To the ugly guys...

[ArtVandelay]

I see guys in here complaining that they're ugly, fat, skinny, asian, etc., and I'm here to tell you it doesn't matter. A couple years ago, I used to think "If you want a hot chick, you have to be a some muscular jock or have a pretty boy face." Of course, at bars and clubs, where women know they're going to get hit on, their shields are up because so many guys are hitting on them that they can afford to be picky.

In the real world, if you want to date a HB (which you have a better chance of if you're not-so-good-looking than having a string of one night stands with hotties) looks have little to do with it. Game has nothing to do with it. It's all a social game. Ask any attractive girl "How did you meet your boyfriend?" and she's going to say "Through a friend" or something to that effect.

For guys, it doesn't matter that some fattie is friends with your friend. It doesn't make her any more attractive or desirable. For girls, social proof is everything. They want comfort and trust. If you're friends with a girl's friend, you're cool by association unless she thinks you're really, really ugly, and even in some cases, that doesn't matter, either.

I'm not delusional. If you went up to 10 random women and asked them what they thought of me, the words ugly, nerdy, geeky, creepy, creeper would come out of most of their mouths. But I no longer care about 10 women that I don't want to sleep with anyway. And even if they're 10 women I want to sleep with (which is highly doubtful given how picky I am), number 11 could want me.

I think this site means well but it needs a reality check. Yes, looks don't matter. No, game doesn't matter, either. If you want some immature drama-filled girl, you'll need to counter her games with games of your own, but if you want a WOMAN, all you need to do is be a social person. I'm not saying, don't lose weight and sit at home eating doritos and playing dungeons and dragons, but I'm saying, even if 99 women think you're ugly, if 1 women you like doesn't think that you're ugly or care that you're ugly, why does it matter what other women think?

Accept that you're unattractive to most women, improve what can be improved about your appearance, and work on other aspects of your life. If you ask most good looking guys here, it isn't any easier other than initally getting in the door. After that, if anything, women expect more out of the good looking guy and if he doesn't have a bank account and Richard Gere charm to go along with it, he's out the door.

I spent too much time staring at Tom Brady pictures wishing I woke up and looked like him. Time I could have been hitting the brunette with big boobs from behind.

 

[KarmaSutra]

Word.

 

[EricInTheHouse]

Good post man, and Doing things to improve upon what you have, and just being all around good and active does wonders.

I'm seriously not a 10, and far from being Brad Pitt, or even a Viggo Mortensen, but god dammit, despite what some of the LoveShackers think of me, in real life I am a nice guy. Just that my emotions wander a bit more on the internet.

I know guys that have looks that woman go bananas over, but those same guys are complete Chip-on-shoulder a$$holes in the purest form.
I'm a geek, but I'm funny, quirky, handy, polite(inreal life) respectful, and I know I would be faithful for always if I was in a relationship.

I've been told by nice looking chicks, that I have nice blue eyes, and a cute smile, and I wish my self esteem would let me believe that, but it doesn't.....sucks.

Good post, thanks.

 

[Warrior74]

Good post man, and Doing things to improve upon what you have, and just being all around good and active does wonders.

I'm seriously not a 10, and far from being Brad Pitt, or even a Viggo Mortensen, but god dammit, despite what some of the LoveShackers think of me, in real life I am a nice guy. Just that my emotions wander a bit more on the internet.

I know guys that have looks that woman go bananas over, but those same guys are complete Chip-on-shoulder a$$holes in the purest form.
I'm a geek, but I'm funny, quirky, handy, polite(inreal life) respectful, and I know I would be faithful for always if I was in a relationship.

I've been told by nice looking chicks, that I have nice blue eyes, and a cute smile, and I wish my self esteem would let me believe that, but it doesn't.....sucks.

Good post, thanks.

Do meditations, hit the gym, workout. and start to believe it!

 

[Faded Image]

Hey mods, here's another for the banned wagon.

 

[ArtVandelay]

The only difference between a good looking guy and an average or ugly guy (except for the fact that the good looking guy can look in the mirror and admire himself for his attractiveness) is that he has a ton of ugly and fat women drooling over him.

My brother gets checked out by women of all ages. Sometimes it's the 18 year old that weighs 105 lbs and has 36Ds, but more often than not, it's ugly women, old women, fat women, underage girls, or women that he's not interested in. The one advantage he has is that when he sees a woman he's interested in, he can be confident in the fact that she's at least going to give him a chance, but once he's in, it's no different. If anything, they assume right off the bat that he's a "player" and hold out. The only other advantage he has is that her friends will like him and tell her how lucky she is and she's not likely to break up with him anytime soon.

 

[betterthandead]

I'm not going to be like the dullards on the site and agree with your post.

So are you saying that fat chain smoker with a pee wee haircut is going to pick up attractive women? Maybe average looking women at best but I think you're wrong about social proof. Social proof just tells other women that a particular guy is well known enough to know her. But you have to have to think for a bit, what if that very guy doesn't have any guy friends or guy friends at all? What if that guy doesn't have any other friends besides a female friend. It's understandable if a guy is pretty much a loner but within my realm if he's surefoot of where he's heading he'll figure out a way to a woman's heart if he desires her company.

I don't need social proof to determine whether I am a safe person or a person whose approachable.

 

[ArtVandelay]

If you read my post, you'd see that I said if you're not good looking, chances are you aren't going to have a string of one night stands with hotties or a bunch of hotties after you. All I'm saying is, go out and look at the world and tell me how many mismatched couples you see. I'm not saying "Oh an ugly guy can get any girl he wants." I'm saying if an ugly guy plays the social game, makes friends with the right people, he'll be introduced to hotties that give him a chance because he knows the same people they do.
I was recently at a bar, gawking at this girl that looked like a younger Diane Lane. My friend tells me, "You realize she's with him, right?" Next thing I know, I see her locking lips with some fat, star wars looking geek. I mean, they were together the whole time, and I didn't even give the guy the time of day to even be in her social circle, let alone her boyfriend.
If you're not a good looking guy and want to get women out of your league, you aren't going to bang hot chick after hot chick, but you can get a hot girl in a long term relationship with social proof and personality.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I saw some extreme nerds at law school have some pretty decent-looking girlfriends. Not the absolute hottest women, but hb6-8.

Also, a hb9 I know is in love with a man in prison for killing a guy. The guy is a 45 y/o thug, tats, pale, looks like Tommy Lee's evil cousin. He turns her on like no one else.

 

[KarmaSutra]

Hey mods, here's another for the banned wagon.

Only 262 more posts until you reach Master Don Juan!

Something to shoot for.

 

[ArtVandelay]

I'm not saying you're going to see Rocky from The Mask with Jenna Jameson, all I'm saying is, whenever I see girls that I consider the 8-10 range, they aren't always with some muscular jock or some pretty boy. More often than not, I think "If he can get her, anyone can."

If you're talking about high school, yeah, pretty much unless you're a jock or pretty boy, you're not going to come within sniffing distance of a hot girl, but in the real world, women date down.

If you're some short asian guy who's mad at the world, you're not even going to get a fattie, but you especially aren't going to walk into a club and pull HB10s. You can, however, make the right friends and get introduced to a HB, unless you have unrealistic playboy model standards.

 

[mackdaddy27]

wow. I love you man. But Looks are important for me whether they help or not because i want to feel good so i work out trying to lose 45 pounds, doing some plastic surgery , and trying to comb my favorite hairstyle. btw I wear a 500 banana republic blazer that looks money on me because of my built.

 

[thedeparted]

FWIW, I have been the ugly nerdy guy with the hot girl. Any asian should know about the 2/10 rule or plus 2 minus 1. I have also had hot female friends with fat ugly dudes, even one who was cutting himself (i.e., suicidal). And my buddy is 40 lbs over weight, lazy, slobby, and has a hot younger GF.

Looks do matter, especially in bars and for ONS, but they are not everything. Elevate your game, increase your social proof, and you are better looking in the female's eyes. Simple as that.

 

[EricInTheHouse]

I'm not saying you're going to see Rocky from The Mask with Jenna Jameson, all I'm saying is, whenever I see girls that I consider the 8-10 range, they aren't always with some muscular jock or some pretty boy. More often than not, I think "If he can get her, anyone can."

This is true and just the other day at the store I came out and I was like "Holy ****!" what the hell is that!." This freakin boner-inducing blond with extreme, cut, blue jean shorts was walking up to the door. She was easily a 10+ and OmG, her face was perfect.. perfect teeth, roundish, Jessica Alba quality features, and that oily tanned skin look. I swear if I walked by her and smelled coconut butter lotion on her, I would of creamed my jeans on the spot.

I'm not lying.... this girl was EXTREMELY FREAKIN HOT... Not a bit over 110 ponds and no skin flaws or fatness.. her blond hair went to her bum....jeezus , I'm getting hard thinking about it.

My point is the dude that was with her looked like any other scuzz bucket ****head around here. I assume he is her BF. He had a scuzzy go-tee, frazzled looking hair, and had a punk like attitude about him. Extra large T-shirt that hung over his ass, and some faded blue jeans... I saw nothing to great about that guy at all... he looked like her mechanic or something...

All I could think to myself was "How in the hell did that fracker get a babe like her" She was as pretty or prettier than Jessica Alba... I'm NOT lying one bit... Easily the hottest girl I have ever seen in this redneck part of NY I have ever seen... Dudes, old men and even woman were taking second looks at her... OMFG!

If that guy got her then I swear I could at least get a 6 or 7..:cheer:
For me though... I like smart girls, and ones that know what they want and aren't "needy" If that girl was a total giddy annoying person then I wouldn't care she looked like Jessica Alba.. she would be down the road.

 

[SinJester]

I agree with the general gist of the thread I think. Um, looks don't matter? But it's all about social proof and game doesn't matter? Riight I don't get it but kudos for you. In my opinion almost everyone can look good if they take care of themselves, have style and look after their bodies. I can also guarentee you that most of the guys on here that think they are ugly are probably not nearly as bad off as they think they are. There's heaps of variables so to everyone who comes out and say girls are attracted to JUST ONE THING I will always disagree.

If you went up to 10 random women and asked them what they thought of me, the words ugly, nerdy, geeky, creepy, creeper would come out of most of their mouths.

Um you still have a lot of work to do then. It sounds like you have no style or social skills at all, so good luck getting a girl. Seriously no offense, I don't know you and your quote probably isn't true.

PS: Wutangofficial is a douchebag

 

[KarmaSutra]

I agree with the general gist of the thread I think. Um, looks don't matter? But it's all about social proof and game doesn't matter? Riight I don't get it but kudos for you. In my opinion almost everyone can look good if they take care of themselves, have style and look after their bodies. I can also guarentee you that most of the guys on here that think they are ugly are probably not nearly as bad off as they think they are. There's heaps of variables so to everyone who comes out and say girls are attracted to JUST ONE THING I will always disagree.

NO-THING is unattainable. Absolutely nothing. With perseverance, dedication and proper motivation, everything is within your reach.

PS: Wutangofficial is a douchebag

I don't make it a habit to sh!t on people but all Wutang does is complain about what he doesn't get. Pure victim of circumstance mentality. Instead of grabbing himself by the sac and doing the most important and uncomfortable thing he can, he chooses to give himself a shot of repetitive self loathing in order to make himself feel superior. Wutang, you'll keep crashing and burning until you turn your own page.

Do it and do it now.

 

[sandman6991]

^no, you can't. Sorry man, if you're fat, or a geek, you're not getting hotties. Not now, not ever. You CAN change your appearance though.

Go to the gym, dress right, get a hair cut, clear up your acne, get a natural tan. Maybe even get plastic surgery.

God bless...just because you can't, it doesn't mean everyone else can't.

 

[SinJester]

NO-THING is unattainable. Absolutely nothing. With perseverance, dedication and proper motivation, everything is within your reach.

I agree, with that mindset it becomes true.

I don't make it a habit to sh!t on people but all Wutang does is complain about what he doesn't get. Pure victim of circumstance mentality. Instead of grabbing himself by the sac and doing the most important and uncomfortable thing he can, he chooses to give himself a shot of repetitive self loathing in order to make himself feel superior. Wutang, you'll keep crashing and burning until you turn your own page.

I don't make habit of hating people either, only in rare cicumstances where they consistantly manage to p!ss myself and others off. It's one thing to think all that sh!t it's another to try and force it on other who clearly don't want anything to do with it.

But I just had this discussion tonight with an hb8-she actually really hates it when ugly guys hit on her. It's insulting to her self-image. She said if an ugly guy wants to talk to her in a friendly manner, that's one thing. But for an ugly guy to try to seduce to her, hoping she won't notice he's ugly, insults her intelligence.

She's a b!tch, plain and simple. Insults her 'intelligence'? I don't think she has much anyway. I hate stuck up people like that, not the kind of person I want as a friend. Sure it's one thing if a drunk insulting angry guy hits on her with crude comments, but generally hating on ugly people? What would she say about a suave, charming, charismatic, rich, slightly less than average guy with solid game and social proof came up to her?

 

[Bible_Belt]

I'm not fat or a geek....

Whatever, Mister Economist, you are at least not fat. Being a little geeky comes with the territory of being intelligent.

for an ugly guy to try to seduce to her, hoping she won't notice he's ugly, insults her intelligence.

A crucial element of any seduction is that the woman not notice that she is being seduced. That's what makes it seduction. Maybe you are too transparent when you are trying to hit on girls. A girl should not be certain that you are hitting on her when you are hitting on her. If she is, then you are doing it incorrectly. Don't be so obvious.

I met a gf of mine at school, and when I saw that she liked me, I did everything I could to confuse her about whether or not I liked her back. I'd talk to her one day, and ignore her the next. She dropped several obvious hints about wanting to go to a school formal dance with me, and I never asked her, never went because I am not into re-living hs prom over and over. One day I saw her sitting in the lobby, walked up to her like I was going to ask her out, and said, "hey, I need some help carrying some stuff. Give me a hand." Then I made her carry some heavy coolers of drinks with me for a club meeting. She showed up to the club meeting and joined it just to see me, then was emailing me and asking me out within a few days. I waited a few days to respond to her email. Then I took her to eat cheap chinese food, and we fvcked like rabbits for the next six months. She asked me several times about that day I asked her to carry the coolers, and whether I did it because I liked her, or because I just needed help. She said not being able to figure that out drove her nuts. Don't be obvious.

 

[Purple-Haze]

^just because you don't WANT something to be true, doesn't mean it isn't true.

I used to be all about the "looks don't matter" crap until enough women explained that's a myth propagated by drunk guys bulsh!tting each other at sports bars.

You're welcome to believe whatever you want. But it doesn't change empirical reality.

You keep digging yourself into a deeper hole. Do you like where you are? Do you enjoy the misery you've created for yourself? Self-loathing can become comfortable after a while...especially if you've convinced yourself that there is nothing you can do.

Just remember that YOUR reality is not another's reality. YOUR experiences are not necessarily what the average man experiences.

I've seen enough odd-pairings to know that looks don't always matter. Do you want to know what matters to most women? MOST WOMEN want a REAL MAN. It's as simple as that. He has to have the right mix of all that push/pull BS. I'm not talking about of those obsessive freakish guys (some of whom are on this here SS) that evaluate and scrutinize EVERYTHING and obsess about every freakin' detail... I am talking about a man who is balanced and won't take BS from a woman. A man who is proud of himself and where he is in life and one who does not complain. These men are at the top of my list (and that of my friends). And no, my friends are not ugly "fat chicks" who pine after unattainable men. Some of these women are very accomplished and superbly feminine women. If you saw some of the men they date, your little mindset would be shattered into bits.

I would never date a man I wasn't attracted to (on some level). What I find attractive differs from what my girlfriend may find attractive. But at the core, we both want a man who is unafraid, one who takes control, one who is comfortable in his own skin and one who is sincere (just to name a few traits). We want the quintessential MASCULINE man. Any man that comes close to this, we will find attractive. The closer he is to this ideal, the crazier and intense the chemistry.

One of my closest friends is married to what you would likely consider an "ugly" guy. He is around her height (around 5'4 or so) or an inch taller (maybe 5'5?) and doesn't have the most handsome face. What's worse, he has girlish fingers. Now my friend is a very beautiful woman (the kind of girl that used to get double-takes in high school). Beautiful is definitely a word I'd use to describe her.

But my friend is very much in love with him because TO HER, he is masculine. He is very much a no-nonsense, no BS kind of guy who is a great provider. He calls her on her BS but also loves her with a fierce, protective passion. She is attracted to him because he is powerful (he's a politician) and because she has never had to question his masculinity.

Now compare this couple with another example. I have a friend who was dating a friend of mine (I set them up). My guy friend is a total dud (had I known how much of a dud he was, I would have never introduced him). Anyway, this guy is in law school, around 6'2 and works out. My friend cant' stand him. At first, she gave him a shot...but now, she is avoiding his calls and wishing he would go away. Eventually she told him that it wasn't going to work (and he claimed to be "shocked" with the news...he felt things were going "so well").

The man has as much masculine energy as I do in my little pinky. He is a wishy washy, self-doubting moron when he is in with a woman he likes romantically. It's quite uncomfortable to watch him in action (I had the pleasure of going on a double-date with them). That night was full of much mental criniging for me. Like I said, if I knew this beforehand, I would've spared my gf the horror that is the DUD.

You see, when a woman is with a masculine man, it's not just about him. Being with a guy who is A MAN is an affirmation and validation for a woman (the masculine energy brings out her feminine energy). Being with a man who is in control and who is unapologetic about his masculinity makes you feel more like a woman. I love being around my bf for this precise reason.

Simply put, we want a man that makes us feel like a woman - and how does he do this? THROUGH HIS MASCULINITY.