The "Shaming" thread

[STR8UP]

I'm was thinking of a reply for backbreakers latest thread, and it gave me an idea.

Lets start a list of words and phrases women have created to shame men to promote the feminine agenda. I'll throw a couple out there-

- Commitmentphobic (probably the most common)
- Mid-life crisis
- Dirty old man
- Shallow

Lets hear some more.....

 

[ketostix]

I can think of some really nasty ones they sometimes use to shame older men for being attracted to younger women:

-superficial
-misogynist
-chavuanist
-creepy
-predatory
-immature

 

[MrLuvr]

These are the big ones that i see the most often for older guys who want an attractive, young woman

immature
can't relate to women his own age
pervert
creepy
mid-life crisis
just looking for arm candy
only wants her for one thing

 

[STR8UP]

Only a few posts so far and we ARE on a mature board, but the trend seems to be older women trying to shame older men. I guess it really IS an older woman/older man thing, since younger women have not yet reached the age where it is in their best interest to put a man down for his choices- at that stage of their life they are living it up and THEY are the ones getting attention from men age 18 to 50's and beyond. I know this isn't 100% exclusive to guys 30+, but I suppose it gets worse the older a man gets.

Just another refreshing quality that younger women tend to share.

You notice how it DOES rub off on younger women though, because you hear them parroting some of these same things such as an older man hitting on a younger woman is "creepy, predatory, dirty, etc." yet is is not uncommon to see a younger woman with an older man. And if that guy has his sh!t together, her peers aren't shaming her, they are JEALOUS. My last LTR said she never would have thought she would have been attracted to a guy 10 years older, but guess what? There she was!

The one I last heard was "He just wants a 22 year old on his arm." Well Jesus Christ, imagine that, I want something I'm actually interested in nailing, let alone touching.

For some reason 22 is the age older women target their frustrations at.

SEVERAL of my female friends give me sh!t because according to them I only like 22 yr olds. I don't kiss and tell but they aren't dumb They know a little about my past experiences with younger women, and most of them have met one that I had a fling with.

Incidentally, I love to pour salt in the wound with these chicks by telling them that in my experience younger women are better in bed, haha. They LOVE to hear that. Matter of fact there's one in particular I haven't mentioned that to. I think I need to make it a point to do so....

 

[Luveno]

I'm was thinking of a reply for backbreakers latest thread, and it gave me an idea.

Lets start a list of words and phrases women have created to shame men to promote the feminine agenda. I'll throw a couple out there-

- Commitmentphobic (probably the most common)
- Mid-life crisis
- Dirty old man
- Shallow

Lets hear some more.....

This isn't so much the feminist agenda as much as its the politically correct nuclear-family focused media reflecting on society's true colors.

1. commitmentphobic: its not even a real word so I won't address it.

2. mid-life crisis: if anything, the idea that when men hit 40 they lament the fact that they haven't accomplished their dreams and thus try to relive their younger, virile, years in hopes of having a second shot at the golden ticket should work AGAINST the "feminist agenda". It should make the younger generation NOT want to live life like these regretful 40 year olds have.

3. dirty old man: this is what older women call men who like younger women. It is a blatant show of jealousy for girls younger than them.

4. Shallow: this term is used by ugly people, men or women, when they are overlooked in favor of more attractive individuals. It inaccurately deflects the hate they are feeling for their looks onto the person who rejected them. Essentially, "shallow" is a defense mechanism.

 

[Mr.Positive]

"Creepy" get's my vote. I love that one. I think it's the default shaming tactic...when a woman can't think of a bigger word. The first thing that comes to mind, is creepy.

When misogynist doens't fit...no, or immature or superficial, no...damnit, he's not shallow. I just can't shame this guy...oh yeah, he's creepy!! That does it! An all in one shame. We've got him now.

 

[STR8UP]

This isn't so much the feminist agenda as much as its the politically correct nuclear-family focused media reflecting on society's true colors.

I didn't say "feminist", I said "feminine". Big diff.

1. commitmentphobic: its not even a real word so I won't address it.

Okay, how about "Afraid of commitment"? That's a real term.

"Creepy" get's my vote. I love that one. I think it's the default shaming tactic...when a woman can't think of a bigger word. The first thing that comes to mind, is creepy.

When misogynist doens't fit...no, or immature or superficial, no...damnit, he's not shallow. I just can't shame this guy...oh yeah, he's creepy!! That does it! An all in one shame. We've got him now.

The thing is, I believe "creepy" is less of a shaming tactic than it is a state of mind. I guess it depends upon whether or not it comes from the mouth of a younger woman or an older one. If it's a younger woman it might be rooted in her actual emotion toward a particular man. I can honestly see younger women being put off by an older man who doesn't carry himself well. Coming from an older woman it's likely just another shaming tactic

 

[Mr.Positive]

The thing is, I believe "creepy" is less of a shaming tactic than it is a state of mind.

No..you are right Str8up. "Creepy" is nothing more than a woman not being attracted to a man. If you've ever gone out with a group of gals, they will call any guy "creepy" that they do not find attractive....ie, something about the guy, turns them off. Even before actually talking to them.

It is a state of mind, I stand corrected.

 

[jophil28]

I'm was thinking of a reply for backbreakers latest thread, and it gave me an idea.

Lets start a list of words and phrases women have created to shame men to promote the feminine agenda. I'll throw a couple out there-

- Commitmentphobic (probably the most common)
- Mid-life crisis
- Dirty old man
- Shallow

Lets hear some more.....

I get all these and more - damn ,I love it. It makes this ole silver fox proud.

 

[ketostix]

No..you are right Str8up. "Creepy" is nothing more than a woman not being attracted to a man. If you've ever gone out with a group of gals, they will call any guy "creepy" that they do not find attractive....ie, something about the guy, turns them off. Even before actually talking to them.

It is a state of mind, I stand corrected.

No, you were right it is totally a shaming tactic. Young women will say a certain age difference is creepy without even knowing the two parties. Even men will use it to shame other guys. I agree partially with Str8UP that it can be a vague assertion of not being attracted, but it's intended to shame no two ways about it.

 

[Knight's Cross]

Good thread STR8UP!

My all time favorite was the BPD whack job's line,"All guys leave me". Now if that wasn't the all time most ridiculous shaming line I'd ever heard.... Believe me fella's if you hear that one,"RUN". Don't walk, RUN! She's TELLING you that she's had drama/ failed relationships, etc. Trying to pull the Save a Ho scheme on you.

KC

 

[RedPill]

- Man-hor
- unrealistic
- cradle robber
- cheap (in reference to an unwillingness to spend money frivolously on her)
- "Humppf!" (childish general expression of pouty displeasure)
- Where is this going?

My personal pet peeve:

- "Are you/they serious?" or "When is he going to ask her?"

Serious about what? Heart disease? Football? It's the assumptive nature of these questions that irks me. It usually is asked in a context as to infer "is he ready to put his balls in a jar and dedicate himself to making her lifelong dreams of suburban utopia come true? What's taking him so long?"

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

These were pulled from my thread Operative Social Conventions if you want the full run down, but I think this'll get the ball rolling here:


Shame
Perhaps the easiest and most recognizable form of social convention is shame. Not only this, but it is also the most easily employable and the most widely accepted - not just by women of all ages and descriptions, but also parroted back by conditioned men as well as by popular culture and the media.

Examples:
“Men should date women their own age.”
“Men shouldn’t be so ‘shallow’ as to put off single mothers as viable long term mates.”
“Men have ‘fragile egos’ that need constant affirmation in an almost infantile respect.”
“Men feel threatened by ‘successful’ women.”
"Men need to grow up."
"Men just want wives to be their mother replacement."


As well as being popularized myths, all of these are subtle (and not so subtle) manipulations of shame. Each is an operative social convention that places a man into a position of having to live up to an idealized standard that simultaneously raises the standard for a woman, thus placing her into a better position of sexual selection and in some instances, leveling the percieved playingfield with regard to the feminine competition dynamic (i.e single moms, older and professional women ought to be just as desirable as the younger women men biologically prefer).

The ‘Shallow’ effect – The useful myth of superficiality.

I'm mentioning this as an aside to the Shame methodology since it appears to me to be the root of the Shame operative. In all of the above examples (or symptoms) the burden of expectation that is placed on a man comes with the threat of being perceived as "Shallow" or superficial. In otherwords, the very questioning of whether or not a man ought to date a single mother comes with the veiled threat of having women (mothers or not) tar the questioning man with being superficial. This 'Shallow' effect is so pervasive in so many AFCs, young and old, whom I've counseled that it becomes an automatic default defense. Even under conditions of complete anonymity, the Shallow Effect becomes so ego-invested in their personality that even the potential of being perceived as "shallow" is avoided. This is a major obstacle in transitioning from AFC to DJ. AFCs all initially laugh at PUA technique (C&F, Peacocking, Neg Hits, etc.) because they carry the potential of being perceived as 'shallow'. The truth of the matter is that, individually we are only as superficial as our own self-perceprtions allow, but the Shallow Effect is probably the most useful convention so long as it keeps men doubting their ingenuousness and self-validity as a trade for women's intimacy while complying with a woman's control of a relationship's framing.

 

[KontrollerX]

Insecure- if you tell a group of chicks you'd never date a girl who has a ton of guy friends and you absolutely on pain of death do not tolerate girls night out when you are in a relationship with some chick.

Egomaniac- if you finally realize your full worth as a man and only settle for the best this term might by thrown at you if assh0le, jerk or narcissist aren't thought of by the girl at the time.

 

[Vulpine]

"Controlling"

When you hold women accountable, sometimes you get this shame maneuver...

"You're so controlling!"

This can be accompanied by:

"none of my previous boyfriends had a problem with..."

or

"how come YOU are the only one that doesn't like..."

I don't need to get verbose about how obnoxious these are.

 

[Mr. Me]

A compilation of male shaming tactics from http://www.dumpyourwifenow.com/2007/03/01/the-anti-male-shaming-tactics-catalog/

(great article! They also give advice on how to handle these)

* You’re bitter!
* You need to get over your anger at women.
* You are so negative!
* You need to get over your fear.
* Step up and take a chance like a man!
* You’re afraid of a strong woman!
* Stop whining!
* Get over it!
* Suck it up like a man!
* You guys don’t have it as nearly as bad as us women!
* You’re just afraid of losing your male privileges.
* Your fragile male ego
* Wow! You guys need to get a grip!
* Grow up!
* You are so immature!
* Do you live with your mother?
* I’m not interested in boys. I’m interested in real men.
* Men are shirking their God-given responsibility to marry and bear children.
* You guys are scary.
* You make me feel afraid.
* You are just bitter because you can’t get laid.
* You’re one of those right-wing wackos.
* You’re an extremist
* You sound like the KKK.
* more anti-feminist zaniness
* Are you gay?
* I need a real man, not a sissy.
* You’re such a wimp.
* I’m not like that!
* Stop generalizing!
* That’s a sexist stereotype!
* You misogynist creep!
* Why do you hate women?
* Do you love your mother?
* You are insensitive to the plight of women.
* You are mean-spirited.
* You view women as doormats.
* You want to roll back the rights of women!!
* You are going to make me cry.
* You’re unstable.
* You have issues.
* You need therapy.
* Weirdo!
* You are so materialistic.
* You are so greedy.
* If you didn’t go after bimbos, then
* How can you be so shallow and turn down a single mother?
* I bet you are fat and ugly.
* You can’t get laid!
* Creep!
* Loser!
* Have you thought about the problem being you?
* Stop being so negative.
* You are so cynical.
* If you refuse to have relationships with women, then you are admitting defeat.
* C’mon! Men are doers, not quitters.
* No woman will marry you with that attitude.
* Creeps like you will never get laid!

 

[Trader]

You notice how it DOES rub off on younger women though, because you hear them parroting some of these same things such as an older man hitting on a younger woman is "creepy, predatory, dirty, etc." yet is is not uncommon to see a younger woman with an older man.

Check this out, there is this girl who is 18, and she is about 8 on the looks scale, and she was commenting on this one couple where the guy is 24 and the girl is 18 and she was like: 'That is so disgusting, that guy is such a pervert.'

And this other girl who is 28 (6 on the looks scale) chimed in: 'Yeah that is so sick!'

So of course then I jump in and say: 'What's wrong with that? I love younger girls, and I actually would consider dating a 15/16 year old.'

(note - everyone there was a Christian - so it is assumed that there is no sex before marriage anyways)

You should have seen the look on their faces, they were like: 'WTF?'

And then I added: 'Actually a girl's physical beauty technically peaks at around 15 - 17 which is why that is the age that girls are recruited for in modeling by the European fashion designers.'

Once I said that...the other guys started to nod sheepishly.


What's interesting though is that both the girls above are more the aggessive and dominant types - i.e. NOT feminine. My personal experience is that the hyper-feminine girls have NO problem with guys liking/dating younger girls.

 

[armadon]

I heard that I need to find a woman with morals today. WTF? This is coming from one of my good friends. I was also called shallow today also. I just laughed because I know that young women love me.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Just out of curiosity, what is your general reaction when you hear one of these attempts at shaming?

Personally I look at them as opportunities to increase my non-reactiveteness.

And, generally, my favorite response to most of these is from "When I say No I feel Guilty" by Smith.

"Hmm. Maybe you're right."

 

[MR_PERFECT]

"I can't believe you're judging me," said the girl who started up an old friendship with her former rapist.

"You do believe me, don't you?"