Taxes are Illegal.

[djbr]

I plan on moving out of the US when I am of retirement age to somewhere in South America.

Oh, if you like taxes you're more than welcome here in Brazil.

Some products have more than 60% of their value composed by taxes. And you americans think you pay too much...

At least you have public services that you can use. Try, just TRY to go to a public hospital here.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

I agree with Nocturnal.

Around my area, a company did over the highway IN EXCHANGE for the rights to plow, sand, maintain, build, and utilize it for some 20 years. They borrowed big dollars to fund it, and then HAD to complete on time according to the government's plans, or face steap fines. The company ended up running OVER completion projections, and were losing $150,000/day in fines. However, they OVERestimated and built this, so they profited, the government profited, and the people profited since there was an incentive to finish. The government COULD not fund the project as much of MA tax dollars are tied up in the big dig.

So can such projects work?

ABSOLUTELY.

And that's just one example.

----------------------------

In the early days, TRUST and CORPORATIONS were specifically funded and kept for specific periods of time to engage in SPECIFIC public functions for the good of the public. There were no ENDURING corporations, with unlimited lives and unlimited funding. They merely existed for specific reasons, with specific capitalization rates, AND corporations held their shareholders PERSONALLY liable. When they passed the 14th amendment freeing ALL "people", nearly 300 cases were brought to the supreme court by Corporate Lawyers arguing to gain equal footing for companies. Today, a Corporation is known to be a PERSON, despite the existence of a conscience, liable shareholders, organs, or much concern for the planet and its welfare.

Early public works projects were BUILT this way, because the government didn't have the tax revenues to do so, and they benefited ALL parties. The corporation/trust remained away from the government. They could profit to a certain extent on lucrative government projections. And the people were assured of quality + cost savings, SO THEY knew what was going on. Sure, some graft occurred, by which projects were awarded on the basis of friendship, but is it any worse than just TAKING all the dough from Taxpayers and then SAYING what they WILL do with your money??

If people have a self interest and personal responsibility, THEY CARE. Problem is, like this post, few people feel that anymore.

If you earned say, $50,000, then you'd keep nearly ALL $50,000, and choose within the country the best options for your needs.

-Your kids would go to the school of your choice. Poorer kids to poorer schools (or Economies of Scale would kick in). As far as rich kids, don't they already GO to private schools anyways? Academically, MORE scholarships and athletic scholarships could be had to encourage ACTUAL interest in specific career pathes.

-Your retirement dollars wouldn't go to a pyramid/ponzi scheme like social security, in which you pay in, get no compounded returns, can't pass on the benefits to your heirs once you die, nor have a record of what you've paid in. More over, there's a TAX on social security and a GIVE-Back provision if you earn too much money, EVEN though you paid into it FORCIBLY. Instead, people could choose to save this difference, OR, risk total poverty at retirement. In any effect, this would benefit those who have the attitude of "why should I care", since social darwinism would abound, and seniors are liable to FIGHT back or Create waves of crime in their 60's if they're homeless.

-We wouldn't have people living on welfare, entering the country and applying, multitudes of single mothers grifting the system (though there are some who deserve it), disability, and other disincentive programs. The benfits that exist aren't enough, which is good, but begs the question as to why they exist, since poor generations tend to continue for multiple generations going forward.

-Fire and police would be INCENTIVIZED. They'd be in shape, well trained, etc. Some could choose personal protection, others would provide private protection, much like AAA, Prepaid Legal, AFLAC, etc. To this end, the supply/demand of the position would be dictacted by the market demands of the people, AND NOT what government spending of our dollars are.
**Fire deparments WERE once businesses, but the competition led to a spat of homes burning down. People would place their protective emblem on the door or house, and if you weren't UNDER their umbrella, then they'd drive on by, despite the fact that you're home was burning. Fire or police might remain private, BUT, it concerns me as it relates to THEIR EMPLOYER.

------------------------------------

Other countries are paying exhorbitant taxes for erroneous reasons.

-Political instability.
-Defaults on loans to the IMF or creditor countries like CHINA, England, or the US, results in high interest rates, therefore high tax bills.
-Products have to be imported.
-Graft inside the government lends itself to corruption and theivery.
-I wouldn't question the tax rate, I'd question the government IMPOSING such a tax rate, as to is solvency and its stability.

Lastly, what's the tax on? Income, or just basic products. Taxes are obviously NOT EASY, but if you have a system that taxes EVERY step of production, which imbeds taxes into the final product, THEN charges the consumer taxes on THAT product, and charges you taxes on the INCOME you've earned, it can be as high as 50% or more, IF calculated correctly. But most only see 10, 15, 20% taxes, and not the taxes of OTHER taxes on consumption, and the imbedded taxes in the products you buy.

I think we OWE something to dollars, but each individual SHOULD have say in where it goes. That does not exist as we know it.



A-Unit

 

[Nocturnal]

Without the various agencies under the office of Health and Human Services (Center for Disease Control (CDC) pops into my mind as one of the most important) we would have greater health related problems throughout this country.

My question remains, has our lack of a socialized health care system, in comparison to countries like those of Europe, created a widespread health problem affecting those who can afford proper health care, or are there at least noticeable differences? You're saying that without things like the CDC, we would be worse off. But what about when they are not just eliminated, but replaced by private companies. Does the situation still become worse? Why?

You are 19 and as far as I know you arent in the mil, so how would you know? I am sure I have a better grasp on how the Mil spends money than you do since I was part of the green machine for a few years.

The reason I know is because my father just retired as an air force pilot after 25 years, and my best friend's mother is an auditor for the air force who investigates various agencies within the branch.



For example, do you know what typically happens when a flight squadron does not spend their entire budget before the end of the fiscal year? They go out of their way to burn off the extra money by running extra flights, sometimes making their pilots working extra hours just so they can get rid of the money. Fuel and maintenance for million dollar jets are not cheap. If they don't get rid of the left over money, their budget for the next year shrinks. They don't want that, so they burn off the left over money. Would a department of a private organization ever do something like that? Not a chance in hell. But when your organization has a nearly unlimited source of income (if you need more then you raise taxes), and when you don't stand to gain any personal profit as an organization, where is the incentive to spend your customers' (citizens') money wisely?

Are you going to volunteer 2 million dollars for an Abrams tank to protect your neighborhood? How about 600,000 to purchase an armored Hummer and fully equip it? I have no idea what a fighter jet costs but millions of dollars for them as well. Get real, no one has that kind of money to spend on it and even if neighborhoods pooled their money no way in hell would a citizen defense force match the equipment and training of any professional military. If the Queen of England wanted to invade us her majesties armed forces would roll through here with minimal resistance and reclaim what they lost over 225 years ago.

I never said anything about a "citizen defense force." A professional military does not have to be funded by taxes. And how is paying millions of dollars a person comparable to the few thousand in taxes that each person pays to the military?
One very viable option for the government to fund itself is to have fees for contract enforcement. The fee could either occur on a case-by-case basis, or it could be like an insurance policy. This alone would generate a huge amount of money. There are other possibilities, but how feasible it would be doesn't change the fact that taxation is still stealing.

Sometimes you need a big brother to look out for you. Our own greed would cause our demise (which is happening now with outsourcing to China but thats a whole other topic for discussion). There is no moral absolute that says you have to give your money away but there is also no law saying you have to live in the states. If you dont want to play by the rules put in place here in the USA, then go live somewhere else. No hard feelings. I am in no way a fan of giving my money away in the form of taxes but it is a necessary evil. I plan on moving out of the US when I am of retirement age to somewhere in South America. Until then I will fork over a portion of my income to the State and Federal government to use as they see fit.

There is no law saying you have to live in the states, but the question is whether
that can actually be considered as an alternative. The government could say, "if you don't want to pay tax, you can leave," if they owned the land on which you were staying. But they don't. They do not have the right to remove someone from their property just because they don't want to obey an arbitrary set of rules (unless the rights of others are at stake, in which case the government would most certainly have the obligation to do what would be necessary to protect those rights). You have three options. Give them your money, leave the country, or face imprisonment. Whichever you choose, it is by force, and thus unjust if you have violated no ones rights.

I don't believe any evil can be necessary. For something to be evil, there must somewhere lie a choice between good and evil, as morality cannot exist without choice. Either you don't have the choice and it's necessary, in which case it cannot be either good or evil, or you do have the choice, in which case it is more necessary to pick the good choice, not the evil one.

It is proper to pay taxes as long as they are imposed, because the negative consequences outweigh the positive ones (in most cases at least), but that doesn't make it just for the government to impose them in the first place.

 

[Nocturnal]

There's a word to describe this, can anyone help me out?

The word you are looking for is "easement." The specific scenario you discussed, where someone buys up all the surrounding land, would live the newly isolated landowner an "easement by necessity" that could be used to get access to the nearest road.

Thanks Bible_Belt, that was exactly the word I was looking for.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

That's just it, property, earth is all commercialized, if you can't pay, BUH BYE. Here, this land is our's, the governments, you can walk on it, but only during SPECIFIC hours, you can't light a campfire, walk a dog, ride a bike, have a picnic, or sit and kiss. Just look, and walk through.

And here, this is private citizen property.

And over there, corporate property, don't tread on me.

Boundaries everywhere. Segregated and separated. Isolated. Shut off and cut off.

Life has given way to mere survival, that is neatly packaged in small bites, easily bought and sold, like relationships.

Life begins as paradise in the mind of the viewer, but that's the last vestiges of happiness.

It isn't idealistic to DESIRE a simpler way of life, or to walk from the complexities you choose not to be involved.

People scoff the matrix, but it exists, in less or maybe MORE, technological savy integrated system.

Taxes are FORCED payments, exhorbitants, and while you can claim "Be Happy, You Made Money," there never seems enough to do what you want. If you choose to make money, REAL money to be free, you devote yourself to maintaining THAT system to claim FALSE freedom, since you take part in their GAMES. And if you choose go be free, no obligations, pure freedom, total love and happiness, no boundaries, no ego, you're a lunatic, wacko.

"What, you don't want a job with a major (SAFE) corporation?"
"What, you don't want a big, fancy car, that guzzles big gas so we can fight to defend the lands of oil?"
"What, you don't want sex with oceans of promiscuous women who've been with your friend, brother, or worse, a father or uncle?"
"What, don't you want to vote, when 2 elections have been somewhat botched and never discussed further?"

The questions abound from the automatons, but they only ask the questions because they want MORE people to join their line of thinking to make THEM feel normal, when they know DEEP in their hearts and minds, THINGS aren't right.

So they prod you, like cattle to the slaughter. Like lemmings off a cliff.

You, I, guys, brothers, are all related, connected, a piece of one another, though seemingly separated. But only separated by our site, not by our minds. We're united in our cause here on this earth, this planet, and even at this site. Selfishly, we can extract whatever seems to benefit ourselves from here, by ultimately such places only EXIST through the common brotherhood between one another. What better example of co-existence (sans competition) than a bunch of guys across space and time, cooperating on major life issues?

Swallow the blue pill, do what you can to create the alternate reality, to shun what seems true. But it lasts so long until you've blinded enough and find yourself in quick sand.

At the core, base, bottom line, the ego dissolves. Lose the need to feel safe everyday, to have "things", instead of experiences and connections with people, and life brightens. Or stay with the ego, remain an animal, only as sapiens, fail to ascend higher in life itself.

There's more to life, to existence, if we put life into the more. And we give more to life. If you remain bigger in ALL situations, not just ones that benefit you, positive waves/emotions are created that abound the planet. You don't just WALLOW in misery. You don't denegrate your own energy a few levels. How do you feel when you're involved in arguments, negativity, fights, hatred, and bitterness? Terrible. Normally. The negative energy undermines your true positive energy, and remains a tattoo on your soul until you make peace with it.

LIFE is SIMPLE, though not easy. It's not easy to put aside the VISUAL (site) differences. To discard the ego. To lose the fact we care so much about one-upping and division. Let others care until they release they're standing alone, and quiet.

Taxes are but one brick at the base of the pyramid of quagmire. There isn't a perfection solution, but when you're dealing with abnormally crazy people unwilling to change, always overly concerned about their own welfare, no good can come of any situation. No good can come of a PERFECT suggestion, or situation.



A-Unit

 

[Nocturnal]

A-Unit, I can't even begin to explain how backwards I think all of that was. When I get the chance I'll add my input.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

That's fine, they're collected thoughts, not a pointed essay. I diverged from the topic at hand, so no need to critique. Offer criticism, suggestions, input, but the philosophy of feelings is an underlying outlook on life, not a political party designation. More importantly, message or email me directly so as to stay on original post topic.

A-Unit

 

[NYtomb]

My question remains, has our lack of a socialized health care system, in comparison to countries like those of Europe, created a widespread health problem affecting those who can afford proper health care, or are there at least noticeable differences? You're saying that without things like the CDC, we would be worse off. But what about when they are not just eliminated, but replaced by private companies. Does the situation still become worse? Why?

What is a private companies financial benefit for researching ways to stop the spread of infectious diseases and epidemics? Most of these research projects run in the red and dont come up with a solution to a problem at hand.

The reason I know is because my father just retired as an air force pilot after 25 years, and my best friend's mother is an auditor for the air force who investigates various agencies within the branch.

I am speaking of 1st hand experience here. I could go on about what my parents know from their jobs but its still not personal experience.

For example, do you know what typically happens when a flight squadron does not spend their entire budget before the end of the fiscal year? They go out of their way to burn off the extra money by running extra flights,

Extra training time is a bad thing? I see where you are going and you are right in a way.

sometimes making their pilots working extra hours just so they can get rid of the money. Fuel and maintenance for million dollar jets are not cheap. If they don't get rid of the left over money, their budget for the next year shrinks. They don't want that, so they burn off the left over money. Would a department of a private organization ever do something like that? Not a chance in hell. But when your organization has a nearly unlimited source of income (if you need more then you raise taxes), and when you don't stand to gain any personal profit as an organization, where is the incentive to spend your customers' (citizens') money wisely?

You see this in every aspect of the government, not just the military. If the money isnt spent its taken back and redistributed and the budget for the next FY is adjusted accordingly. Strangely enough this occurs on the private side as well but not as bad. I dont think your father or myself has seen an unlimited source of income. When the money budgeted for the year is spent, its spent and when you ask for more its not like they just hand it over to you. Its a pain in the ass process to get supplemental funding.

I never said anything about a "citizen defense force." A professional military does not have to be funded by taxes. And how is paying millions of dollars a person comparable to the few thousand in taxes that each person pays to the military?

You lost me here. I was saying that someone has to fund a militia or private force and that the level of funding for adequate defenses wont be from me or you paying a fee to a private corporation.

One very viable option for the government to fund itself is to have fees for contract enforcement. The fee could either occur on a case-by-case basis, or it could be like an insurance policy. This alone would generate a huge amount of money. There are other possibilities, but how feasible it would be doesn't change the fact that taxation is still stealing.

Ok. We have this private security force protecting the borders. How is it funded again? Tax dollars. Anyway putting that aside they breach their contract halfway through for non performance. Here we are with a lapse in security while the lawyers battle this out. If the gov runs defense they have you for the term of your service contract. You breach/go awol, you suffer the consequences of your action. This helps to keep a defense force at all times.

There is no law saying you have to live in the states, but the question is whether
that can actually be considered as an alternative.

In high school after going out, partying and skipping my chores my parents told me if I didnt like their rules I should leave their house. I moved out after graduating and enlisted in the Army. Same rule applies for this country. If you dont like the rules, no one is holding a gun to your head to stay and pay taxes. Immigrate somewhere else, renounce your US citizenship and live the rest of your life in some other country where you feel that you are getting a better deal. Seems simple enough.

The government could say, "if you don't want to pay tax, you can leave," if they owned the land on which you were staying. But they don't. They do not have the right to remove someone from their property just because they don't want to obey an arbitrary set of rules (unless the rights of others are at stake, in which case the government would most certainly have the obligation to do what would be necessary to protect those rights). You have three options. Give them your money, leave the country, or face imprisonment. Whichever you choose, it is by force, and thus unjust if you have violated no ones rights.

Force would be the last option here but it is still something that will come up. You dont pay, you will be fined and eventually your property will be seized. The roads arent free, the education system isnt free (most of my property tax goes to education), the parks arent free, the town pool isnt free, the county beaches arent free. All need maintenance money from your taxes or else you would be living in a dump/ghetto. Who wants to live like a slob? not me.

I don't believe any evil can be necessary. For something to be evil, there must somewhere lie a choice between good and evil, as morality cannot exist without choice. Either you don't have the choice and it's necessary, in which case it cannot be either good or evil, or you do have the choice, in which case it is more necessary to pick the good choice, not the evil one.

It is proper to pay taxes as long as they are imposed, because the negative consequences outweigh the positive ones (in most cases at least), but that doesn't make it just for the government to impose them in the first place.

You are stuck on your opinion, I am stuck on mine. Go and visit A-Unit, he is up in MA and both of you can drive down to Boston, dress up like Indians and throw tea into the harbor as a sign of protest. When you get arrested dont accept a public defender to protect you since his salary would be paid from taxes. You are a man of principle who wouldnt want to be viewed as a hypocrite.

 

[diplomatic_lies]

But humans seek security. It is one of our most important concerns. We want to be safe, be secure. We don't want to be nervous. Do you want to constantly look over your shoulder, worried that some mercenary might shoot you, that bandits might mug you, that there might be 400 tons of bombs raining from the sky?

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Mostly I'm amazed at how hardened the hearts and minds already of the youth and advancing 20 year olds are. As if reality and the status of the country is firmly entrenched.

Tomb, you're putting the CART before the HORSE. People were here before THE GOVERNMENT. Any government, not just our's. A government is created FOR the people, BY the people, OF the people. In today's global economy, it operates almost 100% autonomously as if it were a corporation TELLING THE CITIZENS what's good for them.

A government is any ruling which gets together to protect the collective interests, needs, and wants of the people. The downfall to democracy is that it's MAJORITY vs MINORITY, so if the majority comprises of 51% of the people, then the other 49% must accept whatever is passed or ruled on. That is still a large % outed. However, at present it's the system that makes sense and seems most equitable at PRESENT.

However, the united states wasn't just HERE and we all immigrated INTO it like present day immigrants. It was FOUNDED and hoped to have been the best form over tyrannies, socialist societies, fascist societies, communist socities and feudal systems.

What is a private companies financial benefit for researching ways to stop the spread of infectious diseases and epidemics? Most of these research projects run in the red and dont come up with a solution to a problem at hand.

Well, let's see curing Cancer? That should drive profits. And my father is on many meds for heart disease and blood pressure, and those aren't cheap either. Financial benefit? Deriving a cure for the disease yields a profit. I don't think you can dispute that the profit would be given to discovered of a cure. If it's a MINOR disease with few contagions, then nobody, not even the gov. is likely to explore cures. But if it's widespread, then it's profitable enough for the drug maker to discover the solution.

I have other beliefs that many diseases coming about, and ones in the past that surfaced were man-made. I know, hard to fathom, but altogether true. They're deriving the solution, wouldn't it seem possible that they also created the problem to continue to validate their existence? No matter if you buy it, if there's profit to be had in solving a widespread epidemic, SOMEONE would do it. If only a handful of people died or were sick from 1 disease, then it's not likely the gov. would even waste time figuring it out.

I am speaking of 1st hand experience here. I could go on about what my parents know from their jobs but its still not personal experience.

Actually, isn't that how interviews are done? Don't we take advice from 1st parties and use that as the basis of much of what we do? I fail to see how his Parent's own experience are discounted because it's NOT first hand? Isn't that better than saying "check this website out," or "my friend..." ? You're not likely to get ANYONE volunteering information on taxes publicly, nor would you get many whistle blowers ready to espouse the truth.

In high school after going out, partying and skipping my chores my parents told me if I didnt like their rules I should leave their house. I moved out after graduating and enlisted in the Army. Same rule applies for this country. If you dont like the rules, no one is holding a gun to your head to stay and pay taxes. Immigrate somewhere else, renounce your US citizenship and live the rest of your life in some other country where you feel that you are getting a better deal. Seems simple enough.

So life has an automatic claim against it? An automatic liability? To a program of which we have no control? Just take my money and I must do as you say? Is that what we fight for?

Have you ever thought for a minute that, just because we're figthing or defending, does the killing or warring balance itself out? That if we're SUPPOSEDLY a nation of good people attack us, and we defend, then retaliate and kill millions, that we'd be better off dying? I would say so. Maybe it's luny, but honestly, WHIPPING out life, because we feel some manifest destiny to it doesn't balance out well.

Defending, fine. Killing. Empire building. Warring. Doesn't work. The world isn't better off, in any circumstance. The war we fought to be free from England was defense, and persisted until we had gotten them to submit.

The best analogy I can use that's widespread is from "A Few Good Men." In it, a marine was executed secretly because he wasn't "able" to handle the pressures of marine life and he jeopardized the rest of his unit. They killed him, because it was felt he might lead to other losses. Well, tell me, how is it justifiable to kill, with the expectation he MIGHT lead to lossess? If you're going to protect the masses, you have to protect ONE. You can't apply this rule, and then kill and innocent man. You deal with the situation at hand. They said they were meant to protect ALL LIFE, not just they deemed OK to protect, not just human beings (supposedly), BUT even their fellow soldiers, no matter their situation. Make sense? YOU don't separate what life to protect and what life you don't, and who you kill and who you don't. Totally undermines the purpose of WHAT THEY DO.

Force would be the last option here but it is still something that will come up. You dont pay, you will be fined and eventually your property will be seized. The roads arent free, the education system isnt free (most of my property tax goes to education), the parks arent free, the town pool isnt free, the county beaches arent free. All need maintenance money from your taxes or else you would be living in a dump/ghetto. Who wants to live like a slob? not me.

Tell me if our taxes CREATE this, is it worth it to have them? If the benefits we hand out to seniors, to retirees, to the dependents, and children, and survivors, and they don't MAKE better anything in return for TAKING the taxes, THEN GET RID OF THEM. They don't serve the purpose. Why is it so that generation after generation stay on welfare? Because it's JUST enough to not get off, or be able to get off, but we still fund the program. The UNDERLYING skills aren't built up for people to get off the program. We collect exhorbitant tax bills, YET seniors are more pissed than EVER about our healthcare system.

TWO wrongs definately don't make a right, especially when it relates to taxes. Moreover, you can't squash ideas before they are played through to their potential end.

Clarifying one thing, I believe we ALL owe, to EACH other SOMETHING, monetary (since it's the simplest system of barter right now) in order to protect, and keep up our common lands, BUT, that's where it ends. As stated previously by Nocturnal and emphasized by my posts, ILLEGAL taking of money is what it is, esp. by the branch known as the IRS. Moreover, the underlying PROGRAMS are not illegal, but are inherently evil.

And I'll be peacocking on Friday nights now with a full Indian garb. Thanks for the idea.


A-Unit

 

[backbreaker]

http://www.freedomtofascism.com/

 

[A-Unit]

Learn about the Creation of the Federal Reserve.

www.arcticbeacon.

View the link on the right hand side: "The Truth about the Federal Reserve"
[In White and Green, can't miss it]

Historical in basis. About 30-45 minutes. Give it a whirl.

A-Unit

 

[backbreaker]

damn I will take a look at that later on tonight when my internet connection stops acting up

 

[diplomatic_lies]

What's wrong with empire building? How do you think the good ol' USA was founded in the first place? America's very existence is due to European empire building.

 

[djbr]

Social Darwinism?

I play the game of money, and I play to win. Many people THINK they are playing the game of money, but they are actually nothing more than a part in someone else's engine. The more you learn about it, the less dependent you are on keeping someone else's machine running. Anyone who fails to recognize the importance of being financially educated, well, too bad for them.

Unfortunately this group of financially uneducated includes most of my family and friends. I try to help them, but the fact is, most people don't want to hear it. If they make that choice, then so be it. Some people are simply better with money than others.

A doctor makes the choice to attend school for the better part of a decade, sacrificing a good portion of his/her life for a payoff in the future. Should the doctor make the same amount of money as the janitor? Wouldn't be a whole lot of people signing up for that kind of deal, would there?

You seem to be suggesting that I should feel some sort of responsibility to look out for my fellow American citizens in the form of a handout that relieves them from the burden of taxes. Maybe if I hadn't been laughed at, taken advantage of, and stolen from so much in the past by people who feel that they are "owed" something in life, I might have a bit more compassion. Life's tough....you can either sit around and wait for a handout or get out there and earn it for yourself, the choice is yours.

I love you.


Seriously now, great post.

 

[Wyldfire]

Just move to New Hampshire... the only state tax is property tax. There is no sales tax and no state income tax.

 

[backbreaker]

www.arcticbeacon.

View the link on the right hand side: "The Truth about the Federal Reserve"
[In White and Green, can't miss it]

Historical in basis. About 30-45 minutes. Give it a whirl.

A-Unit

everyone needs to take about an hour out of their day to listen to this... it's time well spent.. nice website by the way.. have anymore?

 

[Nocturnal]

A-Unit, I don't think I'm going to have time to have another discussion about the post of yours that I commented on. But, to sum it up, while I disagree with taxation, its because I believe in the individual's rights to what he produces, not because I think that the corporate world is evil or that we need to unite under some sort of brotherhood.

What is a private companies financial benefit for researching ways to stop the spread of infectious diseases and epidemics? Most of these research projects run in the red and dont come up with a solution to a problem at hand.

The same financial benefit any inventor or innovator gains from doing research and taking risks. Most research projects may not come up with a solution, but are most inventions successful? Most businesses? Taking risk is a part of business, and successful, productive companies understand this.

I am speaking of 1st hand experience here. I could go on about what my parents know from their jobs but its still not personal experience.

From your perspective, it doesn't matter if I tell you I'm speaking out of my own experience or from what a family member told me. If you really want to question anectdotal evidence, you're welcome to fly to Germany to interview my father. The nature of a fact does not depend on the person providing it.

Extra training time is a bad thing? I see where you are going and you are right in a way.

Why shouldn't extra training be a bad thing? It's extra. If your boss told you to work an extra 20 hours a week, would you hold your tongue, telling yourself, "is extra work a bad thing?"

You see this in every aspect of the government, not just the military. If the money isnt spent its taken back and redistributed and the budget for the next FY is adjusted accordingly. Strangely enough this occurs on the private side as well but not as bad. I dont think your father or myself has seen an unlimited source of income. When the money budgeted for the year is spent, its spent and when you ask for more its not like they just hand it over to you. Its a pain in the ass process to get supplemental funding.

That is exactly what I am saying. Every outlet of the government runs under the premise of having a lack of financial incentive. So they are generally financially inefficient. The point is that if it were operated privately, money wasted like this would be limited.

You lost me here. I was saying that someone has to fund a militia or private force and that the level of funding for adequate defenses wont be from me or you paying a fee to a private corporation.

The military doesn't have to be private, as it serves the primary function of government, but it does not have to be forcefully funded by taxes. So you wouldn't give a dime to the army protecting your rights? In that case, you should be outraged that you're being forced to give them money through taxes.

Ok. We have this private security force protecting the borders. How is it funded again? Tax dollars. Anyway putting that aside they breach their contract halfway through for non performance. Here we are with a lapse in security while the lawyers battle this out. If the gov runs defense they have you for the term of your service contract. You breach/go awol, you suffer the consequences of your action. This helps to keep a defense force at all times.

I don't see how this would be different if the clients were the citizens. Contracts can still exist and a legal system could still enforce them.

In high school after going out, partying and skipping my chores my parents told me if I didnt like their rules I should leave their house. I moved out after graduating and enlisted in the Army. Same rule applies for this country. If you dont like the rules, no one is holding a gun to your head to stay and pay taxes. Immigrate somewhere else, renounce your US citizenship and live the rest of your life in some other country where you feel that you are getting a better deal. Seems simple enough.

If you had legally owned the property you occupied in your parents' house, and they told you to leave, would you have just given it up and left? If I own a house and land, and the government tells me to leave, should I just say 'Ok' and give it up too? The government either forcefully takes my property or forcefully takes my money. They are holding a gun to my head in that sense.

Force would be the last option here but it is still something that will come up. You dont pay, you will be fined and eventually your property will be seized. The roads arent free, the education system isnt free (most of my property tax goes to education), the parks arent free, the town pool isnt free, the county beaches arent free. All need maintenance money from your taxes or else you would be living in a dump/ghetto. Who wants to live like a slob? not me.

I'm not saying that no one should own the roads, education system, parks, etc. I'm saying the government should not be owning them.

You are stuck on your opinion, I am stuck on mine. Go and visit A-Unit, he is up in MA and both of you can drive down to Boston, dress up like Indians and throw tea into the harbor as a sign of protest. When you get arrested dont accept a public defender to protect you since his salary would be paid from taxes. You are a man of principle who wouldnt want to be viewed as a hypocrite.

As long as I'm living under force, whatever I option I take cannot be considered my fault. Paying taxes is the best option, because I avoid imprisonment. As long as I'm forced to live under a hostile system, I will play along.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Another one:

Documentary: "The Corporation."

Features MANY CEOs current and past, as well Harvard, MIT, and Yale professors. Howard Zinn, Michael Moore, Noam Chomsky and many many others. 2 hours long. FANTASTIC look at HOW corporations came about, how they evolved, what they're doing now, what they have done, and much, much more.

Can be found on the internet to be bought, on ON Demand if you cable TV, go to the independent movies section and watch FOR FREE, or I'm sure it's been ripped into some file sharing program, too.

Watch it.
Get educated from those who are on the FOREFRONT of research, teaching, defending, litigating, protecting, serving, owning, marketing, selling, the corporation.

If you check rense.com daily, they have widespread internet updates. There's also the AMERICAN FREE PRESS. And some other sites.

-------------------------

If you can, or if I can figure out HOW, get the video on the "The Building of the World Trade Center Towers." Watch that, and you'll see NOW plane filled with 2 billion gallons of fuel COULD bring down the towers.

Then, see the Loose Change Documentaries, parts 1 and 2. I found them somewhere and have them on the computer, but don't know how to get them to anyone who wants them on here.

What's interesting about ANY of this information as I would dub "underground history" is that, at one point, it was believed Kennedy WAS assassinated by Oswald. Funny though, the Baby Boomers NOW believe it to be a conspiracy, as assisted by the Zapruder film. If you ask MOST boomers, they'd tell you where they WERE that day, and say they loved Kennedy, he was the LAST great president in an age of GREAT people who shaped human history. Inspirational leaders are GONE.

Yet, it somehow seems unfathomable that we have EXTREME duplicity and anarchy today? The advent of technology has gone beyond where the Zapruder film left off. And Oswald WOULD have proven without a doubt THEN he was a patsy, but Jack Ruby, and inside man seeking to clean up loose ends, offed him. So, case closed. Anyone without PRECISE records are dead or in a nursing home that we'll never hear of. Even my own grandfather, who worked at high levels of the government took to his grave secrets he could not divulge to his own KIN.

There will be more to come, and I'll seek what I can on "taxes."


A-Unit