The inverse relationship between looks and character

[Jitterbug]

The thing is, I don't think hotter girls tend to be lower quality or have less character than less attractive ones.

I know plenty of average-looking / fat chicks whose family and peers have been telling them BS all their lives about how wonderful they are and that they deserve a hell lot of stuff. Those girls have the same royal sense of entitlement as any Miss Universe wannabe hottie.

I have never met a modest Western woman (regardless of race/ethnicity). The vast majority have a very high opinion of themselves: they're all strong, intelligent, independent, ambitious, gorgeous, down to earth, outgoing and fabulous. Without modesty/humility, it's pretty damn tough to build a decent character.

 

[ketostix]

I know plenty of average-looking / fat chicks whose family and peers have been telling them BS all their lives about how wonderful they are and that they deserve a hell lot of stuff. Those girls have the same royal sense of entitlement as any Miss Universe wannabe hottie.

Totally agree. I was at the bar one night and overheard a conversation of two girls. The gist of it was the one was an UG and the other pretty hot and had a marriage ring on I think. The UG apparently was insecure over a guy or something. I kid you not, the hot girl kept telling the UG how she was so great and how ever guy is just lucky to get her, blah blah. It was the biggest ego-inflating talk I ever heard. I almost busted out laughing it was so pathetic.

I have never met a modest Western woman (regardless of race/ethnicity). The vast majority have a very high opinion of themselves: they're all strong, intelligent, independent, ambitious, gorgeous, down to earth, outgoing and fabulous. Without modesty/humility, it's pretty damn tough to build a decent character.

I don't know how many 6-8's or even lower I've seen that had a boatload of guys acting like they were super-models or perfect 10's. I wouldn't say 9+ are necessarily easier to get or less selective, but if anything I'd say they tend to be more modest and have more character than the less hot girls. It's like the less hot girls are compensating and have Ugly-girl syndrome, analagous to short-guy syndrome or something.

 

[Colossus]

The vast majority have a very high opinion of themselves: they're all strong, intelligent, independent, ambitious, gorgeous, down to earth, outgoing and fabulous. Without modesty/humility, it's pretty damn tough to build a decent character.

Modesty/humility is one of my main qualifiers. There is something charsmatic about a person who is really incredible but carries themselves with humility. Think Randy Couture from the UFC.

The last girl I dated was an ego-queen. It totally killed any interest I had in her. No one wants to hear someone constantly point out how great they are.

 

[Duffdog]

Assuming this is true, it goes back to my religion/heaven debate that you are NOT a good person if the only reason you are a good person is to get something out of it: such as to get into God's good graces to get into heaven.

So I feel kind of dirty accepting a woman's personality if I'm going to think she only has that personality as a survival mechanism and to get laid. At least good looks are genuine. So maybe the only acceptable women are those with both good looks and good personality because she has the personality despite a huge need for it.

Is this why that poster above said Rollo sounds cold? Because that's how I'm feeling about a lot of things lately because we all seem to be a bunch of biological messes trying our best to get the most out of our existence. We only do the things we do to get more out of the world.

Isn't the real "quality" woman going to be the one who is doing good just for the sake of doing good? Or the real quality man being the one doing right because it's RIGHT? How many people actually work that way? Even those who volunteer for soup kitchens aren't necessarily doing it for the sake of others but because they ENJOY the feelings they get from doing it and thus it still devolves down into a selfish act.

--

I also have a bit of a problem with the stuff above about "reverting back to afc when a man gets into a relationship." I thought not being afc was supposed to be a part of you and not just an act. So the problem isn't reverting back, it was faking it all that time just to get the woman to begin with.

Some would make the claim that everyone is fake and there is no "true person", rather a timeline consisting of different levels of fakeness designed to acquire the largest number of resources for oneself. I don't believe that altruism exists in any form-- I think that it would benefit many men to realize this before approaching a woman. Just think: "Every other guy is fake, so its my job to out-fake them to get the girl." This belief can be applied to many things, and it sure explains why hot girls don't actually think that their ugly friend is cute, they just say it out loud to make their friend stop crying. In short, her accepting your fake personality is the same as you accepting her fake personality because you both want the same thing: to be approved by your peers and feel good about yourselves. The fact that you were dishonest to accomplish that goal is irrelevant. Everyone is dishonest when nobody is looking-- honesty only comes about when people get inner satisfaction from performing the act, making it selfish. In essence, everything anyone can do is selfish-- so why not get the things you want in the process?

 

[STR8UP]

Is this why that poster above said Rollo sounds cold? Because that's how I'm feeling about a lot of things lately because we all seem to be a bunch of biological messes trying our best to get the most out of our existence. We only do the things we do to get more out of the world.

A lot of people choose to see the world through rose colored glasses. The words "faith" and "hope" come into play.

When you strip everything to its naked core it exposes a rather unpleasant scene of manipulation, dishonesty and yes, SELFISHNESS.

When you become conscious of the wizard behind the curtain, you can choose to deal with it in one of three ways.

The easy way out is to put the glasses on. Pretend that the thin veil that shrouds the dark inner core is actually reality.

On the other extreme, you can choose to be bitter and sulk in the injustice of it all.

The third way to see it is to acknowledge it for what it is, and live your life accordingly, using your knowledge of the "wizard" to be able to make a better life for yourself.

You have to understand that the majority of people, either out of ignorance or fear, choose to wear the glasses. They will fight to the bitter end to convince you that what you are seeing isn't an accurate representation of the world.

Don't get me wrong. There is a lot of "good" in the world, but you have to take it for what it is. If it isn't coming from your own flesh and blood family, there is always, ALWAYS more to it than meets the eye.

It is up to you to decide how you choose to view the world, now that you know the score.

 

[Drum&Bass]

I dont know what an HB 6- 10 is...I do know there are girls I would fuck and girls who I would fuck and dedicate more time and effort into than a typical girl.

I read somewhere on this forum that there is a baseline standard for attractiveness, and any women at this baseline and above is a woman that you dedicate more time and effort into. If she has poor personality and qualities, then you either walk away or keep her around as a FB.

So, to the original poster...what you consider a 6, someone else might consider a 10, and what you consider a 10 someone else might consider a 6. The point is, your attracted to both women, 1 of the 2 of them has issues maybe both of them have issues..maybe NONE of them have issues..so instead of using a useless number system and trying to justify to us your irrelevant way of judging women you could say...

Women (you are attracted to) are fucking crazy, but there are a few that make great companions..

and then you pretty much repeat what everyone on this site has been saying for years and the bottom line of this thread becomes redundant..

p.s. Stop watching TV and expecting women to "BLOW YOU AWAY" with their looks, if your looking for shock value your better off getting your thrills from extreme internet videos. There are 3 types of women in the world...Chicks you won't have sex with, chicks you will only have sex with and chicks who you have sex with but also enjoy talking to and hanging out with.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I heard this on Tom Leykis once, but I tend to agree with it; Women really should have two degrees of rating, physical and self-esteem (or character if you like).

The idea of a dual rating is first the physical (i.e. the HB scale), and the second for self-esteem, 1-10. Most super attractive women would register at about 8.5+ physical and around 3 to 5 on esteem. Thus the classic 'bimbo' might be a 9/3, where as the sterotypical 'professional' woman may be a 6/8. It's extreme imbalances that a guy needs to watch for. For instance the 9.5/2 might be psychotic or have BPD, but her physical presence and sexuality will get you trapped up in her life issues - a lot of strippers fit this bill. Neg hits on a girl like this is only pouring gasoline on a fire and will get you locked into a lifetime of drama and insanity.

Also, beware getting entangled with the 5/9.5 as this is the girl who thinks far too much of herself intellectually and is generally seen waving banners at the nearest feminism rally. This is the girl who'll constantly berate men for only being concerned with the physical and wants to change the world to better fit her inability to deal with it. Not that getting with an HB 5 is ever worth your time, but Neg hits on a girl like this only incense them that much more.

Ideally you'll want to look for a girl right around 8.5+/6 to 7.

 

[STR8UP]

Now if we are talking STRICTLY about self esteem and not "character" as a whole, i would agree that a lot of hot women have self esteem issues, despite the fact that they are good looking. Why do you think a hot woman likes a guy who isn't all about her looks? When you KNOW you're hot and MOST guys drool over you, the one who dismisses your looks knows your weakness and can exploit it.

 

[SoCalMike]

Everything you said is dead on.

The reason for this is hot girls get whatever they want even if they're b*tches. Therefore they never had a need to develop character, and are usually very selfish.

The solution is for men TO MAN UP and not tolerate this crap from hot women. Until that happens, this trend will continue.

The good news is there are women who are hot and have good personalities. They are of course, rare. These are the women who are "late bloomers". They didn't grow up looking good, so they had to develop character.

 

[Tazman]

Also, beware getting entangled with the 5/9.5 as this is the girl who thinks far too much of herself intellectually and is generally seen waving banners at the nearest feminism rally. This is the girl who'll constantly berate men for only being concerned with the physical and wants to change the world to better fit her inability to deal with it. Not that getting with an HB 5 is ever worth your time, but Neg hits on a girl like this only incense them that much more.

Wow, it's almost scary how accurately that describes this chick I know and felt she behaved that way for these exact reasons.

 

[Tazman]

Now if we are talking STRICTLY about self esteem and not "character" as a whole, i would agree that a lot of hot women have self esteem issues, despite the fact that they are good looking. Why do you think a hot woman likes a guy who isn't all about her looks? When you KNOW you're hot and MOST guys drool over you, the one who dismisses your looks knows your weakness and can exploit it.

I don't know that it's because he "dismisses" her looks, in fact I'm pretty sure she knows that that's what he's attracted to. I think it's more because the guy isn't hard pressed to be with her because he has options and it shows through his behavior (or he's good at faking it).

 

[TheHumanist]

From theory that if a women or anybody who is in a position of everything pander to you on a platter, then no effort would be made to cultivate any personality. Thus those with personality is developed only to for survival and get laid.

This leads to the idea of the inner dark core. Our actual reality under the veil is a dark core. There's still good, but much is not. We have three options, lie to ourselves, cry, or take advantage of it.

Everyone is there is fake. A mask made to better facilitate our aims. Ironically, the hot b!tchy girl is the most genuine.


I would like to make an argument to disagree. Though to be honest, to make an good argument, I have to attack the motivating factors of the original base that all the others in this discussion derived from: when you're hot and thus get everything you want, you will won't care about being a better person. I can't really make an argument against it.

I do dissent though. For to accept is what MrRuckus said, it does feel dirty. I can fathom that many women decided to act as such to get laid and for survival, but I refuse to start thinking that every or basically my friends or even daily interaction of the people around me is just being fake. Unless the person is b!tchy/*******, where we can be confident they are being genuine.

I can see that I myself were a mask of some form, but I don't think I'm just going around being fake, nor do the posters of this thread or sosuave. Due to that reasoning, I would like to think that since I'm not being fake, that others in their actions while can always be arguable there's other motivations, but the primary is still the primary. Like I pointed out the example before in another thread which I think is pretty good, Str8up, you are running a business. You admit to yourself that there have to be a subconscious motivation to bring more value to yourself to get more women, but you don't think that yours primary reason to start it and go through all that hardship do you?


I can however, offer a second theory that is equally plausible to the idea that a women with a personality. We can agree that for many people are drop with great amount of wealth, many would just squander it and end up right back to before. However, some developing the right mindset perhaps from being raised well or hardship, develop the skills on how to actually manage it.

For personality and character, I would like to offer a similar theory. For personality and character to have a chance to develop, we have to starve.

For character, how else can a person appreciate something until they are without it? How can a person start examining themselves and become introspective without something to put them in that mode. How can an epiphany arrive without thinking about the things that leads to it? It is said that people from large families seems to make up better people, at least my experience seems to go with it and it seems possible because they have to deal with people more.

We learn from experience, and how can we learn if we don't get experience. To be able to try and importantly, to be able to fail. To have a personality,it also takes experience to develop a personality. If we don't listen to music, how can we have a favorite song?

If we view from that point, to have a personality, it doesn't necessarily mean a fake mask created from the need to survive, but the fact that we need to learn it. And, if we learn from experience, we have to get experience, many times that comes from doing things, and many times, from not getting what we we want. We make us appreciate things better, it can help put more things in new and possibly better and more enlightening perspectives.

Doesn't disprove your theory of people, but hopefully show an equally valid alternative that doesn't have to state everyone is fake.

 

[Vulpine]

The good news is there are women who are hot and have good personalities. They are of course, rare. These are the women who are "late bloomers". They didn't grow up looking good, so they had to develop character.

They aren't rare at all. There are MANY hot women who have good personalities. They developed AWESOME personalities, but, not before they...























...had a kid.


I have a funny story to illustrate this. A plate of mine was yammering on about her friend she refers to as "Hot (chick's name)". Apparently, this chick is gorgeous, a real beauty who was a model at one point. Then she explains that this gorgeous woman is extremely intelligent. As I'm listening, I start anticipating the punchline. My plate then goes on to describe her personality as "not being into games", down-to-earth, grew up in the country, good values, etc., etc. I can hardly believe a woman like this exists, so I ask for more information. As the description continues to include the fact that the hot chick went back to school and is working on her PhD, I'm beginning to think she has a cleft lip, is wheelchair bound, or some other horrible affliction. Then, after rambling on and on about how great this chick was, at the very end, the very last description, the payload was delivered: "...and she's such a good mother!"



My imagined HB-o-meter's needle fell limp off the 9+ redline down until it rested on the pin at "0".

I couldn't help but to laugh out loud and make the sound from "The Price is Right" when a contestant loses one of the games... "DO-DUN-duh-DOO000oooooo......"

:crackup:

For personality and character, I would like to offer a similar theory. For personality and character to have a chance to develop, we have to starve.

Right, and when those smokin' hot chicks have a kid, suddenly all their looks are defeated by the kid in tow, so they can no longer afford to be outright b¡tches. They have to compensate for the kid as it is a huge deal-breaker. So, they "change their mask" to one that's more pleasant and demure.

They'll have the same good looks, but there was a specific catalyst that affected their character.

 

[SoCalMike]

Well you can continue to believe your peculiar version of relativism (and RTs)and worship your "perception is reality " philosophy if you so choose.
I look forward to many years of entertainment from your future sob stories about women who cheat on you, flake, lie to you and toy with your emotions. These behaviors are are guaranteed to impact you repeatedly because you choose to live in the world of "Shades of grey". What you really mean is they you will not label poor female behavior appropriately when you encounter it because you have weak boundaries to begin with.
This is the "relationships at any price" mentality.

Granted, labeling does not usually brings you any friends, but it does allow you to see who your enemies are likely to be.
You will continue to whine and baitch about woman who act poorly BUT now you can no longer call them "low quality" because you have joined the PC chorus of leftie sermonisers on this board who preach relativism and pragmatism as some lofty ideology.

Good luck.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jophil28 again.

 

[SoCalMike]

it is an awareness that "one man's trash is another man's treasure", and vice versa

So the druggie b*tch that cheats, lies, steals from her boyfriend and is hot is NOT lower quality than the hot woman who is faithful, intelligent, honest, etc. ?

I'm talking from personal experience here.

 

[SoCalMike]

The thing is, I don't think hotter girls tend to be lower quality or have less character than less attractive ones.

Get back to us on that when you've dated a few.

I GUARANTEE you they will give you way more grief than less hot ones.

I'm talking 7's vs 9's.

As others have already said, really ugly ones will give you grief too, but that's only because they're bitter and have major self-esteem issues.

We're comparing average/cute girls to the hot hot ones. That was what the OP stated.

 

[SoCalMike]

They aren't rare at all. There are MANY hot women who have good personalities. They developed AWESOME personalities, but, not before they...























...had a kid.

hahaaha... true true...

but there are hot girls who have "good" (tolerable) personalities EDIT: and no kids.

I work with a couple. I'm an Engineer, so are they. Nerdy when they were teens, hot now that they're mid/late 20's. One is married, the other engaged. These women go fast... they are rare, guys know it and so they marry them ASAP.

 

[SoCalMike]

I know plenty of average-looking / fat chicks whose family and peers have been telling them BS all their lives about how wonderful they are and that they deserve a hell lot of stuff. Those girls have the same royal sense of entitlement as any Miss Universe wannabe hottie.

I have never met a modest Western woman (regardless of race/ethnicity). The vast majority have a very high opinion of themselves: they're all strong, intelligent, independent, ambitious, gorgeous, down to earth, outgoing and fabulous. Without modesty/humility, it's pretty damn tough to build a decent character.

This is definitely a factor, but reality will not be fooled. These women know, even if only subconciously, that they are not as hot as the 9s/10s and they act accordingly. Even if being forced into "acting accordingly" takes time.

Either that, or they remain alone and frustrated, whereas the 9s/10s can still be b*tches and get laid constantly.

 

[SoCalMike]

I don't know how many 6-8's or even lower I've seen that had a boatload of guys acting like they were super-models or perfect 10's. I wouldn't say 9+ are necessarily easier to get or less selective, but if anything I'd say they tend to be more modest and have more character than the less hot girls. It's like the less hot girls are compensating and have Ugly-girl syndrome, analogous to short-guy syndrome or something.

I don't think so. Unless your idea of a 6-8 is an ugly girl.

Cute but not gorgeous girls (6-7range) can certainly have that behaviour, but it is not that common in my experience.

I wish we could dish out some real world examples here, because I have plenty. Unfortunately we all know different women so you wouldn't know who I'm talking about.

The best way I can put it is this: when you go to a place with lots of women, for example a popular mainstream club or a bar... look at the HOTTEST women there. Do they seem friendly and approachable? How are they acting? Generally speaking... do you get a vibe of them being stuck up little cVnts, or cool chicks you would like to hang with?

Now look at the less attractive (but still cute) women there... do they seem friendlier, more approachable? Look at their expressions, they way they carry themselves.

NOW TEST IT... I have many times. The hottest of the hot often will cop attitudes when you hit on them, as if you're a nuisance. Often they will not even acknowledge you talking to them,

Whereas the 6-7's will at least flirt back, smile, etc... most of the time.


I always hit on girls, admittedly I have a problem with this even when I'm with someone in a LTR. I have flirted/hit on literally HUNDREDS of women in my days... I know what's up with the hot ones... 9-10 range. Maybe 1 out of 5 you will get some play...

Give it a try... if your experience is different than mine, more power to you. But I doubt it will be. Unless you're a really really good looking guy. And even in those cases the hot women will still act entitled.

And dating them. Forget about it. I can honestly say I've dated about a half dozen truly HOT women.... they were way higher maintencance (i.e. flaky,selfish) than the 6-8's.

 

[ketostix]

I don't think so. Unless your idea of a 6-8 is an ugly girl.

Cute but not gorgeous girls (6-7range) can certainly have that behaviour, but it is not that common in my experience.

I wish we could dish out some real world examples here, because I have plenty. Unfortunately we all know different women so you wouldn't know who I'm talking about.

The best way I can put it is this: when you go to a place with lots of women, for example a popular mainstream club or a bar... look at the HOTTEST women there. Do they seem friendly and approachable? How are they acting? Generally speaking... do you get a vibe of them being stuck up little cVnts, or cool chicks you would like to hang with?

Now look at the less attractive (but still cute) women there... do they seem friendlier, more approachable? Look at their expressions, they way they carry themselves.

NOW TEST IT... I have many times. The hottest of the hot often will cop attitudes when you hit on them, as if you're a nuisance. Often they will not even acknowledge you talking to them,

Whereas the 6-7's will at least flirt back, smile, etc... most of the time.

Well my experience with the hottest girls in the club is their friends are more *****y than they are, most of the hot girls have a bf and they're not looking to get laid with some guy that approaches them. I never said hot girls were easier to get. I think you are proving my point about the 6-7's. They flirt with everyone and fvck around a lot.

I always hit on girls, admittedly I have a problem with this even when I'm with someone in a LTR. I have flirted/hit on literally HUNDREDS of women in my days... I know what's up with the hot ones... 9-10 range. Maybe 1 out of 5 you will get some play...

Again I Never said the 9-10's were easier to get, but how does that mean they have lower character? Being easier to get is character?

Give it a try... if your experience is different than mine, more power to you. But I doubt it will be. Unless you're a really really good looking guy. And even in those cases the hot women will still act entitled.

You assume I haven't approached lots of women.

And dating them. Forget about it. I can honestly say I've dated about a half dozen truly HOT women.... they were way higher maintencance (i.e. flaky,selfish) than the 6-8's.

I think the hot ones can be pickier, but I still say the 6-8 will give you as much or more grief. If and once you get a hotgirl attracted to you, I think it's a better position to be in then with a 6-8 who flirts with and accepts cack from a larger population of men. My point is a girl that is a 7-8 most of the time thinks she's 10 and is treated like one by a lot of guys.