The dangers and potential destructiveness of anti-feminism

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Brainman

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I personally think the lot of you have grossly misinterpreted feminism. You are looking at it as though all feminists are man-hating control freaks. A feminist, in the broadest sense, is simply someone, male or female, who believes that women should be granted equal status with men. There are feminists that believe, like chauvinists, that their sex should be considered superior to the other. This category though, like religious fundamentalism, is only a small, radical percentage of the total. Most feminists I know want equal treatment in the world, equal representation in government and wish for women to be treated as more than a commodity.

I am a feminist and proud of it. It's just unfortunate that so many people have such a distorted view on what feminism is, at its core.

-BM
 

ketostix

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Ketostix, nowhere in this thread am I defending women or anyone.
Indirectly you are.

I am simply saying that many of the guys on this site have gotten so embroiled with "fighting feminism" that they've gotten somewhat obsessed.
I haven't noticed this. That's your perception. Perhaps you're biased?

When a man crosses that line he begins to behave exactly like a feminist. He looks for any hint of an opportunity to play the victim. It is NOT normal or natural for men to behave in that way. That is FEMININE behavior that is magnified by causes such as feminism.
Again this is your assertion, but I disagree. You're presupposing that men's complaints are as frivilous and baseless as those of feminist, aren't you? I believe feminist base their arguments in fallacies. Or are you claiming that these "men's" tactics are similar to feminsit. Well if they are so what it worked for the feminist to get the upperhand. Anyway, a lot of men have realized acting normal or natural didn't get them much. You can't chide men for not being what you consider "natural" when women aren't being natural themselves.


This thread isn't about discussing feminism...it's about discussing the way in which some of the guys here are responding to it.
Isn't that essentially the same thing?

You can't just go through live assuming and insisting that every woman you come into contact with must be a feminist. If you LOOK for some hint that she is you're going to find something. It's the same with racism and sexism. If someone wants to find something, if they look long enough, they're going to come up with some innocent remark or behavior to blow way out of proportion.
I don't think anyone is doing that. I think most guys have sense enough to know, even intuitively, whether any given woman is playing fair with him.

It's not healthy to do that.
Yeah, well a lot of things a guy is put through and required to do isn't healthy. I'm not sure exactly who's obsessing over feminism. All I've noticed is guys trying to find a solution to get what they want around the roadblocks chicks throw at them. My point is you make a general observation/assumption without pointing to any specific poster or thead, and I just don't see where what you're talking about exists. Maybe there'd be some merit to your advice if the problem actually exists?

Anyway, I just don't agree with much of what you post and you seem to run counter to the prevailing DJ opinion and it adds confusion. Well post whatever you want, and I need to not let you get under my skin. I just don't think you understand or appreciate what a lot of guys have to deal with regarding women. Later
 

Wyldfire

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Originally posted by Brainman
I personally think the lot of you have grossly misinterpreted feminism. You are looking at it as though all feminists are man-hating control freaks. A feminist, in the broadest sense, is simply someone, male or female, who believes that women should be granted equal status with men. There are feminists that believe, like chauvinists, that their sex should be considered superior to the other. This category though, like religious fundamentalism, is only a small, radical percentage of the total. Most feminists I know want equal treatment in the world, equal representation in government and wish for women to be treated as more than a commodity.

I am a feminist and proud of it. It's just unfortunate that so many people have such a distorted view on what feminism is, at its core.

-BM
Feminism BEGAN as the movement you believe it now to be. However, it is no longer about "equality". That was attained a long time ago. There is most definitely a very negative impact on men as a result of feminism gone terribly awry. Men DO suffer as a result. That's not saying that there aren't people out there that call themselves feminists who aren't actually humanists...there are. There is cause for concern about the way feminism affects men...and awareness is important...but the radical mentality from anti-feminist men is reminiscent of the likes of Valerie Solano(SCUM Manifesto) or Andrea Dworkin (who claims that all sex is rape). Let us not forget about the Swedish (I think it was Swedish) feminists who were hell bent on insisting that there should be a law to force men to sit down while urinating because the only reason they stood was to "intimidate women". There's a lot of ridiculous demands, ideas and agendas put forth by radical feminists. And again...the point of this thread is to try to help the guys here who are getting a bit radical to realize that in doing so, they sound just like the kooks on the other side.
 

Wyldfire

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ketostix...give even ONE example of how I am supposedly "defending women" in this thread.

The "tactics" feminists used to further their agenda only worked because it was WOMEN behaving like WOMEN.

When a man behaves as a woman he's not going to get the results he's looking for because no one respects men who behave like women. This is a very simple and elementary concept that should not only be easy to understand but should also be pure common sense.
 

ketostix

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Originally posted by Brainman
I personally think the lot of you have grossly misinterpreted feminism. You are looking at it as though all feminists are man-hating control freaks. A feminist, in the broadest sense, is simply someone, male or female, who believes that women should be granted equal status with men. There are feminists that believe, like chauvinists, that their sex should be considered superior to the other. This category though, like religious fundamentalism, is only a small, radical percentage of the total. Most feminists I know want equal treatment in the world, equal representation in government and wish for women to be treated as more than a commodity.

I am a feminist and proud of it. It's just unfortunate that so many people have such a distorted view on what feminism is, at its core.

-BM
The text book definition vs. the reality/real world definition of feminism has been debated to death here. A lot of guys are seeing that in reality and in practice it means preferential treatment and an unfair advantage for females..

A feminist, in the broadest sense, is simply someone, male or female, who believes that women should be granted equal status with men.
Well who wouldn't be for that, right? Not to get in a debate on the topic here, but define equal status. Equal can't mean identical for both sexes, think about. And just because statuses aren't identical doesn't mean they're not equal. Feminists presume things weren't equal before feminism,and other's see that things were generally already equal before it. It all depends on at what point you think it's equal and what you see as being equality.
 

Wyldfire

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Originally posted by ketostix
The text book definition vs. the reality/real world definition of feminism has been debated to death here. A lot of guys are seeing that in reality and in practice it means preferential treatment and an unfair advantage for females..



Well who wouldn't be for that, right? Not to get in a debate on the topic here, but define equal status. Equal can't mean identical for both sexes, think about. And just because statuses aren't identical doesn't mean they're not equal. Feminists presume things weren't equal before feminism,and other's see that things were generally already equal before it. It all depends on at what point you think it's equal and what you see as being equality.
No, it wasn't really equal. Women couldn't vote or own land and if their husbands died they ended up poverty stricken trying to raise their children quite frequently and employment opportunities weren't too plentiful. Those are all things that DID need to be addressed. However, it HAS grown to be an unfair advantage for women to the disadvantage of men...but even that is improving in a few areas. There's still a way to go to level things out again, but it has improved. More women are being arrested and convicted of DV and men are fairing better in family court than they used to.
 

DonJuanMonk

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When women don't have much female friends because they're too weird for them, they like to have a parade of men to belittle and talk down on so it fulfills their lonely pathetic ego.
 

Wyldfire

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Originally posted by DonJuanMonk
When women don't have much female friends because they're too weird for them, they like to have a parade of men to belittle and talk down on so it fulfills their lonely pathetic ego.
You're off topic. Please contribute to the conversation productively or leave.

Thanks in advance!
 

ketostix

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Originally posted by Wyldfire
ketostix...give even ONE example of how I am supposedly "defending women" in this thread.

The "tactics" feminists used to further their agenda only worked because it was WOMEN behaving like WOMEN.

When a man behaves as a woman he's not going to get the results he's looking for because no one respects men who behave like women. This is a very simple and elementary concept that should not only be easy to understand but should also be pure common sense.
Well this is stupid. I previously responded to everything your asking here again. You never stop, and you just keep repeating your claim, opinion or assumption of what you believe unnamed persons are doing. Gee, thanks Cap't Obvious, we already knew you can't complain about women to women and get anywhere. Any guy realizes you can rarely reason with a woman logically about her behavior. You're exemplifying that fact now. I just don't get where you're coming from with that "men acting like women". I mean if men think something isn't fair should they not point it out or complain at all to the powers at be lest they're "behaving like women".

Wyldfire, look even if what you were saying was happening on this forum, that's no proof that any guy is going out and complaining about women (or feminism) to women (according to you "behaving like women")and that's the cause of him not getting what he wants. I honestly try to get something out of your posts, and I respond to you thoughtfully but you just ignore everything that's said to you..so forget it.
 

escobar04

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I dont wanna go through the whole thread but just to let Wyldlife know:

I registered a "Women in American History" class this fall

unsurprisingly, I am one of the 3 male reps in that class

...anyways, back to you
 

Tboner

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Wyldfire,

Great post. I agree and hopefully it will help a few guys accept as reality, how women behave in modern western society.

Guys,

Don't b*tch about women's games, just learm to play them. Develop a tight game and you will get what you want.

So many people spend time focusing on the negative, pointing fingers and playing the victim card. I was like that for many years, and not completely happy. I realized that I can only change myself.

I see and hear people everyday going to extremes, trying to get me to feel sorry for them, by accepting their frame .....Anti-feminists/ feminists, racists/ equal opportunity cry babies, religious radicals/ anti-religious radicals, patriots/ revolutionaries, communists/ capitalists, Republicans/ Democrats, pro-lifers/ pro-choicers. The victim card is also played for alcoholism, drug addiction, child abuse, rape, murder, being unemployed, PMS, etc.

My time is too precious to waste debating these issues or validating them. While they spit out their pleas for my approval, I have the discipline to keep my mind focused on the positive. So, I usually interrupt, saying something like, "Wow, check out the rack on that hottie."
 

Wyldfire

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Originally posted by ketostix
Well this is stupid. I previously responded to everything your asking here again. You never stop, and you just keep repeating your claim, opinion or assumption of what you believe unnamed persons are doing. Gee, thanks Cap't Obvious, we already knew you can't complain about women to women and get anywhere. Any guy realizes you can rarely reason with a woman logically about her behavior. You're exemplifying that fact now. I just don't get where you're coming from with that "men acting like women". I mean if men think something isn't fair should they not point it out or complain at all to the powers at be lest they're "behaving like women".

Wyldfire, look even if what you were saying was happening on this forum, that's no proof that any guy is going out and complaining about women (or feminism) to women (according to you "behaving like women")and that's the cause of him not getting what he wants. I honestly try to get something out of your posts, and I respond to you thoughtfully but you just ignore everything that's said to you..so forget it.
Yes, it is stupid...you claimed that I am "defending women" in this thread and when I ask you to cite where I do that you can't answer. You can't answer because I am not defending anyone. Instead, you just parrot back the talking point about how "women aren't logical". The problem with that answer is that I AM logical. Sometimes you need to set aside the talking points and just deal with things head on without any preconceptions. Do you respond to any of the male poters here by parroting talking points or do you read and really think about what they have written?

Now onto the subject of the thread, which I don't think you quite understand mostly because you are too focused on the fact that I am a woman. Stop looking for hidden agendas and just read the words. That's why you're having such a hard time with me...you're too focused on looking for something that isn't there. And when you can't find anything you just spout off some talking point. You've got to stop that. There is NO hidden agenda...there is only genuine concern about the well being of those who post here.

Just as not all men fit into one mold, neither do women. You can't go through life operating on the assumption that all women and all of society is tainted by feminism...it's simply not so. If you make that assumption and are looking for a reason to believe that...you are always going to find one, even if you have to twist the facts around in your mind. If you want to think badly of someone or something it's really easy to find something to justify that...if you want to.

What we have here, on this site is a case of a few radically anti-feminists who hold a very unhealthy and self-destructive view of things...women and society mainly. These guys influence newbies who come here and the next thing you know, you have a few more guys behaving the same way. Then some more newbies show up and get pulled into it as well. Then all of a sudden there is a whole pack of angry, bitter, hyper-sensitive and negative posting disgruntled guys who are bringing the place down. The quality of threads have dropped significantly over time and there is no progress or growth as a group. The level of negativity HAS gotten terribly out of hand. One particular young man on this thread is contributing absolutely nothing of value to this discussion. All he is doing is insulting me and trying to pick a fight. Is that what being a "DJ" is all about? Insulting, hating on and picking fights with people? No, it's not. There should be no room for that kind of nonsense here.

What happened to calling females "women, girls, chicks, etc?" Now about all you see is "hos, cvnts, biotches, slvts, etc". That's a sure sign that there's just too much hating going on. I would be equally disturbed if this were a site full of women who were referring to men in a similarly vile way. Now, it's one thing to talk about ONE female who actually has done something to warranted being called those things...that's not what I'm talking about. It's when these terms are used to refer too women in general. How is that any different from feminists grouping all men together as abusers, rapists or sexists? It's NOT any different...and that is what I'm talking about.
 

Wyldfire

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Originally posted by ( . )( . )
:rolleyes: The irony here is unreal.
Titboy, Please contribute to the discussion at hand in a productive manner or move along. You are off topic.

Thanks in advance!
 

Wyldfire

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Originally posted by escobar04
I dont wanna go through the whole thread but just to let Wyldlife know:

I registered a "Women in American History" class this fall

unsurprisingly, I am one of the 3 male reps in that class

...anyways, back to you
Personally, I think women's studies classes are a bad idea. I actually think separating important historical figures or authors based on their sex or skin color is doing a huge disservice to the education of young people. If you separate this stuff then it minimizes what the more mainstream students who don't take those separate classes learn.
 

escobar04

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Originally posted by Wyldfire
Personally, I think women's studies classes are a bad idea. I actually think separating important historical figures or authors based on their sex or skin color is doing a huge disservice to the education of young people. If you separate this stuff then it minimizes what the more mainstream students who don't take those separate classes learn.
oh, that was a mistake at first

I thought I registered a different course but when I found out it was too late since all the other classes are full so I was blessed by being in the class

my instructor is this "women are the shyt" typa ladies and I have ifferent opinions

so far so good
 

naoi deag se deag

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Originally posted by Wyldfire
Personally, I think women's studies classes are a bad idea. I actually think separating important historical figures or authors based on their sex or skin color is doing a huge disservice to the education of young people. If you separate this stuff then it minimizes what the more mainstream students who don't take those separate classes learn.
I used to think that too, till I realised that every class, if it's not about minority studies (including women's studies, though percentage-wise they're not a minority), is about white men. Despite going to a very liberal university, most of my classes deal with the thoughts of - surprise! - white men. If they don't have a separate category, there just won't be any mention. For me, women's studies classes are invaluable. Most of the people I know at this university have experience with women's studies and none of them have suffered the almost requisite backlash against it that I've noticed here.
 

Wyldfire

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Originally posted by escobar04
oh, that was a mistake at first

I thought I registered a different course but when I found out it was too late since all the other classes are full so I was blessed by being in the class

my instructor is this "women are the shyt" typa ladies and I have ifferent opinions

so far so good

LMAO...better bring some tums and Valium to class...hehehehe
 

Wyldfire

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Originally posted by naoi deag se deag
I used to think that too, till I realised that every class, if it's not about minority studies (including women's studies, though percentage-wise they're not a minority), is about white men. Despite going to a very liberal university, most of my classes deal with the thoughts of - surprise! - white men. If they don't have a separate category, there just won't be any mention. For me, women's studies classes are invaluable. Most of the people I know at this university have experience with women's studies and none of them have suffered the almost requisite backlash against it that I've noticed here.
Oh, they definitely need to include a broader range of material, that's a given. The problem with separating things is that it means everyone ends up missing out on something. Especially with literature, I think there should be a two semester course that covers all the women and minorities material too. The same could be done with History.
 

Joe The Homophobe

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Originally posted by escobar04

I registered a "Women in American History" class this fall

unsurprisingly, I am one of the 3 male reps in that class

...anyways, back to you
I also thought about taking a class about women's history in college

not to learn about women's history, but because it would be an easy place to meet chicks ;)

Now that I think about it I would probably fail it due to sleeping in class, and get kicked out because of snoring!
 

Wyldfire

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bump for the day crowd...
 
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