The Alpha Male Myth!

[Albion2]

There are people out there who use this pop-Darwinism as fodder for the fact that they obsessively compete with other guys. They think they are being the alpha male.

Let me ask you this, do you play sports with other guys? Do you want to win? This isn’t that “pop-Darwinism fodder” called competing with other guys?

You think girls aren’t out there watching a bunch of guys compete in a game? You think they aren’t watching to see who the winner is? If not you have a lot of learning to do.

I’ll hand you this task; ask a bunch of girls whom they believe the sexiest team sport professional athlete is and I guarantee that a majority will pick athletes from winning teams. Then do the same thing a year later and I bet a majority will change their opinion if their first choice is no longer a winner.

Why do you think advertisers use “winning” athletes to sell their products? Do you think it doesn’t increase their profits?

And come to think of it, even this post is a competition between you and the other users on this board to see who is right and who is wrong?

From Solomon79

Because of this, they pursue their goals without fear, knowing there's nothing to be worried about.

But not all people pursue their goals. Some are too afraid to jump into the unknown. For instance, how many people out there have the potential to advance in their jobs but don’t because they are to afraid of being fired to go into their bosses office and demand a promotion? Please, tell me you’ve never seen this.

This is what makes the difference between an Alpha (Whether it’s male or female) and all other people. Alpha-Males go for and succeed at what they set their minds to, be it through evil means or good means. All other males get what they want by relying on the alpha-males to do it for them. Perfect example… I have this friend who literally said to me, “I like hanging out with Stew (another friend) because he gets all the chicks. By hanging out with him I get all his table scraps.” Instead of being Alpha and getting all the chicks himself he allows an alpha to do it for him because that way he doesn’t have to make first contact risking being shot down and therefore settles for second best.

As for athletes, do you really think all people built to be a great athlete actually become a great athlete? I doubt it; I’d bet for every one professional athlete out there, there are 10 who could be better but don’t have the balls to go for it or don’t even realize their potential because of sheer fear.

Being an Alpha is all about fear. Whether it’s the fear of talking to a woman because she might reject you, the fear of demanding a raise because you might get fired, or the fear of jumping out of that plane because you might bounce, the less afraid you are the more Alpha you are. And in the end, women can tell.

-Al

 

[Solomon79]

Ah.

But there are many 'alphas' who are no good at basketball or soccer or baseball. That's why they conciously stay away from the arena which they know they are not suited for.

That's the crappy thing with high school, right? I mean I'm not from the US, but it's similar all over the world. Cultural conditioning comes into play here. Guys who don't like basketball or soccer, whatever, they are forced to play it, and become 'losers' at something they had no interest in to start with. Frankly, I don't give a s.hit what some stupid fricking cheerleader thinks about my substandard basketball skills. I really don't care.

If I really think, with all this alpha science bulls.hit, that sport represents a man's ability to survive, then I'd rather be single for the rest of my life. Just think, there are wars going on all over the world, because some guys are trying to prove the sizes of their ****s, and the equivalent of cheerleaders at home (their women, listening for the latest news, desperate to know that her man has slaughtered another man, instead of being killed himself).

I can't think about life in those terms, but I often do. My response: disgust with the world and how women are. And there's no way I'm ever going to give a s.hit about impressing some dumb cheerleading b.itch who I don't want to breed with anyway.

 

[icepick]

Next time I think of posting a thread like this, I am going to kick myself in the head...

I knew that half of y'all would either misunderstand, or call me a "playa' hatin' beta male".

Jesus f*cking Christ guys, women are too f*cking easy. We as men have a HUGE advantage over them. We are stronger, more capabale, more composed, more logical, etc.

We are everything that they arent. Why are we attracted to women? Quite simply, they are weaker then us. All of the 'attractive' traits are, to put it simply, symbolic of weakness. (Nice legs=frail; big tits=cumbersome; long hair=easy to grab in a fight, gets caught, blocks vision; small jaw=easier to break; short, smallness=not powerful; blah, blah, blah...)

I can't believe that everyone thinks that I am some twit complaining about not getting women! Holy sh*t, all you have to f*cking do is let your natural strengths as a man shine out, and you will get chicks. Strength is what attracts them to us, HOWEVER, being unafraid of your desire to GO FOR IT is PART of the attraction process. It shows strength, probably more then anything else.

So, I wanted to point that out, for those people who are so worried about being the alpha male, that they don't go for the chicks, and wait for the girls to go for them, and end up falling short in the end. I wanted to point out that GOING FOR IT, and being sexual, is MORE important. So much so, that they don't have to worry about all that alpha male stuff. (And in doing so, thier natural strengths will AUTOMATICALLY come out.)

But, instead, I get comments saying that I have learning to do, and that I am a jealous beta, and that I am a p*ssy.

OO-KAY!

Maybe it is immature for me to be complaining on some stupid internet mesaage board? Probably, but I am not a very mature person.

I guess this goes to show, that if you question the importance of anything, then you are OBVIOUSLY a guy who doesn't get chicks. And you are a hater. And you are jealous. And you are wrong. Etc.

Damn, and I thought Catholics were bad!

 

[Don Ronny]

hey icepick,

I totally agree with what you are saying. But dont you realize that "going for it" and alot of the other traits you describe are the epitome of Alpha behavior?

And yeah, this thread was kind of a waste of your time!

 

[Lothario]

I haven't read the entire thread since it's so god damn long, but being an Alpha Male in this modern day and age doesn't necessarily mean being physically strong. Having a greater mental prowess over the other guy is going to give you the edge. I don't claim to be an alpha male, in fact I think I'm far from it, but I do believe there are those that dominate over their male brethren and we refer to them as 'alpha males'. Now how they dominate may be a matter of debate, (diligent reading of the Don Juan Discussion Forum, a colt .45, a 12-inch c*ck) but they do dominate.

Additionally, some acecdotal evidence: So I dated a 10 recently, we had just 4 dates. It turns out she just used me for sex, but that's nothing to complain about. But anyway, we woke up one morning, had sex, then she started telling me how she herself believes in this whole 'alpha male' business. I had never put much thought into it but she started busting out observations about lions and what not. I wasn't sure what to make of it, maybe she was telling me something, but the point is, she believed it, and looked for it, and was attracted to it.

 

[iqqi]

icepicky, they are all using differnt definitions for alpha. maybe what you meant was macho steroid arsehole man?

 

[Julius_Caesar]

It seems to me that everybody, including me!, has got some crazy ideas about this thread. Well, what can you expect when the initial post gave us no CLEAR DEFINITIONS or guide-lines. Since icepick never gave any definition of what he was thinking, we naturally posted on what WE thought an alpha male is, but then he proceeded to argue with some people over their definitions, including me I think. I don't know where this thread went, but I think that it would be so much easier if you, icepick, just posted your theory/definition of alpha males. I have noticed that you are using this "Mr. ToughGuy" thing often, and since I, and it seems many others, don't think that Alpha Male = Mr. ToughGuy, I, and I am sure many others, would like to get the chance to clearly define what we think an alpha male is because it is more general than what some people are posting. Let's crush the alpha male = toughguy myth!

Vale

 

[DjDreamer]

Originally posted by icepick: We are everything that they arent. Why are we attracted to women? Quite simply, they are weaker then us. All of the 'attractive' traits are, to put it simply, symbolic of weakness. (Nice legs=frail; big tits=cumbersome; long hair=easy to grab in a fight, gets caught, blocks vision; small jaw=easier to break; short, smallness=not powerful; blah, blah, blah...)

I can't believe that everyone thinks that I am some twit complaining about not getting women! Holy sh*t, all you have to f*cking do is let your natural strengths as a man shine out, and you will get chicks. Strength is what attracts them to us, HOWEVER, being unafraid of your desire to GO FOR IT is PART of the attraction process. It shows strength, probably more then anything else.

True...

An alpha male can be defined as a guy that gets the job done because he shows little or no inhibitions. It's a guy that has fallen into the 'habit' of not expressing "what makes someone known as alpha".

But...

There will be plenty headache if we all wanted to be seen as the height of masculinity. Gyms would be full, guys would be screaming at eachother for minor traffic offences and steroids would be sold in bulk.

If someone shows total aggression with little intelligence, that person will be placed in the looney bin and if society is inhabited by impatient brutes the alpha of kindness won't be selected as president.

Everyone do not think the same...a person has strengths and weaknesses...alphaness is relative.

 

[JustDoItAlways]

Great thread. Some good discussion.

Does the King get women? Yes, he gets a queen / a former princess and has three or four mistresses on the side. The queen has a little plaything too but nobody talks about it.

Does the Shoemaker get women? Yes, his wife is a good woman who works hard at home and in raising their five kids. He's fooled around with the barmaid a few times as well.

Does the top Knight in the kingdom get women. Yes, he's got one primary, the daughter of a duke but he also has two or three other Ladies chasing after him.

Does the GraveDigger get women? Yes. But his wife is a little sickly as are his two children. No other woman in the kingdom will come near him. The other GraveDigger2 does not have a wife. He sometimes uses prostitutes.

Does famous Isaac Newton get women? He could, women throw themselves at his genius, but he's gay.

Substitute the current modern version of the above guys and you will see the same result.

 

[DjDreamer]

Are pretty women fascinated with ugly (in appearance and character) high status men? Yes...

 

[Ebach]

Trust me, the intelligent or nerdy types that you see on daily basis are usually not as intelligent as they think they are. They are haters. They need an ego boost so they hide behind the book thinking they're so smart and everyone around them is dumb. They think they're geniuses. Geniuses are not that many. But there are a lot of nerds who think they're smart. They think that if they can remember some equations from a textbook that they're intelligent. It's a cover up for inadequacy. They're naive and scared to recover from their naivity. Naivity recovery comes from experience. That's what an alpha male is. A man who has been through a lot of ****, knows the truth about people, their intentions, able to handle (not control) his emotions. No one can control their emotions but they can handle them without causing havoc in their bodies (anxiety, fear, etc.). It all comes from experience. Everything you want is in experience itself. Those who say something is weird don't have much of that because they haven't seen such "strange" things before. It's new to them. It's exciting. I'm not excited because I've done this **** long ago. I've been there, done that. Alpha male is not what you see on the outside. It's what's on the inside. Your beliefs, your thoughts, your state of mind, your motivation, determination, intelligence, knowledge, resources, everything combined together. That's alpha male; the guy who uses all of his "resources" at any one time to live his life. It's much bigger than some of you can imagine.

When I talk to some of you I think I'm talking to myself when I was about 6 or 7. That's how naive some of you are.

 

[Jvesti]

Hey guys I've been reading studies on testosterone. It's showing that plain and simply the higher test levels you have the more you are likely to be dominant, aggressive, ambitious compared to lower test counterparts.

They put a bunch of males in a room and the one with the highest test levels is the one that usually dominates the conversation and what happens in the room. AKA The Alpha Male

They measured fights and the one with the highest test levels almost always won. I am actually purchasing the book "Heroes, Rogues, and Lovers" by James Mcnabb which is at the forefront of testosterone research.

And I'm thinking even in that nerd group you were talking about. I'll bet you anything the nerd alpha has high levels relative to the group. That's why nerd alphas still ain't gettin laid cause compared to everyone else they are androgenous wimps.

Men in prison are oozing with testosterone and coincidently are flooded with women and have like 6 kids. Look at Richard Ramirez "The Night Stalker" which raped 44 women and killed 15 people. Women sent love letters to him by the thousands. He has facial features of the incredible hulk literally an oozing factory of test.

In studies of college frats those with the highest levels are rowdy and unruly. While those with the lowest are mild mannered and docile.

Leaders and CEO's have high levels. Although I haven't read studies on how their levels are compared to prisoners and athletes. I believe you can certainly hide this genetic prowess. But then burst forth showing it to the max. People take notice.

In fact it has been shown that gene's switch on and off based on environment. So we can deduce that our test levels raise high and low based on our environment. How much of a range we've got is limited to genetics. But bottom line is that You CAN change your levels. Get your ass in the gym, so you are in some kind of struggle to start with, get in competition, be in a constantly challenging environment. Your body doesn't thrive on this? Chances you don't have that high test potential your just not made for it. (Possibly could be that they are so low to begin with its gonna be tough diggin out of the hole that's another possibility)

It's like if a really hot women decided to get obese and do drugs. The genetic potential would still be in her genes but not registering with us. When we see them 200lbs with dark bags on their eyes.

There are things you can do to improve your levels but generally it is limited by genetics. Women are attracted to high testosterone as we are attracted to high estrogen. If you show great potential and show your testosterone to the fullest you are more likely get your genes onto the next generation. You show high potential for dominance in your genes which make sexy babies. Hell you can even have high levels but still suppress your natural instincts and mannerisms cause society beat it out of you in this feminized society. It's time to get in touch with your maleness.

It's not about power, wealth, fame, That's bull****. If you are a ***** women might WANT to USE you. But they don't want your DNA. Look at Andy **** for example; He is A list star, but girls don't wnat to tear his pants off because he obviousely doesn't have high test levels. Instead they are probably banging his muscled poolboy behind his back.

It is just that those with high test levels usually can reach fame, wealth, power by their aggressiveness, dominance. EX: Arnold Schwartzennager, Clint Eastwood, Ellison, Trump, Thomas Jefferson etc.

While a high test person might not get far. Like the classic working class alpha guy. This is just a person who's beliefs maybe aren't such to get him places in life. It's still sexy to females when they see the genetic potential in him.

On the other hand most white collar cubicle dwellers have the lowest. They might financially make more but they certainly aren't going any places even though they could. The ones that seek out jobs without challenge in them. Coincidential dudes like this. The fight club "Jack's" of our society. Aren't getting laid, aren't having children, have wives who **** sexy men and get them to take care of the baby. (Not referring to natural leaders, lawyers, ceo's, entrepreneurs, guys who cut through the white collar workplace and get to the top like no ones business)

But anyways there's plenty to talk about on this topic. It's interesting stuff.

 

[honeyshark]

Originally posted by icepick
I find that the "alpha male" stuff, is more of a PERSONALITY selector then a HOTNESS selector.

I like this idea.

Many opinions on this board reflect the notion that there exists a gradient of coolness/ability/alpha-ness. The higher on the scale, the better you can pull. Reality is a bit more complicated. Since many ppl here seem to be expert biologists ; ) how about niches and niche protection? How about groups of individuals working together in order to better compete against loners?

Originally posted by Brian
I used to like the whole Alpha Male parallel until I read Abraham Maslow's "The Higher Reaches of Human Nature."

In it he talks about observing groups of monkeys and finding that while the Alpha Males were busy defending their position as Alpha Males the lesser Beta Males were nabbing all the female monkeys behind their back!

The Alpha Males were getting laid, sure. But so were the Beta Males... and they didn't have to work so hard.

This sounds like an example of reality colliding with our culturally constructed beliefs on what an alpha male should be like and what should happen. Everyone should feel free to ignore it and choose instead to adopt pop science when it fits our preconceived notions. ; )

Peace.

 

[Kineti[C]harm]

Being alpha isn't all about physique, if you think so you have misunderstod....

Girls have said that the main factor of an alphamale is that he looks like he's getting some, others have said other things. It's attitude, confidence, bodylanguage, physique and more.


Being an alphamale is probably the most effective thing for picking up women.

 

[Jvesti]

You guys are totally missing the boat.

It isn't that girls are attracted to alpha males they are attracted to HIGH Testosterone.

High testosterone is usually synonomous with a great body but not always. We are limited by our genetics even in muscle mass. But there certain is some coorelation in most cases.

The Higher the testosterone the more dominant thus the more likely you are to be an alpha in any social group.

We like high estrogen, they like high testosterone that's how this male/female thing works.

get it got it good

 

[honeyshark]

Originally posted by Jvesti
...

It isn't that girls are attracted to alpha males they are attracted to HIGH Testosterone.

The Higher the testosterone the more dominant thus the more likely you are to be an alpha in any social group.

We like high estrogen, they like high testosterone that's how this male/female thing works.

get it got it good

Yep. That's exactly how it works. (Wait...no.) That's why people who take too many steroids, which mimics testosterone, grow two tities, have their balls shrink, become impotent, infertile, get liver damage, and a bunch of other stuff. Being a eunuch with some tities and a limp-ass-dieck will make someone an alpha male in any circle. ; ) This is not how it works. Too much testosterone is bad for you.

Get it? Got it? Good.

 

[James Dupri]

Exactly! The same happens with guys. Rare guys don't want to be an alpha male - but everyone else is jealous, but most use excuses to cover it up ("I don't want to be a brainless jock", "He's up himself, I'm more independent", etc).

i agree

To the non alpha male dude...good argument except:

1. just because your one of those skinny socks around their ankle dudes don't mean you gotta hate.

haha

 

[vagrant]

I think it would help if we give examples of guys who we think are alpha. One person that I've always thought was an alpha is Manny Pacquiao, a professional boxer.

Manny Pacquiao was born from a very very poor family. At the age of 10 he left his little province to go to the Philippines main city of Manila to find a better life, not only for him but also for his family.

He founds boxing and turned professional at the age of 16. For many guys who are in their thirties and still live with their parents, Manny Pacquiao at the age of 16 was the one taking care of his whole family.

He became a millionaire at the age of 25. At his current age of 31 he has helped both his parents sides' family finish school. I'm talking about more than 100 relatives finishing school. He's also helping poor people from the Philippines get their education. Aside from that he's always giving away money to the poor.

He is now a multimillionaire, he can retire yet he is still out there jogging 5 miles every single day, sparring and just plain risking his life for something that he already has, fame and money. The scary thing is, he's still getting better and better.

His plan when he retires is to enter politics which is something he doesn't have to do, yet he does because he wants to help and obviously he'll run out of money if he keeps giving his own money away. But still, this guy can just move to the US and live happily ever after and not give a s h i t about anybody.

Anyways, I believe he is close to becoming the greatest boxer ever which is a big debate so it's not the focus here.

To me he is just PURE ALPHA. He doesn't talk s h i t about anyone including his opponents though he already knows what he's capable of. He has the confidence that just shows. I mean he doesn't have to show off and talk all this bs. He just does and everyone loves him.

He always grow as a person. I mean I can go on and on about this guy about his personality and what he has done. All the amazing things he has done to help is just inspiring. And to think how poor he was back then not having anything to eat, with old slippers that he probably just found from the trash and now he's.......I don't know.

Being tough on the outside isn't everything. This guys is nice like a cat but he can fight anywhere, anytime and he's not afraid. He's really cool and to me he's a REAL ALPHA. Not a wanna be. Just a PURE ALPHA and he doesn't even know it.

 

[cletus]

This thread is complete nonsense and icepick clearly has no understanding of attraction. Nobody ever said anything about an Alpha Male being a tough guy. The Alpha Male is the guy who's comfortable in his own skin, respects others, but doesn't take any garbage from anyone. Not the guy who curses constantly on a message board.

 

[zekko]

Look at it this way: The alpha male is the guy with the most status.
Can you tell me women aren't going to find that attractive?
It's true that you can get women if you aren't an alpha - you could be a well placed beta, for example.

It's not a hard and fast rule that the alpha male will get his pick of the women, although all other things being equal I think it's most likely true. But other things are seldom equal - there are a lot of factors that go into human attraction. Generally speaking, if you are an alpha male you are likely to have more female options available to you if than if you are not.

Remember, it's a lot of work to be the alpha male. You can be a beta and still get a nice warm place to sleep within the tribe and probably a decent looking girl with a nice personality.