Social circle vs Cold approach( Post college Age )

Barrister

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No man, if I want to fvck a hoe I just call an escort, I ain't got time to waste cold approaching and dating hoes hoping to eventually get some pvssy. I think the Gordon Gekko quote from Wall Street movie applies very well to this situation ''The public's out there throwing darts at a board, sport. l don't throw darts at a board. I bet on sure things'' ;)
Re OLD (swipe apps specifically), I made a thread on it, it's demeaning and a waste of time for a man to be on swipe apps IMO.
In reality you are just limiting yourself with this outlook. You don't need to be the guy who goes out cruising the mall looking for chicks to take advantage of cold approach. You can do it as you go about your day and have results. Of course you must exert SOME effort to meet women - but considering you are here on a dating/seduction forum I would say you wouldn't be against some diligence being required. Maybe I am wrong.
 

pipeman84

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In reality you are just limiting yourself with this outlook. You don't need to be the guy who goes out cruising the mall looking for chicks to take advantage of cold approach. You can do it as you go about your day and have results. Of course you must exert SOME effort to meet women - but considering you are here on a dating/seduction forum I would say you wouldn't be against some diligence being required. Maybe I am wrong.
My goal is to find a girl to be in a LTR with.....being on this forum has helped me a lot to clarify in my mind what exactly I'm looking for. So my goal is incompatible with cold approaching or OLD, not just because it sets the frame wrong from the start, but the kind of girl I'm interested in isn't on OLD and wouldn't respond to cold approaching (meaning, 'hey you're cute, can I have your number' at the mall or on the street).
 

Barrister

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My goal is to find a girl to be in a LTR with.....being on this forum has helped me a lot to clarify in my mind what exactly I'm looking for. So my goal is incompatible with cold approaching or OLD, not just because it sets the frame wrong from the start, but the kind of girl I'm interested in isn't on OLD and wouldn't respond to cold approaching (meaning, 'hey you're cute, can I have your number' at the mall or on the street).
I am not sure what kind of girl you are describing. You can meet good women through cold approaching - women who respond positively to cold approach. Again, I maintain you are limiting yourself, but I am glad the forum has helped you.
 

BadBoy89

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If a man finds the rare woman worth committing to, what's he supposed to do? Not commit and continue to waste time with hoes?
There is no women worth committing to. He can BE with her. But he should not COMMIT to her.

Women can have very sexy bodies in their late 40s, 50s...Kate Beckinsale and Elizabeth Hurley come to mind. And it's not just the body, the fact that you're with a quality person with whom you've built memories, knowing that she's your woman and you two are on the same wavelength is extremely sexy.
Why are you DEFENDING older women?

Older women are good for companionship, have lunches, wash clothes, cook dinner, clean house. But to have SEX with? A man should go as young as LEGALLY possible.
 

SW15

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You can meet good women through cold approaching - women who respond positively to cold approach.
I agree with this.

You don't need to be the guy who goes out cruising the mall looking for chicks to take advantage of cold approach. You can do it as you go about your day and have results. Of course you must exert SOME effort to meet women - but considering you are here on a dating/seduction forum I would say you wouldn't be against some diligence being required.
I disagree with this. Most men are likely to need to do some sort of dedicated approach session in order to find dates. It's quite difficult to find women as you go about your day. Most men don't have a good enough daily routine to meet enough women to find dates.

A dedicated approach session can take on many forms. They include...

1. Going to a bar and doing approaches. A lot of men go to bars when they need to find prospects.
2. A dedicated, outdoor approach session. This is something like 2 hours on a walking path, on the street, or in a park doing approaches, often on a weekend during daylight hours.
3. A dedicated, indoor approach session. This could be 1-2 hours in 1-2 grocery stores or 1-3 hours in a mall or bookstore.
4. Going to fitness classes at a gym to meet women. Many men belong to a gym already that offers classes. Big box gyms like 24 Hour Fitness and LA Fitness offer classes. Classes are the best way around the earbud problem of the general gym floor. Some men might even do something like ClassPass or joining a new secondary/class based gym to meet women.
5. Joining a co-ed sports league. Some men might be really into that sport. A lot of men do co-ed sports league to try to get dates.
 

pipeman84

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Why are you DEFENDING older women?

Older women are good for companionship, have lunches, wash clothes, cook dinner, clean house. But to have SEX with? A man should go as young as LEGALLY possible.
I'm not saying go pick an older woman for an LTR, I'm saying if you get a quality younger woman and you grow old together, then it's no problem she reaches 50 (and you're 55, 60, 65 yrs old). What you're proposing is that a man who's been with a woman for 10, 15yrs should dump her for some 20yrs old hoe...that's not my mentality.
 

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I disagree with this. Most men are likely to need to do some sort of dedicated approach session in order to find dates. It's quite difficult to find women as you go about your day. Most men don't have a good enough daily routine to meet enough women to find dates.

A dedicated approach session can take on many forms. They include...

1. Going to a bar and doing approaches. A lot of men go to bars when they need to find prospects.
2. A dedicated, outdoor approach session. This is something like 2 hours on a walking path, on the street, or in a park doing approaches, often on a weekend during daylight hours.
3. A dedicated, indoor approach session. This could be 1-2 hours in 1-2 grocery stores or 1-3 hours in a mall or bookstore.
4. Going to fitness classes at a gym to meet women. Many men belong to a gym already that offers classes. Big box gyms like 24 Hour Fitness and LA Fitness offer classes. Classes are the best way around the earbud problem of the general gym floor. Some men might even do something like ClassPass or joining a new secondary/class based gym to meet women.
5. Joining a co-ed sports league. Some men might be really into that sport. A lot of men do co-ed sports league to try to get dates.
Brother, we will have to agree to disagree then.

I am not saying that you are going to meet women going about your day at the workplace. What I am saying is you can meet women going about your day if you are out in a retail store, grocery store, etc. or if you have dinner somewhere and begin chatting up a woman who is sitting at the restaurant bar.

I also never made it a point to go out cold approaching for the sole sake of cold approaching. I know a lot of men, including other members on SS, do just that. However, I like to have another purpose for the trip whether that is I am out shopping or I am at the bar we are at with some buddies. It always makes the conversation much more free flowing.

I have tried come cold approaching at the gym - but I generally stick to just getting my workout done there.
 

pipeman84

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I am not sure what kind of girl you are describing. You can meet good women through cold approaching - women who respond positively to cold approach.
Early-mid 20s, feminine, demure, virgin...not only is cold approaching unnatural, the age gap would make it downright sleazy.
 

devilkingx2

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Re OLD (swipe apps specifically), I made a thread on it, it's demeaning and a waste of time for a man to be on swipe apps IMO.
This is an area I agree with you on; with one exception OLD is only good for chads to bang slvts. Anyone other than chads and slvts won't get much out of it.

The one exception is if you pay for the advanced complex filters some apps like Hinge, Bumble and OKC have that allow you to search for a compatible woman in a way you normally can't. (For example, Christian women who don't drink or smoke.)

My goal is to find a girl to be in a LTR with.....being on this forum has helped me a lot to clarify in my mind what exactly I'm looking for. So my goal is incompatible with cold approaching or OLD, not just because it sets the frame wrong from the start, but the kind of girl I'm interested in isn't on OLD and wouldn't respond to cold approaching (meaning, 'hey you're cute, can I have your number' at the mall or on the street).
The only point that I think you have on Cold Approaching is that it's probably more likely to attract slvts. But almost any method of meeting women is more likely to attract slvts.

A woman who will date you after 5 minutes of looking decent/good and spitting smooth game is more likely to be easy than a woman who wouldn't. But this applies to any random stranger meeting: tourists, vacations, bars/clubs, OLD, mall approaches, etc.

meeting a woman who is less receptive to meeting new people seems contradictory and difficult though.
 

pipeman84

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The only point that I think you have on Cold Approaching is that it's probably more likely to attract slvts. But almost any method of meeting women is more likely to attract slvts.

A woman who will date you after 5 minutes of looking decent/good and spitting smooth game is more likely to be easy than a woman who wouldn't. But this applies to any random stranger meeting: tourists, vacations, bars/clubs, OLD, mall approaches, etc.
I don't think you can lump them all together...for instance a group vacation can be a good opportunity to meet a fellow tourist organically.

meeting a woman who is less receptive to meeting new people seems contradictory and difficult though.
It isn't a matter of her being less receptive to meeting new people, in fact she must be looking for someone, just like I am. But that has to happen under certain conditions and the process unfolds step by step. For example, let's say you meet at the gym... she has plenty of time to observe you and warm up to you, she give IOIs, you pick up on those, start chatting, develop rapport, ask her out, start dating...that's natural, organic. Compare this to the situation where the first time you see her at the gym you go for number close...you'll just scare her away.
 

Do not be too easy. If you are too easy to get, she will not want you. If you are too easy to keep, she will lose interest in you. If you are too easy to control, she will not respect you.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

BadBoy89

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What you're proposing is that a man who's been with a woman for 10, 15yrs should dump her for some 20yrs old hoe...that's not my mentality.
No I would agree.

Just as long as the man has a 20 - 27 year mistress on the side.
 

SW15

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I am not saying that you are going to meet women going about your day at the workplace. What I am saying is you can meet women going about your day if you are out in a retail store, grocery store, etc. or if you have dinner somewhere and begin chatting up a woman who is sitting at the restaurant bar.
It's possible for this to happen. It's not that likely. Most men don't have a good enough daily routine for it to happen.

For men that work in large buildings with multiple tenants, it's possible to find a woman working in the same building for a different company and set up a date with her/get her number. I did this multiple times in the 2010s. With more white collar work being shifted to work at home, it's more challenging to do this now but not impossible. Blue collar men will have a more difficult time with this because blue collar/manual labor workplaces have fewer women.

The grocery store is a different place in pickup mode vs. non-pickup mode. If I just want to grocery shop, I can complete a visit to a typical grocery store in about 25-30 minutes. In those 25-30 minutes, I might not see a viable target. If I am doing an approach session in a grocery store, I will intentionally slow my time in the store. I might spend 60-75 minutes getting what I need. I will need to linger longer in order to find viable approach targets. Roosh even mentioned in "Day Bang" that it wouldn't be abnormal to spend 3 hours in a grocery store doing an approach session in order to get enough prospects to talk for a few minutes and agree to a date. No one normally is spending 3 hours in a grocery store.

Because cold approach is inefficient, numerous women who get approached and actually agree to a date/give out their number will also flake prior to the date. Most women won't actually engage beyond 30 seconds in most indoor approach settings, which is an insufficient amount of time to determine if a date is worthwhile. Most men need more volume of approaches, which is where dedicated approach sessions become a reality.

Men do not tend to go to dinner as much with friends and would have fewer opportunities to do the approach you describe. Men tend to spend time with their friends in activities such as hunting, fishing, auto repair, tennis, or golf. Good luck meeting women with those hobbies. Tennis and golf are the least of the sausage fests there but even those two activities don't lend themselves to meeting a lot of women.

I also never made it a point to go out cold approaching for the sole sake of cold approaching. I know a lot of men, including other members on SS, do just that. However, I like to have another purpose for the trip whether that is I am out shopping or I am at the bar we are at with some buddies. It always makes the conversation much more free flowing.
A slower grocery store approach session does result in me collecting groceries.

I have done sessions in the mall where I didn't buy anything in any mall stores.

I have tried come cold approaching at the gym - but I generally stick to just getting my workout done there.
The gym is a tough venue mainly because of the earbud factor. Fitness classes are the big workaround to the earbud factor and offer great ratios but result in fewer dates than most men would expect from a female majority setting.

In thinking about the general gym floor, most men are in the weight lifting section, which is more male than female. The few females there are wearing earbuds and are looking for men with @sangheilios type physiques. 6'0"+ and muscular. Those men will have an easier time of getting women's attention and getting them to remove their earbuds. Most men aren't hanging around the ellipticals or treadmills either and trying to get the attention of earbud wearing women in that part of the gym.
 

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The grocery store is a different place in pickup mode vs. non-pickup mode. If I just want to grocery shop, I can complete a visit to a typical grocery store in about 25-30 minutes. In those 25-30 minutes, I might not see a viable target. If I am doing an approach session in a grocery store, I will intentionally slow my time in the store. I might spend 60-75 minutes getting what I need. I will need to linger longer in order to find viable approach targets. Roosh even mentioned in "Day Bang" that it wouldn't be abnormal to spend 3 hours in a grocery store doing an approach session in order to get enough prospects to talk for a few minutes and agree to a date. No one normally is spending 3 hours in a grocery store.
Normal people who have work/duties will not be able to afford to spend 3 hours in a grocery store, let alone 60-75 minutes. In other words, cold approach only works if you have allot of time on your hands.
 

SW15

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Normal people who have work/duties will not be able to afford to spend 3 hours in a grocery store, let alone 60-75 minutes. In other words, cold approach only works if you have allot of time on your hands.
You underestimate what a man with an intense sexual need will do. I never did a Roosh style 3 hour grocery store session. However, there have been weekends where I did 1 hour in one grocery store on a Saturday and 1 hour in another grocery store on a Sunday. Think about the men who waste 3-3.5 hours watching a sportsball game on a weekend. Instead of watching basketball/football/baseball and wasting 3-3.5 hours on a spectator sports game, I did approach sessions. Approach sessions are a better use of time than watching a sportsball game.

I've also done outdoor approach sessions for 2 hours on walking paths.

I agree with the idea that cold approach requires a lot of time. What's the alternative though? Swiping on an app? Swiping on an app is also a time sink for most men. The only so-called advantage that swipe apps can offer is that you can do your digital pickups while sitting at home. Both approaching strangers and app swiping are both inefficient and not the best uses of time. Approaching strangers in person is likely the better choice. The urgency of a sexual need is a big motivator.

No porn and no fap pushed the urgency. If you're doing a no porn/no fap lifestyle, you'll be so motivated to get vagina that you'll lose the approach anxiety.
 

devilkingx2

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Normal people who have work/duties will not be able to afford to spend 3 hours in a grocery store, let alone 60-75 minutes. In other words, cold approach only works if you have allot of time on your hands.
This is true. AlphaMaleStrategies said that he got more women when he was broke and living in a Basement in his 20s. He had no hobbies or side hustles and a ton of free time so he could do countless approaches.

But instead he pushes being a high value man, since he's wealthy and in good shape he doesn't have to spend 10 hours a week cold approaching 100 females to get laid. (More choosing signals sent to him, a much higher percentage of his approaches will be closes, higher quality females, etc.)
 
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SW15

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This is true. AlphaMaleStrategies said that he got more women when he was broke and living in a Basement in his 20s because he had no hobbies or side hustles and a ton of free time so he could do countless approaches.

But he pushes being a high value man because now that he's wealthy and in good shape he doesn't have to spend 10 hours a week cold approaching 100 females to get laid. (More choosing signals sent to him, a much higher percentage of his approaches will be closes, higher quality females, etc.)

There was a time when Roosh was in his early 30s, unemployed, and living in his dad's basement. He was still getting laid. He had a lot of free time to approach then.
 

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You underestimate what a man with an intense sexual need will do. I never did a Roosh style 3 hour grocery store session. However, there have been weekends where I did 1 hour in one grocery store on a Saturday and 1 hour in another grocery store on a Sunday. Think about the men who waste 3-3.5 hours watching a sportsball game on a weekend. Instead of watching basketball/football/baseball and wasting 3-3.5 hours on a spectator sports game, I did approach sessions. Approach sessions are a better use of time than watching a sportsball game.
I don't watch sportsgame or have the time to look at that either. It can be argued just about anything else is a better use of time than something one is not interested in looking at.

SW15 said:
I've also done outdoor approach sessions for 2 hours on walking paths.
You did mention that outdoor approaches are more logistically difficult if you are riding a bike and the lady is walking with earbuds on.
Obviously you walk rather than using a bike.

SW15 said:
I agree with the idea that cold approach requires a lot of time. What's the alternative though?
I never said there was an alternative but other posters have made other suggestions. I just said if you can not afford the time to do cold approaches then you won't be able to do cold approaches.


SW15 said:
Swiping on an app? Swiping on an app is also a time sink for most men.
You will never hear any post I've mentioned swipe apps with any positive reference or alternative.

SW15 said:
No porn and no fap pushed the urgency. If you're doing a no porn/no fap lifestyle, you'll be so motivated to get vagina that you'll lose the approach anxiety.
This is something that may work for 20 year olds or people who are 6-7 Normie-tiers, however, for sub-5s (ie which you admitted you are not and therefore can't possibily have an experience of a sub-5), no porn/fap urgency means having the police called on you, or worst, ending up in jail with a rape (likely false one) allegation from a lady who got creeped out that you approached her and wants to make trouble for you. Therefore, anyone going on photoreeler and doesn't at least have a 7 score, should see cold approach as dangerous because you might get a crazy Karen that calls the police on you because you are not good looking enough.

Therefore, to the sub-5s and Chads/Chadlites, explain how more "motivation" would make any difference? One end of the spectrum would just invite legal trouble or worst, and the other end of the spectrum have women going all over them anyway whether they are into that or not.
 

SW15

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You did mention that outdoor approaches are more logistically difficult if you are riding a bike and the lady is walking with earbuds on.
Obviously you walk rather than using a bike.
I am a biker. It would be better for Game if I were a "biker" in the sense of riding a motorcycle than riding a regular bicycle. Bicycle riding is only good for Game in the sense that it enhances your fitness level. Every other fitness activity is second to weight lifting. Weight lifting must be #1. It's good to slot in some other activities besides weight lifting.

If I am riding my bicycle on a path that co-exists with pedestrians, it's possible to combine a bicycle riding session with approaches. If you see a hottie walking, you can pull up in front of her and take a water break so that you'll make eye contact and deliver an opener to her. I've done that. Another way that I've combined my bicycle with approaches is lingering in a parking lot on my bike and waiting for approaches. I've also gotten in a few approaches while parking my car in a parking lot beside a path and seeing a hottie in a sports bra.

Very few women are bicycle riders in my observation. Male cyclists tend to outnumber female cyclists at least 8 to 1, if not 10 to 1.

It's still way easier to do path approaching on foot than on a bike. On foot, you can do the classic PUA maneuver of running up beside her, turning around and doing the approach/stop. That's not my favorite way to do approaches on paths. I like to linger at rest areas on paths and approach whatever traffic comes by there. It looks more natural but it's a planned approach session. I can think of a time where I did an approach at a rest area on a path and the woman texted me after the fact that she thought it was so great that I met her in such an unexpected way. It was only unexpected for her. I met her during a planned approach session. She was also mid-20s at that time in the 2010s when I did that approach and I was over 30. I was a substantially older guy and I impressed an in-demand woman with my bold stranger approach. That wouldn't have happened if I were just another electronic penis in her swipe app queue or social media DMs.

I never said there was an alternative but other posters have made other suggestions. I just said if you can not afford the time to do cold approaches then you won't be able to do cold approaches.
That's cap. That's a weak excuse. If getting laid is a priority, then a man will find a way to approach strangers and get vagina.

Besides, what else could be more important than getting vagina? I realize that some men need to have jobs in order to afford housing to have a place to have sex. Besides that, nothing else is more important. If a job requires too many hours, change jobs to a less demanding one. We don't live to work, we work to live. A lot of careerist women miss this point too. Trying to sequence multiple early stage dates with a career first woman is a massive headache and not worth it. Career first women usually make bad girlfriends and later bad wives for the men blue pill/beta enough to bail them out from spinsterhood, boxed wines, and multiple cats. I digress.

When I have had a sexual need, nothing has mattered more than getting laid. Other elements of my life are designed to support my need to get laid.

This is something that may work for 20 year olds or people who are 6-7 Normie-tiers, however, for sub-5s (ie which you admitted you are not and therefore can't possibily have an experience of a sub-5), no porn/fap urgency means having the police called on you, or worst, ending up in jail with a rape (likely false one) allegation from a lady who got creeped out that you approached her and wants to make trouble for you. Therefore, anyone going on photoreeler and doesn't at least have a 7 score, should see cold approach as dangerous because you might get a crazy Karen that calls the police on you because you are not good looking enough.
I have done some photo ratings and scored between 6.5-7.5. I'm not quite an upper tier male. I'm a solid normal range male.

Being in the normal range, even at the higher end of the normal, isn't that great of a deal either.

I'm good enough looking and carry myself with enough confidence that I won't get police called on me for non-bar approaches on paths or in retail venues. However, that doesn't me I'm guaranteed to get dates or vagina from non-bar approaches. In order to do that, I must demonstrate enough value AND find a woman in the market for some new penis AND she must find me physically attractive. That's not easy to do.

When I have done outdoor approaches on paths, in parks, and on the street, most of the approaches have gone nowhere. Most of the time, the woman is wearing earbuds and is oblivious to my existence. Some of these women wearing earbuds have boyfriends and are not looking for new penis, but some of them are actually available and are some combination of socially inept or not interested in my physique. I would like to think that they are more socially inept than not interested in my physical look. I won't generally approach women wearing earbuds though I'll give them good body language in an attempt to fish for IOIs. If I get good IOIs back, I'll approach. This is split second instinct. If a woman isn't wearing earbuds, which has been rare for the last 5-10 years on paths/outdoors, I have more freedom to do a verbal approach. I'll stop women based on whatever I observe. A lot of these conversations don't go more than 30-60 seconds, which isn't long enough to determine if a date offer/number exchange is worthwhile. If a woman can't be bothered to spend more than 30-60 seconds with me, what makes me think she'll be down for 1-2 hour first date in a bar? I need at least a minute conversation to determine this.

Indoor retail venues are better. Earbuds are rare in the indoor retail venue setting, though in the 2nd half of the 2010s, I started seeing more earbuds in the grocery store, which I attributed to women wanting to avoid getting approached in the grocery store. I have seen fewer women wearing earbuds in the grocery store since the pandemic hit, but indoor masking essentially ruined indoor retail approaching for a while. It's been starting to come back slowly in the last 6 months.

Indoor masking was bad for indoor retail game because one of the better mechanisms in approaching in retail settings was the eye contact and smile maneuver. That entails a man making strong eye contact and smiling a woman and seeing if she holds eye contact and smiles back. If she does this, she's inviting an approach. Those approaches are more worthwhile to do. Anyway, with indoor masking, you don't get the smile back because of the mask. Also, non-verbal cues are strained with masks and masks represent the idea that people are diseased. None of this promotes a healthy approaching environment.

Wheat Waffles has a dating flowchart that is useful for what people are best positioned to do based upon their looks rating.


Therefore, to the sub-5s and Chads/Chadlites, explain how more "motivation" would make any difference? One end of the spectrum would just invite legal trouble or worst, and the other end of the spectrum have women going all over them anyway whether they are into that or not.
Your question makes no sense. Sub-5's, Normie tier men, and Chads experience the mating environment differently.

The best thing for a sub 5 to do is enhance his looks. That's what Wheat Waffles says in the video.

A normie tier guy also has room to improve looks too.

An upper tier guy, or Chad, is set on looks. He can do mostly whatever he wants.

No porn/no fap makes sense for all 3 tiers. No porn and no fap does help make a man more horny and more motivated to make bold approaches. That's going to be better for normal range men and upper tier men. For Sub 5's, they still might be perceived as creepy, but they'd be perceived as creepy if they were OnlyFans simps or frequent porno tube site masturbators anyway. Even plenty of normie tier guys are OnlyFans simps and frequent porno tube site masturbators.
 

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No porn/no fap makes sense for all 3 tiers. No porn and no fap does help make a man more horny and more motivated to make bold approaches. That's going to be better for normal range men and upper tier men. For Sub 5's, they still might be perceived as creepy, but they'd be perceived as creepy if they were OnlyFans simps or frequent porno tube site masturbators anyway. Even plenty of normie tier guys are OnlyFans simps and frequent porno tube site masturbators.
The rest of your post is noted. Its really good information so there is nothing to really to for purposes of discussion unless anyone wants to add any nuances to what you've already posted.

However, I some of the points you are making here do not make logical sense. Chads/Chadlites aren't referenced. Normies, is fair enough as you are a normie mid-tier. But you acknowledge sub-5s will be perceived as creepy if they make bold moves. I don't get the rest of your logic because I could say that sub-5s are creepy because of their looks not because they watch porn and a Chad/Chadlite is attractive to women because of his looks, not becasue he looks at porn! In both cases looks rather than private activity seems to be the big issue of desirability.

Also, its high-stakes if a lady perceives you as creepy as you can have the police called on you, face human resources at work, or end up in further trouble than if you did not do an approach. You've already had one thread where someone had an interaction with the police and your only response is that it never happened to you. Oh, and by the way, if you are going to go with THAT crazy logic, nobody is going to call the police for someone watching porn, so that's apples and oranges.
 

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If a job requires too many hours, change jobs to a less demanding one. We don't live to work, we work to live. A lot of careerist women miss this point too.
It's not that simple, sometimes you have to take whatever you can get. Also they don't pay enough on welfare to quit working and cold approach.
 
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