged in school for any display of masculinity or male energy.

I agree that male confidence can be affected by this. I don't think the goal with Ritalin and stuff like that is to suppress male confidence. It's more lazy parenting IMO. Aggressive behaviors in schools obviously has to be limited, and unfortunately discipline is no longer allowed. So they have to resort to the drugs instead. While feminism is a factor, the problem goes way deeper than that.

Considering that it is your generation and older who dropped the ball on raising boys to become men and pushing back against the feminist agenda, you talking down on the younger generations on this topic is not acceptable

I don't have any kids, but you're right about my generation's failures. It was not my intent to talk down to the younger folk.

The average male pays ten times more attention when he chooses his toilet paper in WalMart than he does while choosing his wife

Whose fault is that? If 90% of women are low quality, it sounds like 90% of men are low quality also if they aren't picking their wives with any more care than their toilet paper.

I understand that being a heavyweight, and a senior member make you some sort of an authority here

The only authority here is Rollo. I haven't even been here that long. I just like to post a lot.

you should quit trying to convince us that there's no conditioning, and that a reasonable man can figure this all out by himself.

I have never said there is no social conditioning, obviously there is. I was just saying I don't care for the term "matrix". It's more of a personal pet peeve than anything else. I think the people that don't like the term "alpha" are a little silly, so I'm probably being just as silly not liking the term "matrix". I thought it was a decent movie, but for movies that the pickup community have adopted, I'd rather watch Fight Club.

I didn't say a reasonable man would figure ALL of this out, I said a reasonable man should be able to figure MOST of this out. IF you live long enough, anyway. The benefit of this forum is that it is based on real life experiences. All this pickup advice is the sum of people's experiences. I don't see it as something someone invented - that's why I haven't seen very much new here. Most of it is compiled from years of experience that people have had.

Notice that the older guys here have said there was no "epiphany" for them. That's because they had lived long enough to make their own mistakes and learn a lot of these lessons on their own. The value of the forum is you can see the mistakes other people made and avoid them. For the older guys the forum may have brought a few new ideas, but mostly probably crystalized things they already knew, or suspected, and allowed them to see things more clearly.

There's a matrix. And some of us have really had the privilege of "unplugging". If this is sounding ridiculous to you, just observe the young men around you. You will see it, too.

I agree there is a metaphorical matrix, the social conditioning and all. I'm saying there is no LITERAL matrix. This is the real world we live in. It just happens to be full of a lot of crummy ideas, and not all of those crummy ideas are feminist. It is what it is. There is no artificial reality that's preventing you from living in the real world. You're in the real world. It just so happens that the real world sucks.

When I see too much emphasis on the matrix metaphor, it sounds to me like guys are trying to take up a victim mentality (we are the victims of evil women and their beta men). That's probably another reason I don't like it.

I also admit I'm a little envious of you guys who have had some sort of revelation-type experience (unplugging, I guess you'd call it). See, when I first started getting into the seduction community, there seemed to be a lot of promise to it. Promise of revelations and such. But they haven't really materialized. I think you'd have to be a younger fellow for it to have that type of effect on you.

For instance, what's the first thing they tell you when you come here? Get in the gym. I've been lifting weights for over 25 years, and I was very fit and physically active before that. So no revelation there. I find that's been reflective of much of my experience here.
I don't think that makes me special, I've just been around awhile. A lot of guys come to the conclusion that they should workout without having to come to a pickup forum.

 

[C-quenced]

I reached acceptance a few times but mostly find myself running up and down throughout that list. It's a never ending cycle for me.

 

[jophil28]

I was listening to late night Talkback radio in the background last night and I believe I heard the presenter refer to a recent study on why and how women are attracted to certain male behaviors .
The study was by someone at Harvard no less.

The short of it was that the results revealed that women are indeed attracted to men who often treat them with indifference and withhold their feelings.. men about whom she is unsure. The study found that women's interest level rises when she is unsure of his feelings towards her.. The presenter then revealed his own matrix membership by expressing disbelief and said, "I would have thought the exact opposite was true."
He then invited male listeners to call in with their opinions . Several guys did and their opinions were the usual predictable slush.

Anyone have details of this study ?

On Edit: Perhaps here - google "women attracted to undecided men"

 

[Die Hard]

Sounds like the same reason it is so difficult for men to get over relationships with HPD/BPD nutcases. Roissy can call it what he wants, we are really just acting like male HPD's.

True that... The difference is we do it consciously and control our behavior, whereas BPD's do it subconsciously and don't control their behavior.

 

[Nutz]

Well since we are posting articles about unplugging and dating...how's this for ya.

http://nyc.barstoolsports.com/rando...e-also-getting-laid-more-ill-take-that-trade/

Here is a critical aspect that men need to realize or they may end up not getting laid at all:

Women are indeed competing for men.

....the top 10-20% of men.


What's happening is women are earning money hand over fist, so the old school provider thing, that's simply not going to get you a woman any longer. Due to women's own hypergamy there are fewer men above them to look up to, so of course they're competing.... for that smaller pool of men who are higher status than themselves.

 

[Jitterbug]

Notice that the older guys here have said there was no "epiphany" for them. That's because they had lived long enough to make their own mistakes and learn a lot of these lessons on their own.

No, it's because their fathers were men, and the society they grew up in was male friendly. But even they would know male peers who are very much pvssified and have shared such stories here on many occasions.

As I wrote earlier in this thread, I never had any epiphany moment, because I grew up in another culture & society where men are men, and society was not contaminated by feminism. My father did his job, and my mother deferred to him for the final say on how to raise me, since I was a boy.

I didn't need this site to unplug me. I needed it to educate me on what I'm dealing with, since I come from a different background.

Other young guys who grew up here don't have my advantage. I see the sons of my mother's friends who either have no father in the house to look up to, or a weak father that gets kicked to the couch or out of the house whenever there's an argument. They are walking tragedies.

 

[zekko]

The short of it was that the results revealed that women are indeed attracted to men who often treat them with indifference and withhold their feelings.. men about whom she is unsure.

Women have been doing this to guys for years (playing hard to get).
Since this study is only about the effect on women, I'd be curious to see if the effect on men is the same.

The presenter then revealed his own matrix membership by expressing disbelief and said, "I would have thought the exact opposite was true."

So if a guy doesn't know how to play hard to get, he's a member of the "matrix"?
Wow, just wow.

 

[Die Hard]

Dude, how hard is it to understand this matrix concept?!?!

Most guys think they have to act nice and overwhelm girls with signs of love and attention, so that the girl will reciprocate. They're in the matrix. Guys who realize that this will only deteriorate the girl's interest and that you should do the opposite (act more like a jerk) to stimulate her feelings for you, those guys got out of the matrix.

Basically, that's the core of it. But people might loosely use the term in relation to any specific knowledge or lack of knowledge about "the game". Along tied to the concept, is the aspect of self respect, not taking sh!t from her and not letting her control.manipulate you because you have feelings for her. But that's just diving deeper into the concept, the core of it is what I described in the first paragraph.

So yes, the words of the presenter show he's still a member of the matrix.


GET IT?