The inverse relationship between looks and character

[Rollo Tomassi]

This is just going to come back around to definitions again. "Ho" is just as ambiguous as "Quality Woman." Girl who cheated on you (for any reason) = Ho. Girl who accepts your approach and becomes intimate with you (thus affirming your imagined standards) = Quality Woman. Shoot the arrow, paint the target around it - Bullseye!

HUMANIST, I think you're convoluting a lot of principles here. Just because a Law of Power may out line a specific circumstance doesn't mean anyone has the wherewithal to apply it to themselves. As has been mention countless times, AFCs can and do get laid. Likewise women of "low character" rarely have a problem with filling their dance card while she's still a solid HB9. Both of their methodologies are reinforced when they successfully become intimate in using them. While I think it's wise not to associate with the unhappy and unlucky, that's not to say there aren't 100 more Cap'n Save A Ho's ready to do so, thus reinforcing and perpetuating the system.

 

[ketostix]

This is just going to come back around to definitions again. "Ho" is just as ambiguous as "Quality Woman." Girl who cheated on you (for any reason) = Ho. Girl who accepts your approach and becomes intimate with you (thus affirming your imagined standards) = Quality Woman. Shoot the arrow, paint the target around it - Bullseye!

Yeah, I would say that an HB9 is more apt to be quality than a HB6-8. The HB9 doesn't have to compromise in her view in choosing a man. So if she decides to get intimiate with a guy she's less likely to have compromised and therefore is less likely to be looking for a BBD constantly. It's the 6-8's who compromise the most, cheat the most and have the view of more men being higher value than her. In other words, while most every guy wants the 9, she sees few guys as viable options. The 6-8's on the other hand has just as many guys obstensibly interested in her and she sees more of them as viable options.

 

[TheHumanist]

This is just going to come back around to definitions again. "Ho" is just as ambiguous as "Quality Woman." Girl who cheated on you (for any reason) = Ho. Girl who accepts your approach and becomes intimate with you (thus affirming your imagined standards) = Quality Woman. Shoot the arrow, paint the target around it - Bullseye!

HUMANIST, I think you're convoluting a lot of principles here. Just because a Law of Power may out line a specific circumstance doesn't mean anyone has the wherewithal to apply it to themselves. As has been mention countless times, AFCs can and do get laid. Likewise women of "low character" rarely have a problem with filling their dance card while she's still a solid HB9. Both of their methodologies are reinforced when they successfully become intimate in using them. While I think it's wise not to associate with the unhappy and unlucky, that's not to say there aren't 100 more Cap'n Save A Ho's ready to do so, thus reinforcing and perpetuating the system.

I think you misunderstood me, I'm not talking about success in getting laid, or methodology, or men being Cap'n Save A Ho. My questioning is the of the "properly motivated HB9" and the idea that making her into a housewife. I question that a man can make a HB9 though great skill of keeping a sustainable response and encourage and mold her into the person he wants. Like I said earlier, you can make her read a book, it is another thing to make her like it. With enough interest, you can make a HB9 act as nice with social graces and so on, but making her be that is a different thing and I suspect that it takes her own experience by herself to become that.

 

[bigjohnson]

It's been my observation that people in general are often a little lazy and women are no exception. They will expend the effort needed to get what they want, generally male attention and approval. Beyond that they have no real incentive.

So if they have a train of panting manginas behind them why should they fold your shirts? They likely know how. They are capable, not crippled. They lack only incentive.

Figuring out how to motivate them is the trick and I have to admit I'm not a master at it yet.


Just my $0.02, so YMMV.

 

[Fallen]

I agree. People change when they have to. Not a second earlier. Some don't change at all.
The focus of this discussion lies in "Quality Women" and the definition of it.

I wouldn't necessarily count the level of education into this "quality". Don't know about the U.S. but here in Germany you have a lot of good looking girls getting their degrees and getting their education. Because it's the thing to do. Unless they are sponsored by daddy and would never ever have to work for money because they already got enough of it. But that is the exception ( at least with the people i know and have heard of ) Most people today have to work to maintain/raise their level of wealth and lifestyle ( or lack of )

The things i consider to be "quality" are certain character traits that have nothing to do with education. Like accountability, responsibility, passion, pleasantness, no flake, down to earth etc.

And this whole package would really be an exception. At least in my ( limited ) experience. Even the "good" girls that i met over time displayed one or more of those less desired qualities to a certain extent. Especially flakiness followed by totally not understanding and wondering why i would cut contact or in more severe cases calling them on it.

She knows exactly what she's doing and especially what she's doing wrong but she doesn't feel guilty or stressed about it but hey, it works anyway doesn't it?
Why would she change that or even think about that more than a second?
She didn't develop these more desirable character traits because SHE NEVER HAD TO.

Even when a beautiful girl has her sh!t together, is educated and intelligent, loves her family, works/studies hard, is fun and pleasant to be with, there would still be a total different understanding in the male/female game because she is used to have guys hanging around, calling, texting and never ever leaving "just because" she flakes from time to time.

 

[MatureDJ]

Look at it from an evolutionary perspective. Consider the difference in fecundity between the human and the semi-distance cousin the rat. A human has relatively few offspring, but has a low pre-parenting death rate. OTOH, the rat has a large number of offspring, but most of the rats get eaten by wolves, snakes, eagles, etc. The bottom line is that nature will endow surviving genotypes with just enough of advantage to make it; those genotypes that don't have enough will go extinct.

The genes that develop into a hot looking woman will thus necessarily not include genes for a pleasant personality, as an attractive woman doesn't need anything else for some men to stick his pen!s into her. The genes for the homely woman must include a personality that will entice men to be with her enough to overcome the lack of physical attractiveness, including a sexual aggressiveness that could be of use with the more laid back male.

 

[ketostix]

Look at it from an evolutionary perspective. Consider the difference in fecundity between the human and the semi-distance cousin the rat. A human has relatively few offspring, but has a low pre-parenting death rate. OTOH, the rat has a large number of offspring, but most of the rats get eaten by wolves, snakes, eagles, etc. The bottom line is that nature will endow surviving genotypes with just enough of advantage to make it; those genotypes that don't have enough will go extinct.

The genes that develop into a hot looking woman will thus necessarily not include genes for a pleasant personality, as an attractive woman doesn't need anything else for some men to stick his pen!s into her. The genes for the homely woman must include a personality that will entice men to be with her enough to overcome the lack of physical attractiveness, including a sexual aggressiveness that could be of use with the more laid back male.

I don't agree with that theory that a persons looks has a genetic link to their personality. I think a lot of studies show physically attractive people are healthy and more intelligent than unattractive people. I don't agree that a hot looking woman have less pleasant personalities to begin with, but if they did I think it would be attributal to societal and socilization factors.

 

[jophil28]

This thread is becoming hijacked by tangetial debates.

Of course there are Quality Women, in the same way that there are Quality men . There also are quality automobiles and quality architecture and quality science. There are quality relationships and quality marriages.
Conversely there are women whom we label "ho's" or low quality women . There are men whom we would not want as a friend or a business partner. There are poorly built cars which we would not own or drive, and there are numerous examples of the built environment which we would not work in, live in or invest in.
And now we come to the fun part . All Quality items share similar characteristics . All quality women and men share similar characteristics as do relationships and successful marriages. Quality woman, men,. cars, office buildings, and moon rockets are remarkably similar in their construction and performance philiosophy . They are reliable, trustworthy, strong and resilient, resitant to external forces, self regulating ,and ultimately durable.

And that is the way the world is.

Look at the world around you for the evidence.

 

[STR8UP]

This thread is becoming hijacked by tangetial debates.

Of course there are Quality Women, in the same way that there are Quality men . There also are quality automobiles and quality architecture and quality science. There are quality relationships and quality marriages.
Conversely there are women whom we label "ho's" or low quality women . There are men whom we would not want as a friend or a business partner. There are poorly built cars which we would not own or drive, and there are numerous examples of the built environment which we would not work in, live in or invest in.
And now we come to the fun part . All Quality items share similar characteristics . All quality women and men share similar characteristics as do relationships and successful marriages. Quality woman, men,. cars, office buildings, and moon rockets are remarkably similar in their construction and performance philiosophy . They are reliable, trustworthy, strong and resilient, resitant to external forces, self regulating ,and ultimately durable.

And that is the way the world is.

Look at the world around you for the evidence.

As Rollo already made clear.....paint the target around the arrow and you get a bulls eye every time.

Architecture and automobiles aren't reliant upon moral obligations to determine integrity at a future date, as are humans.

Get this "ho" vs "quality woman" mindset out of your head. They all fall in shades of grey.

 

[jophil28]

Get this "ho" vs "quality woman" mindset out of your head. They all fall in shades of grey.

Well you can continue to believe your peculiar version of relativism (and RTs)and worship your "perception is reality " philosophy if you so choose.
I look forward to many years of entertainment from your future sob stories about women who cheat on you, flake, lie to you and toy with your emotions. These behaviors are are guaranteed to impact you repeatedly because you choose to live in the world of "Shades of grey". What you really mean is they you will not label poor female behavior appropriately when you encounter it because you have weak boundaries to begin with.
This is the "relationships at any price" mentality.

Granted, labeling does not usually brings you any friends, but it does allow you to see who your enemies are likely to be.
You will continue to whine and baitch about woman who act poorly BUT now you can no longer call them "low quality" because you have joined the PC chorus of leftie sermonisers on this board who preach relativism and pragmatism as some lofty ideology.

Good luck.

 

[ketostix]

Well I think some women have good character or at least better character than others, and many women lack character. But I don't think hot girls have less character than the 6's-7's or the less attractive ones have. So in a sense I agree with RT, azanon, STR8UP and Jophil at the same time.

 

[thisishowitis]

What the hell makes a girl hot?

Imo, most supposedly hot girls are average when you remove the make-up, the fancy hair, and the tight clothes. Kim Kardashian goes from a 9 to a 6. Eva longoria goes from a 9 to a 5. Of course, imo.

I think if we werent bombarded with images of what a "hot" woman should look like than we wouldn't set our expectations so high.

I think all women have pretty good character. It's just that some women are bull****ted by people in their lives. A lot of women are abused by their parents. A lot of women are hit on constantly by dudes who just wanna get their rocks off, and I can see how that would get annoying.

My own mother was abused by her parents and it did damage her.

How can a dude say a woman is being manipulative when he is being more manipulative than her? To be honest, I probably have manipulated women much more than women have ever manipulated me.

When you talk to a woman with the intention of just screwing her and tossing her, that is manipulative, to a certain extent.

Maybe if you'd view and treat a "hb9" as no more than a human being, then she wouldn't feel the need to play games, and even if she did, you could handle it much better.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Well you can continue to believe your peculiar version of relativism (and RTs)and worship your "perception is reality " philosophy if you so choose.
I look forward to many years of entertainment from your future sob stories about women who cheat on you, flake, lie to you and toy with your emotions.

Keep waiting, I've been happily married for more than 12 years now. How long were you married before the divorce and became "disillusioned with relationships"? Perhaps as a result of your moral absolutisms? Just asking,..

 

[squirrels]

If you're a woman and you look good, you don't have to cultivate a personality. Everything is given to you by pandering men trying to get with you.

There's more to the story, but that's the nutshell. There are exceptions. A lot of them are married.

It's the game. Whatcha gonna do?

 

[Duffdog]

What the hell makes a girl hot?

Imo, most supposedly hot girls are average when you remove the make-up, the fancy hair, and the tight clothes. Kim Kardashian goes from a 9 to a 6. Eva longoria goes from a 9 to a 5. Of course, imo.

I think if we werent bombarded with images of what a "hot" woman should look like than we wouldn't set our expectations so high.

I think all women have pretty good character. It's just that some women are bull****ted by people in their lives. A lot of women are abused by their parents. A lot of women are hit on constantly by dudes who just wanna get their rocks off, and I can see how that would get annoying.

My own mother was abused by her parents and it did damage her.

How can a dude say a woman is being manipulative when he is being more manipulative than her? To be honest, I probably have manipulated women much more than women have ever manipulated me.

When you talk to a woman with the intention of just screwing her and tossing her, that is manipulative, to a certain extent.

Maybe if you'd view and treat a "hb9" as no more than a human being, then she wouldn't feel the need to play games, and even if she did, you could handle it much better.

Ill tell you what makes a girl 'hot'. The fact that a larger number of men like her. Anthropological definitions of attractiveness change over the years and in regions, but if a large number of men consider her attractive, then she is. Its simply a matter of scarcity-- fact is, in the US, there are a large number of overwieght, ugly chics. I would make the arbitrary claim that no matter what type of target painting you are engaged in, they are still fat and ugly, and therefore low-quality. Now you have a difference between good females and bad ones. Everyone wants a good one (whatever benchmark the largest number of men choose to use to describe her) and nobody wants a bad one (again, taking the idea that if nobody wants her, she is automatically bad) Then you will see that hot girls are scarce. And things that are scarce have higher value. One can make the claim that hot girl A is like a Lexus and ugly girl B is like a Hyundai. Every part of the Lexus is better than every part of the Hyundai-- though some may say "But Hyundais are cheaper" = (girl has good character) Which is a fancy way of going around the fact that you settled for a Huyndai and didn't go for the Lex. It doesn't matter what her character is, hotness makes up for whatever character flaws people can come up with. And for what its worth, no females have good character, I believe that they are all *****s and all cheat-- people who think otherwise are deluding themselves and will soon be crying about how their girlfriend cheated on them. Just remember, no matter how you feel about females, 80% of all marriages in the U.S. result in divorce. That means when YOU get married theres an 80% chance YOU will be divorced.


Can anyone honestly say they would actually tell a 9 they wouldn't sleep with her because she lacked "strong moral character"?

 

[Colossus]

Get this "ho" vs "quality woman" mindset out of your head. They all fall in shades of grey.

At the risk of derailing my own thread even further, this attitude is what will keep you coming back here with the same woes, running into the same types of women over and over and over. There comes a point when you have to say no to relativism and put down some fvcking non-negotiables.

The point of my topic was that the better looking a woman gets, the less likely she is to have the attributes that make for a worthy LTR. It's not purely opinion, this is just the way it is. You cant change the game, but you can get better.

I have long held that the hottest women tend to make some of the worst girlfriends. Rollo described some of the reasons in depth. I have seen it (and experienced it) over and over. Does this mean I preclude all hot women as the potential Mrs. Colossus? Of course not. But I keep my experiences and observations in mind when I encounter them.

"Quality" is real, make no mistake about it. The 'quality myth' argument has validity, however, because AFCs (and DJs) can use it to excuse their own lack of game and boundaries. If things went down the tubes with a particular woman he can just write her off with the 'low quality' excuse, which maybe she was, but it becomes a cop-out for maybe having poor judgment in the first place.

As much as there is often an attribute trade-off (i.e. looks for character), all women are NOT created equal, I'm sorry. Whoever coined this idea was a great humanist, but it's just not true. And I'm not talking about the value of human life, that is a different topic. I'm talking about the overall composition of a woman---her character, personality, values, and attitude. Same goes for men. I dont even want to get into the endless fvcking time-wasting argument of how people became this way--nature vs nurture--this is infinite fuel for banter and really does nothing but waste people's life.

You dont cast pearls before swine. A pig isnt going to recognize the value of a pearl any more than a douchebag is going to recognize the value of a quality woman. My yardstick for quality is going to be different than yours; and frankly I dont care what everyone else measures with.

 

[STR8UP]

These behaviors are are guaranteed to impact you repeatedly because you choose to live in the world of "Shades of grey".

That's the difference between you and me. I don't "choose" to live in any particular world; I acknowledge and am at peace with the world I live in, for better or worse.

 

[STR8UP]

"Quality" is real, make no mistake about it. The 'quality myth' argument has validity, however, because AFCs (and DJs) can use it to excuse their own lack of game and boundaries. If things went down the tubes with a particular woman he can just write her off with the 'low quality' excuse, which maybe she was, but it becomes a cop-out for maybe having poor judgment in the first place.

If someone believes (me) the quality woman and the ho are a "myth", then how is someone "writing her off as low quality" when things go bad? You and Jophil need to understand that this is no justification mechanism; it is an awareness that "one man's trash is another man's treasure", and vice versa.

You need to think this through before making this sort of claim. Who is the one justifying? It is the guy who believes he has a woman pegged from the get-go. He justifies his decision to accept (she's a good girl) or reject (she's a ho) up front, then when his "good" girl gets caught with her hand in the cookie jar it's "well she must have been a ho in good girl's clothing....but not to worry! There are plenty of other "good" women out there, and one day I will find one!"

I find it amusing that the one person I know who seems to have the best marriage knows exactly what I'm talking about here.

As much as there is often an attribute trade-off (i.e. looks for character), all women are NOT created equal, I'm sorry.

I don't remember ever making the claim that "all women are created equal". That's not what this is about. It's about acknowledging that you can't accurately label a woman one way or the other, because there is no such thing as entirely "good" or entirely "low quality", and most women float around the scale depending upon time and circumstances.

Take the whole point of this thread for example. Why is it that you tend to see that the more attractive women have less character? What would happen if that attractive woman started out an "ugly duckling" or if she was attractive all along and developed a skin condition that made her "ugly"? Don't think for one second that she would remain exactly the same person if her self esteem were boosted or lowered.

It's life fellas. Acknowledge it, embrace it, and get on with it.

You dont cast pearls before swine. A pig isnt going to recognize the value of a pearl any more than a douchebag is going to recognize the value of a quality woman. My yardstick for quality is going to be different than yours; and frankly I dont care what everyone else measures with.

So I'm a douchebag because I can't recognize a "quality" woman?

I wonder if this site would even exist if there were so many of these rare specimens lying around....

 

[Colossus]

Str8up that last post wasnt a personal attack. Apologies if it came off that way. I just think shades of grey can be dangerous.

We might disagree on a few fundamentals, but not the whole "quality woman" myth. This has sort of come down to semantics again.

 

[ketostix]

I believe that Quality is a continuum line. At one end you have the theoretical highest quality and the other you have lowest quality. Somewhere in the middle there's a fine line dividing quality from lacking quality. I think most females are near that line and a majority of them are in the lower quality side. I think the gray areas are on both sides of the dividing line. In other words, quality women vary in quality as do low quality girls. Another way of looking at it is a person of quality my do things that run the gamut in the quality side but they don't ever dip into low quality side. Whereas a low quality person actions would.

The thing is, I don't think hotter girls tend to be lower quality or have less character than less attractive ones.