The Pendulum Has Swung Too Far the Other Way Regarding "Looks"

Atom Smasher

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A couple short years ago the debate was raging about "Do looks matter?". You would read here frequent heated arguments from both sides of the camp.

For the record, my argument always was that innate, genetic good looks matter less than presentation. In other words, that a man can overcome less than ideal looks through clothing, a sense of style, body language and spitting decent game.

There were many who vehemently argued that looks don't matter in any way, shape or form.

About 2 years ago, almost overnight, that debate virtually ceased. I always found that very curious. Nowadays, the pendulum which for so long swung to the "looks don't matter" side has swung totally to the other side. I find the vast majority of posters stating that looks are everything, that a man has no chance with women unless you attract them physically with innate good looks first.

I would like to submit that we have gone too far in the other direction regarding "good looks". Good looks certainly help, but they can also be a liability with lower self-esteen women. Overall, though, they make it easier for a man to initially attract women.

But that is not to say that a man can't overcome physical liabilites with solid presentation. When a man presents himself well and spits decent game, her little brain hamster will shift into gear to rationalize attraction. She is fully capable of dating outside her league if other qualities make up for a looks deficit.

I have many times dated women who I knew were out of my league looks-wise because I had displayed qualities that enabled her to rationalize the discrepancy away (Not that I'm a bad-looking guy). I simply mean women who normally would initially think "Not in my league".

What are these qualities? Well, I stated them above. I'll recap and expand here:

Fitness
Women are very attracted to a look of health and fitness, just like you are. If you are pudgy or too skinny, that is major points off. Hit the gym and develop a decent physique. That will go a long way toward attraction, not to mention respect from other men, which women find hugely attractive.

Clothing
I notice that the ancient phrases that have fallen out of favor have existed for centuries because there is at least a ring of truth to them. "Clothing makes the man". Your clothing is your suit of armour in the world of game. Do you want to be a dashing, shining knight who dazzles her, or the rag-wearing stable hand who brushes the knight's horse?

Your clothing matters to her. She spends her entire life on her looks, clothing and presentation, and she naturally notices yours. Your clothing tells the world what you think about yourself more than you might think. You don't have to run around in a business suit all day (the ultimate suit of armour), but simply dress neatly with a little sense of style. That will go a long way toward overcoming the looks barrier. Oh, and shoes... The very first and most important thing a women evaluates is a man's shoes. Take that one to the bank, men. A nice, clean pair of shoes, whether formal or casual, factors way out of porportion in her evaluation process. Leverage that.

Body LanguageMove around like a healthy, fit man. No slumping or slouching (however, a James Dean-like slouching can work in your favor).

Move slowly and deliberately. It's crucially important to demonstrate mastery over time and space. Along with moving and speaking deliberately, take up lots of space. Legs should be apart when you sit, and your phone and keys should be placed at arm's reach in order to claim an innordinate amount of territory.

When speaking, be careful not to move and nod your head too much. Look at gay guys. They swing their heads to and fro like bobble-heads as they speak. The more you gesticulate the less attractive you are for the most part. Keep control of your head movements. Don't speak with lots of emotion and articulation (though some articulation is good). Control your eyes. Don't talk excitedly about things with that wide-eyed look. Keep them slit and narrow. Remember, we're tallking here about overcoming a looks deficit so all these little things matter. That wide-eyed look is a feminine emotional trait and believe me, you don't wear it well.

Game
Learn how to talk to women with authority and confidence. Confidence is nothing more than social ease. If you don't convey social ease, take the hammer to yourself and start sculpting. Make small-talk every day with anybody and everybody you come across. You will start to develop social ease over a period of time. Learn to subtly order women around. Don't request. Command.

When you combine all these factors and get them working for you, you will have a working system that will overcome the looks problem once and for all.

Have women become far too aware of looks? Yes they have; In today's contrived society they have been conditioned to do so. Are we powerless about that? Far from it. Your whole aura changes when you take control of your presentation to the world with the simple steps outlined above.

The pendulum has swung way to far toward the "looks are everything" side around here. That attitude is very fatalistic and ignores womens' propensity to rationalize what they want to feel.

For a man, personal presentation is the male analog for her artificial, painted on face that we universally are attracted to. We are attracted to the falsehood of painted-on femininity, and much less so her actual looks. Remember the first time you saw an attractive women without her makeup on? It was a genuine shock to the system, wasn't it? You had to rationalize that at least she goes out in public with a painted face on.

I will repeat the maxim for those who didn't get it:

Personal presentation is the male analog to female makeup and clothing.

Leverage it and attracting women will become far easier for you.
 

HolyG

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The body language section was a revelation. thanks man
 

zekko

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It IS interesting to see how much opinions on looks have changed here in a very short time. Used to be people bought heavily into the "PUA party line" that looks didn't matter at all - "How does facial symmetry help you go slay the wooly mammoth?". Well, facial symmetry is an indicator of good health, for one thing.

Atom Smasher said:
For the record, my argument always was that innate, genetic good looks matter less than presentation.
I like the way you've phrased this. I remember discussing this with you before, and you had said something like genetics didn't matter, only presentation - that presentation essentially was good looks. Now I am a firm believer that there's no substitution for good genetics. But I can accept the way you've put it here.

I'm an average looking guy, not hideous, but you won't be mistaking me for an Abercrombe and Fitch model either. Yet I have intrinsic value, or so I think anyway. Like you say, stay in shape, keep yourself clean, groom yourself, dress well, have good posture, move well, and use good body language, and chances are even an average guy can pass a girl's looks test.
I don't buy into the idea that you have to be in the top 10% best looking guys to get an attractive girl.

I do believe looks are an important factor, but I don't believe that there or no other attraction factors at play for men. Masculinity, creativity, humor, financial success, social status - if you are a guy who can command some respect, you should be able to attract a woman.
 

marmel75

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I have to agree...I asked a HB9 I met online what drew her to my profile and she said and I quote:

"Ur good looking and u have a job hahaha"...

Made no mention of anything I wrote....
 

Renegade357

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I don't think this is a blanket thing. Everyone is a individual here. I think you need a combination of both. If you are a troll you are a troll. But you can still be a good troll.

Anyway I've always been a good looking taller guy but I haven't always attracted women. It wasn't until I did the following that I started pulling them in relatively easily:

All of these are equally important.
1. Developed myself physically. More wide-receiver/soccer player athletic look.
2. Learned to dress appropriately and nicely.
3. Always look clean and well groomed.
4. Learned to banter with women and make them laugh. Figured this out by reading lots of books and watching movies. Practiced too any chance I got.
5. Speak no negatives about myself or others.
6. Manners. Being a gentleman always. Treating women well always.
 

backbreaker

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pthe sad thing about it is, it's one of the most unnecessary and uncomplicated arguements of all.

the reason it's unnecessary is beucase 95% of all men have the ability to make themselves more than presentable if they tried. if you went to the gym, toned up, lost a little fat in the face and stomach, figured out how to put together a decnet fashionable wardrobe, there will be at the very least reasonably attractive girls who are going to dig you.

the fact that the conversation goes well past that shows me just how lazy most men really are and how much they don;'t want to work but would rather ***** beucase thegy weren't born with rock hard abs or a naturally toned body

someone here once said, there aren't really any ugly women, just lazy ones. meaning just about any woman can make herself fvckable at the very least if she tried to and got in shape. same deal. when I was in AA i saw a girl come in at right at 200 pounds, 5'4 ish that no one would have given the time of day to, in a year turn herself into easily a 7.5-8 with one of the most smoking bodies i ahve ever seen and had guys around the room lined up to date her. she wasn't a super model or anything at all but she worked out daily and took care of herself.


I mean unless david the gnome is taller than you are or you are the elephant man or something there really isn't any excuse.

I'm an average looking guy, not hideous, but you won't be mistaking me for an Abercrombe and Fitch model either. Yet I have intrinsic value, or so I think anyway. Like you say, stay in shape, keep yourself clean, groom yourself, dress well, have good posture, move well, and use good body language, and chances are even an average guy can pass a girl's looks test.
ironically enough I actually have a younger cousin, well, he's not really a cousin, he's y dad's best friend's son but he might as well be, who is an abercombe and fitch model. however he's probbaly one of the worst AFC's i've ever encountered, and even though he's good lookiing, beucse he has got "treated bad" by a lot of girls because of his AFCness he settles for girls well below what he could pull. and **** they cheat on him too lol.

he has a younger brother by 2 years, who isn't anywhere near as good looking, he's not ugly but he's not his brother, but he's extremeyl smart, and pulls better from a quality standpoint than his brother does. once you get past Al's (the model) looks he really doesn't have all that much going for him. very lazy, doesn't want to get a real job. his brother however is an eletrocial engineer, makes bank, and beucase he wasn't blessed with his brothers looks, had to develop game.
 

Atom Smasher

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Renegade, I think you are agreeing 100% with the basic premise. My entire point is that everyone is an individual and that we should do what we can with what we've got.

If a troll presents himself well (indicating self-respect) he is going to do FAR better than the run-of-the-mill troll who doesn't pay attention to these things. The standard troll might only get one woman in his lifetime. The troll who maximizes himself might get 4. He has succeeded and reached the pinacle because he has nuanced himself into higher perceived value within the limits of his trolldom.

Whoever you are, you can maximize your attractiveness by paying attention to these small nuances.

What is the difference between an amazing, soaring guitar solo played by a pro and the exact same notes played by an amateur?

The pro will excite emotion in his listeners through nuance, playing the exact same notes.

The amateur will play the exact same notes mechanically and fail to excite emotion.

Mechanical presentation = uninteresting.

Nuanced, intentional presentation = excitement generated within the listener.

Need I say more? Get to work with the material you have, men. Don't compare yourself with Brad Pitt. Use your non-nuanced self as your reference point and build from there.

You will find yourself attracting more women and you will no longer be intimidated by better looking men.
 

Three

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This is gospel truth. I'm continually amazed by how many people I encounter each day either don't do a thing to make themselves presentable or seem to be trying for the opposite affect. There are so many grossly overweight women (and men) in this part of the country, it's fucking shocking. I don't think everyone is capable of being attractive according to some sort of common standard, however, I do believe that everyone is capable of gaining at least a point or two on a subjective attractiveness scale.

I've seen so many young women who are fat and have bad skin. And what do many of them do? Get facial piercings, dye their hair pink or purple, and wear some hideous combination of spandex and fake leather. Just plain sick.

Another point about the above that struck me, too, is that how you present yourself, bearing, movement, posture, eye contact, etc, is also indicative of good genetics in the sense of good mental and physical health.
 

Stryker

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This debate is one of the reasons I have chosen to no longer use dating websites.

I'd be willing to bet money that those who fall into the "looks do matter" category have at some point in the last couple of years had a POF profile, or some other online dating profile.

Let's not kid ourselves, good looks matter a lot more on dating websites than it does in reality. Why? Because anyone with a basic understanding of English can write a decent profile and send interesting messages. The clincher is of course the picture. I'm not bad looking, but I have a lot more success with women when I'm talking to them face-to-face as opposed to online.

Women have so much choice on dating websites and it can have such a bad effect on a man when he gets ignored by several women after writing a well thought out message. "I just sent a great message and got ignored. Where did I go wrong? I must not be good looking enough, that has to be it..."

We all know how much men over-think things when trying to attract women, so naturally these guys who have such bad luck on dating websites are going to think that it translates into reality as well.

Well... That's my theory anyway.
 

Stagger Lee

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What I say is you need a fundamental level of physical looks to be attractive at all to any women. The aggravating thing is this minimum level is inordinately high even for HB1-5's. This is pass/fail. Not passing the the looks test, anything you do personality/game wise might just get you friends with a girl, but not sexual attraction. Most guys could pass this minimum level but they would probably at least need to be in physical shape.

After passing that look standard, unless you are exceptionally good looking, you still need a level of personality factor. Most of that is really appearance too. So when people say looks are paramount, that is true if they mean overall appearance/presentation and not just fundamental physical looks.

I look at being attractive as not something you have to do or present as much as it's not presenting things that aren't attractive. It's really the absence of giving visual cues of being nervous, anxious, unhappy, introverted, shy, insecure etc. Or the absence of visual cues toward the other extreme too aggressive, angry, desperate etc.

Women look at your appearance and if they see unattractive visual cues let alone unattractive physical looks, they take an extreme jugdement about your personality and your intentions and value. EG, This guy is not attractive. He's uh weird and probably a loser. He's a creeper! Maybe a potential rapist! Or if you have an unattractive appearance and take the AFC approach. Then it's oh he's a nice guy. I can be just friends with him (use and abuse him).

What aggravates guy is even average and ugly women hold men to meeting a 70% score on physical looks plus at least 70% on personality factor. And if you are only 70% looks you need close to 90% personality, and if you are 90% looks rated then you need only 70% personality. But the 70/90 looks/personality guy will not attract women as often as the 90/70 looks/personality guy.

So it isn't so much personality makes up for looks. Looks have to be at a certain level and if they're at a minimum level what will work for you personality wise is much more limited.
 
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The Gambler

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This thread is one of the best in months. The OP and replies are very informative and well written.

I will give my typical brief opinion. If someone does not understand the importance of improving their physical appearance, to include wardrobe, fitness and demeanor, it's gonna be a tough road ahead when it comes to the ladies. Realistically, if this type of guy rates a "6" without trying, he'd be fortunate to find an interested woman who rates between a 4 and 6 (other threads discuss the reasons for this). Even worse, there's a huge potential for this guy to settle for a woman with low self-esteem -- which is probably what he deserves, because his lack of caring about his appearance (i.e. taking care of business) makes it obvious that he also suffers from a low self-esteem.

Birds of a feather.

There should be no excuses. You don't need to go to the gym two hours a day and eat nothing but salad. You don't need to buy $80 shirts. You don't need to buy a 2012 Mercedes CLS63. Why not buy a weight bench for your garage or bedroom? Cut down on the Doritos and Mountain Dew. Buy a $20 shirt that fits you well. Settle for a used 2009 Mercedes C300 (sorry.... bad joke).

The bottom line is if you're REALLY serious about improving yourself, there are no good excuses to stand in the way. One thing is for sure though... Improving yourself strictly through ACADEMIC means ain't gonna work, and we see that type of guy post here all the time. Go ahead and read all the books you want on driving techniques.... But until you get behind the wheel of that car and press the gas pedal (the physical part of this example), there is absolutely no way you'll ever become a skilled driver.

The Gambler
 

Chickfight

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Great post.

Lots of girls will rationalize that they're with a guy because he's good-looking, or smart, or funny, or kind, whatever. They are attracted to him, So they try to figure out "why?". If they're not attracted to you, doesn't matter if you're Brad pitt, Steven Hawkings or the best of both worlds. Confidence is what creates attraction. If you have it in a certain situation, all your attractive traits come out naturally, and believe me, everyone has them. However, If you skip the confidence step, it comes off as forced and just off. Fake confidence (aka arrogance), can fool some girls to thinking you're hot ****, but it only works with the ones who lack self esteem and blame everything on themselves. Real confidence gives you inherent value that is yours forever. It's an empowering feeling. People seem to actually become more physically attractive as they gain confidence.

But I'm not going to leave you with some lame ass advice to "just be more confident". How I personally got over my debilitating shyness is body language. I cannot overstate the significance of body language when it comes to DEVELOPING confidence. Understand that confidence is not a fixed state. It's something that fluctuates (Being confident in certain situations, but not others. True self-esteem is when you're confident in ANY situation. But HOW, how do you get that?

Fake it til you make it. I know, not exactly an original idea, but it constantly gets glossed over. It's simple and learning attractive body language and applying it ALL the TIME, even when you're alone. Some people get caught up in "being too real for this ****". Well, if you haven't learned this yet, then you're not. Did James Bond come out of the womb all suave and ****, taking shooting international criminals and seducing their trophy wives? Why is it that generally people who act for a living come off as more confident and charismatic that an average dude? Cause they learn how to be that way by ACTING, they actually become that charming person by pretending to be it. Some people learn this earlier (naturals), some later (many of us here) and some never at all (perpetual chumps). It's that simple to me and it's been working so far.

http://www.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_...=&utm_content=awesm-publisher&utm_source=t.co
 
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Atom Smasher

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The way to gain social confidence is to engage in small talk with strangers, men and women alike.

Make a comment about your surroundings or the situation at hand, ask them how they're doing, just meaningless small-talk. Life is full of paradox, and it is true that "meaningless" small-talk is actually full of meaning.

It teaches YOU that you are worth talking to, it brightens up your day and the other person's, and it slowly shapes you into a person who displays social ease (in other words, confidence). It's like a baby putting a penny in the bank every day. With compound interest, it will grow up to be a millionaire.

Put those pennies in your social skills bank. You will become wealthy over time.
 

Konada

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Atom Smasher said:
The way to gain social confidence is to engage in small talk with strangers, men and women alike.

Make a comment about your surroundings or the situation at hand, ask them how they're doing, just meaningless small-talk. Life is full of paradox, and it is true that "meaningless" small-talk is actually full of meaning.

It teaches YOU that you are worth talking to, it brightens up your day and the other person's, and it slowly shapes you into a person who displays social ease (in other words, confidence). It's like a baby putting a penny in the bank every day. With compound interest, it will grow up to be a millionaire.

Put those pennies in your social skills bank. You will become wealthy over time.
Nothing can refine this any further.
 

TillTheEndOfTime

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Atom Smasher said:
A couple short years ago the debate was raging about "Do looks matter?". You would read here frequent heated arguments from both sides of the camp.

For the record, my argument always was that innate, genetic good looks matter less than presentation. In other words, that a man can overcome less than ideal looks through clothing, a sense of style, body language and spitting decent game.

There were many who vehemently argued that looks don't matter in any way, shape or form.

About 2 years ago, almost overnight, that debate virtually ceased. I always found that very curious. Nowadays, the pendulum which for so long swung to the "looks don't matter" side has swung totally to the other side. I find the vast majority of posters stating that looks are everything, that a man has no chance with women unless you attract them physically with innate good looks first.

I would like to submit that we have gone too far in the other direction regarding "good looks". Good looks certainly help, but they can also be a liability with lower self-esteen women. Overall, though, they make it easier for a man to initially attract women.

But that is not to say that a man can't overcome physical liabilites with solid presentation. When a man presents himself well and spits decent game, her little brain hamster will shift into gear to rationalize attraction. She is fully capable of dating outside her league if other qualities make up for a looks deficit.

I have many times dated women who I knew were out of my league looks-wise because I had displayed qualities that enabled her to rationalize the discrepancy away (Not that I'm a bad-looking guy). I simply mean women who normally would initially think "Not in my league".

What are these qualities? Well, I stated them above. I'll recap and expand here:

Fitness
Women are very attracted to a look of health and fitness, just like you are. If you are pudgy or too skinny, that is major points off. Hit the gym and develop a decent physique. That will go a long way toward attraction, not to mention respect from other men, which women find hugely attractive.

Clothing
I notice that the ancient phrases that have fallen out of favor have existed for centuries because there is at least a ring of truth to them. "Clothing makes the man". Your clothing is your suit of armour in the world of game. Do you want to be a dashing, shining knight who dazzles her, or the rag-wearing stable hand who brushes the knight's horse?

Your clothing matters to her. She spends her entire life on her looks, clothing and presentation, and she naturally notices yours. Your clothing tells the world what you think about yourself more than you might think. You don't have to run around in a business suit all day (the ultimate suit of armour), but simply dress neatly with a little sense of style. That will go a long way toward overcoming the looks barrier. Oh, and shoes... The very first and most important thing a women evaluates is a man's shoes. Take that one to the bank, men. A nice, clean pair of shoes, whether formal or casual, factors way out of porportion in her evaluation process. Leverage that.

Body LanguageMove around like a healthy, fit man. No slumping or slouching (however, a James Dean-like slouching can work in your favor).

Move slowly and deliberately. It's crucially important to demonstrate mastery over time and space. Along with moving and speaking deliberately, take up lots of space. Legs should be apart when you sit, and your phone and keys should be placed at arm's reach in order to claim an innordinate amount of territory.

When speaking, be careful not to move and nod your head too much. Look at gay guys. They swing their heads to and fro like bobble-heads as they speak. The more you gesticulate the less attractive you are for the most part. Keep control of your head movements. Don't speak with lots of emotion and articulation (though some articulation is good). Control your eyes. Don't talk excitedly about things with that wide-eyed look. Keep them slit and narrow. Remember, we're tallking here about overcoming a looks deficit so all these little things matter. That wide-eyed look is a feminine emotional trait and believe me, you don't wear it well.

Game
Learn how to talk to women with authority and confidence. Confidence is nothing more than social ease. If you don't convey social ease, take the hammer to yourself and start sculpting. Make small-talk every day with anybody and everybody you come across. You will start to develop social ease over a period of time. Learn to subtly order women around. Don't request. Command.

When you combine all these factors and get them working for you, you will have a working system that will overcome the looks problem once and for all.

Have women become far too aware of looks? Yes they have; In today's contrived society they have been conditioned to do so. Are we powerless about that? Far from it. Your whole aura changes when you take control of your presentation to the world with the simple steps outlined above.

The pendulum has swung way to far toward the "looks are everything" side around here. That attitude is very fatalistic and ignores womens' propensity to rationalize what they want to feel.

For a man, personal presentation is the male analog for her artificial, painted on face that we universally are attracted to. We are attracted to the falsehood of painted-on femininity, and much less so her actual looks. Remember the first time you saw an attractive women without her makeup on? It was a genuine shock to the system, wasn't it? You had to rationalize that at least she goes out in public with a painted face on.

I will repeat the maxim for those who didn't get it:

Personal presentation is the male analog to female makeup and clothing.

Leverage it and attracting women will become far easier for you.
There is a good reason that many people say looks matter most these days; because it is true. Categorically and absolutely across the board in every possible way that you can imagine.

The idea that looks don't matter came from a stone age era which is dead for a good reason. It was the twilight of the PUA era. It was an era where:

1) Women in general did not work or pursue education in advanced degrees in the numbers or frequency that we see today.

2) Nobody had a cell phone, though a few executives making 100k+ might have had a car phone. But that's it.

3) The internet was not around, other very basic dialup services and limited information. Nothing like what we have today. Obviously no FB, twitter, etc.

4) We didn't have the amount of male-bashing that we see in today's society & media. Women weren't being told that all men are rapists and that we are inherently violent and evil.

5) Women were not bombarded with brainwashing reality TV and other shows ingraining superficial tendency into their psyche. They are constantly being told to go for flash over substance.

6) People actually went to clubs to meet other people. Men & women. Not stand around dancing with their own friends, holding up cellphones and yelling "FACEBOOK PROFILE PIC!!!!!" (and giggling like little school girls) and then snapping a generic picture of their group with the single armed high angle shot.

7) So called PUA guru were holding 30+ people seminars at $1000 per person. They had a serious vested interest in getting men to believe that "looks don't matter". It meant a new car ever 2 years for them. Meanwhile, they got women by flashing the money they made from these poor saps and used those women to show that their method works. Well I guess it does, but not in the way the men were led to believe.


I could go on and on and on and on and on and on and on, but let me cut to the point:

Women don't need men at all for support in general. In terms of education and finances, women are as good off or even better than men. At least in education there are more women in higher education these days. Think about the effect that this situation has on the filtering process in their heads. It used to be "who can take care of me, be a good boyfriend/husband...." Now that part of the equation is basically erased. The woman (or state) will take care of herself.

Women are CONSTANTLY connected to the world through the internet, their cell phones, etc. They have absolutely ZERO inclination to meet anyone new outside of their social circle (i.e. school, friends of friends, etc). At the snap of the finger, they can put up a picture on FB and have an AFC orbiter "like" it. Whenever she feels down on herself, she can reassure herself that getting the next guy in her life is as easy as uploading a picture. Which brings me to my next point:

Women get satisfaction purely and solely from attention. When a girl sees someone checking her out at a club, that is better than sex for her. Dead serious. It is like an orgasm that no man could actually ever give her physically. In the past, women needed to "buy" this attention. Now it is free. So they hold out for an imitation of their TV heartthrob lookalike coming out of the woodwork and sweeping them off their feet. Of course it never happens and that's when you hear the annoying & asinine question many of us hear: "where are all the good men?".

Times have changed people. All the teens & 20/30 somethings know the new dynamic very well.

So have advertising companies. You see plenty of commercials for men-related beauty products on TV these days. Riddle me this oldies:

Did you used to see beauty ads for MEN on TV in the 70's? Clearly the advertising companies have picked up on the "looks matter" dynamic shift in society.
 

TillTheEndOfTime

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Stagger Lee said:
What I say is you need a fundamental level of physical looks to be attractive at all to any women. The aggravating thing is this minimum level is inordinately high even for HB1-5's. This is pass/fail. Not passing the the looks test, anything you do personality/game wise might just get you friends with a girl, but not sexual attraction.
Bingo. Game is only relevant if you pass the looks test. Girls are bombarded with so much attention these days that they don't need to give you a second thought if they are not immediately physically attracted to you.
 

Burroughs

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TillTheEndOfTime said:
There is a good reason that many people say looks matter most these days; because it is true. Categorically and absolutely across the board in every possible way that you can imagine.

The idea that looks don't matter came from a stone age era which is dead for a good reason. It was the twilight of the PUA era. It was an era where:

1) Women in general did not work or pursue education in advanced degrees in the numbers or frequency that we see today.

2) Nobody had a cell phone, though a few executives making 100k+ might have had a car phone. But that's it.

3) The internet was not around, other very basic dialup services and limited information. Nothing like what we have today. Obviously no FB, twitter, etc.

4) We didn't have the amount of male-bashing that we see in today's society & media. Women weren't being told that all men are rapists and that we are inherently violent and evil.

5) Women were not bombarded with brainwashing reality TV and other shows ingraining superficial tendency into their psyche. They are constantly being told to go for flash over substance.

6) People actually went to clubs to meet other people. Men & women. Not stand around dancing with their own friends, holding up cellphones and yelling "FACEBOOK PROFILE PIC!!!!!" (and giggling like little school girls) and then snapping a generic picture of their group with the single armed high angle shot.

7) So called PUA guru were holding 30+ people seminars at $1000 per person. They had a serious vested interest in getting men to believe that "looks don't matter". It meant a new car ever 2 years for them. Meanwhile, they got women by flashing the money they made from these poor saps and used those women to show that their method works. Well I guess it does, but not in the way the men were led to believe.


I could go on and on and on and on and on and on and on, but let me cut to the point:

Women don't need men at all for support in general. In terms of education and finances, women are as good off or even better than men. At least in education there are more women in higher education these days. Think about the effect that this situation has on the filtering process in their heads. It used to be "who can take care of me, be a good boyfriend/husband...." Now that part of the equation is basically erased. The woman (or state) will take care of herself.

Women are CONSTANTLY connected to the world through the internet, their cell phones, etc. They have absolutely ZERO inclination to meet anyone new outside of their social circle (i.e. school, friends of friends, etc). At the snap of the finger, they can put up a picture on FB and have an AFC orbiter "like" it. Whenever she feels down on herself, she can reassure herself that getting the next guy in her life is as easy as uploading a picture. Which brings me to my next point:

Women get satisfaction purely and solely from attention. When a girl sees someone checking her out at a club, that is better than sex for her. Dead serious. It is like an orgasm that no man could actually ever give her physically. In the past, women needed to "buy" this attention. Now it is free. So they hold out for an imitation of their TV heartthrob lookalike coming out of the woodwork and sweeping them off their feet. Of course it never happens and that's when you hear the annoying & asinine question many of us hear: "where are all the good men?".

Times have changed people. All the teens & 20/30 somethings know the new dynamic very well.

So have advertising companies. You see plenty of commercials for men-related beauty products on TV these days. Riddle me this oldies:

Did you used to see beauty ads for MEN on TV in the 70's? Clearly the advertising companies have picked up on the "looks matter" dynamic shift in society.

Very good breakdown

Like the other post with 600,000 thousand a year salary :eek: this is truly what many, many women making 30-40K expect...they deserve a dude making 10-15X times more than they do :confused: ....a simply 100K guy with a mid sized lex or benz is just a loser putz to her unless he looks like tom brady...but here's the rub

a guy making 100K looks like brady can get a ton of biyaches..he ain't gonna settle for no weak azz hb 7 making 30K...he's going for hb 9 biyaches who make 200K+ and he can get her because he looks like brady.

the normal upscale guy making 150K does nothing for an average entitled western femcvnt pulling 30K :trouble: 30K cvnts want millionaires with muscles who drive ferraris because television, the internet, and all her fugly friends tell her 24/7 she deserves it.

This is just where things stand in 2012 and its going to get much worse...then when society collapses biyaches will be azzed out as social welfare crumbles and rape gangs rule supreme :rock:
 

TillTheEndOfTime

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Burroughs said:
the normal upscale guy making 150K does nothing for an average entitled western femcvnt pulling 30K :trouble: 30K cvnts want millionaires with muscles who drive ferraris because television, the internet, and all her fugly friends tell her 24/7 she deserves it.

This is just where things stand in 2012 and its going to get much worse...then when society collapses biyaches will be azzed out as social welfare crumbles and rape gangs rule supreme :rock:
You hit a solid point here. Being a normal, average guy isn't good enough. It used to be good enough, but not anymore.

As our good friend NaughtyNinja can explain: why do you have to be so funny and outgoing on POF just to get an AVERAGE girl to pay ANY attention to you? Why do men have to be so above average to get an AVERAGE girl?

The answer to the above and I'm sure NN can explain well, ties into what I'm talking about regarding attention being "free" for women these days and what it has done for their expectations.

For anybody confused about what "free" attention means is the following: women had limited exposure to the general male population in the past. Especially when they didn't work as much or go to school like they do today. And when there were no cellphones or social media. They actually had to go out, make friends and purposely & actively TRY to garner attention from the men around them.

Now? They just have to walk into class, sit at their desk at work, upload 1 grainy picture on POF or FB and they have DROVES of men dying for their acknowledgement.
 

PepperSpray

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TillTheEndOfTime said:
You hit a solid point here. Being a normal, average guy isn't good enough. It used to be good enough, but not anymore.

As our good friend NaughtyNinja can explain: why do you have to be so funny and outgoing on POF just to get an AVERAGE girl to pay ANY attention to you? Why do men have to be so above average to get an AVERAGE girl?

The answer to the above and I'm sure NN can explain well, ties into what I'm talking about regarding attention being "free" for women these days and what it has done for their expectations.

For anybody confused about what "free" attention means is the following: women had limited exposure to the general male population in the past. Especially when they didn't work as much or go to school like they do today. And when there were no cellphones or social media. They actually had to go out, make friends and purposely & actively TRY to garner attention from the men around them.

Now? They just have to walk into class, sit at their desk at work, upload 1 grainy picture on POF or FB and they have DROVES of men dying for their acknowledgement.
Do men still have sex?
 

Stagger Lee

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PepperSpray said:
Do men still have sex?
The idea is that the top 30% of best looking guys are having sex with multiple girls, leaving virtually nothing left and little chance for the bottom 70% looking guys.

Instead of level 10,9, 8 guys pairing off one-to-one with a suitable HB10-8 girl and so on, HB10-5 girls are sexing level 10-8 guys. L7 guys are sexing with HB5-1 girls. Guys below about L7 looks are not getting anything, and their efforts to get sex serve only to inflate women's ego. That's the natural and inevitable result of promiscuity, PUA and plate spinning. When men and women are not pairing with a suitable match, female hypergamy is the order.
 

It doesn't matter how good-looking you are, how romantic you are, how funny you are... or anything else. If she doesn't have something INVESTED in you and the relationship, preferably quite a LOT invested, she'll dump you, without even the slightest hesitation, as soon as someone a little more "interesting" comes along.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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