The Zeitgeist

[Ever onward]

In this case? Experts and years of research and study that explains the reasoning behind every 9/11 conspiracy theory. WTC 7, the Lone Spire, lack of Pentagon Debris, hijacker sightings, etc. etc. None of it has been backed by a credible source. Occam's razor. Only someone with a specific agenda or an axe to grind would try to go against FACTS.

You want facts? You haven't even seen the film so you can't dispute what facts (or lies) are presented.

Fact: We are on the verge of being forced to carry National ID cards

Fact: Bush has been in contact with the leaders of Mexico and Canada to create a North American Union. You say you love this country, well it may soon be gone. Check out this source and note, it's a conservative source and not a crazy left wing agenda.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15233&c=1&tb=1&pb=1&gd=05302006

George Bush doesn't sound like much of a patriot to me. I'm a patriot. I love this country. But that does not mean I will blindly trust the government. Do not mistake people questioning the government as being the same as being anti-American.

In my America, people wouldn't be forced to carry National ID cards.

In my America, there wouldn't be talk of people being injected with micro chips.

In my America, the President wouldn't hold a secret meeting with the leaders of foreign nations and make agreements that pisses all over the Constitution.

I'll leave you with a final quote on what makes a patriot.



"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government"

-Edward Abbey

 

[Charm&Style]

You're really sick, you know that? Maybe you can go with jonwon on his trip to go tell the 9/11 victims' surviving families that "they had it coming" while he tells them that their death was "a joke". Absolutely disgraceful comment.

You clearly quote me verbatim yet apparently have confused the victims of 911 as the government. You know whats sad, I have many times spoken with ppl who have lost family, friends, and whatnot in the 911 attack and they too are questioning this government, why is the US such greedy bastards and didnt even bother to interrogate saudi arabia during the time of the attacks? Again, go research the extremist british allied extremest cults (wahabis) that are responsible for sooo many terror crimes.

You go on stating "bro keep away from the far left" but bro you've gone way to far right, you make it seem as if the government in the US is down right perfect. thats "sick".

 

[Ever onward]

I just emailed my congressmen and asked them to stand in opposition the creation of a North American Union. I urge all of you in the states to do the same.

I foresee myself becoming very active in politics over the next year. Be careful who you vote for next year. The results of the election could decide whether we still have a USA or not.

Be active people. Educate yourselves. It is so easy to get caught up in our personal lives and our relationships that we get lulled to sleep meanwhile our government is quietly stealing our country out from underneath us.

Spread the word

 

[Last Man Standing]

Ever Onward, we are heading towards fascism and a One World Government!! The elections are a fraud -- Ron Paul is our only hope and they will kill him or change votes as they always do!

We don't need to investigate Saudi Arabia - we own the Saudi, pakistani, turkey, and most middle east rulers - as we did Saddam! We need to investigate israel, england, and our own rulers who carried out the attacks! Listen yo Alex Jones RADIO PROGRAM - at INFOWARS.COM http://www.infowars.com

 

[blueguy]

Thanks for the movie.

 

[Last Man Standing]

Jonwon, the popular mechanic piece is propaganda - directed by the cousin of our homeland security chief Chertoff, who is a citizen of Israel!! read this... http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2006/100806popularmechanics.htm

 

[BlackJackal]

You don't see prominent physicist coming up with moon landing or holocaust conspiracies. I doubt the people who designed the tallest buildings in the world (at their time) were loony left wing liberals.

No doubt, the loony left wing will believe anything regardless of evidence. And they will probably come up crazy-ass stories. However, you shouldn't let a few crazies stop you from looking at well documented evidence and opinions of top scientists. There are bad 9/11 documentaries, but The Zeitgeist is defiantly a good one.

The popular mechanics issue (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=4#steel)
Did not cover a lot of the questions raised and, in my opinion, did not debunk most of the conspiracy claims sufficiently. Check it out for yourself and compare the arguments.

The physics of 9/11 site, goes into lots of detail: http://physics911.net/.

I doubt the families of victims of 9/11 would be angry at finding out everything they could about that tragedy. The pushed for the 9/11 commission even after Bush repeatedly tried to stop its creation. They also did not seem too happy that Bush would only talk to them only with Cheney ( the commission wanted to talk to them seperatly) and refused to testify under oath.

I can understand why some of the events brought up in the movie might anger some people. Those people seem to have an emotional connection with Bush that most people could only establish after knowing someone personally.
For those people, I recommend to looking into the events brought up by the movie further instead of telling people to shut up, ingore, and forget about those events. In my opinion, that shows a lack of confidence those people have in their president. If their president is everything they believe he is, research and debate will only support their conceptions, not debunk them.

Debate and research can only lead to truth. Maybe it'll take a few turns, but it will lead to truth eventually.

Exactly. Blind faith is unhealthy regardless of which side you're on.

 

[Last Man Standing]

The "right wing" fascist conservatives are the looniest fcvks ever!!!

Ever Onward, we are heading towards fascism and a One World Government!! The elections are a fraud -- Ron Paul is our only hope and they will kill him or change votes as they always do!

We don't need to investigate Saudi Arabia - we own the Saudi, pakistani, turkey, and most middle east rulers - as we did Saddam! We need to investigate israel, england, and our own rulers who carried out the attacks! Listen yo Alex Jones RADIO PROGRAM - at INFOWARS.COM http://www.infowars.com

 

[Ricky]

This is just sick entertainment.

I'd love to meet some of you in person. Now I know why you have to come to a website to get tips to meet up girls. You are delusional and lack social skills.

I came here to improve my game, but some of you are hopeless if your world is so distorted as to believe movies like this.

Do you believe ET is real?

 

[Ever onward]

Read this:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15233&c=1&tb=1&pb=1&gd=05302006

 

[g g g unit]

The "right wing" fascist conservatives are the looniest fcvks ever!!!

Ever Onward, we are heading towards fascism and a One World Government!! The elections are a fraud -- Ron Paul is our only hope and they will kill him or change votes as they always do!

We don't need to investigate Saudi Arabia - we own the Saudi, pakistani, turkey, and most middle east rulers - as we did Saddam! We need to investigate israel, england, and our own rulers who carried out the attacks! Listen yo Alex Jones RADIO PROGRAM - at INFOWARS.COM http://www.infowars.com

You cant call everyone whose a right wing conservative a fascist and a loony then say you support ron paul and alex jones.

And the U.S certainly don't own saudi, seeing as they own huge shares in in the nyse etc. They've just been working with saudi to destroy the dollar and cause another depression.

But most of what you said is true.

 

[hope7]

Now I know why you have to come to a website to get tips to meet up girls
.
.
.
I came here to improve my game

self owned?

 

[Deep Dish]

9/11 Deniers use the same tactics as Holocaust Deniers.

• They concentate on their opponent's weak points, while rarely saying anything definitive about their own position. Deniers emphasize the inconsistencies between eyewitness accounts, for example.
• They exploit errors made by scholars who are making opposing arguments, implying that because a few of their opponents' conclusions were wrong, all of their opponents' conclusions must be wrong.
• They use quotations, usually taken out of context, from prominent mainstream figures to buttress their own position.
• They mistake genuine, honest debates between scholars about certain points within a field for a dispute about the existence of the entire field.
• They focus on what is not known and ignore what is known, emphasize data that fit and discount data that do not fit.

9/11 deniers, as with Holocaust deniers, follow the same pattern as other fringe movements.

• Early on, the movement includes a wide diversity of thought and members representing the extreme frings of society, and it has little success in entering the mainstream.
• As the movement grows and evolves, some members attempt to dissociate themselves and their movement from the radial fringe and try to establish scientific or scholarly credentials.
• During this drive toward acceptability, emphasis moves away from antiestablishment rhetoric and toward a more positive statement of beliefs.
• To enter public institutions such as schools, the movement will use the First Amendment and claim that its "freedom of speech" is being violated when its views are not allowed to be heard.
• To get the public's attention, the movement tries to shift the burden of proof from itself to the establishment, demanding "just one proof".

(Source: Michael Shermer)

Look at the cited sources of Zeitgeist:

Griffin, David Ray - 911 The Myth and the Reality
Ruppert, Michael -The Truth and Lies of 9-11
Berger, Michael - Improbable Collapse
Avatar, LLC - 911 Mysteries
Hilder, Anthony J.- Illuminazi 911
Mugford, Dustin - September 11th Revisited
vonKleist, Dave - 911 In Plane Site
Hufschmid, Eric - Painful Deceptions
Rodriguez, William - What really happened on 9/11?
Zwicker, Barrie - 911 The Great Conspiracy
Duffy, John - 911 Press For Truth
Jones, Alex - Martial Law 9/11
Jones, Alex - TerrorStorm
Hilder, Anthony J.-The Greatest Lie Ever Sold
Avery, Dylan - Loose Change 2nd Edition
Humphrey, George - 911 The Great Illusion

Clearly, confirmation bias. Clearly, not works of academia. Clearly, ignoring Popular Mechanics and Purdue University.

 

[Holland]

Let's use some 'DEUS Logic' right back at him.

Dude, why should people listen to you on this subject, when you're in top ten of people on this site spitting pure garbage in peoples minds on pretty much every thread, yet you don't apply any of the valuable tips other people give you.

I don't buy the whole 9/11 thing. Inside job or not, people are being misled. Powning a country just because you're being suspicious is just not cool. I heard they also want to pown Iran. Don't people realise where this is going to. Hitler did the same thing. First he invaded one country, then another, then another. The masses just kept accepting it and before ya know it any non-conformist got dealt with. WWII was only 60-70 years ago, people don't realise that, there could still be moron's with a scarcity mentality being obsessed with power running around. Just as much in America as in Germany (especially). Average individuals are way to busy being ignorant, because that's a much easyer thing to do. Just shut your eyes untill it's too late. They are way to vain to think that their government would do such things. "Sure they did a hundred years ago, sure the Germans did it, sure that another person did it in another time. But now? No way, not in my time, not my government."

Look, I'm not saying I know everything under the sun, but if other country's are being exploited and evidence on 9/11 is shaking on all sides I believe I have a right to question things and not agree with sacrificing freedom and the whole war on terrorism thing.

 

[hope7]

9/11 Deniers use the same tactics as Holocaust Deniers.

• They concentate on their opponent's weak points, while rarely saying anything definitive about their own position. Deniers emphasize the inconsistencies between eyewitness accounts, for example.
• They exploit errors made by scholars who are making opposing arguments, implying that because a few of their opponents' conclusions were wrong, all of their opponents' conclusions must be wrong.
• They use quotations, usually taken out of context, from prominent mainstream figures to buttress their own position.
• They mistake genuine, honest debates between scholars about certain points within a field for a dispute about the existence of the entire field.
• They focus on what is not known and ignore what is known, emphasize data that fit and discount data that do not fit.

9/11 deniers, as with Holocaust deniers, follow the same pattern as other fringe movements.

• Early on, the movement includes a wide diversity of thought and members representing the extreme frings of society, and it has little success in entering the mainstream.
• As the movement grows and evolves, some members attempt to dissociate themselves and their movement from the radial fringe and try to establish scientific or scholarly credentials.
• During this drive toward acceptability, emphasis moves away from antiestablishment rhetoric and toward a more positive statement of beliefs.
• To enter public institutions such as schools, the movement will use the First Amendment and claim that its "freedom of speech" is being violated when its views are not allowed to be heard.
• To get the public's attention, the movement tries to shift the burden of proof from itself to the establishment, demanding "just one proof".

(Source: Michael Shermer)

Look at the cited sources of Zeitgeist:Clearly, confirmation bias. Clearly, not works of academia. Clearly, ignoring Popular Mechanics and Purdue University.

The tactics you mentioned were also used convince people that the Vietnam was was an unwinable war. The tactics you described are used to spread the viewpoint of any radical thought.

I am also critical of the sources section. Very critical. They should have noted where they got all their news clips such as the one where the WTC designers discussed the crashes. If they don't improve it, the documentary will be taken apart easily as you have just demonstrated. It seemed that many of the news clips were taken from mainstream news sources such as CNN, but if they don't cite it, people can just say they made it up.

The Zeitgeist discussed many of the explanations provided in the popular mechanics issue. The popular mechanics issue only provided explanations, not fully confident debunks of the conspiracy theories.

You don't have numerous scientists supporting holocaust or moon landing conspiracy theories:

http://physics911.net/
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/credandexper.html
http://stj911.org/index.html
http://www.journalof911studies.com/
http://www.ae911truth.org/
http://home.att.net/~south.tower/911Jonescuttercharges1.htm
http://media.www.dailytexanonline.c...lly.Controlled.Demolition-2842896-page2.shtml
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1822764959599063248

 

[blueguy]

Regardless of evidence -

An inside job is a more plausible explanation in my opinion. One thing is clear. There was a motive (conspiracy) in destroying the twin towers. Whether it was a conspiracy is not the question. It was. The question is which more conspiracy is more plausible?

A group of people doing it because they think they would reap rewards in an afterlife?
A group of people doing it so they could make a lot of money?

Human nature is driven to act on what it knows to benefit from based on immediate knowledge of the present state.

 

[speakeasy]

The 9/11 "truth" movement has become something of a cult/religion in itself. I wonder if they also believe that the WTC bombing that happened in the early 90s was an inside job as well? I wouldn't be surprised.

I remember after the London bombings last year, the very next day, conspiracists were already on their blogs declaring that it was the MI5 that did it and it was used to stage a justification to go into Iran.

 

[blueguy]

Why not?

Maybe it is easier to believe when you have seen and used such manipulations in business yourself? (Not killing, mind you) Things like that happen every single day.

 

[Ever onward]

I remember after the London bombings last year, the very next day, conspiracists were already on their blogs declaring that it was the MI5 that did it and it was used to stage a justification to go into Iran.

Well if you watch the film that this thread is about it mentions the subway bombing. Apparently, the agents were conducting a drill for the very same type of bombing scenario at the exact time and location that the bombing occurred. Sounds fishy.

 

[Last Man Standing]

The 9/11 "truth" movement has become something of a cult/religion in itself. I wonder if they also believe that the WTC bombing that happened in the early 90s was an inside job as well? I wouldn't be surprised.

You are not up to date on the reality of things! Yes, The FBI was involved in the plot and they had an insider that assisted them and they used real explosives instead of fake bombs! This info is 14 years old...http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/wtcbomb.html

When I speak of conservatives - I speak of the new Neo-conservatives which are not conservatives but traitors to this country and should be tried and severely punished for treason!!