Solutions for 7 year LTR with 2 kids on the rocks - she doesn't know how she feels about me

[BackInTheGame78]

Yes, I've been there before. What worked: patience and good listening, injecting adventure into the relationship. What didn't work: avoiding/ignoring red flags hoping they would go away off their own accord; getting impatient; demands/ultimatums; quarrelling; trivialising matters.

Inject adventure. You have two small children, your romantic life is totally ****ed up by the attention siphoned away by the children. Your lives become humdrum. In order to get your dominance up and your power back, you have to organise an adventure; something you and her will both enjoy but that comes as a surprise to her.
One thing that worked in several LTRs is to take dancing lessons with her. I prefer Tango / Milonga, where the man has to lead and the woman has to follow. Many men are afraid to (learn how to) dance, because you will feel like a fool as you trip over your own feet, but she will adore you for persisting and showing your vulnerability in attempting something you haven't done before.

Relationships require more time and effort than most married couples expect and it requires mutual effort to succeed. I don't know when it's time to call it quits, but young children need both their parents so I would put more effort in than her. For several reasons, but mostly you will feel better if she's the one who throws the towel in the ring, and she will feel like **** for being the first to give up on the relationship when you still wanted to work on it. Her mental state (I failed at keeping the relationship) might make it easier getting her to agree to custody and alimony settlements.

If you love her and the kids, don't throw in the towel before she does.

That's a choice people make...and it's usually the wrong choice. "Putting the kids first".

No. You put each other first. If people actually want to put the kids interests first, they would put the relationship first so the kids have a healthy, stable, happy place to grow up.

Date nights, sex and spending time with each other does a lot more than most think for a relationship.

Kids don't need to change that, people simply allow them to because it's easier that way.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Bless the Baby Sitters for they keep your sex life alive!

Just wait til they go to bed or wake up early.

 

[DreamAgain]

Well objectively I think there is nothing you can do here. You can let her walk but as a single mom of 2 kids, which she will probably hide on her dates, eventually she will realize the grass is not greener and beg you to take her back.

Whether you should do this complicates things because of the kids, I guess, there were always red flags that may have been subtle earlier that you probably ignored but hey it happens to the best of us.

 

[Glassguy]

OP isn't married, he said he was going to propose but said that it off the table for now.

Even better. No divorce. Just leave

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Even better. No divorce. Just leave

Not quite that easy when they have 2 kids together.

 

[Gamisch]

Lots of great advice. I just wanna add this. First of all I'm a father too. Been here at this exact point.

Kids are NOT a reason for a woman to prolong a relationship if she ain't feeling it.

To us men they might be. If a man would make a thread saying(never happens ) " I have kids ,house together ect but its ME who wants to leave" ,everyone would probably tell him it's irresponsible to leave her with the kids and just to chase women. Women are different.

At this point you have to apply three different strategies at once;
1. As @AmsterdamAssassin said, try the rekindling game. Why wouldn't you? You have nothing to lose at this point. For all we know you MIGHT save as much as possible.

2. Meanhwile you still gotta plan your exit. Just in case...assume that most reactions unfortunately hold some truth to them.

We've all been there bro..nothing happens without a reason. Something must've triggered her to look differently at this relationship, BUT its a damned complex and tiring game trying to find out what. So you wanna view this situation AS SOBER as possible . At least THINK about an exit strategy, and imagine in detail what it looks like.

3. Keep working on yourself. At this point its not even a 50 50 situation anymore. When women say things like this she's entering the point of no return. Its even more painful when there are kids involved. Start your recovery phase now. You already started hitting the gym. Good. Now , as akward as it may be try to at least make some form of contact with other women. I don't say sleep with them, just ...run hame on them. Stay sharp ,or get sharp again.

4. I just came up with a forth reason. Assuming you're applying all of the above:

Be dead honest. Sit her down. Ask her what's going on. A heart to heart. Be ready for some perhaps painful moments. At this point imo you deserve to know the ins and outs of her motives or lack off. If she refuses to talk or anything like that, that's still an answer. Apply 2, the exit strategy. As @parabellum said , tell her you are oke with going your own way, and you just want (LEGALLY!!!!!) signed papers that allow you to always have access to your kids. (That's why I say PREPARE everything BEFORE you sit her down!! You should almost be able to leave the next day ,thats how well prepared you should be. You should already know what laws will benefit you or work against you. If you dont know call a lawyer TODAY!)

Inform asap every person/all people's you are so close to that you can stay over for some time, if necessary.

As I said it's a lot . But you can't sit back and play the waiting game anymore, there water on the deck already and if you dont act you'll drown. Don't reckon her to be "sensible " or " rational " . Its passed 50 /50 now and even if it was, you don't wanna play these maybe games with women. Never.

 

[kookdekoo]

Speaking from my own experience:
Be prepared mentally that it's over. My ex spouse put me in exactly same ( no affection, duty sex , no intimacy ) place and it was over after a couple of years for me. My life's worst years.
Make plans for a future without her. Set a mental deadline as to how long you are prepared to live in a limbo like this. Come the deadline, YOU break it up rather than waiting for her to.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Now I understand this gives me a period of time with which to get my act together, I can appreciate that the relationship has changed somewhat since it started (I was young and ****y and not really interested in her to start with), to me now being a father and in hindsight I've probably relinquished more of the 'power' than I should have. By this I mean I've been pretty easy going and let her lead on the stuff that she thinks matters, whilst putting my foot down when I think I need to. Given this news, obviously feels even more so out of control on my behalf and struggling with what I can do to bring things back under my control.

Don’t be too hard on yourself. Relationships change as time goes on. It would be completely unrealistic to expect a relationship to be as fresh and exciting after seven years as it was on day one.

I’ve always believed that the only reason to be in a really long-term relationship (i.e. 5+ years) is for the sake of the kids. That kind of a relationship is not supposed to be “fun”. The idea is to provide a stable and nurturing environment for the children. And that means putting them first. It doesn’t sound like your girlfriend is prepared to do that.

 

[Slowhandluke]

At this point you have to apply three different strategies at once;
1. As @AmsterdamAssassin said, try the rekindling game. Why wouldn't you? You have nothing to lose at this point. For all we know you MIGHT save as much as possible.

Rekindling the game? You wouldn't/shouldn't because you aren't a monkey. You are not in this relationship for just her. You are in it for the both of you. You cannot be the only one doing the heavy lilifting in a relationship. Even if you change and make her happy THIS time, what about next time? She doesn't understand it's not just about her, it's about you too. Relationships take two people to cultivate. You cannot "hold frame" forever. If she cannot understand this, you have to find someone who does.

Once you give into a crying baby, they will see how far they can take it until you inevitably break. Just human nature.

 

[Scaramouche]

Hi Giraffe,
I have seen this many times,IF there is no one else in this equation and your priority is the Kids,just hang in there,don't argue be nice.....I would guess something has happened in her life like new Divorcee friends some Guy at work making a pass,that has deeply unsettled her....For the downhill progression to move on to the next level she will need private time with these influencers,don't give it to her,with two kids she can't go out without your co-operation don't give that to her....Give her sympathy and affection,emphasise that with young kids things are not easy for either of you and you will both see it through...Know that without independant money or a branch to swing to you Society will gang rape you....Stay calm and hope for the best.

 

[Gamisch]

Rekindling the game? You wouldn't/shouldn't because you aren't a monkey. You are not in this relationship for just her. You are in it for the both of you. You cannot be the only one doing the heavy lilifting in a relationship. Even if you change and make her happy THIS time, what about next time? She doesn't understand it's not just about her, it's about you too. Relationships take two people to cultivate. You cannot "hold frame" forever. If she cannot understand this, you have to find someone who does.

Once you give into a crying baby, they will see how far they can take it until you inevitably break. Just human nature.

I agree . But yet ,some advice was to try this and I get that too. He still lives in a house with her, has kids with her ect. He cant JUST leave.

Ofcourse you are right. I know that now. When other men tell you it's over, its generally indeed over. Yet ,as was mentioned, there ARE exceptions to the rule, men who managed to turn such a situation around.

That's why I say, prepare for the exit regardless. But we shouldn't dismiss the difficulty of having kids, house bought together, moved to a different city together ect.

Again, I would demand honesty at this point.

 

[Glassguy]

Not quite that easy when they have 2 kids together.

Sure it is. And much easier than divorce

 

[Canadian_Man]

If your lives weren't as interconnected as they are, you might have instead got the "I think we need a break" line (or a break up), rather than what has happened.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

OP:

it’s coming knowledge that once a woman makes a declaration like this. She’s already been thinking about it for six months. She’s ready to monkey branch my friend she’s telling you that she is take her for her word.

If you want to exit this with any modicum of self-respect, you need to blow up the relationship now. I know that this is easier said than done with children hanging in the balance. I’ve been exactly where you are, but I was married.

The truly is nothing you can do right now, except end the relationship- do it in a way that is respectful, confident, and clear. She will respect you for standing up for yourself - something she’s lost.

You also need to think about the relationship you have with your children after the break up presumably you want 50% custody involved and caring father. Part of your responsibility as a father is to show children how a man behaves in a relationship sitting around and being disrespected by a woman does not set a good example for boys or girls.

I ended my marriage before I had planned to, I never looked back. I am happier now than I have been most of my life. You can start again, from scratch, you can do better and show your children what a real, loving and caring relationship with a good woman looks like as a coparenting Dad.

As a single Dad you are MUCH more attractive to women that single moms are to men - that’s the true mindfnck.

If you love your beat life she will try to come back, but you should not let her. She will not learn the lesson and she will have taken a lot of random cawk in the meantime. That’s a nonstarter.

Grab your nuts, and devise a plan to get out. NOW.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

@Giraffe123
You mentioned moving house and her getting a new job. What events coincides most precisely with her mood flip? And what prompted the uproot? I'm guessing you relocated for a job and she's had to come with and find whatever the new location can offer? It's a small town so maybe it seems like a huge downgrade to her in all ways except you making a bit more or you being closer to your work. How much has she tangibly benefitted from this move? How much have you?

If she's had to throw away her social life, hobbies, and work mobility for this move and sees little prospects in the new environment, she may be realizing that the family alone is not fulfilling enough for her.

You talk about grabbing power back and 'attacking' the issue, but have written very few details about what exactly is bothering her. She should feel that she can confide anything in you, and if you've been too utilitarian in your 'attacks' it sounds like she no longer trusts you with her deepest feelings and thoughts, so you're having to settle for vagueness while she tries to sort it out herself. When was the last time she cried on you and you listened to her and chirped with simple sweet things until she felt better or just held her and let her cry it out? Hopefully you'll respond with some examples of deep empathy between you two during such a stressful season.

I sense a deeper issue here that stems from you.
Your post reads as though you see her as a means to an end. You said you 'noticed she was a bit off', what does that mean? It sounds like you're talking about a car engine, not a person.

There is no power you have to win back, this isn't a battle between you and her. You ARE the source of power.

You should focus on reclaiming this abundant mindset and pouring that all over yourself, then her, unconditionally. This can take the form of gifts, thoughtful experiences, spontaneous acts kindness, anything you feel she'd enjoy. You're not doing this to fix anything, you're doing this because you enjoy giving to people, even those that may feel they want to split up with you and leave. If she refuses your gifts you can still practice spreading love and joy to your children and friends. You can still be positive in her presence. You can give her the gift of an amicable break. You can still be undeterred from this joyous state because you're that sure in your resilience and resourcefulness.

Provide yourself a deadline for how long you'll do this if you want because I sense it's not something that comes naturally to you, but use this time as an opportunity to practice finding joy in the act of giving for the sake of giving. Serve yourself until you feel fulfilled to the point that you naturally want to share that fulfillment with someone else, then practice serving others like your girl, kids, and friends or even strangers.

Too much talk here is conditional in nature, I'm guilty of it too. The ideal man is always replenished, always kind, always easy going, always fun, and that relaxed state allows him a creativity for spreading love far and wide. Ideals are not something we can attain, but like stars they show us the way.

Imagine in your mind a limitless spring of clear fresh water. This is your reprieve, a mental place where you go to wash your hands after doing dirty work in the real world. When she says or does something that gets under your skin you come to this spring in your mind and wash yourself clean of any resentment you feel building. You refresh back to the loving laid back state as many times as it takes, until nothing bothers you.

There is nothing she can take that isn't already given to her. If she wants to leave then encourage her to leave from a loving abundant state of mind. You want her to be happy, even if that means not being with you. You'll find happiness and fulfillment regardless of her decision. If she shows indecision then polarize the situation for her and everyone involved in a decisive but loving way. This is what I mean by YOU are the power. Your life will grow and go on regardless, and you will continue to encourage those around you to grow.

And don't assume this will devastate the kids, again your energy throughout will influence everything and is the most powerful force. It could be a blessing in disguise, you really don't know. Whatever you believe is likely to be a self fulfilling prophecy, so believe in a bright future with resilient kids that you will cherish, guide, support, and enjoy for as long as you can no matter what happens.

 

[Giraffe123]

I appreciate the responses from everyone, I can't respond directly to it all, but will try and provide some further context.

In regards to the general situation:

• We have moved because our eldest child is nearing school age and we didn't want to send them to school in the city we lived in. We have moved away from family and friends and in all honesty most of our support network, which has definitely been a bigger shock than we expected. It is the first time we have had to fit our life around the kids than the other way round
• She is taking what she sees as a step back in her career, she is a teacher and has had to give up a pastoral role and the accompanying salary in our move, which has hit her harder than I think she anticipated
  • I also earn a significant amount more than her (more than double) if that makes any difference.
  • Whilst we aren't poor (my salary is very decent) with the timing of the kids, childcare etc. and other things we aren't rolling in cash to do everything we would like at the drop of a hat
• We are in the process of selling our flat, which has now dragged on for about 3 months longer than it should have, and as a result we have had to move into suboptimal rented accommodation which is a step back for both of us
• A concern is her best friend, who got divorced (she initiated) two years ago with some similarities (LTR 10+ years, just moved to a new house) but also several differences (no kids, no sex, covid took away the 'excitement' they got from traveling). They have been friends for about twice as long as I have known my girlfriend, and she is now much closer (physically) to us post move. The last two years she has been leaning heavily on my other half for support, but I can't help but notice the last couple of months she has been coming out the other side. To her credit she has always been a staunch advocate of mine, including when my partner basically thought I was a bit too much of a c**t when we first started dating. Whilst I don't think she is or would be advocating our separation, I can't help but feel there is a subconscious element to it (I'm sure we all know having a divorced friend increases chances of divorce by 75%), but I also don't know what I can do to reduce this impact. I wouldn't be able to get her to cut off her friend, and whilst I have made it clear the differences between us, and that I think if she were to talk about it, I would rather she spoke to someone else, not sure what else I can do

Our relationship

• We have always had a great relationship, it came about very naturally, we enjoy each others time, and she is a great mother to our children. We are different to one another but in a way that compliments each other and we both easily integrated into one another's lives and friendship groups, which is usually a good sign. I could go on about the attractiveness, sexual chemistry etc. but I think that can be taken as a given to have got to this point.
• In the past when we have had arguments (although much smaller) she has always backed away and sat on things until they came to the surface, this was probably my biggest frustration with her, so although more serious, it is not entirely out of character.
• This first came to the surface less than a month ago, I can't be more specific than I noticed a slight shift in her behavior, she seemed a bit shorter with me. It was in no way 'toxic' and it was very subtle so it took me a while to raise the topic with her.
• She has admitted that she had been feeling 'off' or 'different' for a bit (maybe a month or so) before I confronted her, but had no idea why, couldn't really explain what the feeling was (the closest she could get was saying she just had no feelings about the future) and hadn't considered it being our relationship until I asked the question. She said she had sort of expected it to blow over and had planned to just carry on until it did. This was around the time of planning the move in earnest, her getting her new job, and realising our flat sale wasn't going to plan. Since we have moved (say about 2 weeks ago, she has said she feels different about me, but again can't explain what she means by that, or why, but again this only occurred after the initial confrontation).
• My initial thought was that given everything going on was that she might be depressed (something I guess I am still clinging to a bit) and that was impacting her mood and feelings
• To her benefit, I think since I first confronted her, she has been honest with me, and consistent with what she has been saying and asking for (time and space to process). She has acknowledged how sh*t it is for me, and that she knows I want to take a different approach, but she feels she can't untangle everything that is going on, along with the potential implications, until it has cleared up. She has asked what I think we can do to speed things up, but I don't really have an obvious option to offer to her (I want to do the 'dating again' stuff without making a fuss about it), and potentially her seeing a therapist to see if she is depressed.
• We have communicated on the issue, there have been times were she has been emotional and I have had to comfort her. Although at times I get in my own head, it is not just a black hole of her demanding and me accepting, we have compromised on things
• When I use the term attack, I guess it sounds quite forceful, I guess what I mean is get an understanding of the problem and resolve.
• As I said in the first post, with a bit of introspection I can say that
  • the relationship has definitely changed since we got together, but that is to be expected. I have always been quite relaxed, and at the start of the relationship it probably benefited me as it came across that I just wasn't that into her. She was much quicker to say she loved me etc. Now in the relationship this 'relaxed' attitude has probably been to my detriment, and I am going to make a concerted effort to be more assertive over the coming weeks and months.
  • We have definitely sat on our laurels in terms of the relationship, with the kids and everything going on, so this is something I think we can work on. The 'adventure' that had been our move and setting up a new life has been dulled by situation and something needs to bridge that gap.

My thought process

• Given all the above context, I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that the exterior influences are having an impact, and combined with taking the foot off the gas in our relationship, it is perhaps not a surprise were we are at
• We have been together 7 years, we have 2 kids, I owe it to myself, the kids and our relationship to at least give her the time she has asked for. In the grand scheme of 7 years, a couple of months is not a lot of time. I understand the risks in this, and I know it cannot be indefinite and that I have to be prepared to walk away, but not yet.
• If she is genuinely struggling with everything, it is my job as the man to suck it up and pull us through (within reason obviously) and I owe her the benefit of the doubt for at least a short period of time.
• In my gut, I do worry that this is terminal and I am accepting of that. That said I won't go down without a fight, but I must know my limits for my own sake and my kids.

The plan

• I will have to continue to be myself for the foreseeable future, whilst making an effort to ensure I am leading rather than following
• Continue to focus on the things that will persist regardless of this relationship, my kids and my health
• Make a concerted effort to reintroduce some excitement and adventure in the mean time, working on the assumption that she needs me to pull her through this
• But also prepare an exit plan, along with a deadline for when I have to break it off

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Sure it is. And much easier than divorce

To the kids it's the exact same as divorce. And either way he is stuck paying child support most likely.

 

[Serenity]

• Make a concerted effort to reintroduce some excitement and adventure in the mean time, working on the assumption that she needs me to pull her through this

If she really is stressed/depressed about everything going on then taking her mind off it all for a moment could help a little, important not to bring up anything about her feelings, just try to bring her into the moment.

• But also prepare an exit plan, along with a deadline for when I have to break it off

Having a boundary is wise. Many guys would just keep holding onto hope for way too long and regret it when it's all over.

 

[pipeman84]

Noticed she was a bit off prior to us moving and approached her on the issue, where she has come out and said she is having doubts about the future which has expanded to her being unsure about how she feels about me, can't say if she is/isn't in love with me at the moment.

In other words, she dropped the nuclear bomb on you and the relationship. After 7 years and 2 kids, just because you're moving town and she's changing jobs, that's her response?

You said you're both in your early 30s, that means you met her when she was 25-26 ... what's her relationship history up to that point? I find it hard to believe that 7 years went smoothly and then suddenly, boom.

Obviously she's in the last few years where she is in place where she has enough SMV to 'easily' move on, but I do accept it could be something niggling. Hence why I want to try and cut it off at source.

A single mom in her early 30s with 2 small kids has a cratered SMV, what are you talking about here?

 

[Giraffe123]

If she really is stressed/depressed about everything going on then taking her mind off it all for a moment could help a little, important not to bring up anything about her feelings, just try to bring her into the moment.


Having a boundary is wise. Many guys would just keep holding onto hope for way too long and regret it when it's all over.

Yep I'm trying to take all the stress off that I can, deal with the flat sale etc.

I don't have an exit plan as of yet, but I think it will be good to think it through and come up with one