To the ugly guys...

[ketostix]

I see guys in here complaining that they're ugly, fat, skinny, asian, etc., and I'm here to tell you it doesn't matter. A couple years ago, I used to think "If you want a hot chick, you have to be a some muscular jock or have a pretty boy face." Of course, at bars and clubs, where women know they're going to get hit on, their shields are up because so many guys are hitting on them that they can afford to be picky.

In the real world, if you want to date a HB (which you have a better chance of if you're not-so-good-looking than having a string of one night stands with hotties) looks have little to do with it. Game has nothing to do with it. It's all a social game. Ask any attractive girl "How did you meet your boyfriend?" and she's going to say "Through a friend" or something to that effect.

For guys, it doesn't matter that some fattie is friends with your friend. It doesn't make her any more attractive or desirable. For girls, social proof is everything. They want comfort and trust. If you're friends with a girl's friend, you're cool by association unless she thinks you're really, really ugly, and even in some cases, that doesn't matter, either.

I'm not delusional. If you went up to 10 random women and asked them what they thought of me, the words ugly, nerdy, geeky, creepy, creeper would come out of most of their mouths. But I no longer care about 10 women that I don't want to sleep with anyway. And even if they're 10 women I want to sleep with (which is highly doubtful given how picky I am), number 11 could want me.

I think this site means well but it needs a reality check. Yes, looks don't matter. No, game doesn't matter, either. If you want some immature drama-filled girl, you'll need to counter her games with games of your own, but if you want a WOMAN, all you need to do is be a social person. I'm not saying, don't lose weight and sit at home eating doritos and playing dungeons and dragons, but I'm saying, even if 99 women think you're ugly, if 1 women you like doesn't think that you're ugly or care that you're ugly, why does it matter what other women think?

Accept that you're unattractive to most women, improve what can be improved about your appearance, and work on other aspects of your life. If you ask most good looking guys here, it isn't any easier other than initally getting in the door. After that, if anything, women expect more out of the good looking guy and if he doesn't have a bank account and Richard Gere charm to go along with it, he's out the door.

I spent too much time staring at Tom Brady pictures wishing I woke up and looked like him. Time I could have been hitting the brunette with big boobs from behind.

I haven't read the replies yet, What your saying is basically true except you have a contradiction and a catch-22. As you said hot girls usually date guys they met through a soocial circle and are influenced by others' opinion and SP. But if a majority of girls think you're ugly, weird, creepy, etc., then you're not going to really have any friends or a social circle or SP to meet the girl in the first place. You will have negative SP and backstabbers with in your social circle who will CB you even if one girl in it finds you attractive. You still have to at least pass muster with a a majority of the people to be approved by the HB.

So in order to accomplish what you're saying, getting a hot girlfriend by being social, you couldn't be considered social and at the same time, weird and creepy by most people.

 

[Stéphane]

She is attracted to him because he is powerful (he's a politician)

Obviously she's going to love him, but imagine if he lost his job.

 

[Purple-Haze]

Obviously she's going to love him, but imagine if he lost his job.

He was not involved in politics as much when they were dating (he was not running for anything at the time).

My point was that her attraction to him was based on his masculinity. I'll admit that she was not very fond of him at first. When I asked her if she was into him (she used to talk about quite a bit about him) she asked me if I was crazy (because of how he looked). Over time, her initial attraction to his playful personality (he is the kind of guy that would put her in her place) coupled with some one-on-one time began to alter her stance on him (she went from "no freakin' way" to "he makes me melt".

I have some cattier friends who've made remarks about their R, asking me why she's with him. But I know enough about her and the way she works to know that she's with him because he makes her feel like a real woman (something her spinless ex could never do).

 

[Stéphane]

I'll admit that she was not very fond of him at first.

Yep

 

[Purple-Haze]

Yep

You ignore the rest of my post. Why is that?

 

[Stéphane]

You ignore the rest of my post. Why is that?

Over time he got more powerful.

 

[Purple-Haze]

Over time he got more powerful.

Not really. He's had some bumps along the way (some would argue that he is LESS powerful than he was before).

My point is this: there was SOME initial attraction (albeit low) because he challenged her (in a playful manner). Over time, this grew into a strong kind of attraction. She admires him and respects him because she has never had to question his worth. He does not play mind games with her and she respects his directness.

If she had based EVERYTHING on his looks, they never would have gotten married. While people gab about how lucky HE is for getting someone like her, she is always telling me that SHE is the lucky one (and no, this isn't her trying to convince herself that she didn't marry a troll). She really believes it.

 

[Stéphane]

Well she sounds like a good woman then. I on the other hand got the luck of a troll.

 

[Mad Manic]

I haven't read the replies yet, What your saying is basically true except you have a contradiction and a catch-22. As you said hot girls usually date guys they met through a soocial circle and are influenced by others' opinion and SP. But if a majority of girls think you're ugly, weird, creepy, etc., then you're not going to really have any friends or a social circle or SP to meet the girl in the first place. You will have negative SP and backstabbers with in your social circle who will CB you even if one girl in it finds you attractive. You still have to at least pass muster with a a majority of the people to be approved by the HB.

So in order to accomplish what you're saying, getting a hot girlfriend by being social, you couldn't be considered social and at the same time, weird and creepy by most people.

Other than certain race discussions I always completely agree with what you say Keto. I just wish people were as realistic and clear cut as you. There's way too much BS on here about gaming and seducing, reality is that social networking, social proof and being approved by a girls' friends etc. is what matters. Yet people still think they can get away with being a lone wolf who CA's. As I've said before, the real reasons in which a guy usually CA's comes back to bite him in the butt even if the girl he games actually likes him. What parties will he be going to? What cool guys and girls does he hang out with? What great social things does he do? You can't just walk around this stuff.

MM

 

[ArtVandelay]

Keto, let me clarify. If a girl thinks you’re ugly, creepy, etc. it doesn’t matter if her best friend thinks you’re handsome and a good person. She’s not going to want anything to do with you. To everyone else as well, I’m not saying looks and physical attraction don’t matter or help at all. I’ve been in a number of a number of situations:

1.)Where the girls found me physically attractive and because of that the initial process was easier. Because they found me attractive, they found my quirks cute that other girls who aren’t attracted might think of as “weird or threatening mannerisms.”

2.)Where the girls were indifferent or mildly attracted to my looks (“he’s attractive but I’m not attracted to him”) but because I was friends with their friends, I was given a genuine chance.

3.)Where the girls think I’m ugly, creepy, etc., and want nothing to do with me. Don’t want to be friends, don’t want to go out, and all but avoid me or laugh at me when they see me. If the girl puts you in the number 3 category, like I said, you’re screwed. She’s never going to take off her panties for you, much less date you.

My point was merely that you can be “blah” or “ok” looking to a girl and still date her if you have the right personality and have mutual friends.

As for not being able to have friends if you're creepy, I had no problem making "cool" friends in college. All of the people I hung out were genuine friends and accepted me. In high school, I had a lot of "fairweather friends" who made fun of me in a desperate attempt to become more "popular" or liked. First, it never worked. Second, I haven't associated with people like that since high school.

My downfall is my arrogance and contradictory beliefs. I belief what I'm saying here is true, but I refuse to live by it because I like the lifestyle of a loner with a few good friends except for the not meeting attractive women part.

 

[Mad Manic]

MadManic you keep bringing up social proof just like wutang brings up height in his threads

I'm pretty convinced your also stuck on this, you have no social proof and blame all your lucklessness on having no social proof.

The "game" is a mix of everything. You cannot have sooooo much game but no looks(height, weight, whats considered handsome), no social proof, no job, no future.

Everything has to be balanced.

Fair enough mate, but from what I know, I do see shortish or not that attractive guys with girlfriends and whatnot, but with all of them they are at least in decent social circles and do have decent lives. I won't go into ethnicity and class here as you know what I think about that combined with SP and how they interlink.

All I was saying is that SP is more important, if you have that you are in. But many of the other factors do influence SP so you are right in saying that everything counts.

Bottom line we all need to address our sticking points, but I can't see how having no SP would still allow one to get a decent gf. But I'm willing to accept I could be wrong though.

PS: Please don't compare me to Wutang, I try to explain my opinions pretty rationally and logically and I don't play the pity game. Although I do like/respect the guy.

MM

 

[stuka1939]

God, people complain about me, but seriously, you should be banned.

Everything you said is completely false. It's stuff that's all in your head, completely delusional. It's stuff I used to believe when I was drunk.

You know there's a whole field to studying the dating game, right?

Do you ever see ugly, nerdy guys with hot chicks? NOT celebrity examples. Honestly, have you? No, you haven't.

Looks are not in the "eye of the beholder"-they're universal. There's a little variation in preferences, but not much. So many studies have confirmed this-I guarantee the same girl you think is hot, the next dude thinks is hot.

Now, you can still get a girlfriend, and I hope you do, but this whole "I'm entitled to hot girls cuz I think about them a lot" is non sense. All guys want hot girls, and women choose the best man. Social proof is a bonus, but looks are ultimately what gets you in the door.

Go for girls in your league, or you'll never get a girl. If you're in your twenties, still a virgin, and believing non sense about how girls don't care about looks, reality has already proved you wrong.

BTW, if 99 women think you're ugly, 100% of women think you're ugly. If you don't except this now, you're gonna deal with a lot of pain.

Amen Wutang!!

This is the best piece of writing I have ever seen from your computer.

As you can tell, I am an advocate of "Looks Matter".

Guys who are fat or have below average looking faces DO NOT get attention from HB6's or higher.

I have seen my fair share of "very average" looking guys with attractive women, but none of these guys were below a 5.

Most couples you see are usually within the same level of attractiveness give or take 1 to 2 points on the 1-10 scale.

And by the way, why are you ugly anyway?

With all the advances in modern medicine and orthodontics, THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO BE UGLY (unless you were involved in an accident or have Down's Syndrome)

And I would like to add this:

Most of the guys I know that constantly hook up with attractive women are atleast 5'9" and relatively good looking.

 

[ketostix]

Keto, let me clarify. If a girl thinks you’re ugly, creepy, etc. it doesn’t matter if her best friend thinks you’re handsome and a good person. She’s not going to want anything to do with you. To everyone else as well, I’m not saying looks and physical attraction don’t matter or help at all. I’ve been in a number of a number of situations:

1.)Where the girls found me physically attractive and because of that the initial process was easier. Because they found me attractive, they found my quirks cute that other girls who aren’t attracted might think of as “weird or threatening mannerisms.”

What I'm saying is if her friends think you have "weird and threatening mannerisms", then even though one girl is attracted to you her friends are going to ruin it. It's rare that a girl will go against her friends if they say things like that about you. That is having negative SP and that's worse than zero SP.

2.)Where the girls were indifferent or mildly attracted to my looks (“he’s attractive but I’m not attracted to him”) but because I was friends with their friends, I was given a genuine chance.

Opposite scenario, you met the threshold of the target girl's requirement, but you had positive SP and that would put you over the edge.

3.)Where the girls think I’m ugly, creepy, etc., and want nothing to do with me. Don’t want to be friends, don’t want to go out, and all but avoid me or laugh at me when they see me. If the girl puts you in the number 3 category, like I said, you’re screwed. She’s never going to take off her panties for you, much less date you.

Right and the girls who thinks so poorly of you are going to do their best to make sure every girl they know who you talk to thinks that way about you too.

My point was merely that you can be “blah” or “ok” looking to a girl and still date her if you have the right personality and have mutual friends.

I agree but what I'm saying is if you have the right personality and have mutual friends then that means they don't think you're weird, creepy, threatening, etc in the first place.

As for not being able to have friends if you're creepy, I had no problem making "cool" friends in college. All of the people I hung out were genuine friends and accepted me. In high school, I had a lot of "fairweather friends" who made fun of me in a desperate attempt to become more "popular" or liked. First, it never worked. Second, I haven't associated with people like that since high school.

Well University is quite a bit like high school. Anyway, were there any attractive girls in this social circle and that you dated? My point is guys who most girls think are weird, creepy, and "threatening", can have friends but it's not a social circle with hot girls in it generally.

My downfall is my arrogance and contradictory beliefs. I belief what I'm saying here is true, but I refuse to live by it because I like the lifestyle of a loner with a few good friends except for the not meeting attractive women part.

So in other words you claimed a guy can be unattractive and unpopular but if he had friends and was sociable he will get a hot GF, yet you aren't actually doing this yourself, right? That's called KJing.

 

[ketostix]

Other than certain race discussions I always completely agree with what you say Keto. I just wish people were as realistic and clear cut as you. There's way too much BS on here about gaming and seducing, reality is that social networking, social proof and being approved by a girls' friends etc. is what matters. Yet people still think they can get away with being a lone wolf who CA's. As I've said before, the real reasons in which a guy usually CA's comes back to bite him in the butt even if the girl he games actually likes him. What parties will he be going to? What cool guys and girls does he hang out with? What great social things does he do? You can't just walk around this stuff.

MM

Well I agree with a lot of things you say as well except for certain aspects of race and the importance of height. SP is proof that you are successfully social. It just the evidence that comes along with having good "game" and the ability to seduce. I'm not going to say you always have to have SP to seduce. What I'm saying is the things that will allow you to seduce successfully even without SP are the same things that will get you SP anyway. It's just displaying SP makes it that much easier. SP and being successful with attracting women go together like thunder and lightening does.

 

[ChrizZ]

Well I agree with a lot of things you say as well except for certain aspects of race and the importance of height. SP is proof that you are successfully social. It just the evidence that comes along with having good "game" and the ability to seduce. I'm not going to say you always have to have SP to seduce. What I'm saying is the things that will allow you to seduce successfully even without SP are the same things that will get you SP anyway. It's just displaying SP makes it that much easier. SP and being successful with attracting women go together like thunder and lightening does.

SP and height help, but are not crucial when it comes to picking up hos.

END OF DEBATE!

 

[stuka1939]

Someone gets it at least. I'm not being negative, so much as trying to prevent guys who got screwed by genetics from wasting all their time on something that will never bring results.

Work on what you do. Neil Strauss was a famous rock critic. Even then, his looks held him back until he could really overcome his confidence issues and groom himself properly.

So work on getting power, money, etc. Not on going to bars where women will never give you the time of day. That will make you an alcoholic with even less money.

.

True, however us attractive looking guys should not apologize for being handsome or feel bad for those who got screwed by Mother Nature in the genetics department.

We are not BOUND by our genetics anymore. If you have weak chin, flat cheeks. gummy smile or horrible looking nose that is seriously affecting your looks....... finance the surgery to get it fixed and then you will be good-looking. Problem Solved......

Don't feel bad for ugly people (unless they had a bad accident)

 

[ArtVandelay]

"What I'm saying is if her friends think you have "weird and threatening mannerisms", then even though one girl is attracted to you her friends are going to ruin it. It's rare that a girl will go against her friends if they say things like that about you. That is having negative SP and that's worse than zero SP."

True, but would you want to go out with such a tool?

"Right and the girls who thinks so poorly of you are going to do their best to make sure every girl they know who you talk to thinks that way about you too."

In high school, this is devastating. I'm sure girls had secret crushes on me or thought I was half-way decent looking but went with the crowd. In real life, there's usually one or two, at the most, HB8+ in a click, at least where I live. HB's tend to hang with 5's and fatties to make themselves look better and feel better about themselves.

"Well University is quite a bit like high school. Anyway, were there any attractive girls in this social circle and that you dated?"

Yes. If you define hot girls as hooter's girls or super models, there weren't any, but plenty of the girls in the group were 7-8s.

"So in other words you claimed a guy can be unattractive and unpopular but if he had friends and was sociable he will get a hot GF, yet you aren't actually doing this yourself, right? That's called KJing."

I'm going by what I see. Like I said, a year or two ago, I was on the "you have to be a muscular jock and/or pretty boy to land HBs." I opened my eyes and saw that this wasn't the case. These guys are often guys that probably had social troubles, got picked on or still get picked on at some point: Nerdy, Everquest-playing looking guys, fat guys, fat/bald guys that look like Kevin Youkilis from the Red Sox only without the fame, guys that would turn off a majority of women, and they're with a HB8+. That means either the woman doesn't care what her friends think, or not all of her friends are on her back about it.

As for WuTangFinancial, it's like you don't even read the posts. Didn't I say at the beginning of my original post that if you're a guy that most girls think are ugly, you're probably not going to pull hotties at bars and nightclubs where looks take the fore-front?

 

[ProDJ26]

LOOKS DO NOT MATTER!!!!

Sometimes I look back and think "how the hell did I pull my ex?"

I swear the whole city wanted to screw her brains out, to bad I was doin the work for em. It craks me up that I always saw guys hit on her and they ALL got rejected the same way. She of course wanted to know why I wasn't the only one hitting on her, fast forward weeks later and I was screwing her brains out while others dreamed.

So yeah looks DO NOT MATTER, IT'S ALL IN YOUR HEAD!!!

 

[GaryUranga]

these threads make goodlookign people liek myself feel less special :'(

 

[Crazy Asian]

i'm ugly+asian (maybe the worst combo?)

if a guy is truly ugly, then just work on yourself and get rich.
Have stuff in your life that are better than women.

i didn't read all of your post, but i just wanted to add something to this topic.
if you are ugly, no matter what your personality is like, you won't be able to get girls. like if a HB1 approached you with the most awesome personality and sexual vibe, you still wouldn't be interested right?