The counseling profession and their mindgames.

[grinder]

What does she want?

 

[Zunder]

Jophil, you're an older guy on here like I am, and I notice you give a lot of seriously good advice, so I trust your judgement. But I can't help but wonder if you didn't pull the trigger just a bit fast here. She didn't say she was going to FOLLOW these mad instructions from her therapist, did she? I might have said something to the effect of stop seeing that quack or I'm out of here, but your way was definitely more dramatic. And like I said, I trust your judgement.

Were you seeing her exclusively then? If not, I'm not sure why it matters if she saw other men, unless you expect multiple women to be exclusive to YOU while you play the field, which would be very interesting also.

I think we have some therapists on this forum and I mean them no disrespect, but I have very little use for counseling. When I was getting close to my divorce, my wife wanted to try marriage counseling first, and I swear it made things worse. We actually tried two different counselers. The first one was a woman who basically sided with her on everything and tried to set up as her project how she could completely change me. The second took a more fair approach but it seemed like talking about everything did nothing but stir up the hornet's nest with no way to settle it. But in the end we did get divorced, and by that time it was okay with me anyway.

Fuk that Zekko. the mere fact she even entertained the idea was enough.

 

[Tictac]

Jophil

Ruthless and brilliant! As it should be. Many people (not just women) listen to aboslute rubbish and make it part of their lives without thought. Your girl was (is?) trying to do that. You would have none of it and that is good, for her and for you.

If you don't listen carefully to the things that people say, much of it can sound reasonable. If you do listen critically, you discover that much of what people say and beleive is crazy. When you respond to what they say, after thought, you are not being unreasonable but quite the opposite. But you destroy their illusions and that's dangerous. Without those illusions and being forced to look at the crap they just accept because it sounds good or is convenient to go with at the moment, many people disintegrate.

Socrates was (and will forever remain) right. The unexamined life is not worth living. Neither is listening to unfiltered crap packaged as 'psychlogy' or any other intellectual diddling.

If your woman is ready to see how going down these kids of roads without a critical thought of her own is a serious error, very well, you are ready to talk. If she needs to listen and act on stuff like this, you need to fugitize. You've positioned yourself for either.

Thanks for relating this here. It is a good example for us all.

Tictac

 

[WaterTiger]

I am not sure how or where you got the impression that I was unwilling to listen.
Perhaps you were assuming that she felt "unheard" by me so she talked to Leanne instead.

I think she FELT you were hard to talk to. (You might be the easiest guy in the world to talk to, but unless we FEEEEEEEEL it, we assume you're a brick wall.) Out here in cyber-land can only guess at what's going on in your relationship and your (ex?) girlfriend's mind.

I also think "Leanne" is NUTS! And should be reported to whatever governing body she is under. Telling a woman to get 4 boyfriends is highly dangerous on several levels. The potential for disease, as well as psychological drama is horrifying. (She's having trouble with ONE boyfriend...and the solution is get 3 MORE????? WTF!)

Keep us posted!

 

[zekko]

Easier to just blame the guy for everything, but keep it a secret from him .

Well yeah, if they have a valid gripe, and the guy addresses it, how are they supposed to be able to keep the victim mentality? Better to keep the guy in the dark than to risk some sort of resolution.

I still don't think that even Leanne meant to seriously suggest that HB get four different boyfriends. I think she was trying to make some sort of point about her needs, although what that point was is kind of vague. I still think that therapists and relationships do not go well together, especially when it's someone like Leanne, who appears to want to enable HB to feed into her own negativity and victim mentality.

 

[jophil28]

I think she FELT you were hard to talk to. (You might be the easiest guy in the world to talk to, but unless we FEEEEEEEEL it, we assume you're a brick wall.)

OH, those precious FEELINGS that woman value above all.

Not to be too dismissive here, WT, but how was I to also know what she is FEEEELING unless she tells me?
My crystal ball is in the shop, BTW.

 

[jophil28]

What does she want?

I have no idea because she has not TOLD me. I am therefore left to guess and speculate .
I have been bear-trapped once a long time ago by a woman who snivelled, sulked and pouted in an attempt to have me chase her with pleading questions about why she was unhappy. BY doing so back then so I did not make her any happier, all I achieved was a transfer of power from me to her and I further 'taught' her about how to have me jump through hoops.
That experience taught me to NEVER plead with women to reveal their grievances .

 

[Jitterbug]

Based on this thread, I asked a chick friend why a woman would need 4 guys. She told me she needs Daddy, Boyfriend, Gayfriend and a Straight Niceguyfriend (the last one for advices on dealing with her Boyfriend).

For some reason, she was offended when I said hey me too, I need 4 women:

- A woman who cooks & cleans for me.
- Girlfriend
- Girlfriend's hot lesbian friend - to go shopping with, obviously
- Girlfriend's hot sister - for advices on how to deal with her sister, of course

Bloody women, hard to figure them out, huh?

 

[jophil28]

It gets curiouser and curiouser.

HB just called, She had just seen Leanne a few hours ago.(session 4)

HB, Fluff talk ..how are you ..etc..

HB," I told Leanne that you said that you would be willing to leave our relationship. She said that she was not surprised.." ( I sense a noose being prepared)

Jophil," I am not surprised that she is not surprised."

HB, "Huh ? SHe said that there are four basic components that are essential to maintaining a successful relationship and that we only had one, and you are willing to remove that so there is nothing left if you do that."

Jophil," Hmmm. She sounds like she has the ability to reason somewhat."

HB. "Why do you hate her. You have not even met her.?"

Jophil," Has she told you that you need to openly reveal what your complaints are to me."

HB," Well, sort of. How do I know that you will listen."

Jophil," How do you know I won't ? It is your job to open up .It is not up to me to shuck you open like an oyster. Have you told her what is annoying you? "

HB, "Yes - mostly "

Jophil," Well write it all down and email me."

HB," You'll just delete it."

Jophil, " This is really dragging on and getting nowhere. I have had a birthday come and go since you called. "

HB, "You are impossible."

Jophil," I bet Leanne agrees with that, gotta go - talk later."

 

[boomerick]

Jophil- I lurk a lot and rarly post, but I have to say - well done with this! Next her. She obviously has deeper problems she's not dealing with. Instead, she's dumping garbage at your door. Life's too short and there are too many other women.

 

[Da Realist]

Funny: she attacks you for "not knowing" a lot about Leanne, but she doesn't get onto Leanne abut not knowing enough about you. She hasn't even offered for you to meet her. Are you sure she's not just talking to some dude who's running game on her?

Either way, she's getting childish and is playing games with you to see how much further you'll go. I would say just cut contact and keep moving. The more you try to get to the root of a problem, the stupider they act. When you stop caring, that's when they'll spill the beans. Just remember sometimes you win by not fighting at all.

 

[jonwon]

It gets curiouser and curiouser.

HB just called, She had just seen Leanne a few hours ago.(session 4)

HB, Fluff talk ..how are you ..etc..

HB," I told Leanne that you said that you would be willing leave our relationship. She said that she was not surprised.." ( I sense a noose being prepared)

Jophil," I am not surprised that she is not surprised."

HB, "Huh ? SHe said that there are four basic components that are essential to maintaining a successful relationship and that we only had one, and you are willing to remove that so there is nothing left if you do that."

Jophil," Hmmm. She sounds like she has the ability to reason somewhat."

HB. "Why do you hate her. You have not very met her.?"

Jophil," Has she told you that you need to openly reveal what your complaints are to me."

HB," Well, sort of. How do I know that you will listen."

Jophil," How do you know I won't ? It is your job to open up .It is not up to me to shuck you open like an oyster. Have you told her what is annoying you."
HB, "Yes - mostly "

Jophil," Well write it all down and email me."

HB," You'll just delete it."

Jophil, " This is really dragging on and getting nowhere. I have had a birthday come and go since you called. "

HB, "You are impossible."

Jophil," I bet Leanne agrees with that, gotta go - talk later."

There is no reasoning to this, it's just menstral emotional head games.


Personnally I think this has gone behond trying to debate, when it is clear your simply debating with a fruit nut.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I think "counseling" ought to be qualified a bit here. There are 'counselors' who help veterans returning from war with PTSD, there are 'counselors' who talk people out of suicide, and there are 'counselors' who listen to your marriage problems for $75 an hour. Big difference.

That said, and from what I can gather from your report here JOPHIL, women with the propensity to defer to a 3rd party psychotherapist are attempting to control the frame by proxy. Essentially she's expecting you to accept Leanne as the higher authority (higher than yourself, which is rightly angering you), who'll then hand the frame back to her if you accept her authority. She's like a hostage negotiator.

Leanne is her buffer, and she's upset that you wont recognize her as an authority. If it were anyone else I'd say just NEXT this woman, and you probably will at some point anyway, but I'd encourage you to string this along for as far as you can just in the interests of the guys here.

 

[Unbridled_Phoenix]

Yeah go see what's going on with this leanne wench. If she's the ugly man-looking type of feminist, no dice. But if she's hot, I'd proposition her right in her office and give these women all kinds of bs to talk about.

 

[catman]

Yes please go if only for the entertainment value!! I made the counseler cry on our last session? This alone made up (kinda)the 6 months i spent in the hot seat listening to why im a man and wouldnt back down to her modern day feminist bull sit.:box: The fricking counseler come to find out was divorced and shut her man off the sex and affection and couldnt understand why he filed for divorce? I told her why and i didnt do it in her tainted politically correct way either!!!!! You could unleash more than i did with your knowlege of women

 

[zekko]

HB," I told Leanne that you said that you would be willing leave our relationship. She said that she was not surprised.."

This is infuriating. This woman meddles in her client's relationship, knowing full well she might bring it to ruin (if indeed that isn't her objective). Hey, no biggie, it's not like it's her relationship, right?

women with the propensity to defer to a 3rd party psychotherapist are attempting to control the frame by proxy. Essentially she's expecting you to accept Leanne as the higher authority (higher than yourself, which is rightly angering you), who'll then hand the frame back to her if you accept her authority. She's like a hostage negotiator.

Leanne is her buffer, and she's upset that you wont recognize her as an authority.

So very true.

 

[Zunder]

Jophill28, mate we may not have got on in the past...nevertheless I think my following advice is sage......, I think you already know this relationship is doomed. Even if this current dilemma was somehow "patched up", what then? Next year it will be the palm reader , the year after that the Tarot Card reader, the Star Gazer....this women of yours has such low self esteem, such low confidence, that she will latch onto what one of these loonies says without any logical thought process, and attempt to immediately implement it as gospel in her own life.

It will probably just get worse the older she gets.

Get out now and proceed forthwith to bang all sorts of juicy Aussie gals....that is one good thing about Aussie - you do have some hot broads (Dawn Fraser excepted).

 

[ThunderMaverick]

The level of strength you display is nothing short of amazing. She's expecting you to interrogate her about her grievances which puts you in a compromising position. She wants you to WORK to make her content without her TELLING YOU outright what the problem is. It's the little things. I think it was Guru who said "How does an ant eat an elephant? Bite by bite."

Jo isn't having it. She defers to a third party because Jo isn't playing the coddling game. There are obviously issues in herself that can't be fixed by Jo or even this rogue therapist. He knows this.

I'm totally in the camp that thinks you should keep talking to her to see where it goes, if not for educational purposes. :cheer:

 

[Tictac]

I think "counseling" ought to be qualified a bit here. There are 'counselors' who help veterans returning from war with PTSD, there are 'counselors' who talk people out of suicide, and there are 'counselors' who listen to your marriage problems for $75 an hour. Big difference.

That said, and from what I can gather from your report here JOPHIL, women with the propensity to defer to a 3rd party psychotherapist are attempting to control the frame by proxy. Essentially she's expecting you to accept Leanne as the higher authority (higher than yourself, which is rightly angering you), who'll then hand the frame back to her if you accept her authority. She's like a hostage negotiator.

Leanne is her buffer, and she's upset that you wont recognize her as an authority. If it were anyone else I'd say just NEXT this woman, and you probably will at some point anyway, but I'd encourage you to string this along for as far as you can just in the interests of the guys here.

This is a perfect analysis. JoPhil already gets it. Rollo clarifies it for the rest of us.

A great thread. Thanks,
Tictac

 

[Tazman]

This is great educational material. The tactics she's using here are so crystal clear, it almost makes you feel sorry for her in a laughable way.