Stood up ROYALLY

[horaholic]

a womans decision making process is like her emotions. it is like an ocean.

You mean polluted?

 

[mrRuckus]

Just go a couple months of ignoring her and then remove her from myspace. It won't be viewed as a fit of anger or anything if it just happens out of the blue well after any transgressions.

 

[STR8UP]

FYI.....she texted me "Merry Christmas" today, to which I did not respond. It was probably a mass text, but I'm sure she had to push the select button by my name to send it to me.

I think this girl really got to you and hurt you and you are actually thinking that your actions will hurt her back or that she will really care about it in the long terms. The reality is that as you correctly said it yourself "you are at the bottom of the totem pole" to her.

First off, I do not believe that I am "at the bottom" of her totem pole. Far from it. I am actually closer to the TOP, but unfortunately this isn't any good to me because no matter how high I am, if there is someone who is HIGHER, my status means nothing.

Secondly, I am not "hurt". Disappointed, disillusioned, saddened....yea...but NOT HURT.

You can take my post however you like, but it honestly is water on a duck's back for me. I'm simply letting everyone know the score.

And yes, she is nothing more than a 22 yr old CHILD. She is spontaneous to the point of damaging relationships. If she sees a shiny object in the distance she reaches out for it regardless of the consequences.

STR8UP, you started with the right ideas, but that last post is really no different than the idea of sending a girl that dumped you a lump of coal. The point of "walking away" is not to teach the girl a lesson or to set boundaries, it's to WALK AWAY. Because she's simply not worth your time.

I agree. My only thing is that I don't have ANY issues with calling women out or reprimanding them for poor behavior, but you must have LEVERAGE for this to work. I still have leverage with this chick, so it is tempting to want to use it to my advantage.

I think I'm going to have to take my own advice here and go with the ""When in doubt.....do NOTHING" philosophy.

This b!tch disrespected me, but in the end what is in my best interest? Ignoring her ass, most likely.

The problem with women is that no matter how bad they screw you over, they always have a way to justify it to themselves and their friends. Doesn't do much good to call her out if she has no guilt or remorse.

Keto, you make great points, but you have to account for the fact that a woman's interest level directly plays into this.

It's not about pouting or anything. It's about realizing when you are truly powerless over a woman's emotions/logic, and saving some of your dignity by avoiding any sort of a show of caring.

What you have to understand is that I am NOT opposed to calling a woman out for poor behavior. I am opposed to trying to reason with a person who is not capable of understanding reason. If you have no leverage in the relationship (if she doesn't care what you think) then she will be utterly incapable of understanding reason, and by opening your mouth all you are doing is trying to bail the Titanic while the last life raft floats past.

At this point, there's little reason for Str8up to say anything to her. But to say that saying anything to a girl who pulls a no call, no show would make you a pathetic loser is one ridiculous and two is really saying, "I'm afraid to call a girl out, she might think bad about me."

Dude....it has nothing to do with being afraid of anything. You keep saying that if you have no value you have nothing to lose in calling her out, for better or worse, and I say you DO have something to lose. What's going to happen is instead of simply having no interest in you, she will get an EGO boost and look at you as lower than low. That's what we mean when we say you are "handing over your dignity". She is the one who cares the least, and here you are trying to MAKE her care. THAT is what is pathetic.

The problem is that guys like STR8 have no defined "law".
Unless a man has assembled a clear set of rules and ethical requirements of himself and others, life becomes a rollercoaster of 'management by crisis' ..one petty crisis after another.

Hence the frequent posts from STR8....

No, I DO have defined laws. My mistake with this one was assuming that I could bend them because of her past interest level. My other "flaw" is that being the social observer that I am, I like to take advantage of situations like this where I realize what is going on and letting them continue while trying to manipulate them to see what happens.

 

[ketostix]

Dude....it has nothing to do with being afraid of anything. You keep saying that if you have no value you have nothing to lose in calling her out, for better or worse, and I say you DO have something to lose. What's going to happen is instead of simply having no interest in you, she will get an EGO boost and look at you as lower than low. That's what we mean when we say you are "handing over your dignity". She is the one who cares the least, and here you are trying to MAKE her care. THAT is what is pathetic.

You have to put this in proper context. In some contexts I'd agree with you. As an extreme example, if you just met a girl and she only tentatively agreed to plans and then cancelled on you and you made an issue of it. However, if a woman talks all week about going out then pulls a no call, no show, telling her you don't have further dealings with anyone that pulls that kind of crappy behavior does not give her an ego boost. I don't purport to be able to read a woman's mind in every situation but as I said before I know this from experience. She gets an ego boost from being able to stand you up and suffer no immediate reprecussions too. The end result, as I said over and over, is you are going to be indifferent to her anyway. And I don't believe your value is lowered by first telling her behavior didn't meet your expectations.

Besides other posters gave reasons for indifference being so she'll contact you again later, etc. I don't want her to contact me again under that dynamic. I don't know why some people are so ardent about indifference. If she can spin being properly called out as you being low she can spin you ignoring her as you being pouty, pathetic and low too.

If you think about it, it's true that a lot of people use indifference for reasons that really are because they're afraid to call a woman out or at least for reasons close enough to it if you read between the lines. I was responding to other people in this thread in general besides you anyway.

As I said before, some guys want to say there's only one way to handle situations like this and there's only one way a woman can and will interpret his actions, but I don't see it that way. I will say this much, you'd be surprised what women "think" is acceptable behavior until someone tells her differently.

 

[jophil28]

I will say this much, you'd be surprised what women "think" is acceptable behavior until someone tells her differently.

Or until the tables are turned and she is the recipient of the same behavior.

 

[STR8UP]

You have to put this in proper context. In some contexts I'd agree with you. As an extreme example, if you just met a girl and she only tentatively agreed to plans and then cancelled on you and you made an issue of it. However, if a woman talks all week about going out then pulls a no call, no show, telling her you don't have further dealings with anyone that pulls that kind of crappy behavior does not give her an ego boost.

This whole thing revolves around the fact that a woman who has respect/interest would not do such a thing in the first place. So if she doesn't respect you and her interest in you is not high enough, there is nothing that you can do (verbally) to "teach her a lesson", because she will rationalize away all wrong doing.

Would you agree that a chick who does something like this is nearly incapable of feeling remorse or guilt for this type of action?

Any time I have EVER confronted a woman on poor behavior, all I have ever gotten was a bunch of excuses. I have never gotten a SINCERE apology from a woman, even one who still had decent interest in me where I was laying down the law.

So if a woman who actually DOES have interest in you is nearly incapable of owning up to her indiscretions, do you think that a woman with little or no interest in you is going to see what she did wrong? Does it benefit you to call her out? No, all it does is validate her denial and help her shift the blame even MORE. Plus it strokes her ego to know that you cared enough about the outcome of the interaction to get upset.

I don't know why some people are so ardent about indifference. If she can spin being properly called out as you being low she can spin you ignoring her as you being pouty, pathetic and low too.

The other thing you have to account for is the fact that a woman's imagination is her worst enemy.

When you have no leverage with a woman and you confront her, you get the scenario that I outlined above. The woman walks away thinking you are a loser, having laid blame on something or someone else, with a nice little puff in her sails knowing that she could get a reaction from a man. "The possessive stalker WANTS me! I'm so hot!"

On the other hand, if you simply let it go, the worst case is that she feels INDIFFERENCE toward you, and if she DID place any value on her relationship with you, her mind will wander and maybe, just MAYBE she might feel a little tinge of regret for having made a poor decision that caused you deny her of any more of that much needed attention. Essentially, you at least hold your value in her eyes, if not you increase it, which allows you to walk away with your dignity knowing that you left her wondering. Trust me, she isn't thinking that you are pouty or pathetic unless you VERBALIZE something to her.

I will never again hand over my dignity, especially not to a woman who has proven herself worthless to me.

If you think about it, it's true that a lot of people use indifference for reasons that really are because they're afraid to call a woman out or at least for reasons close enough to it if you read between the lines. I was responding to other people in this thread in general besides you anyway.

I doubt that most men are afraid to call a woman out. I know that I used to do it all too often and the only time it serves a purpose is to set boundaries with a woman you are involved with, NOT one who you are cutting out of your life.

Or until the tables are turned and she is the recipient of the same behavior.

Don't make the mistake of assuming that women are highly capable of making that sort of a connection. Fact is, when she rationalizes away her behavior (which is what they do almost all of the time) she becomes all but incapable of learning anything from that experience.

The only way to teach a woman is through a system of rewards and punishments. And words bounce off of them like bullets off of superman.

 

[guru1000]

For as much Time and Energy you have wasted discussing this girl through several threads, you could have sieved through another 50 women.

The issue isn't how you should have responded but rather why are you not sieving through the numbers ??

Honestly Str8up, a young guy like you making money, should be dating every weekend and abusing women.

Come on playboy, step it up.

 

[jophil28]

No, I DO have defined laws. My mistake with this one was assuming that I could bend them because of her past interest level.

NO you do not have defined 'laws'. You have weak "guidelines" which are composed of mushy 'relativist' granola .
Even worse, you are willing to abandon these whenever the whiff of estrogen gets in your nostrils.

You just got played by a junior chica because you have no strong internal compass, and you have been gullible enough to believe the philosophies and ideologies of hedonism, pragmatism, subjectivism, and few other hippy drippy notions which firmly belong back in your first two undergrad years.

 

[slaog]

I will say this much, you'd be surprised what women "think" is acceptable behavior until someone tells her differently.

Thats a good point. In todays society women must be confused about how to behave. They have to be. Turn on the TV and all sorts of behaviour is being promoted. Years ago there were rules everybody understood.


So it's up to the man to show them his rules. Same with chrildren. Unless you tell them the rules they won't know what to do.

 

[cordoncordon]

If this girl only knew how much time and energy you are wasting on her str8up. She would think to herself this guy is obsessed with me.

She's a 22 year old GIRL who has low IL. Move on and stop wasting your time even THINKING about her.

Drop her from myspace, don't drop her from myspace. Who gives a Fvck. If it bothers you to look at her when you log on, then drop her. Or it doesn't, then don't. At this point it doesn't matter because you should have no more contact with her. By even caring if you should drop her or not means that you still do......care.

You are better than this.

 

[DJDamage]

Any time I have EVER confronted a woman on poor behavior, all I have ever gotten was a bunch of excuses. I have never gotten a SINCERE apology from a woman, even one who still had decent interest in me where I was laying down the law.

Then you should drop these women.

There is no excuse of bad behaviour aka low interest behaviour.

Any woman that is justifying bad behaviour will continue her bad behaviour and will have even less respect for you.

Don't tolerate bullsh1t and just walk away, there is plenty of fish in the sea.

 

[Knight's Cross]

OK the whole, "Do you tell them they're wrong, displaying improper character, etc." Yes, you do. You do ONLY when you are calm and relaxed. You don't tell them you are mad, pissed off, etc. You tell them you are Disappointed in them. Whether they get the message, grow, change, or deflect it is irrelevent. The whole point is it's for you and CLOSURE. You then delete all reference, act cordial if you bump into them and MOVE ON.

The whole failure here is STR8UP has not previously done that, until he learns that 1 (or as some posters have offered 2 strikes and you are out). He will continue to recieve other than acceptable behavior. Whether she's a FB or someone that you are looking at as LTR material, there have got to be some CLEAR boundaries that you will or will not accept. Until you define yourself, and your limits, you will always be setup for possible failure.

SO STR8UP, howabout this. 2009, the year you will accept no Bull$hit from women? PERIOD. Why do I recommend that? Well because for me Knight's Cross, 2008 was the year of accepting no BS from women. Ohh sure I had less interaction, I didn't get as much tail, etc. That's not the point. The point was I was able to build my career up better, have closer ties to my family, and was spiritually and mentally in a better place to interact with the women that I CHOSE to spend effort with. It amazes me when I look back the difference. Allowing women to "get to you" can cause untold hours of your life to be LOST forever. Don't accept that.

Let this be your best year for yourself ever STR8UP!

KC

 

[STR8UP]

Some of you guys are missing the point here.

I'm not taking up a bunch of excess time and energy ruminating over some chick. I know it LOOKS that way, but I post this because of my interest in LEARNING from experiences and hearing other people's opinions about them. I'm not taking up my social time posting about this broad when i should be "sarging". This week alone I went downtown on Tuesday night, went to two holiday parties on Wednesday, went to visit my family on christmas, tonight I'm doing a work party, and tomorrow I will probably be going out as well.

Posting about this interaction is a "hobby" of sorts for me, just as some of the things that I do that go beyond the scope of being a "DJ" are to create various scenarios to see how they play out. It's much more fun being in OZ when you know the wizard is behind the curtain.....

OK the whole, "Do you tell them they're wrong, displaying improper character, etc." Yes, you do. You do ONLY when you are calm and relaxed. You don't tell them you are mad, pissed off, etc. You tell them you are Disappointed in them.

I have done exactly that. In my experience it is almost one and the same. Women HATE to be called out on their behavior. That's why this chick is hiding from me now. Last time I was cool as a cucumber and told her that I was "disappointed". She went into some diatribe about how she hates to feel like her actions are being judged. Well no sh!t they are toots, you're auditioning for MY time too ya know....

Point is, she DID have a reaction to what I said to her, almost to the point where it seemed like she was a puppy dog with her tail between her legs, but it didn't accomplish any more than if I had blown up in her face, and it accomplished LESS than if the next day I had simply ignored her dozens of calls, texts, IM's and pleading voicemails and let another one of her friends drive her back home and cut off contact with her then.

That's the reason why we are here. I THOUGHT that I had gotten the point across to her by telling her how disappointed I was. WRONG. Didn't do a goddamned thing.

 

[decades]

you're still playing "games" with her. you are ignoring her, she is "hiding" from you. but it's just a game. like two children who both know they will eventually be "friends" again but one of you has to break down first and swallow your pride. You still keep her on your friends list because You aren't done with her yet. you will be in contact soon enough and it won't be long before you two "schedule" something again, and it won't be long after that until you are once again frustrated and maligned by this 22 year old you can't quite figure out. You've gotten countless pieces of advice here to drop It, drop her, but you won't. If you were done with her, you would just delete her and chalk it up as a life lesson. You won't do that though. imo you are obsessed with her, despite your Protestations to the contrary.

 

[STR8UP]

If you were done with her, you would just delete her and chalk it up as a life lesson. You won't do that though. imo you are obsessed with her, despite your Protestations to the contrary.

I'm not going to jump back on this merry-go-round.

I've said it countless times....I AM NOT AND HAVE NOT BEEN OBSESSED WITH ANY WOMAN. I post because it fascinates me more than anything. The people get the wrong idea and we can't even have a decent discussion.

I think it's time to take a break from SS again.

 

[Luminescence]

I don't see why people have a problem with this subject. If you don't enjoy discussing the inner workings of the feminine mind, there's are plenty of other threads on this site.
And why is it so hard to understand that some of us actually enjoy talking about this stuff purely for it's own sake.

 

[guru1000]

The people get the wrong idea and we can't even have a decent discussion.

I think it's time to take a break from SS again.

Point being there is nothing to discuss and no dynamics at play here. The girl has low IL in you. What other end result could possibly happen?

Now if you were dating this girl and she had shown consistent respectful behavior and then she flaked, we could discuss the dynamics.

 

[jophil28]

I don't see why people have a problem with this subject. If you don't enjoy discussing the inner workings of the feminine mind, there's are plenty of other threads on this site.
And why is it so hard to understand that some of us actually enjoy talking about this stuff purely for it's own sake.

The feminine mind is like a bucket of beach worms, all with ADHD.
What is there to discuss ?. The real issue is not how the feminine mind works, the answer to that is simple - like a wriggling bucket of worms.
The real issue here is how to train OUR minds to work more maturely and more productively and how to improve our lives in our relationships with women.

In this case SRT8 insists that this whole thread is his way or exploring his interest in feminine behavior.
I suggest that this is pointless . He needs to explore HIS motivations in tolerating the endless examples of tacky behavior from women whom he claims are "into him" , but act as if they are not.
He knows the words to write here - he just does not transform them into congruent action in his own life.

Perhaps this is a good opportunity to re-examine his belief that "perception is reality". IT is not, and his experiences demonstrate that one's perception of a woman's IL and attraction toward you are frequently challenged and proved false by her subsequent behavior.
HE has been hijacked by his perceptions of their IL and not the reality of their attraction (or lack of it ) which leads them to act accordingly.

HE knows better- he needs to DO better.

 

[Jeffst1980]

STR8UP, you might be better served to make a new thread that deals with calling women out in general, since I think that's the real dilemma you wanted to focus on here. Otherwise, this thread is going to continue to be filled with posts about why you should've known better.

As for calling women out, I would agree that there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. It's much more effective to calmly explain to them why their actions were unacceptable in private than to tear them a new one in public, obviously. I'm not so sure that it is effective to call out a low interest girl at ALL, however. I understand that it is wrong from a common courtesy standpoint that such women feel perfectly fine with standing up a guy or not returning phone calls, but realize that every moment you spend trying to serve "justice" is a wasted moment. Your job as a man is to filter women, and such low interest women actually do you the favor of filtering themselves. If a girl has low IL, you're not going to change her future behavior by playing Cap'n "Lecture-a-ho."

The part that sucks is that it's REALLY hard to get slighted or to have your social value damaged without having the desire to do SOMETHING to rectify the situation. However, there are some cases where the correct response is to do nothing. I would say that if a girl OVERTLY disrespects you (i.e. puts you down in public), then you need to speak up and calmly lay down the law. If its a PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE act of disrespect (i.e. standing you up), you're better off not even acknowledging it. To acknowledge such a thing actually does more harm to your social value, because you are reacting to something she DIDN'T do.

The thing is, a girl that isn't interested isn't really passing a judgement on you, so it's nothing to be ashamed of. I've gotten fake numbers before from 6's. I've also nailed 9s and 10s--so who should I trust for my validation? In the end, it doesn't matter, and you shouldn't need validation from anyone. It's a numbers game, so you're going to have to learn to take rejection without wanting to get even.

Of course, in a relationship of any kind you should be calling out bad behavior and setting boundaries from the getgo. In this respect, you CHOOSE the way you will be treated.

 

[STR8UP]

I'm not so sure that it is effective to call out a low interest girl at ALL, however. I understand that it is wrong from a common courtesy standpoint that such women feel perfectly fine with standing up a guy or not returning phone calls, but realize that every moment you spend trying to serve "justice" is a wasted moment.

That's the whole point I was trying to make. If she doesn't value your opinion of her, your words have no leverage.

Lets say you go out on a date with a chick, all goes well and she agrees to a second date. Second date goes well, you make out in the car later. Third date she calls an hour before and cancels. You give her the benefit of the doubt, and set it up again. This time she's no call no show.

Do you think for a second this chick cares what you think? Of course not, she's got a BBD going on and your opinion of her means squat. Trying to call her out is futile and makes you look weak to her and feel weak to yourself.

Lets say you have been dating a chick for a couple of months. Things are going well, but one night she was supposed to be at your place at 10pm and she shows up at 2:30 without so much as a phone call. Her interest could be slipping, but in this case chances are she VALUES your opinion of her.

In this case, you calmly let her know that this is unacceptable behavior and you withdraw some attention to reinforce this and make her work to get you back.

In my situation it's a little different than both of these. I'm dealing with a young, impulsive chick who had a sky high interest level in me at one point. We fukked. She got REALLLY upset when she couldn't "be my girl" and knew that I was banging other chicks.

She went on with her life but we kept in contact. I didn't have much to go off of to gauge her current interest level, as she was in school 1000 miles away. She moves back closer to where I live, and starts talking about us getting together. I figure, hell, I'll spin her as a plate, she's AN IMPULSIVE COLLEGE CHICK who is going to be spinning her own plates, so it's a win/win.

Her best friend has no idea that we are even talking, and happens to tell her that I'm banging another chick, and she gets pissed.

So with this one, I KNOW she still places value on my opinion of her. I still have LEVERAGE which I could use however I like. I just don't think it's productive to do so other than just to see what kind of buttons I can push.

But it all goes back to my theory on when and if it is appropriate to use WORDS as weapons or "teaching tools" toward women. This is one of those cases where I COULD, but the question is SHOULD I?

She texted me this morning "Sorry would be an understatement...."

Now as I ignore her she's going to freak out like she did last time and blow up my phone, email, Myspace, etc. I could play it out for awhile then have a little fun with it by "putting her in her place", but really what's the point?

The part that sucks is that it's REALLY hard to get slighted or to have your social value damaged without having the desire to do SOMETHING to rectify the situation.

I know that feeling well. I had to suppress it when a chick a couple of years ago left me for a "provider" type since I wouldn't "put myself out there". She really did diss me by slowly distancing herself instead of being up front about it, but i understood that it was all part of the game and I resisted the urge to give her a piece of my mind, and I know i am better off today for it. Hell, I would even give it a 50/50 chance that I could hit it again down the road at some point just BECAUSE I kept my cool.

One of her last comments to me (when she was in town for her bachelorette party) was ""Wow, you must really hate me" to which i responded "Of course not. Why would you think such a thing?"

The evening ended with her laying on my arm in a bed at my buddy's house with a few other people in the room.

I eventually got up and told everyone goodbye. I walked out the door with my dignity well intact. What a great feeling.