Solutions for 7 year LTR with 2 kids on the rocks - she doesn't know how she feels about me

[Pierce Manhammer]

She is acting out.

She has picked the absolute worst time to whine and inject doubt into the relationship.

She is being selfish and self-indulgent.

The true mettle of someone shows when the chips are down. It seems everything was ok as long as she felt financially secure and lived in a nice home etc. Suddenly, in the face of a wee bit of adversity, she pulls this?

What about “we’re in this together”?

This is the classic “I’m not haaaaaaaappy…” phase @7 years like clockwork. It’s so common it’s cliché.

She’s acting like a child. She’d be for the streets if there were no kids involved.

The bottom line, by doing this, she should have devalued herself to you severely. This shows a weakness of character in the face of a minor setback.

The idea of breaking up is hard all the way around. But if you initiate, you control the process.

I think you’ll end up there anyway; time on your SMV clock is just ticking away now.

best of luck

 

[Giraffe123]

In other words, she dropped the nuclear bomb on you and the relationship. After 7 years and 2 kids, just because you're moving town and she's changing jobs, that's her response?

You said you're both in your early 30s, that means you met her when she was 25-26 ... what's her relationship history up to that point? I find it hard to believe that 7 years went smoothly and then suddenly, boom.


A single mom in her early 30s with 2 small kids has a cratered SMV, what are you talking about here?

I'm not saying it's a rational response, but there are factors beyond just us.

We met when she was around 24, a few mid to long term boyfriends before that.

Yes its diminished but she's still attractive and personable enough to meet someone else, or at least she will feel that is the case I imagine

 

[pipeman84]

We met when she was around 24, a few mid to long term boyfriends before that.

Well, then why act so surprised when history repeats itself?
Probably the relationship with you lasted longer than the others because she wanted kids. As I said in previous post, I believe there must've been some red flags throughout the 7 years, you probably didn't see them or chose to ignore them.

 

[Giraffe123]

Well, then why act so surprised when history repeats itself?
Probably the relationship with you lasted longer than the others because she wanted kids. As I said in previous post, I believe there must've been some red flags throughout the 7 years, you probably didn't see them or chose to ignore them.

Give me a list of these red flags and I will tell you, but in all honesty, I cannot think of any before this point

 

[pipeman84]

Give me a list of these red flags and I will tell you, but in all honesty, I cannot think of any before this point

The fact she had exes is the biggest red flag, basically a deal breaker for considering serious relationship or worse, kids. Having exes means in essence 2 things: 1. she is not that smart and/or lets her impulses control her when making big decisions such as choosing a mate. This poor judgement/lack of self control will manifest in other areas of life, not just mate selection.
2. she has some deep underlying issues for which there are no visible signs right away (like for instance having lots of tatts and injected lips, getting into ONS, etc), at least not to the average guy. These issues are like a bomb with delayed detonation that manifest in time and that's why the relationships don't last.
The above are facts.
Now you ask me to speculate what happened between you during the 7 years, when it's much easier and helpful if you try to remember yourself. After all, it's your life. A hint: you said this yourself in OP, so deep down you knew there were some problems.

Up until this point there had barely been a single bump in the road, she was down to earth, we had good balance, no such thing as the one but she was by far and away one of the better ones I had come across.

 

[Giraffe123]

I think saying having 2 previous partners is a serious red flag is pretty far fetched, particularly in this day and age, given how far below the average it is.

Having an underlying issue, I am not aware of, but obviously that doesn't mean there isn't one, but would hope it would have surfaced in some form or another before.

As I said previously, before the last month or so, there were 0 flags that I had seen, or even looking back now, can identify

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

@Giraffe123

You will find men with widely divergent opinions on this forum. You will quickly sort out who's who.

Some think that one should only ever marry a vestal virgin.
There are those who believe there are demons that live inside vaginas.
There are those that believe open marriages are OK.
There are those that believe that paying escorts for sex somehow makes them players or authorities on seduction.

The list goes on. Just sift through the wheat and the chaff.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

In other words, she dropped the nuclear bomb on you and the relationship. After 7 years and 2 kids, just because you're moving town and she's changing jobs, that's her response?

You said you're both in your early 30s, that means you met her when she was 25-26 ... what's her relationship history up to that point? I find it hard to believe that 7 years went smoothly and then suddenly, boom.


A single mom in her early 30s with 2 small kids has a cratered SMV, what are you talking about here?

It's never "just that". It's almost always the long slow erosion of respect over time that finally reaches a point where she is no longer attracted to them.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

I appreciate the responses from everyone, I can't respond directly to it all, but will try and provide some further context.

In regards to the general situation:

• We have moved because our eldest child is nearing school age and we didn't want to send them to school in the city we lived in. We have moved away from family and friends and in all honesty most of our support network, which has definitely been a bigger shock than we expected. It is the first time we have had to fit our life around the kids than the other way round
• She is taking what she sees as a step back in her career, she is a teacher and has had to give up a pastoral role and the accompanying salary in our move, which has hit her harder than I think she anticipated
  • I also earn a significant amount more than her (more than double) if that makes any difference.
  • Whilst we aren't poor (my salary is very decent) with the timing of the kids, childcare etc. and other things we aren't rolling in cash to do everything we would like at the drop of a hat
• We are in the process of selling our flat, which has now dragged on for about 3 months longer than it should have, and as a result we have had to move into suboptimal rented accommodation which is a step back for both of us
• A concern is her best friend, who got divorced (she initiated) two years ago with some similarities (LTR 10+ years, just moved to a new house) but also several differences (no kids, no sex, covid took away the 'excitement' they got from traveling). They have been friends for about twice as long as I have known my girlfriend, and she is now much closer (physically) to us post move. The last two years she has been leaning heavily on my other half for support, but I can't help but notice the last couple of months she has been coming out the other side. To her credit she has always been a staunch advocate of mine, including when my partner basically thought I was a bit too much of a c**t when we first started dating. Whilst I don't think she is or would be advocating our separation, I can't help but feel there is a subconscious element to it (I'm sure we all know having a divorced friend increases chances of divorce by 75%), but I also don't know what I can do to reduce this impact. I wouldn't be able to get her to cut off her friend, and whilst I have made it clear the differences between us, and that I think if she were to talk about it, I would rather she spoke to someone else, not sure what else I can do

Our relationship

• We have always had a great relationship, it came about very naturally, we enjoy each others time, and she is a great mother to our children. We are different to one another but in a way that compliments each other and we both easily integrated into one another's lives and friendship groups, which is usually a good sign. I could go on about the attractiveness, sexual chemistry etc. but I think that can be taken as a given to have got to this point.
• In the past when we have had arguments (although much smaller) she has always backed away and sat on things until they came to the surface, this was probably my biggest frustration with her, so although more serious, it is not entirely out of character.
• This first came to the surface less than a month ago, I can't be more specific than I noticed a slight shift in her behavior, she seemed a bit shorter with me. It was in no way 'toxic' and it was very subtle so it took me a while to raise the topic with her.
• She has admitted that she had been feeling 'off' or 'different' for a bit (maybe a month or so) before I confronted her, but had no idea why, couldn't really explain what the feeling was (the closest she could get was saying she just had no feelings about the future) and hadn't considered it being our relationship until I asked the question. She said she had sort of expected it to blow over and had planned to just carry on until it did. This was around the time of planning the move in earnest, her getting her new job, and realising our flat sale wasn't going to plan. Since we have moved (say about 2 weeks ago, she has said she feels different about me, but again can't explain what she means by that, or why, but again this only occurred after the initial confrontation).
• My initial thought was that given everything going on was that she might be depressed (something I guess I am still clinging to a bit) and that was impacting her mood and feelings
• To her benefit, I think since I first confronted her, she has been honest with me, and consistent with what she has been saying and asking for (time and space to process). She has acknowledged how sh*t it is for me, and that she knows I want to take a different approach, but she feels she can't untangle everything that is going on, along with the potential implications, until it has cleared up. She has asked what I think we can do to speed things up, but I don't really have an obvious option to offer to her (I want to do the 'dating again' stuff without making a fuss about it), and potentially her seeing a therapist to see if she is depressed.
• We have communicated on the issue, there have been times were she has been emotional and I have had to comfort her. Although at times I get in my own head, it is not just a black hole of her demanding and me accepting, we have compromised on things
• When I use the term attack, I guess it sounds quite forceful, I guess what I mean is get an understanding of the problem and resolve.
• As I said in the first post, with a bit of introspection I can say that
  • the relationship has definitely changed since we got together, but that is to be expected. I have always been quite relaxed, and at the start of the relationship it probably benefited me as it came across that I just wasn't that into her. She was much quicker to say she loved me etc. Now in the relationship this 'relaxed' attitude has probably been to my detriment, and I am going to make a concerted effort to be more assertive over the coming weeks and months.
  • We have definitely sat on our laurels in terms of the relationship, with the kids and everything going on, so this is something I think we can work on. The 'adventure' that had been our move and setting up a new life has been dulled by situation and something needs to bridge that gap.

My thought process

• Given all the above context, I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that the exterior influences are having an impact, and combined with taking the foot off the gas in our relationship, it is perhaps not a surprise were we are at
• We have been together 7 years, we have 2 kids, I owe it to myself, the kids and our relationship to at least give her the time she has asked for. In the grand scheme of 7 years, a couple of months is not a lot of time. I understand the risks in this, and I know it cannot be indefinite and that I have to be prepared to walk away, but not yet.
• If she is genuinely struggling with everything, it is my job as the man to suck it up and pull us through (within reason obviously) and I owe her the benefit of the doubt for at least a short period of time.
• In my gut, I do worry that this is terminal and I am accepting of that. That said I won't go down without a fight, but I must know my limits for my own sake and my kids.

The plan

• I will have to continue to be myself for the foreseeable future, whilst making an effort to ensure I am leading rather than following
• Continue to focus on the things that will persist regardless of this relationship, my kids and my health
• Make a concerted effort to reintroduce some excitement and adventure in the mean time, working on the assumption that she needs me to pull her through this
• But also prepare an exit plan, along with a deadline for when I have to break it off

Again the most telling part is that she's choosing to sort through her feelings on her own rather than involving you. Unfortunately this still sounds like 'time and space' is code for 'get my affairs in order before I unplug from your life completely', it rarely means anything else. If she was working to fight for both of you this thread would likely not exist. You've both understandably had a stressful season with things not going to plan, and all you can really tell her is that you believe things will improve and that you expect everyone in the family to work hard for that.

The thing is you shouldn't have to convince her of that belief. That trust in each other to serve the relationship should be mutual and unshakable, since it's the foundation of everything. Preparing the exit plan is a good idea, it'll provide valuable peace of mind so nothing feels unexpected.

Maybe this is the first real shakeup in the relationship and you're finally seeing how she handles some uncertainty and unfortunate events. Decide on what you'll do if she leaves then comes crawling back, since that typically happens with chicks that are really emotional about the relationship and it gets a little rough. Personally I only let them leave once. If she leaves again and tries to come back a second time it's a no out of simple self respect.

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

I think saying having 2 previous partners is a serious red flag is pretty far fetched, particularly in this day and age, given how far below the average it is.

Having an underlying issue, I am not aware of, but obviously that doesn't mean there isn't one, but would hope it would have surfaced in some form or another before.

As I said previously, before the last month or so, there were 0 flags that I had seen, or even looking back now, can identify

You are right, having exes is a ridiculous red flag, however not seeing ANY red flags at all is just as far fetched in my opinion... This person is a human being, they are flawed in their own way just like me, you and everyone else.

Heres a curve ball: If this is a woman with no actual red flags at all, what is she doing with you? Well, you were likely the most accessible valuable male at that time, it is really that simple and its likely this situation is just as simple if the answer isn't glaringly obvious or clear.

 

[Gamisch]

You are right, having exes is a ridiculous red flag, however not seeing ANY red flags at all is just as far fetched in my opinion... This person is a human being, they are flawed in their own way just like me, you and everyone else.

Heres a curve ball: If this is a woman with no actual red flags at all, what is she doing with you? Well, you were likely the most accessible valuable male at that time, it is really that simple and its likely this situation is just as simple if the answer isn't glaringly obvious or clear.

Yup . As "annoying" as @pipeman84 can seemingly be, he is absolutely right.

Its interesting to think how the most redpill man ever would look at your woman.

Only the( stubborn) bluepilled man will sugarcoat these kinds if redflags. When it all comes crashing down suddenly is when those redflags come at play in full effect. That's why we often find ourselves in situations with women that are unfixable.

So ,the redpilled man, or the man who is somewhat aware how women operate wont even expect loyalty and honor from women. The bluepilled man on the other does. And then there are tons of variables important to make it work as we all know. Many bluepilled men deal with a woman whose ACTING like she wants that life, even though she will inevitably show signs of her true self.

Kinda off topic but still on topic.

 

[Dr.Suave]

Say what you will about @pipeman84 (I will even say I dont agree with him 101% of the time) but he puts his money where his mouth is. He is being the change he wants to see in the world. Half the time I get the feeling he´s basically looking out for us.

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

Say what you will about @pipeman84 (I will even say I dont agree with him 101% of the time) but he puts his money where his mouth is. He is being the change he wants to see in the world. Half the time I get the feeling he´s basically looking out for us.

It's just a pretty extreme outlook, I mean I suppose he isn't wrong in terms of finding somebody to have your children but to suggest this post-children is just reductive, the deed is done, especially as a 30 something, good luck upholding this standard, you'll be on some forever alone vibe.

 

[BeExcellent]

That's a choice people make...and it's usually the wrong choice. "Putting the kids first".

No. You put each other first. If people actually want to put the kids interests first, they would put the relationship first so the kids have a healthy, stable, happy place to grow up.

Date nights, sex and spending time with each other does a lot more than most think for a relationship.

Kids don't need to change that, people simply allow them to because it's easier that way.

Advice from the old lady:

Here’s what you do: Get a sitter. Take her out. Bang her. Laugh. Have fun. The last 4 years y’all have been pregnant and with little kids. Boring! Prioritize your relationship or you will no longer have a relationship.

That means insist. Never accept excuses or make excuses yourself of “Kids come first”…..

No. Kids do NOT come first.

My granny, born in 1909, married twice, widowed twice, lived to age 97, was extremely wise about marriage (OP is essentially married) and was successfully married for decades two times.

Her philosophy was this:

Top priority is being a lover to your husband. This is sacred between you as sex is reserved for your spouse only.

Second priority is being a great friend and partner to the husband, a confidant, a supporter, an asset.

Third priority is parenthood.

Now why is parenthood 3rd? Because it is temporary in the great grand scheme of things. You commit to a life partner, that’s forever until one of you croaks. Kids take 18 years to grow up. That’s less than 2 decades. While you raise children you demonstrate those priorities above? Guess what? You are going to raise young people who understand what a good relationship is because they observed one growing up!

You teach your kids what a great relationship is by having a great relationship yourself. That means lovers, friends, parents…..Period. So what if the kids whine. They are kids. They are NOT in charge, you are.

And you being in charge provides a security they cannot feel if you refuse to be the grown ups.

 

[Giraffe123]

I'm sure you will all be thrilled to hear I was wrong, found messages on her phone if her planning to cheat. She initiated. Said she doesn't love me anymore. Was my hands and move on.

She didn't think that she would be able to come back from where she was feeling.

On a separate note, guessing you can delete **** from this site? I don't want this as a reminder to go back to

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

I'm sure you will all be thrilled to hear I was wrong, found messages on her phone if her planning to cheat. She initiated. Said she doesn't love me anymore. Was my hands and move on.

On a separate note, guessing you can delete **** from this site? I don't want this as a reminder to go back to

Not thrilled at all, everyone here has likely been cheated on, time to get on your purpose and self develop.

 

[Giraffe123]

Not thrilled at all, everyone here has likely been cheated on, time to get on your purpose and self develop.

What are the next steps here?

What can I do for the kids and myself?

 

[SW15]

all of this essentially relies on her coming to her senses

I guess my questions are:

• Has anyone been here before? What worked, what didn't?
• What can I do to get the power back?
• When is it time to just call it quits?

She feels the relationship has run its course more than likely and all that other stuff is her trying to figure out a way to slowly pull away from you.

This relationship is likely ending whether it's today or a year from now if you try and hold onto it.

Sorry to have bad news but any time a woman comes to you with that it's pretty much the beginning of the end.

What are the next steps here?

What can I do for the kids and myself?

I have not been married and am childless.

I think now is the time to call it quits. Find a lawyer as soon as possible and work out the legalities around your co-parenting relationship. Perhaps you can have an amicable co-parenting relationship in the future.

The relationship is not salvageable at this point.

 

[Gamisch]

I'm sure you will all be thrilled to hear I was wrong, found messages on her phone if her planning to cheat. She initiated. Said she doesn't love me anymore. Was my hands and move on.

She didn't think that she would be able to come back from where she was feeling.

On a separate note, guessing you can delete **** from this site? I don't want this as a reminder to go back to

Thats really unfortunate to hear bro.

As shameful as it feels, we've ALL ended up here due to something like this. Yiu are and stay anonymous, dont worry about it. Threads like this are great for learning and confirming what we already know.

I tend to get into beefs and internet scuffles at times but THIS is why I prefer the harsh truth , even if its "yet only theory " over sugar coating shyte.

I geuss everyone saw this one coming. When I saw you replied to this thread I KNEW something was up, can't explain it.

I've asked you before: do you have people close to you where you can stay? If so MOVE NOW!

One general thought for lurkers and learners; whenever a woman goes from "loving" you to ANYTHING else, assume there's someone else in the picture. Always. I've literally heard em all now: attraction to unsure to a break or space to spreading my wings to just a friend.

REDPILL THE F UP NOW fELLAS!!!!

 

[AttackFormation]

I'm sure you will all be thrilled to hear I was wrong, found messages on her phone if her planning to cheat. She initiated. Said she doesn't love me anymore. Was my hands and move on.

She didn't think that she would be able to come back from where she was feeling.

On a separate note, guessing you can delete **** from this site? I don't want this as a reminder to go back to

Any veteran of this forum will be unphased by this revelation, and we dont cheer for the destruction of a family. Her reluctant intimacy and selfish sentiments matches exactly how guys here tend to describe unfaithful womens' behavior, and is why many of us suggested that as likely. I wouldve done so too if you didnt say you were adamant that she was faithful, but in hindsight that was an indulgent mistake.