The counseling profession and their mindgames.

[zekko]

If HB came round to see you she had something to say,I am not sure she got that opportunity.An open ended question like what are these three other guys offering that I can't?why do most Ladies settle for one guy and you need four?what are the four qualities in the perfect relationship?what can we do to improve things?......seems we have learned very little about what is going on in this mixed up Womans Head Space

I very much agree with this. I am stunned at how little communication is going on here. HB is too busy wallowing in her own misery to talk about what she wants, and Jophil is too focused on controlling the frame to even be interested in what she wants. What's the point of a relationship if you can't communicate with each other?

HB sounds like a lost cause, I hate to say. She is totally under the control of this Leanne person. Like Rollo says, it's like you're dating Leanne. I don't think I would want to be dating someone who is being controlled by someone else. Why can't she think for herself? If she's depressed, I would say she'd be better off just getting some anti-depressant meds instead of going through this useless, and potentially harmful, counseling.

The said thing is, if she met some guy who was willing and able to meet all four of her needs, she probably wouldn't be attracted to him. Women are a strange breed.

The guy told me the psychologist told her to start over and start dating him as friends. Almost the same as what was told to Jophils HB. Errie!!! No sex, ect...... and see where it leads.... Same idea but in different words

Needless to say he tried....... but she still was not satisfied. They are history.

What a surprise. What does counseling accomplish, other than break up relationships?

 

[ThunderMaverick]

Backybreaky-baby, Jophil never (based on what he's told us) had ANY dialog with the HB that even remotely resembled an argument. In the last 3 or 4 convos they had she would make her list of demands and he would say no -he walked away. He didn't try to bargain with her or coddle her feelings. He's been "STR8UP" with his actions.

I think Jo did the right thing by agreeing to be friends with her; It's absolutely NOT what she wanted. Her plan, through, Leanne, was to grab a hold of the frame again, like everyone else is saying. Now Jo can turn down his HB, saying he's "got a date to get to and can't really talk right now...bye!" That's going to drive her regrettable ass bonkers.

She dug her own grave.

 

[jophil28]

I very much agree with this. I am stunned at how little communication is going on here. HB is too busy wallowing in her own misery to talk about what she wants, and Jophil is too focused on controlling the frame to even be interested in what she wants. What's the point of a relationship if you can't communicate with each other?

ZEkko, If you read post #81 , you will notice that I brought up the subject of what is annoying her, and I also invite her to speak about it and even email me the details.

Similarly in post #99 I ask her again, this time coming from a slightly different angle, " What do you want from me in 25 words".
I both cases I was clearly requesting her to open up about her thoughts and feelings.

Perhaps you missed these?

 

[WaterTiger]

I think a little "reverse psycology" could have saved this relationship. You should have undercut Leanne's authority & power.

"Is Leanne a lesbian? No? Does she have a stable relationship of her own? No? then how can you take relationship advice from a woman who doesn't know how to run her own relationship?"

As for the "dating as friends" thing...You handled it just right! Let her sit on the side and watch you date a bevy of other beauties, make sure you introduce her as "just a friend". LJBF is a COLD chair to have to sit on!

Make sure you do "treat her as a friend". Call her once a week or so "to see how she's doing", go out for breakfast (because breakfast is so NOT SEXY) and invite her over to watch football with the guys. No kissing, no hugging. Treat her like one of the guys! Trust me...she'll HATE it!

 

[jophil28]

I think a little "reverse psycology" could have saved this relationship. You should have undercut Leanne's authority & power.

"Is Leanne a lesbian? No? Does she have a stable relationship of her own? No? then how can you take relationship advice from a woman who doesn't know how to run her own relationship?"

IF I had taken that approach I would be tacitly acknowledging Leanne's power and influence AND signaling my resentment of it. I would be declaring that Leanne was "getting to me" - In fact she is getting to me, and it is hells' own job to bite my lip NOT to rip into her when I talk to HB. However, I know that i will lose ground if I do that.
At this stage Leanne is acting as a combination of HB's best friend, sister, mother and priest. My being scathing about Leanne's advice would just shift the focus from the difficulties between HB and me onto the quality (doubtful or otherwise) of Leanne's 'counseling'.....it just opens up another skirmish for Leanne to exploit to further her own agenda...and it would offer HB another opportunity to avoid and delay speaking openly about her complaints.

I now believe that a relationship cannot succeed and hope to proceed to mutuality until the question of frame ownership is answered . HB (and Leanne) and I are in that skirmish right now.
That struggle is taking precedence over "communication" of her wants, needs, gripes and grievances.

However,I have invited HB to speak her mind with no response from her.
And so the games continue (or at least until Friday night when I have a date with another woman)

 

[backbreaker]

Backybreaky-baby, Jophil never (based on what he's told us) had ANY dialog with the HB that even remotely resembled an argument. In the last 3 or 4 convos they had she would make her list of demands and he would say no -he walked away. He didn't try to bargain with her or coddle her feelings. He's been "STR8UP" with his actions.

I think Jo did the right thing by agreeing to be friends with her; It's absolutely NOT what she wanted. Her plan, through, Leanne, was to grab a hold of the frame again, like everyone else is saying. Now Jo can turn down his HB, saying he's "got a date to get to and can't really talk right now...bye!" That's going to drive her regrettable ass bonkers.

She dug her own grave.

you miss the point.

at first, he shocked her by showing this **** isn't going to work. when she brought up the "i'm going to have 3 other men" comment, he said okay I 'm going to have 3 other women.

but all he's done sense, is play this game...

let's look at the facts

1. he isn't fuvcking her
2. she is not fvcking him
3. the thought of fvckign 3 other men has crossed her mind
4. he has stated he is going to do alot of things that he isn't doing
5. he is concerned about where these concerns are coming from and she wont' sit down and talk to them about them


the 48 laws of power are a wonderful thing. they never fail. I study them like a bible.

law 9 not does not say "do not argue". it says "WIN WITH YOUR ACTIONS, not with your arguements"

right now he's not acting on anything.

they are playing this dance, where she calls, he listens, and pretends to have something to do and leave.

personally I think jophil is better than this chick and can do better and he's short chanigng himself. but even if he does want to stay with her, it has to be under his set frame, not hers, and he's not ever going to get her in the right place doing what he's doing now.

this dribble about i'm going to call you, i'm not going to talk, i'm going to pretend i'm doing something else, is playing in what she wants.

I think jophil is drastically overthinking this situtation. just go **** someone else for crying out loud and let teh chips fall.

think about it... we have a 7 page thread on this chick, her doctor, and he is analysxing everything she's doing and you are telling me she's WINNING? PLEASE.

the only differnce right now with you not acting on anything and the AFC is the AFC is unawre while jophil clearly sees what is happening, yet neither is doing anythnig about it.

go get your ass laid my man. spin some plates, show her her actions have consequences. Not just empty threats. Reputation is everything, guard it with your life.

when I was 21 I met my first REAL GF, who we dated for about a year. when we first met, she would give me these tests. she had an EX of 6 years and she "still had feelings for him".. she would talk about how she doesn't think we are a good fit beucas eof this or that... and i would just agree with her and go fvck someone else. she would call me every name in the book, get pissed, i was a mean self centered *******. I did nothing but mirror everything she did. she went 'out with friends" i'd go out on a date. when she'd call me later that night i owuld be over a girls' house and she'd throw a fit. she went out with an ex, i'd go out with an a girl on date. basically everything she did, I did. she kept wanting me to commit but she wouldnt' commit. eventually she gave in and i had that girl wraped around my finger for our entire relationship.

you can't be afraid to break these women, I don't care how hot they are. you dont' go to a grown man and tell him you are thinking about dating 3 other men adn think there wont' be consequences. what kinda flicked **** is that? she jsut gave you a get some ***** free card.

and truth be told she'd respect you more if you did go fvck someone else as twisted as it sounds.

she jsut told you that she wants to go become an amature gangbang girl and you are sitting around waiting for her to call. that's what this all boils down to.



walking away and showing you have no qualms about finding a nother plate, is never the wrong decision.

 

[Solomon]

eeeh

Teacher(Jophil)

why haven't you "Nexted" her yet? It's obvious she can't think for herself (how old is she?)
Honestly I think deep down Mr. Jophil still likes her(if he didn't he woulda left a long time ago), are you trying to convert her into a booty call? or get back with her?

IMO this where it's time to say **** it and start spinning some plates(suprised Rollo hasn't said it)....

Just my thoughts

 

[Jitterbug]

I think jophil is just stringing her along for amusement now, to see how much he can toy with a nutty woman - something he failed at 3 years ago with the mastermindfvck BPD.

Also, she's been with him for a year, and I don't know how they met, but it's possible that she's in his social circle and it's not that straight forward to cut her loose.

My HPD ex is in my social circle and while mentally I nexted her very quickly, to avoid a messy social life & further lies & BS from her that could damage my rep, I put up the whole act of LJBF & sh!t for a while to slowly purge her out. In reality, I hooked up with another chick 3 days after the breakup (this was at the start of the year) and have had a lot of similar fun since.

backbreaker, I'm sure the above is covered by one of the 48 Laws of Power.

If you two read carefully, jophil is arranging a date this Friday with some other woman.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

This thread is turning into MNIN thread where he goes on and on about how he can't get get rid of his latest BP girl.

Is there some massive shortage of puzzy down in Australia? Do you live way out in the outback where you only see a girl once every three or four days?

Here's how it should have gone down:

Her: I'm seeing a therapist. I have issues with men.

You: Oh really? That's nice. Oh, BTW, my schedule is pretty full for the next seventeen years. Let me know how that therapy works out. See ya.

 

[Tazman]

I think everything is fine if you fully plan on continuing to date AND have sex with other women. She has to know this as well.

I also love that she continues to dodge your questions about what exactly is bothering her. You've got way more patience than me though because I would've already told her that I don't think I'm the right man for her and she should move on. Hopefully you are only dragging this out for the posters here and your own amusement.

 

[backbreaker]

I think jophil is just stringing her along for amusement now, to see how much he can toy with a nutty woman - something he failed at 3 years ago with the mastermindfvck BPD.

this is what AFC's do.

Men dont' string women along for their amusement to try to get back at some women that scorned him in the past.

this woman has her place in your life. put her in her place and if she doesn't want to be there, or acts up, goodbye.

not to be cliche or what's the word i'm looking for... i don't know.. but that's what pooks "be the prize" is all about.

you are simply better than this. you have stopped to her level, when you need to be stepping over her, laying down how it's going to be and fi it's not like this she needs to go.

Also, she's been with him for a year, and I don't know how they met, but it's possible that she's in his social circle and it's not that straight forward to cut her loose.

so? she told him she wanted to date 3 other guys! I dont' give a fvck if my mom introduced us.


lol, she took jophil out on a date, told him her intentions to date 3 other guys with him... ,he's still in the picture, not ****ing anyoen else.. AND HE'S PLAYING AROUND WITH HER?

LMAO.

 

[vitor]

Its a red flag that Jo's lady went to this shrink and then all of the sudden changed. Its like she is being brain washed. I think its the typical 20/30 something I am not happy with my life fix it. Bottom line is no shrink, amount of money or whatever can fix it. I imagine she is taking anti-d's and anxiety meds. That is just my gues..

Jitter, I do not think he is stringing her along. Every time they communicate he ask her to open up and tell her what is bothering her and she can not seem to put it into words. My thoughts are above that for whatever reason a-z she is unhappy and Leanna is assuming or pointing all fingers to Jo.

Just Curios JoPhil with out going into too much detail, what does she do for a living, does she have good friends, good family, job, cars, clothes etc?

 

[jophil28]

See below.

 

[jophil28]

This thread is turning into MNIN thread where he goes on and on about how he can't get get rid of his latest BP girl.

Is there some massive shortage of puzzy down in Australia? Do you live way out in the outback where you only see a girl once every three or four days?

Here's how it should have gone down:

Her: I'm seeing a therapist. I have issues with men.

You: Oh really? That's nice. Oh, BTW, my schedule is pretty full for the next seventeen years. Let me know how that therapy works out. See ya.

I am very fond of this woman. She has been an important part of my life for almost a year now. My relationship with her has indeed reached a bump in the road, and perhaps a fork in the same road.
Your comments are more suitable to offer a younger guy who has just discovered that the 'princess' that he met in a club two weeks ago was just a bar chick on a GNO who has "issues".

I wrote this thread as a running commentary on a real life drama.

You might also notice that not once have I asked for advice or 'help' , but of course that did not prevent a lot of you from offering it.. Thanks for the 'tough love' -even BB has offered some food for thought....All your comments have been noted.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear All,
Some one asked where Jophil met this babe.....Seems in her words,she was pulled onto the Dance floor a venue where Jo is King....Do you guys understand the Psyche of a Female Dancer?she can be the lousiest Dancer on Earth,but in the Arms of an expert leader like our Jo,she is Margot Fontayne.....for half an hour,she whirls around the floor,her mates all look at her in admiration,she is the centre of attraction as she pirouettes and glides...she may fumble and slip but our own Fred Astaire will correct for her and make it seem as though it was all part of the graceful scene..... the idyllic expression on a Womens face in such a situation is a pleasure to see...positively efulgent....For a glorious moment her leaden feet have been transmuted to Gold,the Alchemist?Our Jo....The mindset of such a Woman is that she is a brilliant Dancer if only she can get the right Man to lead her....Not right of course...Therein I believe lies Jophils power...As to Women in Australia,Tokyo I can assure you that a good dancer on the Gold Coast,will have Women dripping off him,so no crocodile tears...Frankly I can't see why one of our smartest DJ's fell for such a dim witted Doll as this.

 

[jophil28]

..for half an hour,she whirls around the floor,her mates all look at her in admiration,she is the centre of attraction as she pirouettes and glides...she may fumble and slip but our own Fred Astaire will correct for her and make it seem as though it was all part of the graceful scene..... the idyllic expression on a Womens face in such a situation is a pleasure to see...positively efulgent....For a glorious moment her leaden feet have been transmuted to Gold,the Alchemist?Our Jo....The mindset of such a Woman is that she is a brilliant Dancer if only she can get the right Man to lead her....Not right of course...

That is exactly how it is, especially in the advanced Latin/Ballroom scene.
I had a G/f once who described dancing as "foreplay".. Dance has a mystical sexual power.

 

[Tazman]

I am very fond of this woman. She has been an important part of my life for almost a year now. My relationship with her has indeed reached a bump in the road, and perhaps a fork in the same road.

Damn, I thought you were only toying with her, but after reading this I see you aren't really dragging this out, you're going to play the waiting game, which in and of itself spells defeat.

Please don't tell me you're going to now pander to her in order to avoid cutting her loose. True LJBFing means you move on to other women for sexual intimacy, not celibacy. Women will always come out on top if you give up sex. It's their ace in the hole.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Jophil,
So this Ditzy Sheilah has a mind theatre currently running four shows,three of them don't have a leading Man,she is going to have auditions this week for a blue Movie Sheikh,a Handy Andy for the Renovation show and a Philanthropist for the Travel and Money Show .....the Fourth one Oh that's Dancing with the Stars,don't have to interview for this,Gladys is if one thing loyal,she wouldn't let trusty old Jo down,although then again if John Travolta were to throw his hat in the Ring? .....But I would think with talent like her's she can have many more shows,MGM had better look out.

 

[Handcuffs]

Best of luck JoPhil!

 

[jonwon]

you miss the point.

at first, he shocked her by showing this **** isn't going to work. when she brought up the "i'm going to have 3 other men" comment, he said okay I 'm going to have 3 other women.

but all he's done sense, is play this game...

let's look at the facts

1. he isn't fuvcking her
2. she is not fvcking him
3. the thought of fvckign 3 other men has crossed her mind
4. he has stated he is going to do alot of things that he isn't doing
5. he is concerned about where these concerns are coming from and she wont' sit down and talk to them about them


the 48 laws of power are a wonderful thing. they never fail. I study them like a bible.

law 9 not does not say "do not argue". it says "WIN WITH YOUR ACTIONS, not with your arguements"

right now he's not acting on anything.

they are playing this dance, where she calls, he listens, and pretends to have something to do and leave.

personally I think jophil is better than this chick and can do better and he's short chanigng himself. but even if he does want to stay with her, it has to be under his set frame, not hers, and he's not ever going to get her in the right place doing what he's doing now.

this dribble about i'm going to call you, i'm not going to talk, i'm going to pretend i'm doing something else, is playing in what she wants.

I think jophil is drastically overthinking this situtation. just go **** someone else for crying out loud and let teh chips fall.

think about it... we have a 7 page thread on this chick, her doctor, and he is analysxing everything she's doing and you are telling me she's WINNING? PLEASE.

the only differnce right now with you not acting on anything and the AFC is the AFC is unawre while jophil clearly sees what is happening, yet neither is doing anythnig about it.

go get your ass laid my man. spin some plates, show her her actions have consequences. Not just empty threats. Reputation is everything, guard it with your life.

when I was 21 I met my first REAL GF, who we dated for about a year. when we first met, she would give me these tests. she had an EX of 6 years and she "still had feelings for him".. she would talk about how she doesn't think we are a good fit beucas eof this or that... and i would just agree with her and go fvck someone else. she would call me every name in the book, get pissed, i was a mean self centered *******. I did nothing but mirror everything she did. she went 'out with friends" i'd go out on a date. when she'd call me later that night i owuld be over a girls' house and she'd throw a fit. she went out with an ex, i'd go out with an a girl on date. basically everything she did, I did. she kept wanting me to commit but she wouldnt' commit. eventually she gave in and i had that girl wraped around my finger for our entire relationship.

you can't be afraid to break these women, I don't care how hot they are. you dont' go to a grown man and tell him you are thinking about dating 3 other men adn think there wont' be consequences. what kinda flicked **** is that? she jsut gave you a get some ***** free card.

and truth be told she'd respect you more if you did go fvck someone else as twisted as it sounds.

she jsut told you that she wants to go become an amature gangbang girl and you are sitting around waiting for her to call. that's what this all boils down to.



walking away and showing you have no qualms about finding a nother plate, is never the wrong decision.

I agree backbreaker.

For one thing this is going too far, shi* or get off the pot, so to say!

What has turned into a great excercise on how to show a women you aint going to take shi*, has turned into a Psychological bat and ball game.

This women is a lost cause, what ever qualitys this women had, should be meaningless the second she stated she wanted to be date 3 men.

I just want to hit the nail on the head here and put this into context.

She said she needed to date 3 other men, thats 3 other rampant coc*ks, ramming inside her and flooding her womb with sticky man juice - At the end of the day, what does she want to date 3 men for? Knitting lessons! If a women tells you she should be dating 3 other men, then makes it out your the one with issues because you dont agree with her and the shrink, there is only one conclusion to this situation.

Time and time again she has stood by what she said, has even had the cheek to tell you your the one with issues, further compounds it by throwing the so called proffessional into the relationship, adds extra sauce onto it, but stating you and her have relationship problems, but refuses to discuss them, instead it's just creating drama.

What a fuc*ing shi* place to be in.

This girl would be out of my life so fast her head would spin, I wouldn't care if she had a gem encrusted golder puss*.

I have no idea why your dragging this shi* on for, no offence but how is this DJ I have no clue, this is not a good example to be passing onto guys with little experiance at all.

As soon has she said "We should be friends" i would have said, "Goodbye"

Whilst your debating your pychological mind games, this women is most probably trawling through face book or some dating site and looking for the next coc* to service her, rather then debating some tactics, where it is clear she and her shrink are winning. This is a lost cause, the sooner you see it the better, even it it wasn't, this women has shown her colours and this aint marriage or dating material right here, not at all. Women create drama, thats a given, but not to this degree, this is blatent disrespect and your giving her a voice.

Replace her is the best option, this is far too much drama for one man to take. This is the sort of thing that can turn an alpha into an omega.

The only way to even salvage this, if you wanted to, but I cant see a reason to at all. Is to cut all contact with her period, and I mean zero contact. That friend shi* is just playing into her hands. If her interest is high enough she will be bashing your door down sooner or later, if its low, say goodbye, but at least you know - no more drama!

That's the real DJ way to do it. You need to gauge her true interest level, not debate some pycho babble.