Strategies dealing with a girl who fights for the frame.

[filerfiler]

You've stated facts but I'm curious to hear what you've learned from this relationship.

That I’m an old fart and I can’t for the life of me stand people who don’t get it.

I’m just busy and every time I compromised on selectiveness it comes back to bite me because I just do not have the time to re educate

I’m fine with testing boundaries ONCE, and she has to get it just from my reaction. If I have to explain to someone how to behave and respect I find it an extreme turn off

It means they may grumpily do or not do what I asked but behind my back they’ll do othe stuff and I don’t have the time to police

if they don't just internalise how to behave there is no hope

However when you find someone who just gets it life is just to much easier for both of you, it's bliss...

That goes for me as well... for the right girl she'll be treated like she's never dreamed but I have to get to that stage naturally


I guess I don’t just want my pen inked and that’s it… in fact at times I failed to perform if I don’t at some level find the girl intellectually compatible and femininine in some way

 

[Divorced w 3]

That I’m an old fart and I can’t for the life of me stand people who don’t get it.

I’m just busy and every time I compromised on selectiveness it comes back to bite me because I just do not have the time to re educate

I’m fine with testing boundaries ONCE, and she has to get it just from my reaction. If I have to explain to someone how to behave and respect I find it an extreme turn off

It means they may grumpily do or not do what I asked but behind my back they’ll do othe stuff and I don’t have the time to police

if they don't just internalise how to behave there is no hope

However when you find someone who just gets it life is just to much easier for both of you, it's bliss...


I guess I don’t just want my pen inked and that’s it… in fact at times I failed to perform if I don’t at some level find the girl intellectually compatible and femininine in some way

Your banging a model just a little bit more than half your age and she’s cooking for you,( unless she’s a hand model) I respectfully ask you, why can’t you just be in the moment. Do you realize you’re playing a great hand, and not that others won’t come along but they’re considered great hands for a reason because they don’t happen a lot. Maybe you pull a lot of ass like this and if so fine more power to you. But like dude, why can’t you just have nice things. Chill the F out on all the rules and regulations. You’re gonna boundary your way right out of a 27 year old dime piece for no good reason. Stop overthinking this. Fvck her brains out and enjoy yourself.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Speak of the devil...

I left her on read for 4 days, today she hits back with what are you doing later?

I laughed. So I'm thinking to hit back with "busy". the reality is I'm busy until later evening... or perhaps i should say busy until late.

You are the sort of guy who is going to manipulate and gaslight this woman to death in six months aren’t you. JFC

 

[Divorced w 3]

Why? To teach her a lesson?


You are playing with fire and will get burned. Good luck to you

He’s gonna be a Netflix series

 

[BackInTheGame78]

How do you reconcile this with her actions?

1) Bombards my phone first thing in the morning with doty messages

2) Wants to hang out during the day at cafes.

3) Brings me a present every time we meet.

4) Talks to me about future plans and so forth

Sounds like love bombing. Beware OP...they lure you in this way and then turn on you like a hungry pit bull once they know they have you.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Sounds like love bombing. Beware OP

I agree on that. I don’t think he’s got the chops to navigate it.

 

[New_Journey]

Fvck her brains out and enjoy yourself.

 

[Sega Genesis]

That I’m an old fart and I can’t for the life of me stand people who don’t get it.

I’m just busy and every time I compromised on selectiveness it comes back to bite me because I just do not have the time to re educate

I’m fine with testing boundaries ONCE, and she has to get it just from my reaction. If I have to explain to someone how to behave and respect I find it an extreme turn off

It means they may grumpily do or not do what I asked but behind my back they’ll do othe stuff and I don’t have the time to police

if they don't just internalise how to behave there is no hope

However when you find someone who just gets it life is just to much easier for both of you, it's bliss...

That goes for me as well... for the right girl she'll be treated like she's never dreamed but I have to get to that stage naturally


I guess I don’t just want my pen inked and that’s it… in fact at times I failed to perform if I don’t at some level find the girl intellectually compatible and femininine in some way

Call me the odd one out but I do "get this"^^.

If I read this post correctly, you desire more than the young hot smokeshow who cooks for you and who you can readily bang, you desire a woman with a decent level of EQ and intellectual compatibility as well as beauty and I actually applaud you for that!

Such women DO exist!

It reflects at least to me you have depth and a certain amount of emotional integrity, which are attractive qualities at least to me and my circle of female friends.

It does become exhausting having to constantly educate and set the same boundaries, I can relate to that even as a female and yes agree it's a huge turnoff.

I'm not sure why you're being criticized for it but anyway...

Re this girl, it seems to me she does "get it," and it didn't require much explaining or teaching; you didn't contact her for 4 days and now SHE has reached out asking what your plans are later (she wants to see you).

Thus, she's no longer 'fighting your frame,' the opposite she has graciously "fallen into your frame." And she figured it out all on her own..

So why the dismissive response "I'm busy"?

Isn't this precisely what you wanted?

Why not meet her halfway at least? I like @BeExcellent response.

You could always say "Hmmm. Got stuff going on until pretty late. What did you have in mind?"

You respond in a nuetralish way & volley the ball back to her. See what happens next....

Spot on!

Anyway, you're gonna do what you want regardless just maybe be a bit less stubborn and don't cut off your nose to spite your face or whatever that saying is?

JMO good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Divorced w 3]

So why the dismissive response "I'm busy"?

Bc it’s not frame.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Bc it’s not frame.

You mean by reaching out, she wasn't falling into his frame? If so, what was it?

Or do you mean he lost frame?

Serious question.

 

[Divorced w 3]

You mean by reaching out, she wasn't falling into his frame?

If so, what was it?

Serious question.

His angle is insecurity and if I had to throw a dart, early ground work for control and manipulation. I can smell this out a mile away.

 

[Sega Genesis]

His angle is insecurity and if I had to throw a dart, early ground work for control and manipulation. I can smell this out a mile away.

This makes sense which is why I questioned him about it and suggested instead something along the lines of what Be wrote.

He's gonna end up losing because seems to me when girl puts forth some effort especially after a guy goes cold for 4 days, a man would want to encourage that with positive reinforcement versus an aloof dismissive response like "busy" which would discourage it.

It would me anyway, I dunno.

But then again, if his goal is manipulation and creating insecurity, that's a whole n'other thing and wish him luck...

 

[filerfiler]

Chill guys I followed a version of BeExcellents advice, and she just left after asking to come over earlier…. Might give out some more detail later the whole thing was as I expected

 

[filerfiler]

Details since you guys have been helpful

I sent her a variation of Be's message. She reached out a few hours later, she came over, dropped her clothes as soon as she got into the door. We ended up having an awesome laughter filled night.

In the aftermath she spilled it all - I didn't have to say a thing and I just nodded. She said it's ok if we go slow, she said she didn't really mean to be rude , she apologized, she said I was confusing her with the relationship stuff. To have her mind rest a bit i told her "I know it's my fault". Then she got starry eyed and said Please don't put me on timeout again. I just about contained myself from simultenously melting and bursting with laughter at that point.

The reality, my interpretation and some lessons.

1) We cleared overheated too quickly at the start and she freaked out. She didn't know what she wanted and she probably got too scared of how i was playing to her relationship stuff, as if I'm happy to do what she wanted.

No woman wants that, a good woman wants her man to be in control - if she's able to get him too easily, what standards does he have.

I probably got too carried away because while I didn't mind it, I was ok to play along and didn't apply brakes, I was probably also subconsciously wanting the relationship stuff.

Obviously all my fault.

2) Like any woman, she wants a strong man she can happily submit to. A strong man who can protect her, and is worthy of her submission. Such a strong man has to be tested (subconsciously) and she had her own way of doing that. Once she finds a solid man she melts right into it.

3) Stick to your frame. Don't compromise.

I stuck to my guns and temporarily paused our interaction (essentially saying you play by my rules or we don't play at all).

4) Demonstrate, don't explain. I didn't have to explain a thing. In fact it's astonishing how little I did (just the message saying let's not meet). It did however take some will power to move on, wait and observe.

The trick is knowing what Not to do rather than finding what you need to do.

5) Having genuine options helps. she was expecting to see me on Tuesday in a local event and I didn't show up because I took another girl out, This certainly got her mind racing. yesterday she asked where i was and of course I didn't tell her this and I dismissed the question. . I am also seeing another girl tonight.

This helps with the next point…

6) Be prepared to lose it all. And you will do.

Some of you will say this is manipulative… gaslighting. Whatever… it was ultimately good for both us and when she left she was clearly on cloud 9. Being able to make a person this happy is quite the experience.

Peace and out… until the next time she acts up lol

 

[BeExcellent]

Nice to have options and the ability to play it cool. Good job. Good outcome. This is how you encourage her to invest and behave.

Humans come to love what they invest in. Always remember this.

Cheers.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

Details since you guys have been helpful

I sent her a variation of Be's message. She reached out a few hours later, she came over, dropped her clothes as soon as she got into the door. We ended up having an awesome laughter filled night.

In the aftermath she spilled it all - I didn't have to say a thing and I just nodded. She said it's ok if we go slow, she said she didn't really mean to be rude , she apologized, she said I was confusing her with the relationship stuff. To have her mind rest a bit i told her "I know it's my fault". Then she got starry eyed and said Please don't put me on timeout again. I just about contained myself from simultenously melting and bursting with laughter at that point.

The reality, my interpretation and some lessons.

1) We cleared overheated too quickly at the start and she freaked out. She didn't know what she wanted and she probably got too scared of how i was playing to her relationship stuff, as if I'm happy to do what she wanted.

No woman wants that, a good woman wants her man to be in control - if she's able to get him too easily, what standards does he have.

I probably got too carried away because while I didn't mind it, I was ok to play along and didn't apply brakes, I was probably also subconsciously wanting the relationship stuff.

Obviously all my fault.

2) Like any woman, she wants a strong man she can happily submit to. A strong man who can protect her, and is worthy of her submission. Such a strong man has to be tested (subconsciously) and she had her own way of doing that. Once she finds a solid man she melts right into it.

3) Stick to your frame. Don't compromise.

I stuck to my guns and temporarily paused our interaction (essentially saying you play by my rules or we don't play at all).

4) Demonstrate, don't explain. I didn't have to explain a thing. In fact it's astonishing how little I did (just the message saying let's not meet). It did however take some will power to move on, wait and observe.

The trick is knowing what Not to do rather than finding what you need to do.

5) Having genuine options helps. she was expecting to see me on Tuesday in a local event and I didn't show up because I took another girl out, This certainly got her mind racing. yesterday she asked where i was and of course I didn't tell her this and I dismissed the question. . I am also seeing another girl tonight.

This helps with the next point…

6) Be prepared to lose it all. And you will do.

Some of you will say this is manipulative… gaslighting. Whatever… it was ultimately good for both us and when she left she was clearly on cloud 9. Being able to make a person this happy is quite the experience.

Peace and out… until the next time she acts up lol

Good to hear, although it's when she's away that she acts up. The fact that you fielded advice here indicates dealing with this kind of push pull isn't something that comes naturally, or that you're at least open to evolving. I suspect she'll wait until she senses you're more invested before trying something again. As long as you don't identify with the attention you won't feel threatened when she tries to pull it away.

 

[Skyline]

Been seeing this girl lately. Some facts:

1. We have an age gap (41-28).
2. She is undeniably hot , 9/10 (a model), and it's quite clear she hasn't had a relationship where she didn't firmly hold the reins and had "yes men" all her life. I don't think she's used to "No" and it clearly both freaks her out and attracts her.
3. She, by her practices, is looking for something long term - I've slept with over 10 girls last year, and she is standing out as the one who genuinely asks questions about me and my two children in a way that says she's interested in more than just my ****, which is the impression i get from other girls. She has also been cooking for me, and all in all I get the impression she's a family girl
4. I don't mind something long term, but in the right frame. And in my view it's way too early to contemplate anything like that just yet.
5. Why does she like me? she was the one to hover around me because of my social status being a trainer in a local event. Plus I fit her "hot" archetype i guess.
6. We have met 6 times. k-close 1st time, heavy LMR snd time, f-close 3rd time + . All of this in the last 3 weeks.

Face to face and when we're meeting she's happy as a clam. The pattern when we meet is she is super feminine, we have some fun activity together, we cook some kind of meal, and have some mind blowing sex, the next morning she sends me a bunch of messages about how she's happy and about her day etc...

Then over the next 2 days until we meet again I sense that she freaks out that she's not in control of the relationship, and starts attempting to bargain. She explicitly asks whether I'm seeing other people and clearly wants exclusivity. Then she says she wants me to be more responsive over text, and to call her over the phone, etc...

This happened twice, when she asked for exclusivity I insisted this was something we talk about f2f. When we met I told her I'd like things to progress naturally, I told her I'm not here to screw her or anything like that. I also strongly hinted to her that I find being demanding extremely unattractive and to knock it off. I also told her any discussion like this will never happen over text and to be f2f.

After this we met and again the sense of attraction was off the charts, even more submissive and happy in bed.

We were meant to meet tomorrow, and she's been sending me pictures of herself etc (classy stuff).. and i told her to cook again when we meet tomorrow.

Today though she completely freaks out again, I wake up to a bunch of messages about how I'm confusing her with my signals, because I'm not that responsive to her over text, and I don't call her, and I don't take her out, she says "honestly I do not know what you want you're confusing me".

She then throws the ultimatum that we can't meet tomorrow. Then she says may may be if I'm better with her on text. I don't have the time for that.

I recognize all of these ultimatums and tantrums for what they are, declarations of loss of control. So I shut her out because I've had enough, i told her:

* it seems that we're getting too attached here, let's stop meeting until we have some control over our emotions".

She replies back ... no worries, I did not realise you feel this way, followed by a sad emoji.

So at this point I'm thinking I'm not going to reach out again, but I'm curious in your thoughts about how I handled this and how it should be handled going forward.

You are the one throwing this opportunity away lol

If she is a true 9/10 model then you are replaceable. I doubt you naturally slept with 10 women last year with your actions. Do you want to be with a model or not?

It’s really not that complicated.