The counseling profession and their mindgames.

[Tazman]

"Jophil," So you will have vacancies for three other men."

HB, " Err, I guess. "

To those who said she never claimed she would go through with it, this quote to me says she did. Regardless if her actions would have actually played out the same way, she came out with this to put Jophil on edge.

Walking out was a beautiful move. Either your filter kicks her to the curb for good or she'll be eating out of the palm of your hand.

Would love updates to this.

 

[zekko]

HB, " Err, I guess. " just this would be enought for me to walk away...

I'm not at all convinced that going through with this is something she ever seriously considered. I think it's all one big hypothetical situation, and she brought it up not because she wanted to, but as a power grab, and a guilt trip to try get some concessions in behavior from Jophil.

Probably the therapist said something to her like: You have so many needs it would take four guys to fulfill them. Which is ridiculous, when you think about it. What woman has the luxury of having four different guys at her beck and call unless she is like an HB9 or something? But typical for a feminist to even suggest that one woman deserves four men to service her. If she ends up ruining her client's relationship, I imagine she will rationalize that as a good thing.

 

[squirrels]

Jophil, " Next time you talk to Leanne, thank her for giving me a great idea. I plan to find another three women to fulfil all my needs. I have alloted you the 'sex slave' position. Gotta run...."

Click.

When I thought about this, that's the first thing that came to mind. As soon as she said she needed three other men, I'd want three other women as well. :crackup:

On a more serious note, there's the possibility that she may run back to her shrink at this point, at which point her shrink may try to convince her that you're an ***hole for reacting the way you did and "she deserves better", etc, etc...what's your contingency for that? Toss her?

Women turn every damned thing into a psychological issue...they don't have enough REAL problems in their lives like men to, so they need to create drama for themselves.

 

[Tazman]

I'm not at all convinced that going through with this is something she ever seriously considered. I think it's all one big hypothetical situation, and she brought it up not because she wanted to, but as a power grab, and a guilt trip to try get some concessions in behavior from Jophil.

That's just it though, she "implied" this to get a rise out of him. It was definitely a grab for power, and it backfired beautifully. It's all about respect. If she wants to start playing these types of games she can do it with a guy who's going to put up with her BS.

Even if she never planned to go through with it, you have to set boundaries with women like they're children, and stick to your guns or they will run over you. It was childish and uncalled for, she deserves to have the carpet pulled from underneath her feet.

I mean think about all the shaming and grief we as men would get if the tables were turned and it was Jophil who came out and said that.

Talking about needing 3 other men is a direct attack, which deserves an equally direct counterattack.

Give em an inch........

 

[jophil28]

That's just it though, she "implied" this to get a rise out of him. It was definitely a grab for power, and it backfired beautifully. It's all about respect. If she wants to start playing these types of games she can do it with a guy who's going to put up with her BS.

Even if she never planned to go through with it, you have to set boundaries with women like they're children, and stick to your guns or they will run over you. It was childish and uncalled for, she deserves to have the carpet pulled from underneath her feet.

I mean think about all the shaming and grief we as men would get if the tables were turned and it was Jophil who came out and said that.

Talking about needing 3 other men is a direct attack, which deserves an equally direct counterattack.

Give em an inch........

Whether she planned to follow Leanne's suggestion or not matters little to me.
HB needs to be stung to teach her that collaboration with another woman to plot a power grab against the man in her life is intolerable.
I am willing to maintain my cold standoff indefinitely unless or until she weakens and admits that she fukked up. I want to hear genuine contrition.
I have advised many guys here to walk away from poor behavior by their women.
I am totally commited to acting in ways that are consistent with that advice now that I find myself in a spot of bother with HB.

BTW, she called me an hour ago...

HB, " You know that you are acting all weird about this. Leanne is a good person. She wants what's best for me."

Jophil, " OK, believe that if you wish."

HB. " And I do not want to be your 'sex slave' "

Jophil, " OK I will pull your application."

HB, (starts to sniffle ) " You are a bad man, you know. Why can't you be reasonable ?"

Jophil," Like what?"

HB, " I liked things the way that they were between us. There were just a few little things that bugged me."

Jophil," If they were little things, what prevented you from bringing them up ?"

HB, " Leanne understands me, why can't you just try?"

Jophil," I told you after we saw Gran Torino that I was going in training to become a 'grumpy old man' like Clint.. it's working well so far don't you think.

Jophil," Hmmm. maybe I will give this some thought. Right now I gotta go find three women to fulfill my every need PLUS i now have to find a new sex slave.. Gonna be busy. Talk to you later.."

Click.

Yeah, I know, you are starting to feel sorry for her - me too, but that is not a good enough reason to cave in.

 

[vitor]

I think she is too far gone. She has other issues and Leanna is somehow making it seem like her bad feeligns are all your fault. I think you are handling things perfectly.

Ask her if you had 3 other girlfriends including her would she be ok with it. She would say No im sure...

 

[jonwon]

Whether she planned to follow Leanne's suggestion or not matters little to me.
HB needs to be stung to teach her that collaboration with another woman to plot a power grab against the man in her life is intolerable.
I am willing to maintain my cold standoff indefinitely unless or until she weakens and admits that she fukked up. I want to hear genuine contrition.
I have advised many guys here to walk away from poor behavior by their women.
I am totally commited to acting in ways that are consistent with that advice now that I find myself in a spot of bother with HB.

BTW, she called me an hour ago...

HB, " You know that you are acting all weird about this. Leanne is a good person. She wants what's best for me."

Jophil, " OK, believe that if you wish."

HB. " And I do not want to be your 'sex slave' "

Jophil, " OK I will pull your application."

HB, (starts to sniffle ) " You are a bad man, you know. Why can't you be reasonable ?"

Jophil," Like what?"

HB, " I liked things the way that they were between us. There were just a few little things that bugged me."

Jophil," If they were little things, what prevented you from bringing them up ?"

HB, " Leanne understands me, why can't you just try?"

Jophil," I told you after we saw Gran Torino that I was going in training to become a 'grumpy old man' like Clint.. it's working well so far don't you think.

Jophil," Hmmm. maybe I will give this some thought. Right now I gotta go find three women to fulfill my every need PLUS i now have to find a new sex slave.. Gonna be busy. Talk to you later.."

Click.

Yeah, I know, you are starting to feel sorry for her - me too, but that is not a good enough reason to cave in.

Jophil," Hmmm. maybe I will give this some thought. Right now I got to go find three women to fulfil my every need PLUS I now have to find a new sex slave.. Gonne be busy. Talk to you later.."

Perfect, Totally perfect.

She is playing emotional blackmail games.
First she tosses in a bomb, to gauge your reaction, which, let's be honest that sort of discussion doesn't belong in any relationship - Yes I could take it has humour in the right context, but this wasn't it, it was a serious discussion, and not some random humour she was trying to spin.

So first she drops the "Ugh, I guess"

Second it is clear she is making no apology for the act, if anything she is defending her corner whilst tossing in some shaming language and guilt trick emotional mind-fuc*ary.

The thing is, there is little to nothing a guy can do at this stage.

If you bend to this stuff, your just giving her a free ticket to play these emotional head fuc* games with you further and setting yourself up for another whammy at the hands of the shrink.

I advocate finding a women who will fight the man’s corner, rather than start throwing spanners into the relationship and expecting the man to simply pick them up and whack himself over the head with one.

I feel somewhere this women had the potential to play these emotional mind games on you anyway, it just took a little push from an outside source, maybe in the past, EX BF have complied with it and bended to her frame and allowed their personal value to lower to award her, her fleeting egotistical emotional attention seeking drama.

I truly believe that a women’s actions in a lot of cases is derived from a feeling of attention seeking and in this situation I see that also, 100% - Women to me are nothing but emotional narcissistic attention seekers, they all do. But in this instance she crossed the line, for her to defend her position just makes the hole a little deeper.

I don’t mind women fishing for that attention, it is when they fish for it, to these extremes' when one can see the red flags popping up like and there are many here.

The purpose of these tactics is for you to question your position and where you stand in your initial judgement, she has probably been given advice to stand her ground, some psycho-babble about shifting the blame and to make you feel guilty, hence to award her power, in allowing her to compromise the relationship to the ideals of the shrink she is seeing.

I believe her actions are the product of her fishing for attention, she simply has the wrong resource to work from.

Your reaction to it, is all you can do, because the alternative is not to compromise but to hand your balls over to disrespect and to tolerate rude behaviour, that has been manufactured without warranty


And zekko your missing the point, I see where your coming from, but could you honestly sit at a table going for a meal with your girl and when she lays this bomb on you, you could act any different.

The womens actions in defending her position would do nothing but really pis* me off, I tend to keep my cool with women, but her actions are putting herself in a bigger hole, and she is the one who is trying to initiate contact, so it's not from a lack of interest, i believe it's simply from a lack of doing the correct thing and following bad advice. Best thing to do is show her, that advice is bad, by walking and letting her figure out where she fuc*ed up.

This women should stop nothing short of an apology.

 

[Solomon]

Chea

This is what I like to see(threads with solutions in real life), Jophill made a quick and decisive descision, he didn't run on the board asking for advice, he already knew what to do, personal stories like this one I enjoy reading because it's not just a bunch of theories...

Anyone who thinks he pulled the trigger quick, maybe so, but he is setting the frame(and he is doing an excellent job from reading his follow up posts! ) Ironically my current plate is a "marriage counslor" herself. The more time I'm spending with her the more BPD traits are showing up(she told me she loved me the other night, as I was pounding her lights out, this after three weeks of knowing her)

The biggest two tools we as men have against women like these is 1. Walking away and 2. Showing Indifference

Whenever I show Indifference to a female or situation, it drives them bat **** crazy. Especially if she likes you, why? because they don't know were they stand with you, this allows you to have her qualify herself to you and also puts you in positon to control the frame.

Controlling the Frame, with these women is very critical. You will get tested, and how you respond is what will make or break you. Jophill responded with the right moves. With women like these you don't have time for "theory" because timing is critical and "action" is important. Walking away showed that Jophill has options. Being the prize isn't something you can fake, if you are the prize showing these women that you are willing to walk away, or show Indifference to is key.

So yes Jophill being "harsh" or an a*****e is needed, women love drama, espeically these "counslors" and "thereapists" you would think that they would be sick of it,hell no. The plate I'm spinning goes home and watches shows like "Bevelry hills Housewives" and "Tough Love" crap shows like that. They gobble it up. I truly belive that women who are "counslors" and "psychologists" are women who love Drama, and shiit

and Squirrles hit the ****ing nail on the head

Women turn every damned thing into a psychological issue...they don't have enough REAL problems in their lives like men to, so they need to create drama for themselves.

Peace

 

[Da Realist]

Jo, you're doing the right thing. Your girl is basically a tool. If you think about it, she was insecure to begin with and has wanted someone strong in her life. Now she is stuck between Leanne and you to see which way to go. If you hold out longer, she'll run right back to you. Unfortunately, Leanne gets to pimp your girl. Think about it: Leanne blows things out of proportion, gets ole girl to keep coming back, gets paid, and probably blows it on some dude. The messed up thing is that as soon as your girl can't pay, Leanne will stop seeing her and leave her a broken, dependent mess.

And this isn't all theory either, but it's stuff I've seen and gone through myself. The best thing you can do is say "**** it," show them door, and line up something new if the walk through it.

 

[Veridin]

Women turn every damned thing into a psychological issue...they don't have enough REAL problems in their lives like men to, so they need to create drama for themselves.

I watched Bridget Jones 2 a few days ago. (Yes, I know....) She breaks up with her boyfriend Mark Darcy because he is too obsessed with putting things in order, in her opinion. "You fold your underwear! I can't be with a guy who folds his underwear!"

Later in the movie she ends up in a prison in Thailand, sharing a cell with about a dozen Thai women. She mentions breaking up with Mark, and it goes something like this:

Thai woman 1: "My boyfriend is the same, he beat me and force me take drugs."
Thai woman 2: "My boyfriend so nice, but then he steals my money and make me walk the street!"
Thai woman 1: "What did your boyfriend do, Bridget?"
Bridget Jones: "Well, he didn't stand up for me at this big lawyer dinner. And he folds his...."


All women should spend a little time in a prison in Thailand. Get some perspective on life.

 

[zekko]

HB, " Leanne understands me, why can't you just try?"

Translation: Leanne tells me everything I want to hear, why can't you?
Therapists, I swear. She will break up your relationship then pat herself on the back that she freed her client from the clutches of another evil sexist male.

Here's my concern at this point. I'm not sure you two are a very good match for a LTR. There's too much adversity going on. This seems more like a war than a healthy relationship. A good LTR shouldn't be like that, especially only one year in.

And zekko your missing the point, I see where your coming from, but could you honestly sit at a table going for a meal with your girl and when she lays this bomb on you, you could act any different.

I agree the HB's behavior was unacceptable. I just probably would have approached it differently. I would have preferred to lay out exactly what it was that was going on that I found unacceptable and then let the chips fall where they may. That way we both would have known where we stood. and it wouldn't have dragged out for days. Jophil's approach is more "gamesmanship" than direct, but this is a "game" forum after all.

I just think after seeing the girl for a year, they should be able to talk things out better. There are no lines of communication here. She is hiding stuff from him and telling her therapist instead, and he is basically breaking contact until he sees compliance. So the whole thing looks dysfunctional to me, no disrespect intended.

 

[jophil28]

I agree the HB's behavior was unacceptable. I just probably would have approached it differently. I would have preferred to lay out exactly what it was that was going on that I found unacceptable and then let the chips fall where they may. That way we both would have known where we stood. and it wouldn't have dragged out for days. Jophil's approach is more "gamesmanship" than direct, but this is a "game" forum after all.

Yeak Zek, I could have taken that approach, but you know something ? I just ran out of tolerance for women and their fukikin games.
I spent almost 12 months of my life back in 2006 trying to "lay it all out" with a woman who was as crazy as they come. Nothing ever worked with her for more that 24 hours - NO real progress , no resolution ..I realized a few things after spending a year or two on this board.

You can't negotiate with a woman who is not willing to negotiate....it just becomes a battle of wits and wills....
HB is still trying to bend and shape the outcome to suit herself with Leanne coaching her in the background.. Leanne has no personal stake in this, and is willing to see more damage done to further her own hateful feminist agenda.

Both of them picked the wrong guy to mess with.

 

[Veridin]

(she told me she loved me the other night, as I was pounding her lights out, this after three weeks of knowing her)

Been there. A girl telling me she loved me after a short time, that is. I told her she couldn't possibly know that, but we should keep seeing each other and see how it would turn out.

Yeah, she was flaky.

Controlling the Frame, with these women is very critical.

Yes, with feminists and flakes alike. Be firm, know your worth and what minimum amount of respect you are entitled to. Don't try to argue every point they bring up, cut through cobwebs of words with the sword of clarity. You won't play their game. You will have a conversation only when she agrees to act sober and come back to earth.

That flaky girl I was with, she would bounce off on all sorts of suspicions, accusations and theories, and I simply would not engage in a conversation about it. I would just say no. You have to learn to tell the difference between when a woman is serious, and when she is just trying to see what sticks or is just living out her inner emotional storm.

 

[Warrior74]

So the whole thing looks dysfunctional to me, no disrespect intended.

Completely off topic. But I've noticed that the relationships that tend to look "functional" are the ones that are in the process of producing an AFC or the ones in which the women are content to play their role.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Both of them picked the wrong guy to mess with.

No reason to get your ego involved, it's not like they singled you out as some enemy to their feminist agenda. Most people have no agenda other than to try get as much as they can out of life with as little pain and effort as possible.

Sure, most people are confused and have messed up strategies on how to do this, but they aren't choosing to "mess with you" as you put it.

While I agree that this girl should have been nexted, I think it could have done with a lot less drama and ego gratification.

Just respect her right to work out her own issues on her own, and leave her be.

You have NOTHING to gain from being with a girl who is being counseled in such a way, so just cut her loose, completely free and clear without the drama.

No need to for oneupsmanship or any of that bullshyt drama.

Next means Next. It doesn't mean pretend next, and then turn around to check and make sure she's still following you.

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

I just ran out of tolerance for women and their fukikin games.

Both of them picked the wrong guy to mess with.

Give 'em a helluva education.

 

[The Message Boy]

Jo, I don't know about this one. I love your posts and I know we butted heads in the past, but I think this was blown out of proportion. Hear me out.

Your girl is seeing a shrink. The job of the shrink is to get the person to TALK about problems, ANY PROBLEMS. So I guess because you are on the mind of the chick, she talks about you. The shrink's job is to be on the side of the chick and make the chick think she has her best interest in heart.

I think by the shrink saying that it will take four men to fulfill her every need, was to try to get the girl to realize that not just ONE PERSON can be her EVERYTHING. Which is so true, despite the fact that it came off that the shrink was trying to turn the girl out to be a *****. We don't know if those were the shrink's intentions EVEN IF she votes Democrat lol. I think the point the shrink was making was to NOT put so much pressure on ONE PERSON to fulfill every need.

I deal with women all the time and while this is about to go against "Sosuave mentality" you don't have to be ALPHA all the time, and actually somethings that would be categorized as AFC around here are actually HUMAN in real life.

Jo what I would have done, seeing as though you have had NO OTHER PROBLEMS with this chick, is just to have a conversation with her. Get closer to her on that level. IF you have her sexually around your thumb, she ain't going anywhere bud. When a girl is sexually attracted to you and it's HIGH, you CAN have some AFC tendacies just as long as they don't TRUMP your sexual attraction traits. See what I mean? There's NOTHING wrong with being an AFC in that sense, the problem is when you are an AFC FIRST and MAN SECOND. Women love men that HAPPEN TO ACT nice or AFC or sweet. Get me?

I think you overreacted and instead of coming off as STRONG (like you think you did), I think you came off as weak and insecure, which, however, might NOT be a bad thing because when a girl is sexually attracted to you and sees you as a close partner, she WANTS TO EVENTUALLY see a softer/weaker side of you that maybe only you show her. It shows you care. It also shows that this HURT you as well, as you began thinking that she could begin cheating on you.

I would talk this out with her, I would let her know that her shrink has a point HOWEVER, you will not tolerate her going out and talking to FOUR OTHER GUYS. IF she does that it's over (that's when you cut her off), IF she starts to entertain it or starts to LOOK like she's about to entertain it it's over.

But JUST BECAUSE a chick got advice from a shrink and TOLD YOU ABOUT IT, does NOT mean she's about to go out and cheat on you in this instance. However, IF SHE DOES, THEN you next her.

 

[Desert Fox]

lmao when she said "and i do not want to be your sex slave"

you should've been like, "so why am i talking to you again?" click

 

[Desert Fox]

Jo, I don't know about this one. I love your posts and I know we butted heads in the past, but I think this was blown out of proportion. Hear me out.

Your girl is seeing a shrink. The job of the shrink is to get the person to TALK about problems, ANY PROBLEMS. So I guess because you are on the mind of the chick, she talks about you. The shrink's job is to be on the side of the chick and make the chick think she has her best interest in heart.

I think by the shrink saying that it will take four men to fulfill her every need, was to try to get the girl to realize that not just ONE PERSON can be her EVERYTHING. Which is so true, despite the fact that it came off that the shrink was trying to turn the girl out to be a *****. We don't know if those were the shrink's intentions EVEN IF she votes Democrat lol. I think the point the shrink was making was to NOT put so much pressure on ONE PERSON to fulfill every need.

I deal with women all the time and while this is about to go against "Sosuave mentality" you don't have to be ALPHA all the time, and actually somethings that would be categorized as AFC around here are actually HUMAN in real life.

Jo what I would have done, seeing as though you have had NO OTHER PROBLEMS with this chick, is just to have a conversation with her. Get closer to her on that level. IF you have her sexually around your thumb, she ain't going anywhere bud. When a girl is sexually attracted to you and it's HIGH, you CAN have some AFC tendacies just as long as they don't TRUMP your sexual attraction traits. See what I mean? There's NOTHING wrong with being an AFC in that sense, the problem is when you are an AFC FIRST and MAN SECOND. Women love men that HAPPEN TO ACT nice or AFC or sweet. Get me?

I think you overreacted and instead of coming off as STRONG (like you think you did), I think you came off as weak and insecure, which, however, might NOT be a bad thing because when a girl is sexually attracted to you and sees you as a close partner, she WANTS TO EVENTUALLY see a softer/weaker side of you that maybe only you show her. It shows you care. It also shows that this HURT you as well, as you began thinking that she could begin cheating on you.

I would talk this out with her, I would let her know that her shrink has a point HOWEVER, you will not tolerate her going out and talking to FOUR OTHER GUYS. IF she does that it's over (that's when you cut her off), IF she starts to entertain it or starts to LOOK like she's about to entertain it it's over.

But JUST BECAUSE a chick got advice from a shrink and TOLD YOU ABOUT IT, does NOT mean she's about to go out and cheat on you in this instance. However, IF SHE DOES, THEN you next her.

This tool is either:

1) a dumbass
2) a woman
3) someone who likes getting emotionally azz raped by other people

Ignore him!

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

Yeah what the hell was that?