The Pendulum Has Swung Too Far the Other Way Regarding "Looks"

[Burroughs]

The idea is that the top 30% of best looking guys are having sex with multiple girls, leaving virtually nothing left and little chance for the bottom 70% looking guys.

Instead of level 10,9, 8 guys pairing off one-to-one with a suitable HB10-8 girl and so on, HB10-5 girls are sexing level 10-8 guys. L7 guys are sexing with HB5-1 girls. Guys below about L7 looks are not getting anything, and their efforts to get sex serve only to inflate women's ego. That's the natural and inevitable result of promiscuity, PUA and plate spinning. When men and women are not pairing with a suitable match, female hypergamy is the order.

And this comes back full circle to why women were owned as property by men through much of recorded history

YOU CANNOT BUILD A SOCIETY THATS FUNCTIONAL IN WHICH 70-80% OF THE MEN HAVE ZERO FEMALE PROSPECTS WHATSOEVER..they will not work they will not build...they have no reason to live.

No Rome, No Egypt, No Indus Valley

Our forefathers were wise in the ways of rampant female hypergamy and cleverly contained it...

But today those containments are no longer in effect...women have utmost freedom...freedom through usurious laws to enslave men economically for their entire lives. through taxation and alimony

and yet men still try to 'game' women.

there is a game being played however....and men have already lost.

most men just don't realize it.

 

[nismo-4]

The problem with the media and facebook blowing up this hookup culture is that it only benefitted women and the top 10% of men. Every woman wants a muscular millionaire with lots of time to spend with her. It's 2012. Women are becoming more the breadwinners and seem to not need a man in their lives.

I remember when a working man trying to come up and who had ambition was actually attractive to women. Not a lot now. Women want a working man who made it already. Those trying to get there are mostly ego boosters.

In 2020, they're probably gonna make more laws to protect women and it might even be illegal to sleep with a HB7 unless you're perfect in every regard. Since women are getting so much attention, the value and prizability has inflated drastically, and the constantly growing PUA movement doesn't help at all. What did you think would happen when EVERY AVERAGE GUY started using PUA material?

The PUA material doesn't tell you that it won't make your body or bank account look any better!

 

[Burroughs]

In 2020, they're probably gonna make more laws to protect women and it might even be illegal to sleep with a HB7 unless you're perfect in every regard. Since women are getting so much attention, the value and prizability has inflated drastically, and the constantly growing PUA movement doesn't help at all. What did you think would happen when EVERY AVERAGE GUY started using PUA material?
!

Oh you can take that to the bank

By 2020 it will be illegal for men to look at a woman in any way whatsoever she deems 'threatening' :trouble: Only the top 1% of men are truly desired by 100% of women.

the truth is 100% of women believe only 10% of men are worth reproducing.

the other 90% of men are fit only to be cannon fodder or beta provider....fit to give his life for a woman and get nothing in return...

90% of men are the provider/slave in his woman's life...a woman he believes to be his loving wife...:crackup: :crackup: the woman pretends to love him only to gain his provisioning...if he ever loses his job he will learn the brutal truth

 

[NobodyCares1]

Even minor introversion is 2x the handicap average looks are. Personality can be everything. Those that disagree obviously didn't have many male friends growing up. I always know 2-3 guys that are confident extroverts that are ugly but DOMINATE with hot women.

Looks are not sufficient to getting laid with hotties, I know from my own experience and that of other. Game is sufficient.

Exactly, I don't know why guys here think looks are so important. Seriously then we can close this site shut because the game doesn't mean a sh!t.

I know I am really good looking and still girls rejected me a lot when I didn't have any game. Even now the girls that knew me when I was a chump tell me that I am not good looking. All the other girls that got to know me this year, when I began to develop a game tell me that I am great looking.

Girls won't just siply chase you because you're good looking, damn a lot of the guys that I see scoring women aren't that good looking. Most of them are average but confident, some are even ugly and still have a hot GF.

Looks do help but not as much as some guys here think.

 

[perseverance]

I'm sorry but this is complete nonsense. Why on earth would I want mould myself into what women want? I will have the physique that I want, I will dress the way I want to and I will do what I want, when I want on my terms. I don't exist to please women or conform to what society and women want. I exist to live the life I want to live. I couldn't care less about what is important to women and what women want. I only care about what is important to me and what I want. Women are secondary to me, they are merely just one entertainment purpose in a world where there is lots to see and do. I'm not going to spend my life catering to what women want, I will spend my life leading the life I want to live - if I settle down with a good woman, then so be it, if I don't then I shall have no regrets because I will have enjoyed the life I have lived.

 

[NewAndImproved]

Looks matter for sure and it's true what a lot have said about women dating up and dudes dating down. I'd say this is doubly-true when you're gaming outside of your race.

The good news is that clothes make a huge difference. I think people really underestimate the importance of style. Even most of the pua clothing websites I've seen aren't the greatest.

Not only that but people forget that style is something that always needs to be refined. I was well-dressed as a college kid, but now I'm also well-dressed as a young professional. However, I was just looking through some old photos from college and thinking -- man, I'm glad I lost those jeans or that loose-fitting dress shirt that was considered fancy at the time. You should have a revolving (evolving) wardrobe.

I've a post in me later about the importance of being compact -- Compact, fitted-clothes, a compact lifestyle (stable job, no kids running around, not many loose ends in general etc)...

I'm a handsome guy but with nice clothes and improved game (the two work off of each other) I've taken my game to the next level.

 

[Naughty Ninja]

Fitness
Women are very attracted to a look of health and fitness, just like you are. If you are pudgy or too skinny, that is major points off. Hit the gym and develop a decent physique. That will go a long way toward attraction, not to mention respect from other men, which women find hugely attractive.

Clothing
I notice that the ancient phrases that have fallen out of favor have existed for centuries because there is at least a ring of truth to them. "Clothing makes the man". Your clothing is your suit of armour in the world of game. Do you want to be a dashing, shining knight who dazzles her, or the rag-wearing stable hand who brushes the knight's horse?

Your clothing matters to her. She spends her entire life on her looks, clothing and presentation, and she naturally notices yours. Your clothing tells the world what you think about yourself more than you might think. You don't have to run around in a business suit all day (the ultimate suit of armour), but simply dress neatly with a little sense of style. That will go a long way toward overcoming the looks barrier. Oh, and shoes... The very first and most important thing a women evaluates is a man's shoes. Take that one to the bank, men. A nice, clean pair of shoes, whether formal or casual, factors way out of porportion in her evaluation process. Leverage that.

Body LanguageMove around like a healthy, fit man. No slumping or slouching (however, a James Dean-like slouching can work in your favor).

Move slowly and deliberately. It's crucially important to demonstrate mastery over time and space. Along with moving and speaking deliberately, take up lots of space. Legs should be apart when you sit, and your phone and keys should be placed at arm's reach in order to claim an innordinate amount of territory.

When speaking, be careful not to move and nod your head too much. Look at gay guys. They swing their heads to and fro like bobble-heads as they speak. The more you gesticulate the less attractive you are for the most part. Keep control of your head movements. Don't speak with lots of emotion and articulation (though some articulation is good). Control your eyes. Don't talk excitedly about things with that wide-eyed look. Keep them slit and narrow. Remember, we're tallking here about overcoming a looks deficit so all these little things matter. That wide-eyed look is a feminine emotional trait and believe me, you don't wear it well.

Game
Learn how to talk to women with authority and confidence. Confidence is nothing more than social ease. If you don't convey social ease, take the hammer to yourself and start sculpting. Make small-talk every day with anybody and everybody you come across. You will start to develop social ease over a period of time. Learn to subtly order women around. Don't request. Command.

When you combine all these factors and get them working for you, you will have a working system that will overcome the looks problem once and for all.

Have women become far too aware of looks? Yes they have; In today's contrived society they have been conditioned to do so. Are we powerless about that? Far from it. Your whole aura changes when you take control of your presentation to the world with the simple steps outlined above.
The pendulum has swung way to far toward the "looks are everything" side around here. That attitude is very fatalistic and ignores womens' propensity to rationalize what they want to feel.

For a man, personal presentation is the male analog for her artificial, painted on face that we universally are attracted to. We are attracted to the falsehood of painted-on femininity, and much less so her actual looks. Remember the first time you saw an attractive women without her makeup on? It was a genuine shock to the system, wasn't it? You had to rationalize that at least she goes out in public with a painted face on.

I will repeat the maxim for those who didn't get it:

Personal presentation is the male analog to female makeup and clothing.

Leverage it and attracting women will become far easier for you.

^^^This^^^

Work out.

Dress your best.

Learn to talk to all types, shapes and sizes of women like people first. Not an object you "need" to date. Once you get completely used to talking with them while ignoring any and all nonsense you become uneffected and almost Zen like. Chicks will pick up on it. Then you can escalate when appropriate. OR continue over-analizing everything and acting like some desperate PUA nutjob.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Even minor introversion is 2x the handicap average looks are. Personality can be everything. Those that disagree obviously didn't have many male friends growing up. I always know 2-3 guys that are confident extroverts that are ugly but DOMINATE with hot women.

Looks are not sufficient to getting laid with hotties, I know from my own experience and that of other. Game is sufficient.

I agree introversion almost always prevents attraction and extraversion and expressiveness is necessary, but without the minimum looks required all you'll get is friends at best. This, the girl's amusing friend, is probably the majority of the "ugly" guys you see with "hot" women. Or if you go more aggressive you will be labeled a "creeper". If being more outgoing gets you attractive women, then simply your looks are sufficient.

About 75% of the guys I've known in real life can hardly attract women. Online, most every guy says they do all right attracting women, but in real life most guys I met have very limited success with attracting women. Probably way less than 25% of them are truely introverts.


It's always said you got to have confidence, masculinity and boldness etc. Putting aside the definition and what these factors really are or are not, you have to ask why does any guy not have the necessary confidence. A lot of it could be due to women and society constantly signaling to them that they are not good enough looking. Ie, they've made confident moves and are rejected harshly.

I know when I was younger and prettier, I didn't have to do anything for some girls to be attracted to me. Nowadays, trying every trick I've learned works less and less and increasingly not at all.

Anyway we can argue looks vs personality ad infinitum, but the very fact that it's acknowledged that men need so many almost indefinable and rare qualities to pick up girls is proof that women are only attracted to a small percentage of men. And that percentage isn't small for easily changable reasons as the drive men have and the lengths they'll go to be able to attract women is immense.

 

[SoSuave666]

I'm sorry but this is complete nonsense. Why on earth would I want mould myself into what women want? I will have the physique that I want, I will dress the way I want to and I will do what I want, when I want on my terms. I don't exist to please women or conform to what society and women want. I exist to live the life I want to live. I couldn't care less about what is important to women and what women want. I only care about what is important to me and what I want. Women are secondary to me, they are merely just one entertainment purpose in a world where there is lots to see and do. I'm not going to spend my life catering to what women want, I will spend my life leading the life I want to live - if I settle down with a good woman, then so be it, if I don't then I shall have no regrets because I will have enjoyed the life I have lived.

You should have enough personal accountability to keep yourself in shape. For me, as I'm sure it is with you, it's more about personal development than being some maleable plaything for a woman that can shape you any way she wants. Do you, I agree, but don't be the lazy SOB that gets fat and lacks ambition.

To the point of this thread though: I'm not quite sure why the whole looks argument always gets brought up. All things equal, the better looking, slimmer, toned up, richer guy will win the battle against the fat, uglier, douched up version of you. Good game can get you more tail than no game, but better looks and slimmer body type will do more for your perceived game with women than your actual game ever could. When you look like a beast/pimp, all you have to do is keep your mouth shut and your perceived value by women is greater than anything your mouth could possibly come up with.

 

[nismo-4]

It's always said you got to have confidence, masculinity and boldness etc. Putting aside the definition and what these factors really are or are not, you have to ask why does any guy not have the necessary confidence. A lot of it could be due to women and society is constantly signaling to them that they are not good enough looking. Ie, that make confident moves and are rejected harshly.

I know when I was younger and prettier, I didn't have to do anything for some girls to be attracted to me. Nowadays, trying every trick I've learned works less and less and not at all.

Hey Stagger, you do realize that your confidence, masculinity, boldness, savoir faire, personality, game, etc. is NOT going to suddenly make your body look better or add millions to your bank account. It won't turn a Mazda into a Maserati either.

Another thing, every trick you can think of, women know about it. Women are far better at banding together to raise up the price of love, sex, and companionship than men are at banding together to lower said price. What did you think was gonna happen when shows like "The Pickup Artist", "Can't Get A Date", and sh*t like that started being watched by millions of single men? Add to that when said men buy the PUA guides. Game, tricks, and tactics get less and less effective when too many men are using it.

Men burn to have a woman, women don't. A woman can have a man anytime she wants one. Women get a lot of dik being thrown at them all the time. Even women over 60 have this! Most men, no.

I've also learned through bitter experience that male hobbies, personality, ambition and the penis have no social value. Also, the relationship card that men have is laughable at best and bullsh*t at worst because it is useless unless the woman chooses you first. Remember that no matter what men do, say, or try, women have the final say so in what they rank the man as. Whether it be as friends, the shopping buddy, the one to be used, the boyfriend, the provider, the sex buddy, etc.

 

[perseverance]

You should have enough personal accountability to keep yourself in shape. For me, as I'm sure it is with you, it's more about personal development than being some maleable plaything for a woman that can shape you any way she wants. Do you, I agree, but don't be the lazy SOB that gets fat and lacks ambition.

I agree entirely. I just think this thread sends out the wrong message to people. It goes against everything I have learnt from this forum. Personal accountability is vital, but it shouldn't come at the expense of changing your entire being with the sole purpose of being a slave to women's dreams, wants and wishes. My personal development is about me becoming the type of man I want to be and I don't want to be a man that panders to societal whims.

 

[Burroughs]

I've also learned through bitter experience that male hobbies, personality, ambition and the penis have no social value. Also, the relationship card that men have is laughable at best and bullsh*t at worst because it is useless unless the woman chooses you first. Remember that no matter what men do, say, or try, women have the final say so in what they rank the man as. Whether it be as friends, the shopping buddy, the one to be used, the boyfriend, the provider, the sex buddy, etc.

This is very true but far too few men realize this.

if they did men would unite to insure that prostitution was plentifully available in all corners of the land...but they don't...men don't want to be free...or they truly lack the intelligence to realize what freedom is

...men are so faggotized they can be deluded by the state/elite/femcvnt cartel to go against their instincts

even on this site there are a fair number of deluded faggots who stlll chase women like lapdogs unable to comprehend that they are considered losers at best and cannon fodder at worse...but usually both at the same time :yes: so not only will women NOT FVCK most you they expect you to DIE FOR THEM REGARDLESS and most of you men are so faggotiized you'll do it anyways :crackup:

society is a complete sham when it comes to 99% of men

society benefits 1% of elite men and 100% of women.

that 99% of men don't comprehend this is beyond pathetic

 

[SoSuave666]

I agree entirely. I just think this thread sends out the wrong message to people. It goes against everything I have learnt from this forum. Personal accountability is vital, but it shouldn't come at the expense of changing your entire being with the sole purpose of being a slave to women's dreams, wants and wishes. My personal development is about me becoming the type of man I want to be and I don't want to be a man that panders to societal whims.

Agreed. Luckily for us, women are attracted to what we, as men, should hold ourselves accountable for. I think that's the reason you may be getting confused with the overall message of the thread. I dunno, I could be wrong, but one of the first things you learn when you come to this site is to live for yourself, not others. Most guys have trouble focusing on that point. It gets lost somewhere in the discussion of pvssy count and woman hating. Just gotta re-focus a bit.

 

[Naughty Ninja]

Hey Stagger, you do realize that your confidence, masculinity, boldness, savoir faire, personality, game, etc. is NOT going to suddenly make your body look better or add millions to your bank account. It won't turn a Mazda into a Maserati either.

Another thing, every trick you can think of, women know about it. Women are far better at banding together to raise up the price of love, sex, and companionship than men are at banding together to lower said price. What did you think was gonna happen when shows like "The Pickup Artist", "Can't Get A Date", and sh*t like that started being watched by millions of single men? Add to that when said men buy the PUA guides. Game, tricks, and tactics get less and less effective when too many men are using it.

Men burn to have a woman, women don't. A woman can have a man anytime she wants one. Women get a lot of dik being thrown at them all the time. Even women over 60 have this! Most men, no.

I've also learned through bitter experience that male hobbies, personality, ambition and the penis have no social value. Also, the relationship card that men have is laughable at best and bullsh*t at worst because it is useless unless the woman chooses you first. Remember that no matter what men do, say, or try, women have the final say so in what they rank the man as. Whether it be as friends, the shopping buddy, the one to be used, the boyfriend, the provider, the sex buddy, etc.

Who in their right mind uses "PUA" tactics except weirdos and desperate h0rny clowns?

Funny. I've never had to do any of that and have no problems meeting many chicks. Nor have I seen the many dudes I know who get hot chicks. Some of you guys have some serious case of tunnel vision.

Don't do anything. Just sit back and give countless reasons why everything is "against" you. You can basically go insane over any reason not to do anything in life.

 

[Mike32ct]

I agree that you need a certain minimum "base level" of attractiveness. How much you need depends on the girl. Everything else is icing on the cake.

Every "ugly guy with a great personality that Fs hotties" has at LEAST ONE physical feature that works for him. It might be height, broad shoulders, nice arms, cool hairstyle, attractive eyes, strong jaw, whatever. There is NO such thing as a COMPLETELY UGLY guy that attracts good looking women (unless he has some money or fame wildcard). His personality is simply a strong add-on to his "look."

That said, I agree with most everything in this thread.

However, it is sad that male introverts are viewed as "weak" or "low value" from a woman's perspective. But that is another topic. I don't want to knock this great thread off track.

I think the strong "pendulum swing" from "looks don't matter" to "looks matter" is, in part, a reaction to the PUA bullsh*t.

You see, men have been lied to TWICE.

First, women told us to be a nice, romantic, sensitive, funny guy, blah blah blah. We know how well that worked out lol. So some men are still bitter about that.

Then the pickup gurus came to "rescue" those bitter men with promises of "Yeah, don't be a nice guy. But DON'T WORRY ABOUT YOUR LOOKS EITHER. With our magic XYZ method, LOOKS WON'T MATTER."

So this guy spends $$$ on products and even hours "in the field" and later finds that he still struggles with women. HE GOT BURNED (ie lied to again) AGAIN. He sees what kind of guys girls go for and starts to see how looks do matter.

Then he comes back twice as bitter because he got burned for second time. Then he starts preaching the "looks matter" thing aggressively.

So, my take is this "pendulum swing," while it does have a lot of truth to it, is a delayed reaction to the PUA junk.


At the end of day, we are just trying to get back to reality. While looks do matter, I'm as guilty as some others of dwelling on it.

 

[perseverance]

Agreed. Luckily for us, women are attracted to what we, as men, should hold ourselves accountable for. I think that's the reason you may be getting confused with the overall message of the thread. I dunno, I could be wrong, but one of the first things you learn when you come to this site is to live for yourself, not others. Most guys have trouble focusing on that point. It gets lost somewhere in the discussion of pvssy count and woman hating. Just gotta re-focus a bit.

The message in this thread says to me that 'you should cater to women'. I am not catering to nobody for sh*t. Now if I have mistakenly misread the message, then I apologise, but I am not going to start riding around on a penny-farthing because Cosmopolitan says that's how men should be getting from A to B.

 

[bigneil]

A woman first observes whether you are good looking.

Next she observes WHY you are good looking. If you don't have the right act to back up her perception, you get rejected.

If you do have the right act, that itself creates an aura that supersedes looks: charisma. By projecting a positive aura, everyone will react positively.

 

[JohnChops]

Agree 100% with Atom's original post. For example , me, in high school i was chubby, dressed in rags and a girl wouldnt even look at me. Then over the course of a couple months I toned up at the gym, threw out my closet to get all new clothes , new clean shoes, and a new attitude. And the first day I went back to school walking through the hall way I turned every single god damn head of every fvcking girl that walked by. Point proven, if you keep yourself in decent shape and dress well youll be fine.


On the topic of genetic look, well we are animals and women have the instinct that they want to mate with "good genes" For example the peacock male has a flashy phenotype (large colorful feathers) to attract the female and it lets her know that this peacock is one with good genes and a high status (the alpha peacock ). The women mate with this peacock and then their genes mix to go on to create offspring with good genes. Thats far off point just saying that its in our DNA and instinct as animals that we want to mate with what we perceive to see as "good genes".

Also agree with perseverance , why would you tailor yourself to look like what a woman wants? Sounds like something a speed seducer would do , not a man. Why not keep it simple, dress with some fvcking style, and keep tone to go out and kick the world in its a$$ and have stroll through the world with ambition on one shoulder and confidence on the other and no thought of women on your mind, the women will just come naturally .... its how it is .

i feel like a lot of people over complicate these types of things and then they bring negativity into the argument but in essence we should all be thinking with a positive attitude. Brining negativity into this forum, puts it in new peoples minds and therefore they go out with a negative attitude and wondering why they fail lol. Come on guys SIMPLE! SIMPLE! SIMPLE! Like Pook said dont try to read a womens' mind, just love them instead (something along those lines ).

 

[Atom Smasher]

Another point I'd like to make...

Positive personal presentation of oneself to the world is not just for attracting women. It also garners the respect of men.

All my previously stated points about presentation boil down to one concept:

Self-Respect

When you project self-respect to the world, people will buy into your self-perception and look to you for leadership and guidance. You will be heard, and your opinions will automatically be given weight because you present yourself better than your peers.

Being a leader of men requires one to demonstrate self-respect via one's presentation. Don't be just another swirl in the great societal melting pot. If you "fit in" by dressing and acting like everyone else, you disappear.

Make yourself stand out through the simple methods I described above and you will garner respect from men and women alike.

 

[marmel75]

Remember that people who don't know you will almost always believe about you, what you believe about yourself, ie, if you project that you are confident and good looking, they will believe it...if you project that you aren't, they will believe that also...