The inverse relationship between looks and character

[TheHumanist]

Right, and when those smokin' hot chicks have a kid, suddenly all their looks are defeated by the kid in tow, so they can no longer afford to be outright b¡tches. They have to compensate for the kid as it is a huge deal-breaker. So, they "change their mask" to one that's more pleasant and demure.

They'll have the same good looks, but there was a specific catalyst that affected their character.

While that counts as experience, I'm not direction the building of character (or disproof) by experience of becoming a single mother. Compensation or putting on a mask or actually developing some personality and character. I like to think having a good personality and character does exist and it is genuine. Not just a fake mask where we actually in our core want to be complete *******s and B!tches all while not appreciating anything or acknowledging anything. Though, we still have to learn, we still have to starve, some will learn from it and become a better person. Others just learn how to act. Other still will just use shaming and other ways to get by.

 

[SoCalMike]

Again I Never said the 9-10's were easier to get, but how does that mean they have lower character? Being easier to get is character?

Not easier to get, easier to talk to. i.e. less attitude/stuck up

I think the hot ones can be pickier, but I still say the 6-8 will give you as much or more grief.

No way, not even close. But perhaps you've had different experiences, or perhaps you're just lying (more likely). Who knows, who cares.

If and once you get a hotgirl attracted to you, I think it's a better position to be in then with a 6-8 who flirts with and accepts cack from a larger population of men.

LOL, are you kidding me? A 6-8 gets more attention from men than a 9?
:crackup:

My point is a girl that is a 7-8 most of the time thinks she's 10 and is treated like one by a lot of guys

Ummm, no.

7-8's may THINK they are a 10, SOMETIMES (rarely) - but they DO NOT get treated like one by guys. Do you realize how silly that sounds?

At any rate, I can tell you are not a realistic person, nor have you had the experience you claim with hot girls. So there's no point in arguing about this. If you want to believe nonsense that's your deal bro.

 

[wjh]

I know what's up with the hot ones... 9-10 range. Maybe 1 out of 5 you will get some play...

Give it a try... if your experience is different than mine, more power to you. But I doubt it will be. Unless you're a really really good looking guy. And even in those cases the hot women will still act entitled.

And dating them. Forget about it. I can honestly say I've dated about a half dozen truly HOT women.... they were way higher maintencance (i.e. flaky,selfish) than the 6-8's.

I have mixed feelings about this.

I've dated hot women and have realized that the biggest problem with it has been my inability to handle them confidently while balancing my personal boundaries and being needy. In my past, I was ignorant of my personal boundaries and lacked the confidence to believe I was worthy of a hot girl. Hence my AFC past. Or, said another way, that a hot girl would never want me for the person I am. Self-improvement was never something I consciously thought about.

In my AFC days I used to think manipulation was the key to having success with women. While that's worked here and there, it will never bring me the sort of relationships with women that I want WITH the hottest women I want. It takes me bringing something to the table beyond trickery.

Part of my "recovery" over the years has been my hunger for understanding of how the male/female dynamic works. Rollo's posts have been huge learning tools for me. I couldn't thank him enough.

A significant factor of my "game" is the confidence that I gain from positive life experiences (not just from women). I look at what it is to be a man and spend my time and energy working on these pillars of masculinity. Strength, courage, hunting in a metaphoric sense, etc. I realize it's not only GREAT for my own well-being, but those pillars of masculinity are very attractive as well.

Ultimately, my handling of a scenario with a hot girl is not simply a function of what she is like, but how I can better refine my conversational skills, my image and how I present myself to the world, my humility, my sense of humor, and my intelligence before the approach. THAT will determine if the encounter, by my standards, will be succesful or not. And success by my standards is not determined by a #-close. Simply finding something out about a person, what they're like, can be ok with me. The reason I can say that confidently is because I know that any girl, hot or not, has the potential to be a ***** or a cold sack of potatos in bed. I've witnessed both on multiple occassions. A woman's sex appeal is not my only factor when picking up girls. Well, every once in a while I'll have too many beers and just wanna lay whatever is around... But that's the exception to the rule.

Put another way: Whether the majority of hot girls lack character or not isn't going to deter me from taking the steps I feel are necessary to be with hot women. If it takes 1,000 rejections to find 1 hot girl that has great character, I'm OK with that. It can take a while but I'm fairly patient when it comes to "quality" women (which I do believe exist).

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

The best way I can put it is this: when you go to a place with lots of women, for example a popular mainstream club or a bar... look at the HOTTEST women there. Do they seem friendly and approachable? How are they acting? Generally speaking... do you get a vibe of them being stuck up little cVnts, or cool chicks you would like to hang with?

NOW TEST IT... I have many times. The hottest of the hot often will cop attitudes when you hit on them, as if you're a nuisance. Often they will not even acknowledge you talking to them,..

There is a fine art in determining a woman with a b!tchshield from one who's actually a b!tch. Exceptionally attractive women use this as a filtering mechanism - and you know what I'm talking about, that suck-a-lemon face, that candor and attitude; it's a practiced art with the latent function of weeding out guys who lack the testosterone to approach her. 9 times out of 10 this is on-full when a woman is in a same sex social environment (i.e. out with the girls) because there's safety in numbers and mutual affirmation that encourages it. What you're being impressed with is her unapproachability, but how much of that is really intimidation on your part? At the risk of making this a looks thread, this is really social matching theory in action. Exceptionally attractive people will tend to prefer mates of an equal physical standard.

An HB7 is physically in no position to warrant the energy it would take to get past any b!tch shield she could devise. In other words, she can't afford to be a b!tch in an environment filled with HB8's and above. An HB 8.5 to 9.5 might be, but bear in mind that for the first few times, try to think of disarming her shield as a kind of psychological challenge. In most instances it's just a mental construct. Always weigh the reward against the price in resources it takes to achieve it. I say this because often the hottest women have had no motivation to develop themselves into exceptional lovers - which is really the catch; the all show and no go conundrum frustrates a lot of men. She looks like a porn star, but is really a dead lay.

Also, take care not to read to much into it or pat yourself on the back when you successful disarm a b!tch shield. More often than not the woman employing a shield does so because she's vetting the line up of potential mates in that environment.

 

[DonGorgon]

MOst people do only what they need to do based on their ability to get things form others which is determined by what they have to offer others...

i.e. people must like something about you to want to give you things.. they more they like about you the better!!!

MOst men want sex so sexually appealing woman have that to offer in situations where they want something from a man... If a woman is physically attractive enough she does not need to to develop a nice personality as she can get by just fine being a b!tch as long as she is a pretty b!tch...

Add to that a pervasive culture of superficiality in which people place very little value on non physical attributes and you see the situation..

A fat ugly woman automatically turns most men off especially the men most women find desirabel so she has to compensate for that by being a very very nice person... ON the inside she is usually bitter and wishes she was cute but life has dealt her an ugly hand of cards..

If a very pretty girl has good parents who teach her humility and virtue then she may become a person of good character anyway but most men will ignore her character no matter how great it is as long as she wears those tight pants to work...

I dated an HB10 who was so smart and such a nice person until she attained her nursing degree and a big salary.. then she metamorphisized into an unapologetic b!tch.. Money and success can change poeple but humbling events can change them back...

 

[Colossus]

Always weigh the reward against the price in resources it takes to achieve it. I say this because often the hottest women have had no motivation to develop themselves into exceptional lovers - which is really the catch; the all show and no go conundrum frustrates a lot of men. She looks like a porn star, but is really a dead lay.

Ah, the charming beauty with the sexual talent of a dead fish. I have dated a few of these. The problem is they have always had things done FOR them and never had to develop the sexual skills and enthusiasm that make a good lover. Guys are so thrilled just to be banging an 8.5 or 9.5 that they never really expect anything in return from her, just that she willingly lay there while they get their fvck on.

The 6's and 7's, conversely, HAVE to be good lovers. As a matter of fact most of the best lays Ive had were not all that hot--maybe a 7.5 at best. But if a girl is a 7 and she sucks in bed, she has little retaining power over men.

It's funny how appearances sometimes do tell the tale. I saw a girl on the subway today, maybe a 7.5-8, covered in tattoos. You know, the rockabilly betty-boop type chick. Cute, but ink on her chest, arms, neck...stuff like skulls and sailors.

I would bet a week's paycheck that that girl is bonkers. Crazy, probably a freak in bed, but would stab you given a reason. How do I know this? Have you ever known a SANE woman with that much ink? What would drive an otherwise really cute girl to tattoo skulls and sailors on her arms and get weird facial piercings. I'm no psychologist--but I'll go out on a limb and say it isnt a healthy motivation.

Who knows, maybe she volunteers at church every weekend. All I know is Ive dabbled with a few chicks like that---bad news, hombre. :nono:

 

[Duffdog]

Ah, the charming beauty with the sexual talent of a dead fish. I have dated a few of these. The problem is they have always had things done FOR them and never had to develop the sexual skills and enthusiasm that make a good lover. Guys are so thrilled just to be banging an 8.5 or 9.5 that they never really expect anything in return from her, just that she willingly lay there while they get their fvck on.

Now THAT I will agree with. I have actually had the experience of taking the "prize" home from the club and looking right into her eyes about 10 minutes into it and saying: "seriously, you SUCK and I have to go...bye" I then pus on my my clothes and ditcher her. Just being there really isn't enough for me--- I would rather pick some random 6 who was into it than even go near that useless chic again.

And no, I haven't known a sane woman with Ink all over her. But, I have slept with a tatted up girl and it was awesome, really. The fact that she was kind of crazy actually excited me, she seemed like she would be the perfect sidekick if I was going to rob a bank and shoot some cops.

 

[Andy_Dufresne]

I have actually had the experience of taking the "prize" home from the club and looking right into her eyes about 10 minutes into it and saying: "seriously, you SUCK and I have to go...bye" I then pus on my my clothes and ditcher her. Just being there really isn't enough for me--- I would rather pick some random 6 who was into it than even go near that useless chic again.

Put the shoe on the other foot. I'm sure everyone on the forum can relate - haven't we all picked up a hogga at some point in life...and kicked back and got some great oral...only to pull up your pants seconds afterward and high tail it outta there.

And don't think for a second the women don't get together and have the EXACT SAME discussion about men.

 

[Vulpine]

LOL, are you kidding me? A 6-8 gets more attention from men than a 9?
:crackup:

Actually, there is an angle there with 6-8's getting more attention than 9's.

(I opened a couple of sets that included a 9 with a question along these lines, and interesting conversations developed. This is according to women, so take it with a grain of salt.)

Apparently, at a certain point of super-hotness, typical guys see chicks as "impossible". So, they are essentially intimidated by the woman's beauty: "she's way out of my league".

So, guys don't generally hit on the mega-smokin' chicks as much as a DJ might think. Sure, we'd go up and rattle her cage, maybe make her feel some emotions, but an AFC? "There's no way I'd have a chance with that."

Super, super hot women actually appreciate approaches that don't suck. You know, something besides "Hey baby, you're hot, what's your number?" At least, that was what I was told.

It's like a "law of diminishing returns" with looks. At a certain point of beauty, the approaches drop off because the looks get to be intimidating. Mind you, confident men aren't the norm.

That's the angle, I don't know to what extent it is true, however. My experience leads me to believe that it is a sound theory.

 

[Colossus]

^^This is true enough. It's really just common sociology.

9's and 10's are intimidating to most guys. Even most girls, I dare say. The fear of rejection is that much more intense. If you get rejected by a 6, no big deal. She was a ho anyway, right?? But if you get rejected by a 9, ouch. It took you 15 minutes to get up the balls to approach her, and then she crushes your eggshell confidence with a haughty stare, sending you off into the glare of the club with your buddies where you talk of your amazing attempt at greatness.

7's and 8's get waaayyyy more approaches than a 9 or 10. The stunningly hot ones get plenty of attention, make no mistake. But it's a different kind of attention. Every guy wants to fvck her, yes, but they all try to be her friend. It's the classic AFC fallacy that you can sneak past her defenses and into her pants by becoming her friend first. Hot girls dont need friends.

 

[Duffdog]

Hot girls dont need friends.

I don't think that is accurate-- they don't want average people as friends. As a 9 or 10, you definitely would not want to associate with anyone in a lower social class than you, especially the average joe that has to "work up the courage" to come talk to you. I would go so far as to say that just knowing that this forum exists (or others like it) disqualifies you from ever being in her social class and therefore her friend. As much as it sounds mean, this site is designed for people who aren't naturals and have to try to get the girl. One could make the claim that there are thousands of men who try to get at the 9's and 10's every day and fail, thus, those women see right through it every time and no amount of practicing little tricks or variation in approach will change that. I hear very attractive women repeat the same stuff all the time: "There just aren't any good guys anymore"-- what they are really trying to say is: "All these average guys keep talking to me, what do I have to do to get the 6'4" right handed Doctor that makes 1.9M per year?!" In essence, they want the 'real' prize, not the guy who tries to be the prize. The other 99% of women would love it if they could at least get a confident guy to talk to them.

In that sense, I would agree that the top echelon of women have no reason to develop good character around average guys-- but I bet they become wonderful in the presence of their prize male and only their prize male. After all, why waste your time developing character around average joe's if all you want is for them to get out of your way so you can get to superman. Pretty much the same story as when you were in high school, the hot girls are mean to the losers, so they think she is a B$%ch, but the popular rich kids think she is a wonderful kind soul...because she is! Depending on what she can get from you.

 

[STR8UP]

Lets keep in mind here that the more attractive a woman is, the more options she has, but they aren't necessarily the options she wants.

The last poster said something about why she would "waste" her good character on average guys, and I think there is some truth to that.

No matter how hot the woman, she still has competition. And she still has to be the best she can be to attract the tall, handsome, rockstar plastic surgeon.

Basically what I am saying is that the idea that these women have no incentive to develop character only carries so much weight. Looks are a primary determinant of value in a woman, but 9's and 10's have other 9's and 10's as competition for the upper echelon of men, so all things being equal they DO have to cultivate a personality to get the man they truly want, otherwise they have to settle.

 

[Vulpine]

I don't think that is accurate-- they don't want average people as friends. As a 9 or 10, you definitely would not want to associate with anyone in a lower social class than you, especially the average joe that has to "work up the courage" to come talk to you. ...
...

... After all, why waste your time developing character around average joe's if all you want is for them to get out of your way so you can get to superman.

Lets keep in mind here that the more attractive a woman is, the more options she has, but they aren't necessarily the options she wants.

The last poster said something about why she would "waste" her good character on average guys, and I think there is some truth to that.

You can "direct your character towards a specific group of people"?
You can run out of character if you use too much of it?
You can "mold your character to cater to a desired class"?

Character is the mental and moral properties distinctive to an individual. Character isn't a blob of goo you shape like clay and throw at people to get them to quit blocking your view of the TV.

(...those are "boogers")

It looks like you guys have reached a point where you are now justifying hot women having poor character. So, I take it you guys are in agreement that super-hot chicks do, indeed, have lousy character?

Discrimination, or being mean versus kind depending on perceived social class or looks, isn't genuine kindness.

It isn't humble, it isn't grounded, it isn't positive, it's poor character.

If you have to decide who to "be nice" to, you're a superficial phony, a fraud, an actor.

 

[TheHumanist]

You can "direct your character towards a specific group of people"?
You can run out of character if you use too much of it?
You can "mold your character to cater to a desired class"?

Character is the mental and moral properties distinctive to an individual. Character isn't a blob of goo you shape like clay and throw at people to get them to quit blocking your view of the TV.

(...those are "boogers")

It looks like you guys have reached a point where you are now justifying hot women having poor character. So, I take it you guys are in agreement that super-hot chicks do, indeed, have lousy character?

Discrimination, or being mean versus kind depending on perceived social class or looks, isn't genuine kindness.

It isn't humble, it isn't grounded, it isn't positive, it's poor character.

If you have to decide who to "be nice" to, you're a superficial phony, a fraud, an actor.

I have to give my support for that. "Wasting" good character on average people? How is good character is been used up? Good Character is not how one act, it is how one is. Character is how does one treat a person who does nothing for him/her. Character is the actions will to take and not willing to take, willingness to be accountable to oneself. One example of good character is even things go wrong and end in a divorce, character is the difference between ending it quietly and fairly, the lack of it is willing to do everything possible to take everything he got, even using the kids to gain even more.

Being "extra nice" is not a reflection of character. It is one's best side, but it is only a side of them, not the whole thing. Many times it is not even a side, just an image.

 

[STR8UP]

Let me shed some light here.

What this means is that if she isn't attracted to you, chances are you won't get to SEE her character.

You don't interact with a fat, fugly chick the same way you do one you are attracted to, same goes for women.

 

[Vulpine]

Let me shed some light here.

What this means is that if she isn't attracted to you, chances are you won't get to SEE her character.

You don't interact with a fat, fugly chick the same way you do one you are attracted to, same goes for women.

Oh, I'll see her character alright, and chances are it's poor.

Let's say a fatty comes up to ME. How I respond to her is going to be a display of my character. If I am a d¡ckhead to the chick, I'm demonstrating that I have poor character. Whereas, if I am respectful or cordial to the chick, I am demonstrating that I have good character. There is no cause to be evil to a person whose intentions are not malicious. Do I tell the fatties and fuglies, "P¡ss off you fat, ugly cünt"? No, I tell them I'm not interested.

There is no double-standard for women in regards to character. If a guy strolls up to chat with a 9, you are saying that it's acceptable and justified for her to tell the guy: "Get lost, creep." That's a demonstration of character, the guy got to see that she is rude, disrespectful, and arrogant. THAT'S PART OF HER CHARACTER.

You make it sound like "character" was what was in the briefcase in Pulp Fiction. "Hey baby, wanna come back to my place and see my character?"

Again, a person's character is the sum of their moral, mental attributes. So, if a woman is a b¡tch to strangers, that's part of her character, and it's poor.

If a normally kind, gentle, man raped someone because he was lonely and wanted to get laid, what you are attempting to claim is that whoever he raped didn't get to see his character? No, dude, he's a rapist. That's his character. That's part of what/who he is. If a woman is a b¡tch to guys who approach her, that's part of who she is, that's her character. This isn't a matter of "I'll take the character behind door number two, please" or "I've been saving this character for a special occasion". You are who you are.

A b¡tch is a b¡tch, (b¡tch). So, if I'm poor or rich, I still talk in the exact same pitch.

Consider the scene in Pulp Fiction where "The Wolf" is explaining "respect shows character" to Rachel outside of "Monster Joe's Truck and Tow". In that context, "The Wolf" is speaking in terms of having "character" (having positive attributes) and not having "character" (having negative attributes).

Rachel: "I have character!"
The Wolf: "Just because you are a character doesn't mean you have character."

That scene was pretty cool. Vincent and Jules demonstrate respect, and The Wolf rewards them with a compliment. So gracious!

 

[SoCalMike]

Actually, there is an angle there with 6-8's getting more attention than 9's.

(I opened a couple of sets that included a 9 with a question along these lines, and interesting conversations developed. This is according to women, so take it with a grain of salt.)

Apparently, at a certain point of super-hotness, typical guys see chicks as "impossible". So, they are essentially intimidated by the woman's beauty: "she's way out of my league".

So, guys don't generally hit on the mega-smokin' chicks as much as a DJ might think. Sure, we'd go up and rattle her cage, maybe make her feel some emotions, but an AFC? "There's no way I'd have a chance with that."

Super, super hot women actually appreciate approaches that don't suck. You know, something besides "Hey baby, you're hot, what's your number?" At least, that was what I was told.

It's like a "law of diminishing returns" with looks. At a certain point of beauty, the approaches drop off because the looks get to be intimidating. Mind you, confident men aren't the norm.

That's the angle, I don't know to what extent it is true, however. My experience leads me to believe that it is a sound theory.

I used to think that was possible too, but the older I get, and the more I observe the really really hot chicks, the more I realize it's not the case.

If that were true, why would super hot chicks still have stuck up attitudes? If no one were hitting on them, their attitude would have to change somewhat, right?

And observe the super hot chicks when you're in public, see how guys act around them. There is always at least one dude hittin on them.

Sorry, nice theory but I don't buy it.

 

[SoCalMike]

Let me shed some light here.

What this means is that if she isn't attracted to you, chances are you won't get to SEE her character.

You don't interact with a fat, fugly chick the same way you do one you are attracted to, same goes for women.

True, to a degree.

But there are many times when I'll just try friendly chit chat with a super hot chick, and all I get is attitude which is uncalled for. I mean, I understand dudes hit on them a lot, so they have to filter out a large number of unwanted advances.

But this is only excusable up to a degree.

I mean, a girl with a good personality should still be friendly and down to earth, regardless of how hot she is.

If a fat chick chit chats with me, I'll at least be friendly. I can tell the difference between hitting on me, and just being cool. And surely hot chicks know this too, they're just cvnts a lot of the time, plain and simple.

 

[SoCalMike]

Always weigh the reward against the price in resources it takes to achieve it. I say this because often the hottest women have had no motivation to develop themselves into exceptional lovers - which is really the catch; the all show and no go conundrum frustrates a lot of men. She looks like a porn star, but is really a dead lay.

I *hate* that.

 

[SoCalMike]

Put the shoe on the other foot. I'm sure everyone on the forum can relate - haven't we all picked up a hogga at some point in life...and kicked back and got some great oral...only to pull up your pants seconds afterward and high tail it outta there.

And don't think for a second the women don't get together and have the EXACT SAME discussion about men.

That would be true if I were fat or ugly, but I'm not. Some girls are just bad lays, either because they're not comfortable with sex, or they're stuck up hot chicks who think your job is to please them. It's just another manifestation of their selfish cvnty attitude.