She will let you know

[Pandora]

Also think its important to note "game" can increase attraction but can't manufacture it

A lot of people saying above if she chooses you then its a pretty much done deal and you can't do anything wrong

this isn't true I've interacted with a lot of women where theres been some interest and I've either said the right thing or wrong thing which determines the outcome

Yes good point. Game can increase it not manufacture it. I will add that if a girl really like you then it will be relatively difficult to turn her off. Unless you do or say something really cringe. If you are hot enough she might even let that slide.

 

[Pandora]

I think they still do my mate is a club promoter overweight out 7 nights a week and still gets laid

he will very much be a "maybe" for vast majority of women he interacts with

Only thing thats change is where as before women would probably fvck "maybe guys" for fun

Now there has to be some sort of trade off

drugs / free drinks / perceived status / comedy

or she needs to be drunk / horny and you need to be in the right place at the right time

Yesss exactly. You have to be a maybe guy high status club promoter with your apartment within walking distance.

 

[Solomon]

The older you get the more your subcommunication should convey your value without having to think about it
For example, if you are truly confident it will speak in your actions without you having to manipulate it
If you are truly charismatic or charming it will speak in your interactions with women
If you're in your late 30s or 40s and you still have to think about these things you're not being congruent and to much in your head
by this time it should be formless and flow in the words of Bruce Lee like water

 

[Gamisch]

Most of those guys are violating easily understandable personal distance rules that have been well validated. Most guys game is terrible. I am definitely certain a guy can lose out do to bad game. I've seen it many times. Yes you have a much wider window of opportunity when the woman is naturally attracted to you

I agree and this is why "game" will always be important.

Your looks will open the door ,but it doesn't mean your in. And even when your in her "personal hypothetical bouncer" has the right to kick you out at any moment.

I do however believe that game can actually earn you some bonus points because most men really DON'T approach / compliment women at all. Like when you suddenly happen to have a lotta money before she knew about it. Having game can be seen as being a "mental millionaire ", while no game means you're mentally broke. A broke man oftentimes will be less motivated to go after women because he will feel like he has nothing to offer.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Only thing thats change is where as before women would probably fvck "maybe guys" for fun

Now there has to be some sort of trade off

drugs / free drinks / perceived status / comedy

or she needs to be drunk / horny and you need to be in the right place at the right time

I think the trade off has always been there. Your fat promoter friends gets laid because he offers women drugs. There's no great mystery there.

 

[BeExcellent]

I like this point of view.

Online has given women more abundance.

In the past, there were women who were reliant upon nightlife venues and had some level of abundance from that. The amount of abundance a woman can get from being active at nightlife venues is a fraction of the abundance she can get from a swipe app or a well done Instagram.

That's certainly true @SW15 but you also have to know that most of the attention is from men she would never seriously consider. And so then it becomes about the value of time.

Think of it like this: Out in public how many attractive people do you see? Let's say you are at an airport and a plane carrying 137 people is disembarking. How many of those people are attractive? A minority. Of the attractive minority, how many of those are appropriate (age/style etc.) and of that secondary minority, how many of those are available to you that you'd have an interest in?

That is what OLD is like for attractive women. It is sifting through enourmous volumes of people you'd never give a second thought. And it takes a terrific amount of time that could be better and more efficiently used doing something else. It is a time sink & not worth it.

People do meet through OLD, my cousin met her husband there....but it is a numbers game, especially for men.

Just yesterday was on a plane. An attractive guy sat down next to me & complimented my shoes. We got to chatting. He's a 34 year old single man, has dropped the apps, and he's pretty sour on dating. He's bald but tall and handsome. Nice smile, trim, good style, nerdy introverted dude in technical sales. Good wit and sense of humor. Easy going & comfortable in his own skin; engaging.

I asked him how much does he leave the house. Not much he said. I told him his homework was 2 things:

1. Sit down & make a list of the must haves in someone you'd be interested in (he said it changes every day....so I suggested he make a list each day of his top 5 things, them compare the lists after two weeks or a month - that will bring into focus what is important to him)....

2. Get out of the house. Go do stuff you enjoy & you'll find like minded people who enjoy the same thing, but put no expectations on it, just leave the house, go somewhere and see what develops.

If nothing else that will give him food for thought. At some point we gotta make an effort if we'd like an interaction with the opposite sex.

It brought into sharp focus for me what guys struggle with. This was a cool man who I found it perplexing that he is single....and not having success in relationships (however he defines success.)

 

[BackInTheGame78]

That's certainly true @SW15 but you also have to know that most of the attention is from men she would never seriously consider. And so then it becomes about the value of time.

Think of it like this: Out in public how many attractive people do you see? Let's say you are at an airport and a plane carrying 137 people is disembarking. How many of those people are attractive? A minority. Of the attractive minority, how many of those are appropriate (age/style etc.) and of that secondary minority, how many of those are available to you that you'd have an interest in?

That is what OLD is like for attractive women. It is sifting through enourmous volumes of people you'd never give a second thought. And it takes a terrific amount of time that could be better and more efficiently used doing something else. It is a time sink & not worth it.

People do meet through OLD, my cousin met her husband there....but it is a numbers game, especially for men.

Just yesterday was on a plane. An attractive guy sat down next to me & complimented my shoes. We got to chatting. He's a 34 year old single man, has dropped the apps, and he's pretty sour on dating. He's bald but tall and handsome. Nice smile, trim, good style, nerdy introverted dude in technical sales. Good wit and sense of humor. Easy going & comfortable in his own skin; engaging.

I asked him how much does he leave the house. Not much he said. I told him his homework was 2 things:

1. Sit down & make a list of the must haves in someone you'd be interested in (he said it changes every day....so I suggested he make a list each day of his top 5 things, them compare the lists after two weeks or a month - that will bring into focus what is important to him)....

2. Get out of the house. Go do stuff you enjoy & you'll find like minded people who enjoy the same thing, but put no expectations on it, just leave the house, go somewhere and see what develops.

If nothing else that will give him food for thought. At some point we gotta make an effort if we'd like an interaction with the opposite sex.

It brought into sharp focus for me what guys struggle with. This was a cool man who I found it perplexing that he is single....and not having success in relationships (however he defines success.)

Well, those things might help him get into a relationship, but won't necessarily help him stay in one.

He might do a lot of things that are turn offs to women...you know the common things many guys do like act needy, desperate or too "nice" and not sexual enough.

Just because you are good looking and engaging in conversation doesn't mean you still don't make basic mistakes. Many guys continue to make the same mistakes over and over again and never figure out what they are actually doing wrong or how to correct it.

Also, I'm not sure I necessarily agree with making that list. Women seem to have these lists of their "perfect guy" and when they get exhausted from looking for him because he doesn't exist or is missing 1 or 2 of her "must haves", most times she ends up with a guy who is NOTHING like what she claims were "must haves" and often times she ends up being far happier with him than what she thought she wanted.

I think humans in general are very good at idealizing certain things in their mind but not very good at putting them into practice or understanding that everything in life is on a sliding scale. Fixating on certain things might lead one to miss other good opportunities even if they might not seem perfect at first.

Now obviously there are some things that are important like finding someone who is not a serial killer or a complete manipulator and who can support themselves, etc but outside of that I don't have a lot of hard and fast rules or things I look for...

Personally, I'm more interested in the vibe I get when we are together and then I go from there. No vibe, none of that other stuff really matters to me.

I definitely agree that meeting women in person and getting out and about is a worthwhile endeavor, especially when it's doing something you like and enjoy.

 

[BeExcellent]

The guy admitted he was all over the place with regards to what he was after in a woman. Like on the daily. So it was obviously something he thinks about.

I wasn't suggesting he make a detailed list, just know his top several things. Its impossible to reach any sort of destination if you give no thought to where you want to go.

Successful people make lists all the time. Its a means of teaching your mind to keep an eye out in the background for what you seek if you review the list. But to do that you have to have some idea what you are seeking.

It could be something like a vibe or a chemistry like you noted for starters. I told him do yourself a solid, get out of the house & be open to interactions around you. Do stuff you enjoy anyway.

 

[BadBoy89]

Just yesterday was on a plane. An attractive guy sat down next to me & complimented my shoes. We got to chatting. He's a 34 year old single man, has dropped the apps, and he's pretty sour on dating. He's bald but tall and handsome. Nice smile, trim, good style, nerdy introverted dude in technical sales. Good wit and sense of humor. Easy going & comfortable in his own skin; engaging.

It brought into sharp focus for me what guys struggle with. This was a cool man who I found it perplexing that he is single....and not having success in relationships (however he defines success.)

When men read this, they immediately know why he is single, yet for some reason its confusing for women.

No matter how a man carries himself; or his attitude, or his presentation, or his job, or his dress, a man's his hair is utmost importance. Generally speaking, a man's hair is MORE important than his height.

As long as the man is taller than the woman, a woman will take a shorter man with thick black hair than a taller man who is bald.

 

[SW15]

When men read this, they immediately know why he is single, yet for some reason its confusing for women.

Here's a great example of that.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

His looks are mid-tier and he's 5'9". Even though he has an MBA from Harvard, he made it to age 38 as a childless, likely never married man.

He might be valued as a beta bucks guy by a woman who sees that he has some money. In his bio, he mentions skiing in Chamonix, France. That takes money to do, especially for a resident of New York City. As a side note, it also takes more money to live in New York City. The beta bucks angle isn't working too well for him since he is single and on Bumble.

He might do a lot of things that are turn offs to women...you know the common things many guys do like act needy, desperate or too "nice" and not sexual enough.

That seems likely. He might give off a decent first impression due to being tall and handsome, though it is somewhat offset by his baldness. However, as an interaction continues, it is likely that those beta traits happen.

Women seem to have these lists of their "perfect guy" and when they get exhausted from looking for him because he doesn't exist or is missing 1 or 2 of her "must haves", most times she ends up with a guy who is NOTHING like what she claims were "must haves" and often times she ends up being far happier with him than what she thought she wanted.

I think humans in general are very good at idealizing certain things in their mind but not very good at putting them into practice or understanding that everything in life is on a sliding scale. Fixating on certain things might lead one to miss other good opportunities even if they might not seem perfect at first.

This sounds like something that commonly happens to women in their 30s and early 40s after accumulating numerous sexual partners.

you also have to know that most of the attention is from men she would never seriously consider. And so then it becomes about the value of time.

I have received this feedback from one of the few platonic female friends I have. She's a female friend because I don't find her physically attractive. She is not overweight but her face isn't impressive. She's average range because of this. I would rate her a 5.

Even most I think most men would rate her as average, she gets a lot of attention when she uses swipe apps despite her advancing age (slightly younger than I am).

Despite most of her attention being from men she would never seriously consider, she has managed to have sex with a high number of men from her swipe app use. Most of it has been short term sex (pump and dump) with the occasional longer relationship of 1 year +. She rarely goes more than a month without any sex.

That is what OLD is like for attractive women. It is sifting through enourmous volumes of people you'd never give a second thought. And it takes a terrific amount of time that could be better and more efficiently used doing something else. It is a time sink & not worth it.

I just finished describing one average looking woman's experience using tech methods for dating. The problem might even be compounded for more attractive women.

I don't think that enough attractive women come to the realization that it is a time sink, not worth it, and then they leave the app environment entirely. Even when they leave the app environment, there are still men hitting on them on their social media platforms, especially Instagram.

I regularly see women on my LinkedIn Newsfeed complaining about getting asked for dates and sex on LinkedIn.

Just yesterday was on a plane. An attractive guy sat down next to me & complimented my shoes. We got to chatting. He's a 34 year old single man, has dropped the apps, and he's pretty sour on dating. He's bald but tall and handsome. Nice smile, trim, good style, nerdy introverted dude in technical sales. Good wit and sense of humor. Easy going & comfortable in his own skin; engaging.

I asked him how much does he leave the house. Not much he said.

Tall helps him. Trim would help him. Nerdy and introverted would not help.

Despite being tall, the baldness between the ages of 30-34 (when a lot of his similar age competition still has hair) is dragging down his results.

In real life, his day-to-day routine isn't helping. He likely needs to be more intentional with his day-to-day routine.

Out in public how many attractive people do you see? Let's say you are at an airport and a plane carrying 137 people is disembarking. How many of those people are attractive? A minority. Of the attractive minority, how many of those are appropriate (age/style etc.) and of that secondary minority, how many of those are available to you that you'd have an interest in?

It depends on where I go. The airport test is not a good one.

If I go to Dallas' Katy Trail, the number of attractive women will far exceed the number of attractive women at Dallas' 2 airports (Love Field or DFW International). Below is my December 2023 review of Katy Trail.

https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/observations-on-dallas-scene.273448/page-14#post-3079709

Even on the Katy Trail, many of the attractive women are closed off to approaches due to earbuds/headphones. Sometimes the women are walking the trail with a female friend, which makes stopping them more difficult. I will sometimes stop a female deep in conversation with a friend on the trail, but approaching a two set during the day is a lower probability approach. In a non-bar setting when I'm alone with no wing, I would prefer to approach a woman who is isolated from a friend.

If I go to a grocery store in a singles dense neighborhood, I'll see more attractive women than going to the local airports.

Even if a woman isn't entirely closed off to being approached by using earbuds/headphones, she might act uninterested right away when I open her. These conversations tend to fizzle out in 30-60 seconds before I can offer a first date. Even in a singles dense neighborhood, most of these women with a marital status of single likely have boyfriends and aren't seeking new penis. These women don't disclose their boyfriends in the 30-60 seconds of conversation. Some unattached and available women might also be uninterested in me because I don't have the look they are seeking. I think more of my quick approaches that fizzle are with women with existing boyfriends.

Another place where I see many more attractive women than local airport is a group fitness class, either at my primary gym or when I buy short term class packages at standalone studios to see new women. While the ratios are good at fitness classes, women are not very sociable after classes. It's likely that many of these women also have boyfriends.

 

[BeExcellent]

The airplane example was merely an example @SW15. You could use any random group of people anywhere. I'm not saying its a place to open women.

I'm using it as an example of a random sample of people, an example most people can understand. That's all.

There are more target rich environments certainly. That's why I ditched the apps.

 

[Barrister]

Game has a place -- specifically when a man is actually actively attempting a cold approach. Although, it could simply be labelled "charm" and it would probably make sense.

That said, the older I have gotten the less and less I care how any one particular woman cares about anything I do or say. Essentially, when a man plays with "house money" it is very attractive to a woman. We have called that "abundance mentality" here over the years, but really it is just having a IDGAF attitude about whatever happens. You are instantly more attractive and many times it doesn't even matter what you do or say.

You get in trouble when you begin overthinking every situation.

 

[pipeman84]

He might do a lot of things that are turn offs to women...you know the common things many guys do like act needy, desperate or too "nice" and not sexual enough.

Probably that's the case. Why would a 34yrs old compliment a woman 20yrs his senior on her shoes and tell her all about his dating life/struggles? Can't he just sit down, keep his mouth shut and mind his own business for 2 hours or however long that flight was?
Sounds more like a puppy desperate for attention than a man.

 

[Barrister]

Probably that's the case. Why would a 34yrs old compliment a woman 20yrs his senior on her shoes and tell her all about his dating life/struggles? Can't he just sit down, keep his mouth shut and mind his own business for 2 hours or however long that flight was?
Sounds more like a puppy desperate for attention than a man.

I know this may come as a shock, but some people just enjoy interacting with people for the sake of interacting and being social. When I travel by air alone, I many times strike up conversations with those I am seated with regardless of it being a man or woman. I would say this is very common. Now, some people, such as yourself by the sound of it, just want to be left alone when they travel. And that's fine. But this isn't some inane scenario like you seem to think.

Also - and this is purely anecdotal, but my experience is when I have sat next to older women (10-20 years older), they will ask me about my dating life mostly just out of curiosity/to be friendly. So this scenario from my experience isn't uncommon.

 

[SW15]

Why would a 34yrs old compliment a woman 20yrs his senior on her shoes and tell her all about his dating life/struggles? Can't he just sit down, keep his mouth shut and mind his own business for 2 hours or however long that flight was?
Sounds more like a puppy desperate for attention than a man.

this isn't some inane scenario like you seem to think.

Great question. I would never open a substantially older woman on her shoes and start a conversation. Complimenting a woman on her shoes is a played out, beta move.

If I happened to be sitting next to a younger, attractive woman (cute to hot range), I still would open a woman on something other than shoes.

On most flights, I don't happen to be seated next to an attractive, age appropriate woman. That's why I am either trying to sleep or I'm reading a book.

Among US based carriers, Southwest Airlines allows a person to select their own seat once on board as compared to every other US based carrier. A smart man can find a hot younger woman traveling alone and sit next to her. Maybe she'll give off open to conversation vibes, maybe not. If not, the play becomes to mind your own business. She will let you know very quickly.

I am open to talking to people in general on planes if they have a good demeanor. This could be a male or female. It is rare to get seated next to an attractive female similar aged or younger on a plane, even on Southwest Airlines.

I found a good thread on this forum from 2010 about picking up women on flights. It mentions Southwest Airlines and the open seating. I've followed that plan when flying Southwest over the years when I've been seeking new women.

Picking up Women on Airplanes

Hey guys, The hardest part of picking up women on airplanes is getting a seat next to the woman you want. Sure, you can get lucky and your boarding pass can just happen to put you there. Just like you can know nothing about Love Systems and get lucky at a bar. But, the whole point of Love...

www.sosuave.net

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Great question. I would never open a substantially older woman on her shoes and start a conversation. Complimenting a woman on her shoes is a played out, beta move.

If I happened to be sitting next to a younger, attractive woman (cute to hot range), I still would open a woman on something other than shoes.

On most flights, I don't happen to be seated next to an attractive, age appropriate woman. That's why I am either trying to sleep or I'm reading a book.

Among US based carriers, Southwest Airlines allows a person to select their own seat once on board as compared to every other US based carrier. A smart man can find a hot younger woman traveling alone and sit next to her. Maybe she'll give off open to conversation vibes, maybe not. If not, the play becomes to mind your own business. She will let you know very quickly.

I am open to talking to people in general on planes if they have a good demeanor. This could be a male or female. It is rare to get seated next to an attractive female similar aged or younger on a plane, even on Southwest Airlines.

I found a good thread on this forum from 2010 about picking up women on flights. It mentions Southwest Airlines and the open seating. I've followed that plan when flying Southwest over the years when I've been seeking new women.

Picking up Women on Airplanes

Hey guys, The hardest part of picking up women on airplanes is getting a seat next to the woman you want. Sure, you can get lucky and your boarding pass can just happen to put you there. Just like you can know nothing about Love Systems and get lucky at a bar. But, the whole point of Love...

www.sosuave.net

Stewardess’s. Sit on the isle seat. If they’re interested. they’ll let you know.

 

[SW15]

Stewardess’s. Sit on the isle seat. If they’re interested. they’ll let you know.

This is true. It hasn't happened to me but I don't fly often enough.

It's difficult to hit on the female flight attendants, even when seated in the aisle seat.

For flight attendants, this thread would be useful.

Successfully Approaching Women at Work (General Public Workers)

The idea of approaching women while they are at their jobs containing interaction with the general public is a topic that is somewhat contentious among men. When I think of women who work with the general public, these are the categories that come to mind of women to approach. Strippers...

www.sosuave.net

 

[pipeman84]

I know this may come as a shock, but some people just enjoy interacting with people for the sake of interacting and being social. When I travel by air alone, I many times strike up conversations with those I am seated with regardless of it being a man or woman. I would say this is very common. Now, some people, such as yourself by the sound of it, just want to be left alone when they travel. And that's fine. But this isn't some inane scenario like you seem to think.

Also - and this is purely anecdotal, but my experience is when I have sat next to older women (10-20 years older), they will ask me about my dating life mostly just out of curiosity/to be friendly. So this scenario from my experience isn't uncommon.

I imagine this is the kind of guy that on a date talks 75% of the time and tries to impress the woman with his accomplishments or whatever. Dating gurus such as OG Doc Love or later on Corey Wayne would advise against this behaviour because women like the strong, silent type; love mystery in a guy and discovering him slowly.

 

[SW15]

I imagine this is the kind of guy that on a date talks 75% of the time and tries to impress the woman with his accomplishments or whatever. Dating gurus such as OG Doc Love or later on Corey Wayne would advise against this behaviour because women like the strong, silent type; love mystery in a guy and discovering him slowly.

I could see that as being true.

Strong, silent types are good. Perhaps as women discovered him slowly, they wouldn't be impressed. However, many are likely unimpressed faster.