ShyRyder's 36 approaches to the Next Level

[Charm Artist]

You got a little carried away with the anger over the phone. She hardly knows you and you're getting aggravated over something ridiculous. Basically you just raised 6 more shields in front of her. What i would of done is just talk to her as if nothing happened and plan another date. You have to be able to cope with the fact that reality can always cancel out your Plan A and Plan B.

**** it, it takes more effort fixing **** in the damage zone than it is to attract a new woman. So do exactly that, find another girl.

 

[BrotherAP]

I'd try to talk her into a date just to see if you can. Just don't get attached to any particular outcome, see what you can learn about getting girls to agree and follow through in going out with you. It really is a bummer having to give up on so many girls because you can't get them to agree to a date.

When I talk to a girl, I usually try to plow through her objections in a lighthearted way that puts some pressure on her to say yes without making her uncomfortable or afraid that I'm going to be upset. For example

me: Come out for some coffee with me tomorrow, after work
her: I don't know, I'm too busy blah blah
me: too busy to spend 5 minutes at a coffee shop 20 seconds from where you live? you're going to work yourself to death! you need a break, we better meet TODAY after work
her: I don't know
me: you get off at 5, right?
her: yeah
me: ok, I'll pick you up from work. cya at 5

I mean, that's not anything that I recommen you try and make into some kind of routine, my point is that you don't take her objections seriously. Most girls that are on the fence about going out with you or not really will if you just do a little bit of convincing first.

Another good tip I might add to this is that an easy way to get indirect approval from a girl is to ask about where she'll be whenever it is that you plan on meeting her so that she gives her implicit consent by answering your questions honestly.

For example, I once got a flakey girl on a date (after call 5!) by getting directions to her house like this:

me: all this talking on the phone, I'm forgetting what you look like. If we're such good friends, let's go get a burger at Farley's. I'll come pick you up
her: I don't know (changes the subject) did you know that ___
me: you said you lived on the east side... so if I was going to drive to your house I would head up Sandia Rd., and then turn... right?
her: no, left at Ridgeway
me:and then...
her: go straight until you see "Sunrise Vista Apartments" and turn in, there's a gate and you drive all the way to the left of the parking lot
me: ok, I'll be there in 10 minutes
her: call me when you get to the gate so I can let you in

It was just a matter of insisting, but at the same time never acting upset, and - as always - assume the sale. Assume that she is agreeing unless she is explicitly disagreeing ("no I won't be there").

 

[pimpfromdayone]

Yea, you're right, that's pretty much what you have to do. I still have trouble with it myself because I really do have the mindset of not giving a fu-ck.... I mean, if they resist, I just can't bring myself to care. This is a good thing, but also a bad thing because I "miss out" on some girls simply because I don't care enough to try. I am still trying to find the perfect balance between this completely neutral, disinterested attitude, and the attitude of persistance. I think the key is just to never confront their resistance directly. Resistance, if you're really good, can be avoided all together, but if you get it, you should know to never confront it directly. This doesn't mean you shouldn't insist on things sometimes... instead it means if she says she doesn't want to do something, continue talking to her as if she had never offered any resistance in the first place. That is exactly what BrotherAP was saying I think. Basically you become the one making all the decisions for her (women need this). It puts you in the position of power and control, and with many girls, if you don't start calling the shots, you won't have a chance with her. Women are very indecisive, and I think a lot of them are scared to leave their comfort zones, so obviously, a man (YOU) has to give them a little kick to get them in gear.

 

[ShyRyder]

Pimpfromdayone- Yah man getting angry was foolish now that I reflect. I got in my head somehow that angry means more manly and that women want to feel emotion. I acted indifferent the first time she flaked and I though I did something wrong for acting that way. I should know better in martial arts keeping calm and in control of your emotions is the way to be. Control is confidence

If I could have called her at 8 I would have but common you can’t wait 20 minutes.

Charm Artist- Yah definitely the anger was no good. I swear I was just pissed in general. It was being afraid to talk to Russian girl and that fact that I knew the other girl was going to flake. Man I hate when I wanna do something but the fear holds me back and things go south. I just wanna turn into the hulk and start smashing shlt.

Do this still happen to you guys?
Do you guys every bltch out on things you wanna do?

BrotherAP- Yah a lot of things in life are about selling. That’s the mentally I have to adopt. Any objections I hit em with a smooth rebuttal. Yah assume that sale got it. Its kinda a messed up cause I have a wealth of knowledge in my head about a lot of things but when game time comes it just fades. I need experience

Ok time to destroy and rebuild. Try to get some other prospects.

-ryder out

 

[thederekeffect1]

First of all, congradulations on taking your baby steps.

Already, I can see that you are getting used to approaching women. Not only that, but you got a little experience in the dating process while you were at it with Library Girl (even though there was never a date). Being that she was the 2nd girl you told us about, I think that it's awesome how far you got with her. The chances of you even getting her phone number was against you, but you somehow got to the point of setting up a date with her. Congradulations. Don't get too discouraged that she's blown you off twice. Think of it this way: You should have never gotten that far with her anyway. So, give yourself a pat on the back and move onto another girl (maybe Martial Arts girl?).

When it comes to Martial Arts girl, think about Library Girl. Next time she's stretching out before class, approach her with the same confidence and drive that got you to approach Library Girl three times. Or you could just move onto another girl...

By the way, I'm glad that you're finally seeking out new prospects. Because I was about to reply telling you that you are spending WAY too much time on Library girl and that you need to get your ass out there and find some more prospects. Your goal is 36? You're still a long way away. But look how much you've learned with just the few approaches you have! Think about how much experience you're going to have after 36! If anything, I'm sure that your shyness and lack of confidence will be completely gone.

Keep up the amazing work, man. You heard me, amazing.

 

[Riddler]

Hey man i've been reading some of your posts. I agree with the others that it's awesome you are taking all these steps to improve your game. I wish you the best of luck.

Now what I would do in the case of that Library chick is. Don't call her. The next time you see her act very casual and nonchalant like you don't give a damn. Maybe even mention in a convo that you went clubbing this past weekend or something. Then when Library Chick apologizes about her crap and tells you she's sorry tell her...in a ****y way "OK I may be able toforgive you if you make it up to me" Basically you got to play with her. Tease her and tell her that you don't care that much. Reverse the frame of you chasing her to her chasing you. Tell her that she owes you big time and you are still mad at her (say this very teasingly) She's in total control of the situation, you gotta reverse this.
Why don't you read some david deangelo or something? I think you would benefit a lot by it.

 

[ShyRyder]

Update


thederekeffect1- Really thanks for the support man, I was pretty down on the weekend and you post gave me a little pick up. That goes to everyone

Riddler- Yah next time I see her I’ll be casual and nonchalant. I figure it’s better to talk rather then ignore her because ill get some convo practice in.


Yah this past weekend was pretty messed up didn’t really go out at all. I was pretty depressed just felt like sleeping and watching TV. It’s funny how I can actually tell by my actions and thoughts that myself esteem is down. Pook said is one of his post that the pain is naturals way of correcting out actions. Fvck man I really hope that’s how it is.

Critiquing my strategy a little bit. Sazuki hooked me up with some post on vibing in conversations. I think part of my problem is that I want dates so I can build rapport rather then getting rapport to get dates. I’m going to protect my self-esteem more with the girls I see on a regular basis and just try to build relationship before I ask them out. With the CA is still going to be anything goes. Also I’m going to start Chatting/IM online as much as I can to get my convo skill a little better. I’m realizing it’s more about timing and instinct then thought.

So yesterday I’m at the bus stop with this girl who is clearly a university student because of the size of her bag. I was nervous but in my mind I had to go for it because lately my opportunities have been so few. I think all my approaches have been at bus stops.

(deep breath)
Shy: the rain is pretty cold huh?

Gyal: It’s not that bad

Shy: you find….. I;m cold.
.
.
.
(she has a novel in her hand)

shy: hey what’s that you reading

gyal: *show the cover to me* title says “Liar’s game” picture a cartoon guy and girl

shy: Is it all about relationships?

Gyal: yah

Shy: It’s one sided I bet saying that all guys are lairs and girls are innocent.
Gyal: No it’s actually pretty even saying that both guys and girls lie a lot. How and why

Shy: who do you think lies more?

Gyal: It’s hard to make that generalization cause there are so many different factors if i had to say it would be of course men lie more.

Shy: really (trying to entice her into an argument)

Gyal: yah men will lie about anything

Shy: I think men will lie from a more logical reasons where as women will lie for emotional reasons.

Gyal: everyone says that if a women does anything oh shes emotional... were all emotional beings.

Shy: when a man lies he knows he’s wrong but a woman will justify it to herself.

Gyal Yah that’s true shes will justify it to her self but it because they know how men are and that’s why they do that.

Shy: two wrongs don’t make a right

Gyal: I didn’t say it was right, that just how it is.


Then the bus came and she went to the back of the bus and I stayed in the middle.
I wanted to switch the convo over to what she did for fun so then I could close but I was really nervous. The convo was different the how it looks on paper she dominated most of the argument. I didn’t really defend us too well but I got a couple shots in. She was extremely confident probable a third year university student that’s one of the reasons I was intimidated.

Is that a major mistake starting an argument even though it might be friendly?


Cons
-hesitated
-lack confidence didn’t just let go and spit
-no sexuality
-no close

Pros
-situational opener
-tried different convo territory
-good eye contact

I’m counting this as ½ even though I didn’t close, I been stuggling of late and I really need it.

6 ½

 

[pimpfromdayone]

Not bad, but try your best not to argue with girls.... it is just never a good thing, especially if they are the bit-chy type who think they're always right. It can be ok sometimes, but I would stay away from it just in case. Also, your convo was completely intellectual, no teasing or anything, so there was no sexual chemistry there. Obviously, you need to work on this. Instead of debating the topic like that, focus your conversation on HER. Throw some sarcasm in there, some "I already got you all figured out" talk, and stuff like that. Act like you really don't care what she thinks (you're not trying to win an argument here or anything), but you are only interesting in talking about her. When she said something like "women only do it because they have to," reply with something completely sarcastic like, "uh huh (straight face), so that's how you handle all your guys huh." Tease her about it, tell her you won't fall for any of her silly tricks in a funny way, be a smartass.... and yes, work some sexuality in there if you can. Tell her you lie about the size of your peni-s when picking up prostitutes or some crazy shi-t like that, hahahaha. Just generally stop giving a fu-ck....
You did great opening her up and getting a good convo going... good job.... now all you need to do is make it an emotional convo for her and not an intellectual one.

 

[Charm Artist]

Don't bother to argue with her or engage her in any other way on a logical level. Logic should never be used as a motivator in the field. Your opening stage should always be fun, whether an opinion or situation, etc. Never serious. Great job on the situational opener but you took that and led it straight to an intellectual conversation.

Like pimpfromdayone said, you could of used lots of C&F in that convo, got her smiling and lead it into something better.

 

[Aquatico]

ShyRyder - your'e awesome. It's blatently obvious that your improving a hell of a lot (comparing your first convo to your last), and I wish you the best of luck.

All of this is actually very inspiring. And all I can think about right now is going out tomorrow and reducing my shy tendancies toward women like you're currently doing.

 

[Microphone Fiend]

good job so far...makes me want to start a approach journal. Anyways i think you are working the library gurl all wrong. I think she is looking to hook up and you a persuing a relationship with her (or at least that is how it comes off to me) She is taken, so u cant expect her to give you undivided attention.


As for the bus stop gurl, you could have talkd about emotions, get into how she thinks, and seperate u from every guy who walks up 2 a gurl. Gurls like emotions, she says it herself. Talking about emotions and what she enjoys will get u where u need to be faster than anything (except maybe kino)

Gyal: everyone says that if a women does anything oh shes emotional... were all emotional beings.
Shy: What do you get emotional about?
Gyal: blah blah blah
Shy:I know me too! I remember one time... (give a personal experience that makes it look like u feel the same) OR just talk about emotions on some level
Gyal: I KNOW!!!
Shy: Wow, i dont meet gurls that feel like <insert what u just talked about> I wanna talk to u some more, gimme ya #


basically, get rapport before you # close so she feels a bit mo connection and thinks of you. Like if you somehow managed to make a comment that made her think of you whenever she read the book, u'd be on her mind nonstop until she finished the book.


But props on journal so far, dont get down on yourself, keep lookin for new prospects and u wont need 2 sweat chicks like da library one so much

 

[Inc. ©]

where do you live shyryder?

 

[ShyRyder]

Update

Nothing really brewing, I have to admit my hungry isn’t as strong as when I first started. Not to make excuses but the weather is getting colder. I’m still getting my opportunities like between 3 and 4 buying signals a week but their mostly on buses. I should at least try one to see the outcome. I’m going to reach the mall this Saturday and stay for a while sees what happens.

My 3 month free cable internet deal is up and these bastards are trying to charge me 48 dollars for November. I don’t know if I can pay 30/mth If I can’t work something out I’ll cut it at the end of November. I still have the library though.

On a positive note my re bulking at the gym is going pretty well. Since mid September I’ve gained like 4 pounds of muscle mass. I’m 163 now, slowly turning into a monster.


Still in the game

-shyryder

 

[AudiTy]

I've had a great time reading this thread. I think this is what it's all about. It's all well and good reading until your brain explodes with knowledge but until you're out testing (yes it's an EXPERIMENT) then you can start to filter out what works and what doesn't work.

I think you need to work on your INNER GAME, as it were. Firstly, just STOP talking negatively to yourself. Negative self-talk is one of the primary causes of low self-esteem and often depression. You're defeating yourself and the more you do it the worse it gets, and harder it is to reverse.

One thing I picked up on that you said, was:

"Man I feel like a loser hard for not talking to the Russian girl. It’s like I’m a fvcking defective human who can’t talk to girls."

Stop that sh1t right now!

I've learned that this kind of talk is no good for you! You're still learning. The more you think like this, the more it will become reality. These quotes from a great read 'Think and Grow Rich' by Napolean Hill portray this excellently:

"Every man is what he is, because of the DOMINATING THOUGHTS which he permits to occupy his mind:

Thoughts which a man deliberatly places in his own mind, and encourages with sympathy, and with which he mixes any one or more of the emotions, constitute the motivating forces, which direct and control his every movement, act and deed!"

and

"It is a well known fact that one comes, finally, to BELIEVE whatever one repeats to one's self, whether the statement be true or false. If a man repeats a lie over and over he will eventually accept the lie as truth. Moreover, he will believe
it to be the truth."

Remember, everytime you catch yourself talking negatively to yourself in anyway, STOP IT! No thinking is better than negative thinking. Ask yourself constructive questions, making sure that they are GOAL ORIENTED...and NOT focused on avoiding the obstacles...Maybe you thought:

"Why won't she ring me back?"

When you ask questions like these, your sub-conscious mind will provide answers right off the bat. 'Because I'm a loser' or 'I'm just not confident around women'

The right way to FIND A SOLUTION to this problem is asking questions like:

"What type of communication could I use to make her want to ring me back?"

Then, your subconscious mind will tell you..."Listen to the advice these guys on SS tell you"...

...and so your improvement continues

Good luck and hang in there!


p.s. Stop putting 'Still in the game' after your posts, it's like your giving yourself an option to quit...which is clearly OUT OF THE QUESTION

 

[AudiTy]

To add to the above, you can only attract the women that your confidence allows.

When you start talking positively and constructively to yourself, you will not only notice significant change in your attitude and confidence but you will automatically start to value yourself more. I had alot of the same fears and limiting beliefs that you started off with (didn't we all at some point?) but as long as your thought process isn't a self defeating one, you will continue to learn at an accelerated pace.

I have alot of respect for you ShyRyder, even though I can tell how difficult it has been (you went to anxiety classes !!!) you are doing something that many many men don't have the balls to do!

Like I saw on someones signiture here:

"Improvement doesn't begin at the desktop, but at the doorstep"

So true

 

[locounpoco]

its great to read your thing shyryder
i just started bootcamp, hope to be where you are soon :cheer:

 

[Bling]

Dude, you've asked probably more girls out in your life than the posers in this thread combined. Props.

 

[pimpfromdayone]

Originally posted by Bling
Dude, you've asked probably more girls out in your life than the posers in this thread combined. Props.

Good point, but real "DJ's" never "ask women out."

 

[Instinct]

Props

Good **** bro..but 36 approaches wont get you to the next level of anything..now 1000? THEN we're talking..keep it up...

 

[pimpfromdayone]

Bullshi-t. ONE approach will take you to the next level. Most men go their whole lives without doing ONE approach, and.... guess what, they still get women. Approaching is just an alternative, more direct method for getting them. If it takes you 1000 approaches before you find a dam-n girlfriend (which apparently is what this guy is after), you have some sort of problem or need to work on something you're doing wrong. Most people magically "bump" into each other, through social circles, classes, and what have you. This guy is doing really well.