The Marriage Goal

[lee36044]

I've found that the majority of people are like this. Thankfully, my best friend and I have been reinventing what we personally believe is the best way for him and I to live our lives. We constantly see conformity as a bad thing, mainly because the people going that route are unhappy unless they are doing key things differently. It baffles me that when people are unhappy with their lives they preach exactly what they did, instead of looking at what they could do differently to improve things.

For most of us, conformity is the only viable route to establishing a truly nonconformist lifestyle. Unless you are rockstar or an inventor with a product that really sells that is!

The trouble is that most noncomformists forget why they were conforming before they reach the goal. They get lazy. They fall into the traps along the way. They mistake contentment for happiness. By the time their conformal lifestyle let's them attain the means to live a nonconformist lifestyle they have already forgotten it was ever a goal. And to admit that is to admit a flaw, it's embarrassing, so they preach the conformal liestyle instead of the true beliefs they abandoned along the way.

And true non-conformity without the means to practice it undisturbed by society either shows itself to be unfeasible with the practitioners returning to conformity and rejecting their beliefs (ask any sixties hippie who believed communal living was the answer if you don't believe me). Or it becomes a facet of society and is then by definition conformist behavior.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

For most of us, conformity is the only viable route to establishing a truly nonconformist lifestyle.

Why is that? How does following the beliefs of the masses make someone unique?

 

[lee36044]

Why is that? How does following the beliefs of the masses make someone unique?

I don't seem to put across my thoughts well. Unless your idea of non conformity involves practising it in some out of the way place away from societies scrutiny, or it is a minor matter easily hidden inside your personal domain, it takes financial and social means sufficient to free you from the penalties society will try to impose on you for practicing said non conformance.

The only way to get those means for most is by reaching a point through conformity where you can finally live your beliefs no matter what forces are brought to bear in attempts to force you to conform.

 

[joekerr31]

its nto about the beliefs of the masses. its about MONEY.

the world runs on money. if you can survive without it. or find a way to make it that is non comformist, thats great.

the reason conformity exists is because people need money.

back in the farming days you could do whatever you want. f*ck cows at night if you want to. no one would give a sh*t. conformity was fairly laisser faire. aside from religious doctrines folks did what they wanted.

but once the industrialized era hit and the assembly line took hold and the population exploded, conformity became the norm out of necessity.

even if you take the path of non conformity, to make a lot of money you will still depend on the conformists to buy whatever you are selling.

and even if you save so much that you can live off the interest you make investing in the stock market - you are still utilizing a system developed by the conformists and making money off companies selling to the conformists.

so unless you move to some farming community in the boonies and live like its 1650, you are part of the conformity we call society.

that said, the best solution is to beat the system at its own game. get to the top of the pyramid scheme so that you can drop out of the rat race and do whatever the hell you want. then you can buy a farm and f*ck cows up the *ss all night if you want.

the good thing though is that as you work your way through the system you are still free to think and feel however you want.

we are free in our beliefs, but until you got a million or two in the bank you ain't physically free in this world.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I don't seem to put across my thoughts well. Unless your idea of non conformity involves practising it in some out of the way place away from societies scrutiny, or it is a minor matter easily hidden inside your personal domain, it takes financial and social means sufficient to free you from the penalties society will try to impose on you for practicing said non conformance.

The only way to get those means for most is by reaching a point through conformity where you can finally live your beliefs no matter what forces are brought to bear in attempts to force you to conform.

I see what you're getting at but I have yet to encounter any non-conformist activity outside of breaking the law (getting caught speeding) where it had cost me financially. Could you give an example?

 

[lee36044]

I see what you're getting at but I have yet to encounter any non-conformist activity outside of breaking the law (getting caught speeding) where it had cost me financially. Could you give an example?

I think that pretty much establishes the point! Most non comformist behavior is illegal! But to put it in perspective ... living with a woman out of wedlock was still considered non conformist when I was young ... now it is simply a social choice. I'm sure if you think about it you can find more examples like that. And I'll bet in every case ... it's easier behavior to engage in if you have already achieved some measure of conformist success!

And since in many cases noconformity is illegal, lets put it this way. When a guy has climbed the conformist ladder to become a succesful executive making six figures or more. And he then uses his income and status to arrange to gratify his non conforming desire to host boozing, doping, sex orgies at his vacation home without suffering arrest and exposure. He will probably be succesful! Granted if that becomes his lifestyle ... he will be caught and punished eventually. But it is a valid example of achieving mainstream success to be able to engage in non conformist behavior.

Try that if you work 9 to 5 and live in the burbs! You and many of your guests will be rudely educated on the amenities and hospitality available at the local graybar hotel! How much conformity you must endure attain the ability to engage in your nonconformist desires depends entirely on what portion of conformity you reject and how visible that rejection is to society!

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yo,



I believe that sometimes we make TOO MUCH of our quest towards noncomformity.

It's quite possible that the difference between conformity and nonconformity are only a matter of a few degrees of separation.

Back on TOPIC:

To a polygamist living in a polygamist's community, becoming a monogamist would be nonconformist behavior.

To a traditional Judeo-Christian couple living a conventional lifestyle in a conventional community, moving to a Atheistic/Agnostic community of couples who participate in the Swingers lifestyle would be nonconformist behavior.

So again, even the definition of conformity can only be traced by FIRST clarifying exactly what any man's personal morals and values are----IF he has any...and if he DOESN'T have any, there is NO foundational launchpad from which a conclusive definition can be derived.

Any man who decides the worthiness of his lifestyle by measuring it against it's similarities to the lives of OTHERS is just a Lemming who walks backwards.

Why? Because to go against the grain for NO valid and well thought out reason is SOMETIMES the hallmark of an insecure, immature, or spiritually restless person.

Yes...SOMETIMES, being a Rebel JUST for Rebellion's sake is actually only STUPIDITY in disguise.


Let's all check our motivations, soldiers...

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...Yes...SOMETIMES, being a Rebel JUST for Rebellion's sake is actually only STUPIDITY in disguise....

I completely agree but I also believe that there is a difference between rebels and nonconformist.

 

[blueguy]

Happiness imo is related to three things: purpose, relationships, health. So yes, when your life is filled with purpose (key: purpose that you enjoy), you can be happy. Like Francisco said, having said you accomplished things won't make you happy, but being in the process of accomplishing them (given that you like them) - that is happiness. It's a journey not a destination. Once you stop pursuing (purpose, relationships), the happiness ends.

Some people look to marriage and children as purpose in life, but I think that they're best used as an enrichment to your already purposeful life.

Having said all that, you still have to be on the lookout for a wife if you want to have kids. If you spend all your time with the slutty girls, then soon your chances are gone.

Or you could adopt. Or you could spend 20 years with a wretched ho.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

..Some people look to marriage and children as purpose in life, but I think that they're best used as an enrichment to your already purposeful life....

And that you want to share your enriched life with others (your wife and children).

 

[kyphan]

I think my post was taken to the extreme.

I am not preaching living some completely nonconformist lifestyle. He and I choose not to think and act like everyone else. Our ideas and personal philosophies clash in many areas as well, so we are not even trying to be like one another! The key is we make our decisions based on what each of us believes is the best way for us to live our lives.

That is the most important thing: do what you want because you think it is the best for you. I do not listen to my parents when it comes to how to live my life - and the funny thing is, my mom believes I will be better off in the long run because I refuse to follow their footsteps.

 

[ElChoclo]

Marriage is an outmoded concept. The reason why conservatives oppose homosexual marriages is because the concept then becomes such a parody that it finally has to be tossed out.

Likewise, they have to tell you that it makes you happy. If they told you that it made you unhappy, would there be any takers? It is claimed that marriage is good for men because married men live longer (supposedly). I always say in response to that one (woman propaganda), that it is really because the healthier wealthier men are more attractive to women, and therefore have a greater propensity to find a wife.

 

[squirrels]

Have we become so emascualted a society that we have to chant our mantras to stay faithful to people with whom we make committments to?

Yes.

 

[Dapper]

I'm looking to get married again. I'm ready after 10 years living single :woo: and mamma drama. Whoever she is, she's gotta like my BALLS cus I'm wearin' em :yes:

________________________________

If you gets no respect, you gives no respect :rockon:

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

I agree RT. Great post. I'll add...

The rift, as I feel and see it, has made men, well, loathe marriage to an extent. And maybe not all men loathe it, but seeing marriage as a "Woman's Thing," means you've given up Everything to give her {Marriage}, like it's some eternal gift. It is...TO YOURSELF. You're giving yourself to her, she's giving herself to you. You give up your Other prospects of women, freedom, income, assets, genetic mixing sauce, make compromises, etc, as she Should do the same, when entering such a pact.

And this rift, has glamorized the wedding industry and marriage itself, such that marriage isn't about the man...like he'd never [choose] it. Well, der, if you're not choosing it, who is? If it's not your choice, who's is it? Did she choose for you, as you would program a robot's choice?

I hear guys who proclaim they want it, and maybe the idea, or just WANT/NEED the woman...why? Is that love, or have we whittled a person into an object, and like all objects, become replaceable? My "feeling" is, when confine people to specific things or roles or to the task of providing us with positive emotion, we pigeon hole them, and once that task is no longer being filled, we drop them.

Marriage is a mutual committment, IMO. And by ascenting to it, on the man's behalf, his life should be BETTER, than if he did not. An like all goals', once you hit it, you'll need to keep moving...it isn't a DESTINATION, but a journey.


A-Unit

 

[azanon]

If some of you guys, Vulpine/others, are pulling in these chicks weekly, or even daily, in massive variety, then man i have to bow to you guys. IF you're really doing that, then why not, by all means continue. That sounds like fun. I will admit I am jealous of the single man's flexibility, especially with what i know now, much of which I've learned since studying seduction.

But still from where i'm sitting, there's drawbacks. To just list one advantage i have, if i wanted p**** right now as I write this, do you know how long it would be before I would be inside "her"? Less than 5 minutes. Can the single man living alone say that? If i wait a minute longer though, i'll have to wait an hour. Want to know why? Because she's about to bust her ass doing an hour long session of tae bo. Know why shes does that? Because i trained her to. She's 32 and looks 26.

Marry a young-in and you can train them to your liking. You dont have to deal with the randon s*** from different women. Surely that has to get tiring from time to time, Vulpine/others?

 

[azanon]

I agree that marriage isn't the answer, and I do not understand why you guys can't just live with women and do everything you ever want EXCEPT signing your marital contracts. And YES there are women who will be fine with this - having you around while letting you dictate the terms.

There are 100s of martial financial benefits to both parties involved, depending on a variety of factors (such as employer, state you live in). The gay community is fighting vigorously to obtain the right to marry. As just a small, but massive example of this, i have a flat-rate, full coverage health insurance policy from my employer that covers "self and family", family being definied as "spouse and children".

Do we have folks under 25 participating here? I'm assuming so do to the obvious ignorance of marital benefits. As an atheist, i'm not terribly excited about the whole idea of marriage, its obvious strong ties to being a religious arrangement, etc. But the fact remains that in America, if you want to open the door to a lot of benefits for you and your partner/children, you get married.

Coversely, all you have to do is watch a little bit of Judge Judy to get just a small idea of whats its like to simply "live together", get all your financial crap intermixed, then have no recourse for getting anything back in a fair manner because you're not married.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

would you settle for a companion much sooner to cure the loneliness.

This notion is perhaps the biggest AFC rationale ever perpetrated on men. Is lonelines a disease that necessitates a cure? If men could be made to believe so, think of the potential profit to be made from, and the potential for manipulation of, men. The real test for a man is how he lives with himself, alone. Precious few men ever truly allow themselves to be alone and learn real independence and self-reliance. The vast majority of guys (particularly in western culture) tend to transition from mother to wife with little or no intermission between, going from LTR to LTR until they 'settle' without ever having learned how to interact as an adult.

The fear of loneliness is entirely too exaggerated in modern western romaticism. The popularized fear-mythology of becoming the "lonely old man who never loved" is the new 'old maid' myth made popular in an era when a woman's worth was dependent upon her marital status and equally as false a premise. But in our brave new generation AFC, men (who've become women) are repackaged and shamed into believing this horsesh!t as part & parcel of this feminized gender role reversal. And thus we get Speed Dating and eHarmony and a host of other "conveniences" to pacify the insecurities that this reversal makes poor fatherless boys believe we 'should' have as part of ourselves by no other virtue than that we were born male. Fukk that!

No man is an island to be sure, but the strong are strongest alone. Don't buy into the powder-puff idea that if you don't find your ONE by the time you're 30 and ASAP you'll tempt fate and risk a life of quiet desperation. This contrivance only serves the interests of women who's imperative it is to enjoy their party years in their 20's with as many Jerks as they can attract and have a stable Nice Guy who's petrified he'll live a life of loneliness and desperation waiting for them at 28-30 to marry and ensure their long term security.

Don't buy this lie. The man who is comfortable with himself and confident in his true independence is the one that women will want to be associated with and to share in it. How you handle being alone and what you do with that freedom is the real measure of a man.

 

[STR8UP]

Don't buy this lie. The man who is comfortable with himself and confident in his true independence is the one that women will want to be associated with and to share in it. How you handle being alone and what you do with that freedom is the real measure of a man.

I am at the absolute top of my game all around when I have been alone for a period of time and have become used to the idea and comfortable with the fact. Funny how as soon as that happens the women come out of the woodwork

 

[azanon]

Did you honestly just say that it is easier to lose your stuff without being married?

Did you honestly just completely ignore my comments about the 100+ marriage benefits?

I bet more than half of the folks talking about losing their stuff in this forum are under 25 and don't even have a decent job; as if you probably even have something to lose. You'd be the one to stand to gain financially from a marriage, lol.

(edit) I did a brief check of your history, and my suspicions were confirmed; still in school and no (real) job. Post less, read more.

Another point Oxide, some states have common law marriages, so even if you just live together with your "significant other", after a period of time, you'd have to get a divorce anyway and would be subject to everything that would be subject to in an official marriage. States with common law marriages are:
Alabama
Colorado
Georgia (if created before 1/1/97)
Idaho (if created before 1/1/96)
Iowa
Kansas
Montana
New Hampshire (for inheritance purposes only)
Ohio (if created before 10/10/91)
Oklahoma (possibly only if created before 11/1/98. Oklahoma's laws and court decisions may be in conflict about whether common law marriages formed in that state after 11/1/98 will be recognized.)
Pennsylvania (if created before 1/1/05)
Rhode Island
South Carolina
Texas
Utah
Washington, D.C.