The Zeitgeist

[ricorico]

Thats funny because i don't remember venezuala or iran ever otherthrowing a us president, butting thier nose into other countries business and constantly go on a killing spree with whatever nation they like.

No they go on killing sprees with their own people. I guess the U.S. should have completely ignored the Nazi killing of all the Jews.

 

[speakeasy]

Then you obviously no nothing about the histories of Iran and Venezuela.

 

[ricorico]

I can never understand why folks who are so fed up with the U.S. and the government don't simply get out. There are planes leaving every single day to any country to can imagine. If things are better outside the U.S. why not act and leave instead of constantly complaining? But it's not that easy to just go to another country( most will only give you 90 day VISAS,otherwise you have to prove you have enough money in the bank to live there) and downgrade on the lifestyle you complain about is it?

 

[Holland]

The true conspiracy, has been weaved by the government to your biased little minds, open to exploitation and true fear, catering to your biased view point of other cultures different to yours, in that the LIE has been easy to pass has the TRUTH of THE MATTER, the ones who advocate this stuff are advocating:

Death of your fellow man; soilders.
Death of innocent poor people in IRAQ, what next?
Tagging you all like dogs.

And your think i am pis8ing on the victims?

Open your mind, who exactly do you consider a VICTIM in this?

There is no hope for your country, even if 911 was proved to be true has the official story, you still CANT DENY it was EXPLOITED the best WAY IT COULD BE, pritty damn fuc*ing conveniant dont you think?

I just had to quote this.

 

[Ever onward]

Yeah, I can call the President a Dikkhead to his face if I wanted and nothing would happen. Pull that Shyt anywhere else and see how much freedom the rest of the world has.

You can do that NOW. But what about 10 years from now? Bush has met with the leaders of Canada and Mexico to create a North American Union by the year 2010. Why isn't the media talking about this? Why did the meeting happen behind closed doors? Why hasn't Bush even mentioned this to the American people?

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15233

Check out that link. It's a Conservative website by Washington insiders. It's not some conspiracy website. It's debating politics that are actually occurring.

With all the illegals coming into this country,homegrown terrorist,identity theft by the millions, and also 300 million people, what is wrong with taking into account people's tracks? It won't bother me unles I plan to do something wrong.

If this country becomes part of the North American Union, there will be no more illegal immigrants. The borders between Mexico/Canada/US will become little more than a speed bump. Mexican truckers already have a free pass into this country and that is just the beginning.

Say goodbye to the dollar. In a few years we will all be carrying around "Ameros" similar to the Euros of the European Union. The US Constitution is being thrown out the window. It will become obsolete when we all have to answer to a higher form of North American Union government.

By the way noone answered me when I asked why 9/11 had to be such so complicated if it was really set up by our government. You'd think they would have only had to make the White House a target.Giving no discussion of war.

I don't have time to endlessly debate the logistics of 911. I'm not here to spout information about a conspiracy. And it was a conspiracy. A conspiracy by definition involves planning and more than one person. Now whether that was Al Queda or some rogue element of the government, well that's for you to decide. I'm more concerned with the legislation that is being passed in congress that is taking away our freedoms and it is undeniable, you can look it up. All in the name of security.

I can never understand why folks who are so fed up with the U.S. and the government don't simply get out. There are planes leaving every single day to any country to can imagine.

Why should we leave a nation that we were born in and that we love? Because our government wants to tag us like dogs. I will NOT let them put a chip in me. When they start passing legislation for that to become mandatory I will move to a third world country. I'd rather live in poverty on a beach somewhere than give up my freedom.

No they go on killing sprees with their own people. I guess the U.S. should have completely ignored the Nazi killing of all the Jews.

Why did we go in to liberate the people of IRAQ? This summer I worked with a guy from Cuba. I asked him if he liked it better over here and what he thought of the government in Cuba. He said he hated it. He said his people are mistreated and killed. He said he thought the US should go in and help them. He said that after all, our country went into Iraq and helped them. He told me the only difference is that Iraq has oil and Cuba doesn't. This guy barely spoke English and he had no education but even he realized the obvious. People are oppressed and killed all over the world. But why did we chose Iraq to go into? Because they supposedly had nukes? Yeah right. North Korea definitely has nukes but we didn't invade them.

And speaking of the Nazis, do you know how Hitler came to absolute power?

In 1933 He passed the Enabling Act. It gave him absolute power in a time of emergency. Do you know what emergency that was? His Parliament building was burned down and he blamed it on "Communist terrorists". He wanted it for the security of the country and to protect the German people. Germany had a constitution too but it became obsolete by Hitler's Enabling Act. Hmmm sound familiar?

So that's how liberty dies. A crisis is manufactured by corrupt members of government, legislation is passed to provide more security and freedom is willingly given up by the people "for the sake of the country".

It's happened before. It will happen again. I heard a famous quote once: "Governments are like fires, they MUST be watched".

 

[ricorico]

Yeah, all these conspiracy theorist are playing right into this guy's hands. I'm not Jewish, but I've seen enough proof and heard stories about the Hollocaust exist.I'm not about to go along with conspiracy theorist who can make anything possible. I can make a cosnpiracy theory out of anything as it's been proven throughout history. But it has to make sense. To hear that the highest ranking government officials pulled such a complicated conspiracy theory as 9/11 where it would have been so easy to simplify it. Also FORGOT to hide weapons of mass destruction is beyond reason. You are playing into this guys hands.

AHAL TOOSI, Associated Press Writer 53 minutes ago
NEW YORK - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad questioned the official version of the Sept. 11 attacks and defended the right to cast doubt on the Holocaust in a tense appearance Monday at Columbia University, whose president accused the hard-line leader of behaving like "a petty and cruel dictator."



Ahmadinejad smiled at first but appeared increasingly agitated, decrying the "insults" and "unfriendly treatment." Columbia President Lee Bollinger and audience members took him to task over Iran's human-rights record and foreign policy, as well as Ahmadinejad's statements denying the Holocaust and calling for the disappearance of Israel.

"Mr. President, you exhibit all the signs of a petty and cruel dictator," Bollinger said, to loud applause.

He said Ahmadinejad's denial of the Holocaust might fool the illiterate and ignorant.

"When you come to a place like this it makes you simply ridiculous," Bollinger said. "The truth is that the Holocaust is the most documented event in human history."

Ahmadinejad rose, also to applause, and after a religious invocation, said Bollinger's opening was "an insult to information and the knowledge of the audience here."

"There were many insults and claims that were incorrect, regretfully," Ahmadinejad said, accusing Bollinger of falling under the influence of the hostile U.S. press and politicians. "I should not begin by being affected by this unfriendly treatment."

During a question and answer session, Ahmadinejad appeared tense and unsmiling, in contrast to more relaxed interviews and appearances earlier in the day.

In response to one audience, Ahmadinejad denied he was questioning the existence of the Holocaust: "Granted this happened, what does it have to do with the Palestinian people?"

But then he said he was defending the rights of European scholars, an apparent reference to a small number who have been prosecuted under national laws for denying or minimizing the Holocaust.

"There's nothing known as absolute," he said.

He reiterated his desire to visit ground zero to express sympathy with the victims of the Sept. 11 attacks, but then appeared to question whether al-Qaida was responsible.

"Why did this happen? What caused it? What conditions led to it?" he said. "Who truly was involved? Who was really involved and put it all together?"

Asked about executions of homosexuals in Iran, Ahmadinejad said the judiciary system executed violent criminals and high-level drug dealers, comparing them to microbes eliminated through medical treatment. Pressed specifically about punishment of homosexuals, he said: "In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country."

With the audience laughing derisively, he continued: "In Iran we do not have this phenomenon. I don't know who's told you that we have this."

Bollinger was strongly criticized for inviting Ahmadinejad to Columbia, and had promised tough questions in his introduction to Ahmadinejad's talk. But the strident and personal nature of his attack on the president of Iran was startling.

"You are either brazenly provocative or astonishingly uneducated," Bollinger told Ahmadinejad about the leader's Holocaust denial.

During his prepared remarks, the Iranian president did not address Bollinger's accusations directly.

Suzanne Maloney, a foreign policy fellow at the Brookings Institution, said Ahmadinejad's softer tone on Israel in this speech may reflect backlash in his own country.

"There's been widespread commentary in Iran, even on the far-right, that Ahmadinejad's position on Israel has hurt the country's diplomatic relations," said Maloney. "The fact that he was frankly unwilling to go as far as he has in the past suggests there may have been some consequences for him at home."

President Bush said Ahmadinejad's appearance at Columbia "speaks volumes about really the greatness of America."

He told Fox News Channel that if Bollinger considers Ahmadinejad's visit an educational experience for Columbia students, "I guess it's OK with me."

Other American officials were less sympathetic.

On Capitol Hill, conservatives said Columbia should not have invited Ahmadinejad to speak. Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said "there is a world of difference between not preventing Ahmadinejad from speaking and handing a megalomaniac a megaphone and a stage to use it."

Sen. Joseph Lieberman, I-Conn., said he thought Columbia's invitation to Ahmadinejad was a mistake "because he comes literally with blood on his hands."

Thousands of people jammed two blocks of 47th Street across from the United Nations to protest Ahmadinejad's visit to New York. Organizers claimed a turnout of tens of thousands. Police did not immediately have a crowd estimate.

The speakers, most of them politicians and officials from Jewish organizations, proclaimed their support for Israel and criticized the Iranian leader for his remarks questioning the Holocaust.

"We're here today to send a message that there is never a reason to give a hatemonger an open stage," New York City Council Speaker Christine Quinn said.

Protesters also assembled at Columbia. Dozens stood near the lecture hall where Ahmadinejad was scheduled to speak, linking arms and singing traditional Jewish folk songs about peace and brotherhood, while nearby a two-person band played "You Are My Sunshine."

Signs in the crowd displayed a range of messages, including one that read "We refuse to choose between Islamic fundamentalism and American imperialism."

 

[Ever onward]

I would never deny the existence of the Holocaust. I don't think this guy was either. He said he had been misquoted. He said that he was denying Palestinian involvement in the Holocaust and he was against the way that European historians aren't allowed to investigate it. I don't think anything should be set in stone as Gospel and blindly accepted as fact or face punishment by governments of the world.

Yes the Holocaust happened. That is completely fact. But people should be able to investigate it.

In response to one audience, Ahmadinejad denied he was questioning the existence of the Holocaust: "Granted this happened, what does it have to do with the Palestinian people?"

But then he said he was defending the rights of European scholars, an apparent reference to a small number who have been prosecuted under national laws for denying or minimizing the Holocaust.

These are just the quotes that back up what I said earlier. Here's one more quote for you.

Signs in the crowd displayed a range of messages, including one that read "We refuse to choose between Islamic fundamentalism and American imperialism."

Word

 

[Ever onward]

"I think spreading the word about how our government was behind 9/11 is much more worthy of my time!"

That actually is a much more worthy cause than persuing women.

That is so true. I love approaching women but yet I still get Approach Anxiety and the like. But what's happening with our government really puts things in perspective. Time is short folks. Better enjoy life now.

 

[g g g unit]

Then you obviously no nothing about the histories of Iran and Venezuela.

I think someone needs a history lesson -

Mohammad Mosaddeq was the iranian prez who helped the us defeat communism
and was thier best mate untill he refused to give bp the oil monopoly on iran instead choosing to nationalize the oil production. Suprise suprise Churchill and Eisenhower joined in a plot to overthrow him (google operation ajax). After using
propoganda and TERRORIST ATTACKS mosaddeq was eventually overthrown.

As for chavez he was kicked out in a coup ploted by the us and has won 8 elections in 10 years. While the oh so holy america still own the majority of the media in venzuala and are funding private armies to try and overthrow him again.

In a way i dont blame the us government for doing all this seeing as its owned by foreign companies/governments.

So speakeasy if you want to argue history dont ****ing come up with a half assed sentance saying im the uneducated one.

 

[Falcon]

...

And speaking of the Nazis, do you know how Hitler came to absolute power?

In 1933 He passed the Enabling Act. It gave him absolute power in a time of emergency. Do you know what emergency that was? His Parliament building was burned down and he blamed it on "Communist terrorists". He wanted it for the security of the country and to protect the German people. Germany had a constitution too but it became obsolete by Hitler's Enabling Act. Hmmm sound familiar?

So that's how liberty dies. A crisis is manufactured by corrupt members of government, legislation is passed to provide more security and freedom is willingly given up by the people "for the sake of the country".

It's happened before. It will happen again. I heard a famous quote once: "Governments are like fires, they MUST be watched".

Yea, it really is scary how the same thing with so many parallels is being repeated right before our eyes and going by unnoticed. But, I really am starting to believe that enough Americans are beginning to realize what is going on, enough to cause a commotion and possibly stop it from happening. What may this lead to... civil war? revolution? As a youth living in the US right now, I have a small feeling inside of me that I may have to one day take up arms and fight for the very things our forefathers fought for. Its a scary thought. After reading about the constitution and the people who crafted it, I have such a newfound respect for it. They never taught the true principles and the train of thought that led to it in school. Instead, you learn about how many members are in the senate and other completely irrelevant things. It's all about the principles of human nature behind it. Now that I know, I would never let somebody take the rights away that it has given me.

 

[Ever onward]

What bothers me most is that some people get so defensive when we question the government. This country was founded on people rising up and overthrowing an unjust government.

But make no mistake I'm not belittling our form of government. We have the best form of government in the history of the world. That does not mean that every person who gets elected is a moral person. There are too many interest groups with a hand in the current government.

Anyway, the other day after I learned of the impending North American Union, I emailed my buddy who is a radio host and follows politics carefully. I told him I'm going to keep my eyes open from now on. This is what he responded to me and I think it's good advice for all of us:

Yes, follow politics very carefully. There are some things going on that are very unconstitutional. There are two parties that are hell bent on a global economy/world order.
The average joe does not realize what danger we are in as a human civilization.

The North American Union is a by-product of Bill Clinton's NAFTA treaty. The Mexican truckers now have free pass into the US. We can do nothing...short of mobilize as minutemen and get categorized as a bigot and racist organization.

Be very careful of Hillary Clinton and her brand of socialism. She is not unlike the Stalins and the Maos of the world who think their "pretty little ideology" should be forced on everybody else.

If all else fails please consider Ron Paul before any democratic candidate. I will update you this week on exactly what we are up against.

 

[speakeasy]

In 1933 He passed the Enabling Act. It gave him absolute power in a time of emergency. Do you know what emergency that was? His Parliament building was burned down and he blamed it on "Communist terrorists". He wanted it for the security of the country and to protect the German people. Germany had a constitution too but it became obsolete by Hitler's Enabling Act. Hmmm sound familiar?

So that's how liberty dies. A crisis is manufactured by corrupt members of government, legislation is passed to provide more security and freedom is willingly given up by the people "for the sake of the country".

It's happened before. It will happen again. I heard a famous quote once: "Governments are like fires, they MUST be watched".

The problem is, everybody keeps saying how their freedoms are under assault and terrorism is being used as an excuse to take them away. But what I don't hear people suggesting is any alternatives. Ok, so here's your chance, tell us exactly what you would do to root out terrorist cells already in the country and at the same time make no changes to civil liberties.

 

[hope7]

Just wondering, seeing as though you believe 9/11 was a front for something much more nefarious and evil, how is it that you can continue to leave your house at all?

Lastly, how does arguing about this on THIS website do anything for your guys' (outrageous) cause? Do you think all these WBAFC's are going to say "God Damn, they're right!!! Now I must fight for the good cause! F*** trying to become a real playa with women, I think spreading the word about how our government was behind 9/11 is much more worthy of my time!"

No no, you got it all wrong. How can you be scared of women when you're afraid of the American govt. After knowing what the govt is up too, women aint no big thang.

Trips me out that people are always talking about how unfree we are, and all these liberties are being taken and we're turning fascist blah blah. Yet people like Ahmadenejad and Hugo Chavez can come here and speak their anti-American trash and then go home to a heroes welcome. Yeah, there is no freedom all right. Now imagine if Bush wanted to go Caracas or Tehran to give a speech.

Yeah!!!! Having better rights than Iran and whatever country Caracas is in is good enough!!! Screw those fancy freedom elitist Swiss! And their Swiss cheese too!!

 

[speakeasy]

Signs in the crowd displayed a range of messages, including one that read "We refuse to choose between Islamic fundamentalism and American imperialism."

I'd say that "American hegemony" would be a more accurate term. In order to have an empire you must have colonies. We have no colonies. But people like to throw out the term "imperialism" as a pejorative because it is emotionally charged. Personally, I'm glad we're the biggest guys on the block. Rather it be us than f*cking N. Korea or Sudan.

 

[speakeasy]

You said "Thats funny because i don't remember venezuala or iran ever otherthrowing a us president, butting thier nose into other countries business and constantly go on a killing spree with whatever nation they like."

Chavez led a coup himself againg a previous Venezuelan president. So I find it kind of laughable that he's now accusing someone of trying to launch one against him. Iran has certainly stuck it's nose into other country's business, and so has Venezuela. Iran has threatened Israel, has attacked Iraq(and they sure as hell didn't give a sh*t about Iraqi civilians dying) as well as funding shiite militias to attack Sunnis. Yet you claim they mind their own business. Chavez has bullied other nations like Mexico and Columbia at economic summits who oppose his sweeping socialist vision across Latin America.

I think someone needs a history lesson -

Mohammad Mosaddeq was the iranian prez who helped the us defeat communism
and was thier best mate untill he refused to give bp the oil monopoly on iran instead choosing to nationalize the oil production. Suprise suprise Churchill and Eisenhower joined in a plot to overthrow him (google operation ajax). After using
propoganda and TERRORIST ATTACKS mosaddeq was eventually overthrown.

As I said above, Iran has not minded its own business like you seem to think.

As for chavez he was kicked out in a coup ploted by the us and has won 8 elections in 10 years. While the oh so holy america still own the majority of the media in venzuala and are funding private armies to try and overthrow him again.

Chavez has never produced even a shred of evidence that the US was behind the coup that ousted him. And if he had evidence, then let him bring his case before the U.N. court. America owns the media in Venezuela. You got be f*cking joking. He has nationalized most of that sh*t long ago is even about the nationalize private education to teach communist propaganda.

 

[Falcon]

The problem is, everybody keeps saying how their freedoms are under assault and terrorism is being used as an excuse to take them away. But what I don't hear people suggesting is any alternatives. Ok, so here's your chance, tell us exactly what you would do to root out terrorist cells already in the country and at the same time make no changes to civil liberties.

There is an alternative... and that is to follow the constitution.

ARTICLE II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Obviously a corrupt government does not want this because it is afraid of the people revolting. Terrorist would think twice about attacking anyone in the US. Tie this in with a strong and just court system, and it will work. The government today is trying to take this right away from us little by little.

 

[Ever onward]

Obviously a corrupt government does not want this because it is afraid of the people revolting. Terrorist would think twice about attacking anyone in the US. Tie this in with a strong and just court system, and it will work. The government today is trying to take this right away from us little by little.

Worse. If they take away the 2nd Amendment the only one who will be baring arms are criminals.

 

[shop until I die!]

This thread is a perfect example of the far-left taking the 1st amendment and making a mockery of it. Freedom without self-control is pointless.

 

[Ever onward]

Far left? As far as I know it's those on the left that are for gun control. I just made a post AGAINST gun control.

I don't subscribe to any party as my views can't be pigeon-holed.

 

[speakeasy]

There is an alternative... and that is to follow the constitution.

Complete dodge and non-sequitor to the question I asked. I'll ask it once again, what specifically do you guys propose that will allow us to fight any terrorist cells within our country yet not infringe on personal liberties?