The Ultimate Bootcamp

[Dapper Swindler]

Here I am sitting at work. It's 3:15 a.m. Tomorrow I start bootcamp and just thinking about it is causing me to visibly shake. But with apprehension or excitement? Both I think. I just read a lot of Walden's journal which I reccoment to anyone thinking about bootcamp.

I'm new here but you may remember me from AFC posts like this:
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57519
And this:
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57729

Voted "most shy" in my high school. Never had a girlfriend. Never had a girl show any interest in me my entire life. Don't know what that feels like. The girls I have forced myself to talk to regarded me as "creepy" and "seemed like he was forcing himself to talk to me". And actually hearing things like that from someone will destroy confidence more than anything else. So when a guy like me starts bootcamp, you're not going to find more entertaining stories on television. Maybe they'll make a movie about how I went from a WWWBAFC to a DJ. Or maybe I will not muster up enough courage for one hello and then never report back here because of the shame and failure. You'll have to wait and find out.

I have some questions, but I'm just trying to get through tomorrow. I'll ask them later. I have to thank this forum and all the people in it for giving me the inspiration, hope, ability, and support.

Sorry if this post comes off a little strange, I can't really think as straight as I normally can right now.

 

[One on One]

Good luck!

 

[Dapper Swindler]

Week 1, Day 1

I overslept a little. Hit the snooze for an extra 15. But what is the point of a snooze button. I never hit the snooze and wake up and say "Boy I was dead tired 15 minutes ago but now I'm wide awake hooray!!" I brought up the songs that are suggested for this bootcamp thing. "Beautiful Stranger" and some other stuff. Then before I left home I checked the message board for some last minute inspiration. Unfortunately I found a thread about a guy wanting to bang a 15 year old. But then the guy above me posted "Good luck" and I felt better.

So 8 hellos. It wasn't easy. People just won't hold eye contact, they look down, or they look away. One older fellow looked at me and I got off a hello. Then I went to class and found the lecture hall empty. I then remembered something about class being cancelled. A girl showed up then as confused as I and we had a pretty good reason to start talking. Turns out class was cancelled. But this girls name is Amber and she told me she has seen me all over campus. Hmm interesting. So it was nice meeting her.

So since class was cancelled I had two hours to walk around and work on my 8 hellos. Most of the time I say hello and they don't look up because they probably need some time to react to the situation. They think for a second "did that guy just say hello to me?" And then I'm already gone. But as the day went on I got a little more direct and some people smiled and said hello back.

In my second class I sat next to a Japanese girl. Now I've taken years of Japanese classes and I've been Japan. But I didn't tell her this at first. This is the rule to withhold commonalities that I read everywhere. DJ's can you back me up on this? I could have easily been like "You're Japanese?! I've been to Japan so now you have to suck my ****!!" No. She was telling me she was from Nagoya and I let it slip that I've been there like it was no big deal. Like it's just one of the many cool things my bad self has done. She was very impressed! I can't wait to talk to her again. I should have a pretty good shot.

Now I did 8 hellos but it isn't that impressive. I passed literally thousands of people today. I was walking around campus for hours. But something else great did happen, I kept running into people I've met known but not very well and had a lot of discussions.

New people I met today: Amber, Sayaka
People I had conversations with that I had known before briefly: Scotty, Elizabeth, Persephone, Wataro, Some dude that I don't know the name of, some girl that I don't know the name of, Joel, maybe more that I can't think of.

After 8 hellos I had to go home and get ready for a dinner party I was having. I invited three friends. Two of them are a couple trying to get back together, the other I have designs on (hereafter referred to as "Girl A"). I cleaned my apartment, scrubbed and swept. I cooked a hawaiian stir fry dinner with potatos, salad, rice, etc. I had candles and soft music.

I wasn't very entertaining at dinner although everyone was so impressed that I did all this work. Then we played with my chinchilla and watched him take a dust bath. We didn't talk too much, but that's okay because we have before and we didn't need to impress each other at this point. I know I impressed Girl A two nights ago by being hysterically funny and I'm glad I got to make her dinner.

I took Girl A to work (we have the same job but work in different buildings). Before we got here we went to her apartment for her to get some things and she showed me around. She did a lot of fast talking almost like she was nervous and I became very shy. Or at least I couldn't think of anything to say. I think I clam up when I'm on one on one.

I told her I wanted to take her home because she works until 4am like me and she would have to walk home. She told me to talk to her online and gave me her AIM name. I've been giving her increasingly unsubtle hints that I'm interested in her. I'm not sure how to pursue Girl A at this point. She is very different and I just don't think the DJ thing will work. I know she wouldn't be able to stand being C&F. I'd hate to blow a chance with her by being C&F when it could have worked out if I was just myself. Sorry to go against the DJ teachings brothers, but I think she needs a little different strategy. I also don't want to embarass myself because she is a member of a close circle of friends. Other people are already teasing both of us a little that we're a couple.

Also the other girl I invited to dinner and her boyfriend teased me in front of everyone about how I flirted with that Japanese girl in my class (she is also in the class). Do you think that would hurt me with Girl A or help me?

So not a terribly exciting day of bootcamp but I hope you guys will read this and let me know what you think. Thanks.

 

[dualman7]

Nice job bro. You motivated me to do this also. Keep up the good work.

 

[One on One]

Hey man, I didn't realize you were doing The Bootcamp. Anyways, I think it's a bad idea. If you look at the Bootcamp history, less than 10% probably even make it to week 3. It doesn't really help a lot of people. Weeks 1 and 2 are easy and you'll feel good about EC and Hi's, but that doesn't really translate into talking to hot women.

I think it's a much better idea to try to do what jwhite did (I'm planning on trying this soon, too). Here's what you do when you see a chick you want to talk to:

"Can I ask you a quick question?"
"Sure"
"Are you single?"
Yes or No
If she asks why or something, just give her some quick answer that you like meeting people or something. Then, if she's single ask for her number.

jwhite's results:

Phone Numbers/Approaches percentage: 16/37= 43.24%
Dates/Approaches percentage: 6/37= 16.22
Makeouts/Approaches percentage: 3/37= 8.11%
Lays/Approaches percentage: 1/37= 2.70%

Dates/Phone Numbers percentage: 6/16= 37.5%
Makeouts/Phone Numbers percentage: 3/16= 18.75%
Lays/Phone Numbers percentage: 1/16= 6.25%

Makeouts/Dates percentage: 3/6= 50%
Lays/Dates percentage: 1/6= 16.67%

Lays/Makeouts percentage: 1/3= 33.33%


So, basically you can skip all the BS of Bootcamp and get a number in about 3 out of every 7 girls you approach and you actually overcome your fear of the approach. Good luck.

Also, I might add I think jwhite's idea is a helluva lot easier than the Bootcamp because all you have to do is say like one line. She's gonna think you're gonna ask her a question about directions or some **** so she won't have her guard up, then when you ask if she's single, she'll probably get the hing and maybe be a bit confused....anyways, it's easier this way, puts the ball in your court. Don't waste your time making eye contact with old men.

 

[Tao of Steve]

remember - self improvment and becoming a dj is a long term commitment. dont ecpect radical changes in a few days. take babysteps and celebrate each step. it took you your whole life to become the way u r, so it will take some time to get where you are going.


but take pride - you took the first step of realizing what u were like, and deciding to change it.

already, u went from most shy guy in school, to saying hi to a number of people, and iniating convo's with strangers.

in doing this, u r begining the process of taking control of your life and destiny.

kep it up - keep building yourself up!

 

[Lifeforce]

This is great to read! Keep up the work, you'll be a new man after you get the first experience under your belt!

And considering C&F you have to feel what the girls will take, some don't like it, others eat it up like it's candy. There is no rules set in stone, all things written here are guidelines, some must be broken sometimes to get positive results. Listen to your gut, not your mind.

Keep us posted.

 

[Dapper Swindler]

I've been meaning to get back here and post. Nothing relevant happened this weekend. I didn't go to campus on Friday and was out of town visiting friends Saturday and Sunday. I didn't do any hellos until today.

Here is the relevant part.
Yesterday I hung out with some friends including Girl A. I think I caught a case of oneitis over the weekend. So things seemed awkward. We all watched a movie and she left abruptly afterwards and it really hurt my feelings.

So I felt awful and I did something stupid. I talked to this other girl that I know who doesn't like me more than a friend. Without going into detail, I ended up feeling much worse.

It's hard to explain how bad I was feeling. Usually people get frustrated with words and tell actions such as trying to commit suicide in order to get people to understand how badly they feel. I hate it when people do that. So without talking about suicide, just understand that I felt bad.

So today it was very hard to start back up with bootcamp. I didn't talk to anyone in my classes. Finally I decided that I should just walk around campus after class and try to take care of it then. I was able to do 16 in two hours.

Then we did the usual Tuesday night at Buffalo Wild Wings. I called Girl A to invite her but she didn't answer, and she didn't call me back when I left a message. But she was there anyway. And it was very clear that she didn't want anything to do with me. One she saw that the only chair available was next to me she actually went to a fvcking other table and got a chair and brought it over to our table. Sometimes I imagine people not liking me because I'm so insecure, but I did not imagine that.

But I did get a chance to speak with her tonight on messenger. I had to ask if I had done anything to offend her or weird her out. At least she was honest, I did.

Remember the whole dinner thing I did? I wrote about it in my last post. My intention was to show her I was a cool guy by inviting her and two other people over for dinner. Sounds simple. But she did not like that at all. Apparently the thing weirded her out and offended her. That's right. Because I fvcking made dinner. If that is not a slap in the face of all that is not ridiculous then I don't know what is.

So I admitted that I kind of liked her and was just doing something nice by making dinner. But that plan backfired so badly. Now I've created an awkward situation and have been rejected after I thought I did something really good.

This girl isn't even cute or interesting, so to be rejected like this after I showed her my best humor, personality, and kindness is the biggest insult yet. This happens every time I think I have a chance with someone. The exact same thing has happened with the last two girls I thought I had a chance with.

My confidence is lower than ever. I feel like a complete piece of worthless **** and no one will ever care about me no matter what I do.

EDIT: I am intently watching this thread right now, waiting for some kind of encouragement which I badly need.

 

[dualman7]

You sound like a cool kid, don't you ever allow yourself to feel bad because of someone else. You were right on the money with the whole dinner, and if she has a problem with that, then she isn't someone who deserves any thoughts. I know it hurts, but the only way you'll get over it is action, not by sitting around and thinking about this.

Remember this rule, never spend more time thinking about an event, than the actual amount of time it took for an event to occur.

 

[SealTeamSix]

I honestly think that saying random hi's and hello's to strangers are totally idiotic.

I know shy guys have problem saying stuff, but if people give u odd look when u say this random hi's, would your confidence go up?

Plus, I would not try to force the EC. Really, EC will happens automatically as conversations goes.. as long as ur conversation is stimulating. Unless you are stunning looking, chix won't EC you. Why would they? Thats where your personality kicks in. When you charm her, make her giggle, get her into ur reality, she will EC you.

Guy, forget the random hi's. I do not think it will help u much, you will only get tired.

Here is what you do. Find yourself a nice wing (for social proof) then approach girls (yeah only girls) then TALK. say hi or hello, but talk as much as you can. That way u will improve.

You can do this without wing. but good wing can certainly help as did my wing for me.

Another thing. Take notes. Every approach should be analyzed, the goods and the bads. Always think.. Doing mindless approaches won't help you.

Good Luck.

 

[One on One]

Originally posted by SealTeamSix
I honestly think that saying random hi's and hello's to strangers are totally idiotic.

I know shy guys have problem saying stuff, but if people give u odd look when u say this random hi's, would your confidence go up?

Plus, I would not try to force the EC. Really, EC will happens automatically as conversations goes.. as long as ur conversation is stimulating. Unless you are stunning looking, chix won't EC you. Why would they? Thats where your personality kicks in. When you charm her, make her giggle, get her into ur reality, she will EC you.

Guy, forget the random hi's. I do not think it will help u much, you will only get tired.

Here is what you do. Find yourself a nice wing (for social proof) then approach girls (yeah only girls) then TALK. say hi or hello, but talk as much as you can. That way u will improve.

You can do this without wing. but good wing can certainly help as did my wing for me.

Another thing. Take notes. Every approach should be analyzed, the goods and the bads. Always think.. Doing mindless approaches won't help you.

Good Luck.

I think this is some of the best advice on this board. I've been here long enough to finally realize that all the tactics and bull**** are just that, bull****. There's enough DJs on here that if we just would wing up and TALK to girls, we'd all improve a helluva lot. Of course, this would acquire everyone on here to actually be willing to take action and for the more skilled DJs, they'd have to be willing to teach and put up with some timidity.

 

[Dapper Swindler]

Originally posted by dualman7
You sound like a cool kid, don't you ever allow yourself to feel bad because of someone else. You were right on the money with the whole dinner, and if she has a problem with that, then she isn't someone who deserves any thoughts. I know it hurts, but the only way you'll get over it is action, not by sitting around and thinking about this.

Remember this rule, never spend more time thinking about an event, than the actual amount of time it took for an event to occur.

Thank you so much. I needed someone to tell me that I didn't do anything wrong by inviting people over for dinner. I do something that makes perfect sense to me but turns out to be a complete disaster like this so often that I question my sanity. I just don't think this girl has any reason to be offended and weirded out. If she doesn't want to go out with me then that's fine, but I don't see what the big deal is.

I realize I do a lot of whining but I learned a very good lesson today. If I let one problem get to me then it is going to compound into other problems. So I have a ton of other problems to worry about that were caused by me feeling bad about something else. And now I feel bad about those problems which is going to end up causing more problems. Is anyone familiar with this cycle?

Anyway, it looks like I won't be able to complete the bootcamp exercise by tomorrow. The two days that I had my heart in it I was doing fine, but other problems have distracted me. I'm going to give myself until Saturday to complete the 50 hellos.

P.S. Thanks to everyone who is offering other suggestions other than bootcamp. I think I understand what you are saying but I think different people need to take different approaches. Right now, this is what is working for me.

 

[Dapper Swindler]

I just can't take it. I made her laugh and we were getting along. I spend a great deal of time making a nice dinner. I invite her and some other friends and suddenly I'm the biggest creep on the planet. And this is just the latest flashing sign that this is all hopeless. How can I talk to women now? My entire life all I've been told is that I'm a creep and no one will ever like me.

 

[CharmaLeo]

My entire life all I've been told is that I'm a creep and no one will ever like me.

Ha haha and then you'll live in a van down the river hahaha

Even the creepiest will eventually hook up. It is a matter of checking your balls and make sure that you still have them.

You are a MAN. A fuc king MAN. Glue this to your brain.

You do not need approval from anybody to tell you if you did the right thing or not. If a ho freaks out by something you did then it is her problem. How about you tell me whether you did the right thing or not. That's all that matters.

Maybe that is why the DJ path is the loneliest path. Get over it.

You are a MAN. stop feeling sorry for yourself.

I would rather see you inspiring CONFIDENCE rather than SELF PITY in spite of the situation.

Get up, strap on your balls and keep going until you succeed.

 

[Dapper Swindler]

Thanks. It's hard to find confidence. Despite everyone else telling and showing me that I am a failure, I can only try to reason it out in my own mind that I am a worthwhile person. But even my best reasons cannot hold up against so much conflicting judgment from these other people. If I could just get one person interested in me then I know I could put an end to this myth and things would change.

Thanks for reading about me.

 

[CharmaLeo]

Reasoning means 5hit. You must DO. ACT.

Starting tomorrow give yourself permission to "missbehave" once a day everyday. Whatever it is, talk back, cut somebody off, steal someones parking spot, etc.

You have nothing to lose. so stop putting all your chics (one) in one basket. Relax, its not the end of the fvcking world.

 

[SealTeamSix]

Originally posted by Dapper Swindler
Thanks. It's hard to find confidence. Despite everyone else telling and showing me that I am a failure, I can only try to reason it out in my own mind that I am a worthwhile person. But even my best reasons cannot hold up against so much conflicting judgment from these other people. If I could just get one person interested in me then I know I could put an end to this myth and things would change.

Thanks for reading about me.

" It's hard to find confidence"

You find confidence through series of positive experience or results. When you talk to a girl and she splashes a plesent smile, thats + result. You see more of those, you'll feel better ..

"I am a failure"

Are you a failure? Tell us why people tell you these?


"I am a worthwhile person"

Every being on this planet are here for a reason.

"against so much conflicting judgment from these other people"

Tell them to fucc off


"If I could just get one person interested in me"

As long as you think like this, you will have hard time finding girl.
Why are you that desperate? Please do not be. Please take my advise that I gave you earlier in the thread. Find a wing and starting doing some fun sargin!

Next time you see woman, remember the following:

Don'ts:

0. Never buy her or pay for her stuff!
1. Never talk about yourself unless she ask you.
2. Never b!tch
3. Never talk about negative topics
4. Never act needy or desperate
5. Never rude
6. Never give out your name unless she asks for it!

DO:

1. Look PRESENTABLE. Very important.
2. Talk about NOTHING as much as you can.
3. Make her laugh. if you do 2. correctly, 3. happens automatically!
4. be Polite to her and others
5. MAKE OBSERVATION! See and feel what's going on. Make comment on it. ie) if she is blushing, then tell her she is blushing, then bust her by saying .. I wanna make you blush more .. etc..

PS: 5. is the most important aspect of my game.

 

[dj2l8]

Keep It Up

Hey Dapper,

Keep the chin up kid. One big thing about bootcamp is just learning not to give a f*ck and moving on to the next. What SealTeam and OneonOne don't realize is that AFCdom often means one would rather chew one's arm off than make a cold approach. Seal and One, you guys are probably seasoned DJ's and this stuff is probably easy for you. You gotta help old Daps here along...telling him to go up and ask if the girl is single is like telling a kid who's afraid of heights to go skydiving.

Boot camp is definitely not for everyone, many of the crowd here could easily start at week 3. But just as many NEED to start at week one.

And hell, if it works for 1 out of a 100 guys, that's one more DJ in the mix right?

Go get em Daps!

 

[ZMan]

Dapper:

Women are a pain in the a55. They complicate everything. Don't let there weird reactions reflect on your self worth. You need to know your own self worth. Use the C&F, it will help give you power. Quit worrying about what they think of you. Some of them are all F'd up in the head anyway. Some are cruel. Wemon do not control who and what you are. You do. You are a man. We protect, we provide, that is why they love us. For our strength! Be strong man. You will find that really pretty wemon can take some real heavy insults, don't worry about it.

 

[Dapper Swindler]

Originally posted by SealTeamSix
" It's hard to find confidence"

You find confidence through series of positive experience or results. When you talk to a girl and she splashes a plesent smile, thats + result. You see more of those, you'll feel better ..

"I am a failure"

Are you a failure? Tell us why people tell you these?


"I am a worthwhile person"

Every being on this planet are here for a reason.

"against so much conflicting judgment from these other people"

Tell them to fucc off


"If I could just get one person interested in me"

As long as you think like this, you will have hard time finding girl.
Why are you that desperate? Please do not be. Please take my advise that I gave you earlier in the thread. Find a wing and starting doing some fun sargin!

Confidence is from positive results from actions. That's the problem, I don't get positive results. I get negative results. So instead of helping my confidence it makes it worse. I know I seem desperate and I am. And I know how bad that is. I'm trying to work on it but it gets more difficult with each failure. I think your wingman idea is great but I just don't have any. I posted something in the wingman forum to find some but no one has responded yet. I don't have any friends right now that would make good wingmen. Thanks for the advice. I'll post again later but I'm busy at the moment.