U.S. vs. China

[Jariel]

So the US will just nuke a country suddenly, without warning, for no reason?

Not even the Nazis were that cruel.

No, but Bush is that stupid!

 

[Le Parisien]

Well to be completely honest the bulk of their missiles wouldn't even make it here. The DF-5 is a relatively slow moving missile and would make easy prey for a small squadron of F14 equiped with air to air missiles.

Woa, didn't expect people to be this knowledgebale on sosuave...

Actually, the DF-5 is already pretty much old news, the Chinese know about their relatively backward ballistic missiles that are rather bulky and unreliable.

Now there's the DF-31 for almost more than 10 years now, and an even longer range DF-41 has been said to exist secretly. There's also the JL-2 which is the navalized version of DF-31 that will be used on the new Chinese nuclear submarines, known as the 094 project.

So you can't rely on Patriots or even the newer TMD systems or other NMD systems to counter that efficiently.

 

[Cash]

lol, oh dear,

China lacks to the capabilities to invade even taiwan at this point in time, though they are building up. They could fight a defensive war but have no power projection capability.

China is overestimated in being billed as the worlds next superpower (something the pentegon are probably pleased with).

 

[The Truth]

Allegedly China have long had an *OIL FREE* and greatly efficient means of generating electricity that would cost barely anything to power their entire country and is polution and risk free! Incredible, if true!

Ideally we should all be using this technology just like we should all be driving electric, solar or water powered cars BUT America and other powerful countries repress this technology because obviously they will lose a lot of oil sales and a huge income!

BUT China have plans to impliment this technology in less than a decade REGARDLESS if any country opposes them!

If this happens then oil rich countries who depend on sales from exports will suddenly lose a MASSIVE income and the power scales will steadily tip in China's favour.

Not all power struggles and wars are military. The smartest of them all are are financial and political! Although the US have the military muscle, countries like China, Japan and Saudi Arabia have a lot more bargaining power.

 

[diplomatic_lies]

Um, I believe it's called hydroelectricity. You must be referring to the recent spate of hydro power plants being built in north-west and west China?

 

[brucevangeorge]

Hmmm? Where are those douchebag mods that keep closing intellectual discussions like these?

 

[PRMoon]

If the US ever becomes a threat to the free world, then they can be stopped. Yes, maybe the world will be crippled along the way, but the US will still be stopped.

As person very in tune with the militaries of the world, past and present I whole heartedly dissagree. The bulk of the UNs weaponry is on loan...from the US. There has never been a military machine that's as destructive as the one presently in the US, though the Nazis came close (alot of people don't know how close there were to having the technology to win the war). Regardless the US military has grown pretty much un checked since it's enception. Could the conquer the world? No, because conquest can only be achieved by marching your troops in the capitol city of the conquered and there's no way that's even plause able. If the US went loco and just started bombing everyone, leaving the US as the last country still standing (techincaly they'd have to march on canada and the us because they're too close to bomb) that's certianly possible. But then again there'd be a nuclear winter killing off almost all forms of life on the planet from the fall out.

Exactly - which is why China has recently moved into a diplomatic route. They know America is an aggressive country who aren't afraid of blowing up the world to get their way, so Beijing is quietly cutting off any excuses for the US to attack. The only way American troops will land in Shanghai is, if the US government becomes a fascist dictatorship.

Exactly, the whole thing is ludicris anyway. The concept of the US going to war with any first world countries is laughable. They won't even step in in africa where there's genocide daily, so a full scale war with anyone else is inconcieveable at best.

 

[SexPDX]

US hardly manufactures anything, but is the largest single market for goods in the world.

Isn't kind of a misleading statement to say the US "hardly manufactures anything"? It is true that 20% of GDP industrial sector isn't very large in terms of proportion but given that the US economy is the largest in the world by quite some distance (over $13 trillion GDP in 2005), that makes the US industrial sector extremely large in absolute terms.

Think about it for a second....Honeywell, Merck, Ford, GM, Boeing, United Tech, GE...hardly ANYTHING???

 

[Deep Dish]

Only 5% of American college students major in engineering, compared to 20% of Germans and 38% of Chinese. If you take the top 1% brightest American high school students, they only perform as well as the top 20% of Canadians. In international competitions of education/academics/thinking, America consistently ranks about dead last. I think that pretty much sums up the question. In the global scheme of things, who gives a hoot about America.

 

[PRMoon]

Woa, didn't expect people to be this knowledgebale on sosuave...

Actually, the DF-5 is already pretty much old news, the Chinese know about their relatively backward ballistic missiles that are rather bulky and unreliable.

Now there's the DF-31 for almost more than 10 years now, and an even longer range DF-41 has been said to exist secretly. There's also the JL-2 which is the navalized version of DF-31 that will be used on the new Chinese nuclear submarines, known as the 094 project.

So you can't rely on Patriots or even the newer TMD systems or other NMD systems to counter that efficiently.

This is news to me I try not too read up TOO much on nuclear arms because it depresses me how uneffective they are from a sugical strike stand point. Anyway, I brought up schmatics on the latest DF series ICBMs and yeah since they're high orbit delivery then yeah conventional intercept methods wouldn't really work. Thanks for the info captian.

 

[American_Psycho]

Only 5% of American college students major in engineering, compared to 20% of Germans and 38% of Chinese. If you take the top 1% brightest American high school students, they only perform as well as the top 20% of Canadians. In international competitions of education/academics/thinking, America consistently ranks about dead last. I think that pretty much sums up the question. In the global scheme of things, who gives a hoot about America.

Hahahahahaha

Right buddy, who cares about America, obviously an insignificant country that will never achieve much of anything...

 

[diplomatic_lies]

If the US went loco and just started bombing everyone, leaving the US as the last country still standing (techincaly they'd have to march on canada and the us because they're too close to bomb) that's certianly possible.

Such an action could very likely destroy the United States. First, there would be a complete trade embargo against the US. Secondly, even if the US does win, there would be massive damage to US manufacturing facilities. This would lead to a massive plummet in living standards for American citizens, causing outbreaks of unchecked violence. Such violence would be increased as terrorists run rampant.

Finally, the political instability caused by these events could lead to either civil war, uncontrolled rebellion, civil disorder, and even coups.

From a pure military perspective, yes the US could destroy the world. But not when you take every other factor into account.

 

[Cash]

I am for the most part pro-american, despite living in the ever liberal UK where it's cool to be anti-american.

When America loses it's superpowerdom, it should wan't to, as the globalized world balances itself out.

 

[PRMoon]

Such an action could very likely destroy the United States. First, there would be a complete trade embargo against the US. Secondly, even if the US does win, there would be massive damage to US manufacturing facilities. This would lead to a massive plummet in living standards for American citizens, causing outbreaks of unchecked violence. Such violence would be increased as terrorists run rampant.

Finally, the political instability caused by these events could lead to either civil war, uncontrolled rebellion, civil disorder, and even coups.

From a pure military perspective, yes the US could destroy the world. But not when you take every other factor into account.

You forgot about

that's certianly possible. But then again there'd be a nuclear winter killing off almost all forms of life on the planet from the fall out.

It wouldn't even have to be a technical nuclear winter. The end results from global bombing would have catostrophic results on the world and it's enviorment. It would be more then sufficient to end life on the planet one way or the other. Third time I'm going to say it, the whole idea of the US going to war with ANY first world country is insane.

 

[Deep Dish]

Hahahahahaha

Right buddy, who cares about America, obviously an insignificant country that will never achieve much of anything...

Yup. Glorious past, no doubt, but not too bright a future.

 

[Cash]

How did you come to that conclusion?

 

[Deep Dish]

How did you come to that conclusion?

Many factors but for me to give a full description would not be relevant to this thread.

 

[Cash]

who asked for a full description? Most of this threads comments aren't 'relevant' to the original topic.

Throw out a few of your factors.

 

[Deep Dish]

History

Powers rise and invariably fall. America has been around for about two hundred years and by every measure seems to be in decline. The past is the best predictor of the future. (I give America about another one hundred years before it collapses into complete irrelevancy and is another Russia.)

Men

This is talked about all the time on this site. Masculinity is in decline. Whatever happened to courage and bravery?

Health.

America is practically the sickest and fattest of major industrialized countries. Just as one case in point, if you take the healthiest third of Americans, they compare worse than the sickest third of Brits, even despite the American obsession for medical care.

Economics

The ridiculous trade deficit. Jobs are shipping overseas. The US dollar is in decline. China is posed to soon take reign as the world's most powerful country.

Education

American students don't give that much a hoot about science and it's science which propels societies to success. American colleges swarm with foreigners, particularly in the sciences. Meanwhile, the average American guy is more interested in boozing, getting stoned, and getting laid. There's this whole anti-intellectual climate in high schools and colleges.

And by coincidence, just to toss this in, the New York Times just ran a story how the world's opinion of America is continuing to decline. I'm just saying.

 

[Le Parisien]

History

Powers rise and invariably fall. America has been around for about two hundred years and by every measure seems to be in decline. The past is the best predictor of the future. (I give America about another one hundred years before it collapses into complete irrelevancy and is another Russia.)

Men

This is talked about all the time on this site. Masculinity is in decline. Whatever happened to courage and bravery?

Health.

America is practically the sickest and fattest of major industrialized countries. Just as one case in point, if you take the healthiest third of Americans, they compare worse than the sickest third of Brits, even despite the American obsession for medical care.

Economics

The ridiculous trade deficit. Jobs are shipping overseas. The US dollar is in decline. China is posed to soon take reign as the world's most powerful country.

Education

American students don't give that much a hoot about science and it's science which propels societies to success. American colleges swarm with foreigners, particularly in the sciences. Meanwhile, the average American guy is more interested in boozing, getting stoned, and getting laid. There's this whole anti-intellectual climate in high schools and colleges.

And by coincidence, just to toss this in, the New York Times just ran a story how the world's opinion of America is continuing to decline. I'm just saying.

I totally agree with what you say.

I'm NOT saying that America's decline is inevitable, but from what we see, it's heading there full speed.

I especially agree with you on the health and education part, more especially on the education part...

I was in the States for two years for a MS in computer science, I witnessed the whole things first hand. Science in America has become a field that is looked down upon and somewhat despised, American students are so busy getting into business, finance, law and other "services oriented" majors, for the easy money, and for the hot chicks. (We all know that engineering majors don't have enough females, and most of them are butt ugly ) I know that these fields are important as well, but ultimately they are just helpers so that our technology driven society can move forward. And let's not forget why America is right now the only hyperpower in the world: its huge technology supremacy.

Sure it sounds ridiculous to say that America will become a backward country, it's not gonna happen in the next one hundred years. But history is always right, every civilization has ups and downs. Look at the ancient Romans, the ancient Greeks, the ancient Arabs, the ancient Chinese until the18th century (fortunately three centuries later they are picking up again now) etc... They all thought that their unquestionable supremacy would last forever.

There's a lot of inertia in a country's development. It's really hard to even start the devlopment of a country that's in deep sh*t, at the same time the slowing down of a once developed country is also not that brutal thus not noticeable. But once it stops, it's too late to get back up again...