The myth of the single woman

[Mr.Positive]

It's called dating, which means you are not committed, and its not cheating. How can someone cheat on someone, when they aren't committed?

BTW, commitment is an agreement.... not an assumption or a default.

Iqqi, haha, you may have just gotten to the root of everything here. It's possible that "commitment" has different meanings, different perceptions. If I'm spinning plates...yeah, 50% of my "plates" may be cheating.

Well done.

 

[ketostix]

I have some QUESTIONS:

If a man truly believes that actually ever encountering a "single" woman is now a MYTH, could that indeed now function as a "mask" that he conveniently wears out of a lower form of "self-preservation?

And could this "mask" be something that prevents him from confronting what could possibly be more personally FEARFUL concepts like HIS OWN approach anxiety, HIS OWN bad experiences with women (whether they be HER fault or his), OR, HIS OWN "bitterness" over what he considers past personal or strategic relationship-building failures?

And no matter WHAT the answers to those questions may be:

What is the ENDGAME to this mode of thinking------this declaration that single women are NOW mythical?

I'm saying you can ONS an attractive "single" girl or a married one but what is the difference really ethically? None in my opinion. Guru spun this into a debate over whether women who cheat are quality and whether quality women never cheat, which is fine. But if some people who disagree with the message want to attack the messenger that's a different thing. Anyone could go that route. I could go down that route and say some people hide behind a DJ mask just to feel good about themselves and women but I'm not really interested in going that route. What I will say though is all this talk of the quality man and quality woman has some truth, but in reality things aren't really so simple and clear cut.

 

[ketostix]

It's called dating, which means you are not committed, and its not cheating. How can someone cheat on someone, when they aren't committed?

BTW, commitment is an agreement.... not an assumption or a default.

Well how can someone cheat if they're really committed? There's no commitment if someone's breaking it.

 

[iqqi]

Well how can someone cheat if they're really committed? There's no commitment if someone's breaking it.

Lol... yes there is.

Then its called cheating.

Until there is an agreement to be committed, it isn't cheating.

Once there is an agreement to be committed... it IS cheating. And not good.

How can someone cheat? Easy... they are low quality (low character, low morale). No integrity.

Iqqi, haha, you may have just gotten to the root of everything here. It's possible that "commitment" has different meanings, different perceptions. If I'm spinning plates...yeah, 50% of my "plates" may be cheating.

Well done.

Thanks. I'm smart.

 

[iqqi]

I'm saying you can ONS an attractive "single" girl or a married one but what is the difference really ethically? None in my opinion.

You are a man alone in that opinion.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yo Keto,


Just to be clear: My questions were NOT meant as ANY kind of personal attack on anyone here.

BUT my questions WERE meant to try to discern what some of the possible mindsets might be that COULD be at play underneath-----AND most importantly, what would those who hold this belief that single women are mythical HAVE for us to DO with this knowledge?

 

[Mr.Positive]

Well how can someone cheat if they're really committed? There's no commitment if someone's breaking it.

So..there's no such thing as cheating? Just people lacking commitment?

Women do cheat, men cheat, people fvck up and chase away their families. That's reality.

Keto, the point is that if a woman is married...yes, she does have a commitment. A LEGAL document. Ask any attorney if a married woman is..in fact...married.

If a woman is single, all is fair in love and war. If you know the guy, than that's your call. I'm believe in bro's before ho's, if you will. If I lose a gal to another guy, well, he just saved me an expensive divorce in the long run.

 

[ketostix]

Lol... yes there is.

Then its called cheating.

Until there is an agreement to be committed, it isn't cheating.

Once there is an agreement to be committed... it IS cheating. And not good.

How can someone cheat? Easy... they are low quality (low character, low morale). No integrity.

But the point is the person who made the commitment is the one cheating, not another person who hasn't made a commitment. A person who made the commitment and is willing to break it has essentially broken the commitment whether they go fukk someone else or not, it's just a matter of time. The commitment means no more than no commitment at that point.

 

[iqqi]

AND most importantly, what would those who hold this belief that single women are mythical HAVE for us to DO with this knowledge?

I think its his way of saying its cool to sleep with married women.

Because married women are the same as single women. Because single women don't really exist. Which would make them... not single... and not committed...

Lol. Make sense of that!

Keto, are they all committed? Or are they all single?!

 

[iqqi]

But the point is the person who made the commitment is the one cheating, not another person who hasn't made a commitment.

A commitment is an AGREEMENT. Both parties must agree. One person can't commit, and the other NOT commit. That isn't a commitment.

A person who made the commitment and is willing to break it has essentially broken the commitment whether they go fukk someone else or not, it's just a matter of time. The commitment means no more than no commitment at that point.

This is true. And at this point you have another agreement, called a break up, or a divorce.

 

[ketostix]

Yo Keto,


Just to be clear: My questions were NOT meant as ANY kind of personal attack on anyone here.

BUT my questions WERE meant to try to discern what some of the possible mindsets might be that COULD be at play underneath-----AND most importantly, what would those who hold this belief that single women are mythical HAVE for us to DO with this knowledge?

Well OK, my answer would be as I explained before, that I don't personally find PU and seduction a particularly ethical thing. It's something that a person makes the best of. Women and sex is basically a dirty business when you cut through it all. It's not the same thing as familial love. you make the best of it and you enjoy it for what it is, but that doesn't mean you have to go in with blinders on to do so. What is the takeaway message that the single girl is a myth? Well that wasn't really my aim, anyone can do or not do with it as they see fit. But I'd say one is if you're the guy who's getting physical with her then you are ahead of some other guy lol.

 

[STR8UP]

Keto,

I know exactly where you are coming from. I think that:

1) People don't want to hear what you/we are saying in the first place because it has the potential to destroy THEIR fantasy.

2) Neither one of us has been eloquent enough in our words to get the point across. This is evident in the fact that this has gone off topic.

Here's the way I see it. People love to draw lines. They can come up with all sorts of reasons why we have developed our theories, but the main theme I see with people who refuse to acknowledge the facts is that they are so quick to assign everything into its own category. And they call US out on generalizing and stereotyping and such???

Doesn't make sense to me, but from where I stand it has a lot to do with the final layer of the "matrix" that they have yet to break through.

Every woman is "quality" or not.

Every woman is "single" or "committed".

They have problems understanding that BOTH of these ideas are a sliding scale, and that the vast majority of us fall somewhere in the middle.

But you can't tell them that.

"Date QUALITY women and your troubles will cease to exist!"

"Fukking a married woman is UNCONDITIONALLY wrong, and fukking a "single" woman is UNCONDITIONALLY ok, because [insert personal belief here]."

It's so much easier for most people to go through life choosing the value meal instead of taking the time to read the menu. Some of these guys in their 20's might have a shot at breaking out of that mentality, but sadly most guys who reach their mid 30's and still think this way are gonna think this way for the rest of their lives.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Well OK, my answer would be as I explained before, that I don't personally find PU and seduction a particularly ethical thing. It's something that a person makes the best of. Women and sex is basically a dirty business when you cut through it all. It's not the same thing as familial love. you make the best of it and you enjoy it for what it is, but that doesn't mean you have to go in with blinders on to do so. What is the takeaway message that the single girl is a myth? Well that wasn't really my aim, anyone can do or not do with it as they see fit. But I'd say one is if you're the guy who's getting physical with her then you are ahead of some other guy lol.

Keto, I think this is a good thread you started here. I think we can all pull from our different experiences, and learn, as men.

The way I see it, there's no 100% in life, and women. If a commitment is made, as men, we honor that....and we don't put up with any BS.

A commitment is really, like you said, only worth what both, man and woman, put into it.

 

[ketostix]

A commitment is an AGREEMENT. Both parties must agree. One person can't commit, and the other NOT commit. That isn't a commitment.

OK you are taking when I said a "guy who was commited" as to mean I said there was a commitment. I never said a single girl was comitted. what i said is just because she didn't agree to a commitment doesn't mean someone isn't losing if she fukks someone else. While it's true a married/"commited" woman is likely secretly breaking her commitment with a ONS, I don't really see how the responsibility falls on the other person without a commitment. The onus falls on the commited person.

 

[Mr.Positive]

It's so much easier for most people to go through life choosing the value meal instead of taking the time to read the menu. Some of these guys in their 20's might have a shot at breaking out of that mentality, but sadly most guys who reach their mid 30's and still think this way are gonna think this way for the rest of their lives.

Str8up, the "value meal" is not what most guys here are striving for. You go ahead and settle for that value meal, see it if doesn't cheat on you.

You are better than that. I'm better than that. The value meal is NOT the goal.

I believe the menu, for most of us here on sosuave, has a varied list of quality women to choose from. Making that choice is what matters to us now.

 

[STR8UP]

Well OK, my answer would be as I explained before, that I don't personally find PU and seduction a particularly ethical thing. It's something that a person makes the best of. Women and sex is basically a dirty business when you cut through it all.

Yea, when you strip it down to the bare bones it's easy to see how the chicks on Dr. Phil might have a point when they say that they are "uncomfortable" with the fact that there are guys out there who study the art of seducing women, yet the same women gobble up the romance from a "natural" which is perfectly ok, because he isn't aware of his motives. It's six of one, half dozen of another, but you can't tell people that.

The way I see it the guys on here who buy into this "1" or "0" way of thinknig are the same as the women on Dr. Phil who don't realize that two guys are doing the same thing, yet they condemn one and applaud the other.

 

[iqqi]

While it's true a married/"commited" woman is likely secretly breaking her commitment with a ONS, I don't really see how the responsibility falls on the other person without a commitment. The onus falls on the commited person.

I agree with the last part you wrote, somewhat. I've toed the line with a committed person before, though I myself have never dishonoured a commitment that I myself held. However I have always lost a certain amount of respect - and then attraction, for the person who was betraying their commitment, and never actually crossed the line. This I would think has something to do with my own values for myself... and what I consider quality.

 

[ketostix]

Every woman is "quality" or not.

Every woman is "single" or "committed".

They have problems understanding that BOTH of these ideas are a sliding scale, and that the vast majority of us fall somewhere in the middle.

But you can't tell them that.

"Date QUALITY women and your troubles will cease to exist!"

"Fukking a married woman is UNCONDITIONALLY wrong, and fukking a "single" woman is UNCONDITIONALLY ok, because [insert personal belief here]."

This is what I was trying to get at. Not only is it a sliding scale and most people are in the middle, it's also not static. People move around the scale for various reasons. Sometimes the same person is being more good or "quality" and at other times not so good or "low quality". Women I believe tend to go up and down the scale more than men do just as their emotions go up and down more.

I will give the other camp at least one concession. You might not always know if your girl is cheating but a DJ will usually always know something is up with her. The difference comes down to are you going to be a denier or are you going to accept what's probably true.

 

[STR8UP]

Str8up, the "value meal" is not what most guys here are striving for. You go ahead and settle for that value meal, see it if doesn't cheat on you.

You are better than that. I'm better than that. The value meal is NOT the goal.

Um....that's not what I was saying.

The "value meal" example was about guys who would rather not THINK about the harsh reality of the mating game.

I believe the menu, for most of us here on sosuave, has a varied list of quality women to choose from. Making that choice is what matters to us now.

This is the sticking point. This is what Keto and I are trying to get at. It isn't as simple as "choosing a quality woman and all will be fine".

It's about realizing that "quality" and "low quality" exist in everyone.

 

[Mr.Positive]

This is the sticking point. This is what Keto and I are trying to get at. It isn't as simple as "choosing a quality woman and all will be fine".

It's about realizing that "quality" and "low quality" exist in everyone.

Str8up, great point. It's up to us to choose wisely.

Where I'm coming from, is that, with the knowledge that we have. The fact, that we've put forth the effort to learn how things really work.

We should be able to filter out the women that are out to use us. The women that will cheat, branch swing, etc.

We have good tests, and each other here, to fend off these women...and to accept the women that do fit us, as individuals.