The Hot Guy Myth

[CornbreadFed]

Looks matter, but the issue is that we think women are hyper fixated on the Chad/Giga Chad look when women have different preferences other than a jawline and hunter eyes. Furthermore, they are hyper fixated on a particular type of girl that chases those types of guys. Men are more obsessed with the Chad look than women are IMHO. As long as you don't look like a slob and act like a bitter black pill incel or socially inept, you will find a woman that finds you attractive. No, you might not get every women or the bar/Miami girl sloot y'all keep obsessing, so open your eyes and escape the stupid Pill Echo chamber.

The vast majority of men I see out with women do not fit in the Giga Chad category whatsoever. However, I am sure y'all pill swallowers have some cope excuse for that, so I will leave it at that.

 

[p_1337]

While I believe being "objectively attractive" (i.e. relatively tall with pleasing facial aesthetics) and building a solid physical appearance (i.e. being physically fit and dressing well) will more often help you (most importantly helping to build your confidence)-- I don't think being perceived as "hot" is some kind of cheat code that's going to make every woman lust for you sight unseen. While women definitely appreciate a good-looking man, they just aren't wired the same way.

I've also personally heard from women + reading a large number of anecdotal evidence, that they will intentionally reject or not move forward if they think a man is too good looking. While it's all relative, their mindset typically falls into one or both of the reasons below:

- They think he will be far more likely to cheat (this appears to be the most prevalent reason).
- They see it as a power move / think he's "too good" for them and will essentially disqualify themselves.

In summary:
Good looks will increase your confidence and allow more women to be receptive to your advances / not think you're a creep from the jump.

For men, I strongly believe the closest thing to having "unlimited" sexual access (akin to the average woman) is via celebrity status-- and even famous men deal with a tremendous amount of female bs.

 

[Gamisch]

I agree with the OP. I've said it before ; being a hot guy (or the hottest version you can be) isn't a guarantee you'll attract women. Yes, over a 10 years timespan there most probably be a woman who throws herself at you. And you'll get some matches on OLD. But it wont be like floodgates opening up.

Personality is what matters much , much more. You'd be surprised to hear how many objectively goodlooking incels there are, with great careers. The gymcel is another logical phenomenon and example .


Being hot AND having the skill to close the gap puts a man in "feckboy territory " real quick. The trick is to actually be aware of your looks and act accordingly.

 

[Gamisch]

Looks matter, but the issue is that we think women are hyper fixated on the Chad/Giga Chad look when women have different preferences other than a jawline and hunter eyes. Furthermore, they are hyper fixated on a particular type of girl that chases those types of guys. Men are more obsessed with the Chad look than women are IMHO. As long as you don't look like a slob and act like a bitter black pill incel or socially inept, you will find a woman that finds you attractive. No, you might not get every women or the bar/Miami girl sloot y'all keep obsessing, so open your eyes and escape the stupid Pill Echo chamber.

The vast majority of men I see out with women do not fit in the Giga Chad category whatsoever. However, I am sure y'all pill swallowers have some cope excuse for that, so I will leave it at that.

Really important thing thats not highlighted enough imo. Pookie rayray is a type, but simultaneously there's this mysterious female type that doesn't even have a name yet!! But still it's the same type of woman we all want. Whether she's black, white Latina or Asian doesn't matter. It's the type who brought nothing but trouble to 101,1 % of men...

This is related to my date down thread. Some men will value something easily obtainable like a " hot azz" like it's worth daimond. Let's just say that most dudes will prefer a hot azz over a cool personality. While the former can be obtained in a matter of months , and the latter is MUCH harder to get and maintain.

I also agree with the statement that you don't have to look like Thor to get a decent woman .

 

[Gamisch]

Minor correction.

You will never be truly aware of your looks. Yes, you can look in the mirror, but you don't look with the female gaze. So any assessment of a 'hot' guy by a man is flawed from the beginning. You can be built like Adonis and feel like you look so much better than other men, but somehow women find someone attractive who rarely if ever sees a gym. You can have a more glorious mane of hair than Brad Pitt and you see bald guys walking away with attractive girls who don't pay attention to your hair flips.

Until you can see yourself from the female perspective, you cannot judge the 'hotness' of your looks.

Oke you do have a good point there. But the "female gaze " ,isn't that something that a man also starts to understand when he spent enough time around women?

Let me add this to my theory ; a man gotta be as hot as HE possibly can be at that particular moment in time. There will be many limitations to how hot one can be such as genetics, age ect, but what's within our control is how we maxxx it all out.

If a man did everything he could to look at his best, focus can be shifted more on inner work (personality ,character, addressing fears and destructive self beliefs).

Looking your best is just a matter of taking action. Personally I feel much better when I know I am looking at my best. Gives me mentally more room to show my personality, the looks are just lubrication.

 

[BadBoy89]

In general, personality attributes matter the least with seduction.

+1.

This should be the title of Sosuave.

One of my friends is a 6'4" male that is now married. Before getting married, he was actively seducing. He put up a triple digit notch count with verbal game that was average at best. Looks and status (former NCAA athlete) carried him.

+2

Another title of Sosuave.

One of the issues with Sosuave is alot of the advice relates to the 1950s. Not that a man shouldn't work on himself and improve, but its been said here many many times, and its what frustrating the incels, the black pill community, the red pill community, or whatever community there is.

In regards to sex and babies, the women choose men based on their genetic quality. The want their offspring to be Hercules with great cheekbones and great hair. In regards to security and protection, they want the man with the money and resources. It's called Dualistic Mating Strategy. It's been said over and over again.

 

[SW15]

At the end of the day it all matters. Women are attracted by a wide array of things and AMEN for that.

We agree on this. I've said that Game is a combination of looks, money, status, and personality. While I think looks are Number 1, the other factors can offset looks to some degree.

When I first started dating girls, it was a struggle. My 1st date to 2nd date conversion rate was probably 50%. Why? Because my seduction skills, flirting skills, socializing skills, and connecting with women skills were lacking. All those areas that are a part of personality weren't where they needed to be. Once I improved in those areas, I became more successful.

Your starting point wasn't too bad in converting first dates into second dates. Not everyone cares about getting second dates. Guys with a Thrill of the Hunt inclination who aren't motivated by relationships don't care as much about getting the 2nd date. Men who have a desire for some kind of extended relationship would care about getting second dates. The men who are seeking some type of extended relationship are not getting sex as frequently on first dates, in part because that is less of a goal for them.

Any guy interested in longevity would have liked 50% of first dates to convert to second dates, especially if reliant upon tech-based methods.

Now days I'm older. I'm in better shape than when I was younger, but my skin is showing some age and I'm uglier than I used to be. Yet dating has never been easier than it is now. My 1st date to 2nd date conversion rate these days is 95%.

So you are going to tell me that Looks is all that matters? If your personality is lacking, thats probably a true statement from your perspective. I've never been that guy that could just stand there and rely on his looks and girls approach on a regular basis. It happens but not often.

Going from 50% to 95% in getting 2nd dates is good if that metric matters. It could be your personality is the most effective part of your Game mixture.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

The vast majority of men are not HGs.

 

[jhonny9546]

Christ here we go

Yes if you are a 6 or below don't even bother

If you're hot don't even try, just stand in a corner and be timid

What do you mean?

 

[jhonny9546]

The trick is to actually be aware of your looks and act accordingly.

Minor correction.

You will never be truly aware of your looks. Yes, you can look in the mirror, but you don't look with the female gaze. So any assessment of a 'hot' guy by a man is flawed from the beginning. You can be built like Adonis and feel like you look so much better than other men, but somehow women find someone attractive who rarely if ever sees a gym. You can have a more glorious mane of hair than Brad Pitt and you see bald guys walking away with attractive girls who don't pay attention to your hair flips.

Until you can see yourself from the female perspective, you cannot judge the 'hotness' of your looks.

Good, very good points.
How to be aware of your look?
This would be the ultimate thing, to know who you are, where you would fit, and to increase your life wellbeing.
We have so many distorted view about ourselves, which make us lose the most precious thing we have in life: time.

 

[Millard Fillmore]

What do you mean?

I was just being sarcastic. You can be a hot guy and just stand around waiting for girls to approach, but it won't be frequent, and the women will vary in personality and looks. A lot of crazies and mids/uglies are more willing to throw themselves at a guy. Beautiful women just don't put themselves out there (exception: celebrity status).

Luckily women are pretty flexible when it comes to physical appearance. Most men would just rather hate on the Chad boogeyman than put in the daily work of being attractive all around.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Luckily women are pretty flexible when it comes to physical appearance. Most men would just rather hate on the Chad boogeyman than put in the daily work of being attractive all around.

Statement of the year right here!!

 

[jhonny9546]

For this reason I cannot stress enough to understand:

The trick is to actually be aware of your looks and act accordingly.

and

You will never be truly aware of your looks. Yes, you can look in the mirror, but you don't look with the female gaze. So any assessment of a 'hot' guy by a man is flawed from the beginning. You can be built like Adonis and feel like you look so much better than other men, but somehow women find someone attractive who rarely if ever sees a gym. You can have a more glorious mane of hair than Brad Pitt and you see bald guys walking away with attractive girls who don't pay attention to your hair flips.

Until you can see yourself from the female perspective, you cannot judge the 'hotness' of your looks.


How do we learn to do it?

 

[Gamisch]

Good, very good points.
How to be aware of your look?
This would be the ultimate thing, to know who you are, where you would fit, and to increase your life wellbeing.
We have so many distorted view about ourselves, which make us lose the most precious thing we have in life: time.

the obvious answer is the (physical)mirror.


The deeper answer is the mental mirror. The easy way is to simply be aware of what YOU would be able to look and use a celebrity for example.

See, we shyte on women and all that, but ever wondered how the blonde cute hb8 carries herself with the arrogant demeanor liie she is indeed an hb8? Because she looks in the mirror every 3 seconds, and she KNOWS she looks like..._fill in famous actress _ . A woman = a woman. All the clothes, make up, colognes ect are available for all of them. Same with us men. Famous actor has two legs and arms, one head and he must also work out to look in shape

As a man you can run the same game "copy paste game " as women do. If you are black for example , you may wanna use prime Tyrese as your example. If you are Latin perhaps that bad Bunny rapper. If you are white perhaps you use Brad or Thor or the older more sophisticated look like Russell Brand as your favorite example. Will you ever look just like them? No. But if you aim high,even your bad shot might hit higher than when you aim low.

See, it takes brutal honesty towards oneself. Most men use women's opinions to evaluate themselves, as in how much success do I get? The issue with this is that a somewhat insecure man can meet TWO women (on OLD) who are " unsure" about him, thus digging himself further and deeper into the abyss of insecurity and self doubt.

At some point you might be at your peak, but " that one Stacy "STILL doesn't like you. When that happens you should be so confident in your own qualities that any rejection leaves you unfazed, and you simply carry on fine tuning your body, mind, heart and soul.

Because you can be a smv10, if you feel like a smv5 then that's how people will treat you.

 

[Gamisch]

Good, very good points.
How to be aware of your look?
This would be the ultimate thing, to know who you are, where you would fit, and to increase your life wellbeing.
We have so many distorted view about ourselves, which make us lose the most precious thing we have in life: time.

Knowing who you are has little to do with your looks. Its connected ,but especially for men its is no end all be all solution or answer . See, a cute girl can go to the bar alone and at some point a man will approach her and make conversation. A man on the other hand ..you can be Thor, and still no woman will go any further than giving you a glance here and there.

How you look oftentimes is a reflection of how you feel ( about yourself). If you feel like you are worth it to put in work, you will.

See, most men feel like they are unworthy and only wanna improve themselves to get respected by a woman. E.g a man wont clean untill a woman comes over. So he says that HE is less important than HER. He can be a pig, but she must be treated like a queen. Wouldn't it be easier to move like a King, and yeah, when the time comes to automatically treat her like a queen and se if SHE can meet YOUR expectations???

 

[jhonny9546]

the obvious answer is the (physical)mirror.


The deeper answer is the mental mirror. The easy way is to simply be aware of what YOU would be able to look and use a celebrity for example.

See, we shyte on women and all that, but ever wondered how the blonde cute hb8 carries herself with the arrogant demeanor liie she is indeed an hb8? Because she looks in the mirror every 3 seconds, and she KNOWS she looks like..._fill in famous actress _ . A woman = a woman. All the clothes, make up, colognes ect are available for all of them. Same with us men. Famous actor has two legs and arms, one head and he must also work out to look in shape

As a man you can run the same game "copy paste game " as women do. If you are black for example , you may wanna use prime Tyrese as your example. If you are Latin perhaps that bad Bunny rapper. If you are white perhaps you use Brad or Thor or the older more sophisticated look like Russell Brand as your favorite example. Will you ever look just like them? No. But if you aim high,even your bad shot might hit higher than when you aim low.

See, it takes brutal honesty towards oneself. Most men use women's opinions to evaluate themselves, as in how much success do I get? The issue with this is that a somewhat insecure man can meet TWO women (on OLD) who are " unsure" about him, thus digging himself further and deeper into the abyss of insecurity and self doubt.

At some point you might be at your peak, but " that one Stacy "STILL doesn't like you. When that happens you should be so confident in your own qualities that any rejection leaves you unfazed, and you simply carry on fine tuning your body, mind, heart and soul.

Because you can be a smv10, if you feel like a smv5 then that's how people will treat you.

In this case, we should pick someone which resemblance to our phenotype and try to "copy" him.

Who do you admire for their fashion sense?

Before I retired, I dressed unobtrusively, as my job required blending in. I did date a few fashion models and accompanied them on photo shoots, where I would listen to the fashionistas talking passionately about fashion and style.
Good fashion style fits well and fits with who you are. We identify people with style not because we'd wear whatever they wear, but because their style fits them. We can take elements of other people's styles if we like them and if they fit with your character/personality as well. You can't just mimic someone else's style, you have to make your own style and own it, otherwise it looks like you, ahem, copied your style.

After I retired and became a stay-at-home-dad, I started wearing what I liked to wear, without caring what other people might think. I don't need to 'blend in' anymore, so I put my earrings back in and grew my beard. And I had to cover my light-sensitive damaged left eye with a patch, so I stuck out anywhere anyway.

View attachment 12499

Women compliment me often on my style, because it's congruent with who I am as a person, so everything fits together while still setting me apart at the same time. And that is actually how I am -- I'm part of the art community, but I feel mostly like an outsider or spectator. And I like that. I'm an Einzelgänger, I follow my own path, I'm not part of anything, so I can enter everywhere. My clothes reflect that. I'm a (combat) pragmatist and most items I wear or carry have multiple purposes, often practical without looking too tactical. I draw inspiration mostly from rock stars like Keith Richards and some elements from the Steampunk style.

Example is my leather waistcoat, which acts like a 'purse' which holds my phone, wallet and vaporiser. It's comfortable to wear in the heat and when it's cold it fits neatly under my coat. The tactical part is that the leather is also thick enough to stop a knife, but light enough not to inhibit movement.

View attachment 12500

Same goes for my leather 'steampunk' cuff with my Steinhart watch, which can also be used to deflect blades, opening opportunities for the dagger in my right hand.

View attachment 12501

Another thing about my style is that IDGAF about other people opinions about what I wear. While women compliment me with my style, most men wouldn't dress like me and/or think I look ridiculous.
And that is the difference between the male gaze and the female gaze:
Most men on this forum want to 'dress to impress' and don't like my outfit, because my clothes don't reflect a particular status or affluence which these men consider important to become attractive to the ladies. They take their stylistic cues from 'smooth seducers' like James Bond. Bespoke suits, some bling to show affluence, a gentleman who will turn into a beast in bed.
Women, on the other hand, think my outfits look stylish because they fit seamlessly with my personality. And they are attracted to me because my outfit reflect my IDGAF attitude, which is a trait they often fantasise about. Add in my kinky side and women know that I'm an animal in the bedroom. Some called me a 'dark gentleman'.
Both men and women look at the same person, but their sexual orientation decides whether I'm attractive or not. Only women (and some gay men) are attracted to me, but most straight men would consider my style to be unattractive.

Nice point. I think that picking up a style, and an idol its a good starting point.
Then you have to customize it for you.
Why the James Bond archetype is not good from your perspective?

Also, those two answers don't directly to the main question, "How can we really see who we are, where we would fit"


And by this I mean that if we are 6ft6 tall, we might want to enter basketball team instead of riding a motorcycle, or if we are 5ft4, we should not play basketball. This is an easy example of something we still do wrong in real life, with our behaviour.
How do we recognize that?

 

[NealIRC]

I used to go to a lot of parties with this girl. We went to this one party and she pointed out this guy that she thought was hot. She said that she thought he was hotter that Idris Elba. So I asked her if she could sleep with him right now would she do it? She said yes. My friend didn’t know that I knew that guy. When she went to go to the bathroom I went over to him and told him that my friend wants to do him. He said he was down. When she came out the bathroom and I told her she didn’t believe me at first. Then I started pointing her in his direction and he was looking over at us and gesturing her to come over to him. To make a long story short this hot guy wanted to do her and she didn’t do him. She was talking all this stuff and she didn’t have sex with him.

How did she 1st meet this guy crush, at this party? She seen him interact before?

 

[jhonny9546]

From my perspective it would attract a kind of woman I do not want to attract.


I don't know what you look like and your passions.

You see what I look like and my passion is artistic / creative. My style is congruent with my personality. If you think in archetypes, I'm an 'Artist'.

Most guys here want to be a suave seducer like James Bond, so their style should be 'Gentleman', i.e. bespoke suits, a Rolex Submariner, smooth but aloof personality, pursuing trophy women.

How do you differ as artist archetype? It would be interesting to know an artist "outfit" example

 

[NealIRC]

@BeExcellent look who's lookin good ^

 

[NealIRC]

How did she 1st meet this guy crush, at this party? She seen him interact before?

Ok, I looked into why OP did not answer my q... This thread is 11 years old, and OP is banned...

I can confirm this is so real.
There is an ugly men I know that after 10 min about He enters the room, every girl is laughing at everything He is saying, even the worse quote. Women would laugh and also validate him saying this such as "You have chosen a wrong career path: You should be a comedian". Btw, one thing I've noticed is that He rarely do big laugh or normal laughing.
What is the real psicology about this? This guy is not so actractive, but it also may could be that he is ugly to womens eyes.
Does he have some sort of skill that allow a sort of HALO effect on him?
You won't trust me if I say that women will need to pee when they are with him because can't stop laughing?

And @BackInTheGame78 didn't catch that this 1 bumped this thread and so @Dr.Suave

Back to what I intended to say.

I used to go to a lot of parties with this girl. We went to this one party and she pointed out this guy that she thought was hot. She said that she thought he was hotter that Idris Elba. So I asked her if she could sleep with him right now would she do it? She said yes. My friend didn’t know that I knew that guy. When she went to go to the bathroom I went over to him and told him that my friend wants to do him. He said he was down. When she came out the bathroom and I told her she didn’t believe me at first. Then I started pointing her in his direction and he was looking over at us and gesturing her to come over to him. To make a long story short this hot guy wanted to do her and she didn’t do him. She was talking all this stuff and she didn’t have sex with him.

So seems there is a reason the girl no longer wanted to have sex with the guy. Is that from the guy being told she wants to, then he didn't chase her for the sex. So now the girl lost interest because he didn't chase/pursue her for it.

Boy I gotta collect more stories like this.