Purpose of School?

[Lost In Translation]

i was thinking i was the only one to see this but as Yoda said " there is another "

Pook
The purpose of college is a factory to create employees.

my opinion of primary school and high school and the hours and what not has always been it provides FREE DAY CARE for parents so they can GO AND WORK and PAY TAXES and be busy little worker drones for the upper classes

keep them all busy so they have no time to think

fill their minds with useless $hit so they have no room for wisdom

make them ignorant. spend years shaping their minds to be ignorant. NOW THEY ARE EASY TO CONTROL

The Matrix has them.


Lost In Translation

**AUSTRALIAN STREET PIMP**

 

[sifer]

The purpose of school,

written by John Taylor Gatto
The structure of American schooling, 20th century style, began in 1806 when Napoleon's amateur soldiers beat the professional soldiers of Prussia at the battle of Jena. When your business is selling soldiers, losing a battle like that is serious. Almost immediately afterwards a German Philosopher named Fichte delivered his famous "Address to the German Nation" which became one of the most influential documents in modern history.

In effect he told the Prussian people that the party was over, that the nation would have to shape up through a new Utopian institution of forced schooling in which everyone would learn to take orders.

So the world got compulsion schooling at the end of a state bayonet for the first time in human history; modern forced schooling started in Prussia in 1819 with a clear vision of what centralized schools could deliver:

• Obedient soldiers to the army.
• Obedient workers to the mines.
• Well subordinated civil servants to government.
• Well subordinated clerks to industry.
• Citizens who thought alike about major issues.

~~~
You need to know this because over the first 50 years of our school institution Prussian purpose--which was to create a form of state socialism--gradually forced out traditional American purpose, which in most minds was to prepare the individual to be self-reliant.

In Prussia the purpose of the Volksshule, which educated 92 percent of the children, was not intellectual development at all, but socialization in obedience and subordination. Thinking was left to the Real Schulen, in which 8 percent of the kids participated. But for the great mass, intellectual development was regarded with managerial horror, as something that caused armies to lose battles.
~~~
There were many more techniques of training, but all were built around the premise that isolation from first-hand information, and fragmentation of the abstract information presented by teachers, would result in obedient and subordinate graduates, properly respectful of arbitrary orders.
"Lesser" men would be unable to interfere with policy makers because, while they could still complain, they could not manage sustained or comprehensive thought. Well-schooled children cannot think critically, cannot argue effectively.
~~~
One of the most interesting by-products of Prussian schooling turned out to be the two most devastating wars of modern history. Erich Maria Ramarque, in his classic "All Quiet on the Wester Front" tells us that the First World War was caused by the tricks of schoolmasters, and the famous Protestant theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer said that the Second World War
was the inevitable product of good schooling.

It's important to underline that Bonhoeffer meant that literally, not metaphorically--schooling after the Prussian fashion removes the ability of the mind to think for itself. It teaches people to wait for a teacher to tell them what to do and if what they have done is good or bad.
Prussian teaching paralyses the moral will as well as the intellect. It's true that sometimes well-schooled students sound smart, because they memorize many opinions of great thinkers, but they actually are badly damaged because their own ability to think is left rudimentary and undeveloped.
~~~
We got from the United States to Prussia and back because a small number of very passionate ideological leaders visited Prussia in the first half of the 19th century, and fell in love with the order, obedience and efficiency of its system and relentlessly proselytized for a translation of Prussian vision onto these shores. If Prussia's ultimate goal was the unification of Germany, our major goal, so these men thought, was the unification of hordes of immigrant Catholics into a national consensus based on a northern European cultural model. To do that children would have to be removed from their parents and from inappropriate cultural influence.

In this fashion, compulsion schooling, a bad idea that had been around at least since Plato's "Republic", a bad idea that New England had tried to enforce in 1650 without any success, was finally rammed through the Massachusetts legislature in 1852. It was, of course, the famous "Know-Nothing" legislature that passed this law, a legislature that was the leading edge of a famous secret society which flourished at that time known as "The Order of the Star Spangled Banner," whose password was the simple sentence, "I know nothing"--hence the popular label attached to the secret society's political arm, "The American Party."
Over the next 50 years state after state followed suit, ending schools of choice and ceding the field to a new government monopoly. There was one powerful exception to this--the children who could afford to be privately educated.

And here we are today.

 

[belividere]

Originally posted by Pook
Boston Globe has a piece by Daniel Cheever, Friday, that is titled, "Is College Worth It?" (Cheever is a College President) Many parents easily borrow 100 grand to put for a kid's college education. But let us say you put that money into paper assets and not touch it for thirty years. You will recieve millions of dollars. You will recieve more than you could if you got your degree and "worked" all that time.

It is fascinating, isn't it? Parents will loan you a lot of money for you to work the rest of your life for someone else, but they will not loan money for their own investment.

The purpose of college is a factory to create employees. What they won't teach you in school is a financial education, even business schools do a poor job of it. So take the time to learn and practice investing and selling now. Rather than spending all your time chasing worthless girls, invest in yourself. Pvssy comes, pvssy goes, but YOU are forever.

I agree with this to an extent. I'm a grad student right now in engineering. I've been defering loans and paying my way through as an aside. I got 2 bachelors degrees and I saw most everyone I graduated with get jobs and make quite a bit of money from them. Most of the people I grew up with got into the trades and are making an equal amount of money as those with degrees at this point. I keep on pushing because I have a passion for what I do and I have more ideas in a day than most have in a month, a year or a lifetime. I could have given up and settled for a 9-5 and passed along those ideas without a problem. I didn't though and my experiences will hopefully pay off in the long run. God only knows its geeks like me who control things whether everyone wants to believe it or not.

 

[belividere]

and your mailbox is full.

 

[A-Unit]

WholeHeartedlyAgree.

The schooling system is a factory.

It churns out drones and docile cows that go along like 95% of the masses to the SAME ULTIMATE END.

View it from a macroeconomic view...

95% of America is trapped in some way financially, bound to the same ball and chain, ALL RELYING on some system. Social security. Pensions. Continuing to work at supposed retirement to pay for stuff taught to them as children.

This makes for quite a predictable little world in which companies can easily introduce products, shift expectations and needs, and control people. Moreover, governments can sway opinions and favor by shifiting perspectives. One minute it is the collapse of social security, the next IRAQ, the next Presidential Elections or Terrorism, all the while the swindlers are getting out the back door with coffers full of gold and backed by throngs of power.


____________________________


If Education was meant to be worth any, why are the most valuable skills completely ignored?

If Education was meant to be worth anything, why not leave it up to businesses who could provide it CHEAPER, MORE EFFECTIVELY, and provide COMMENSURATE SALARIES for the true teachers?

If Education is of the UTMOST importance in child's life as to where they go, why does the defense budget overblow it by nearly 100x??

If some system of control isn't in place, then please, tell me why all the above isn't true thus far?


If you travel to germany, college isn't needed because students remain good obedient servants in a system until nearly 20, which is their college. College is free in germany to citizens.

Colleges began as places of higher thought, now i'ts just another venue to syphon the wealth off the masses who can afford it, a way to cripple the middle class by indebting them AND their children several thousands of dollars and more. They are bombarded with credit cards. Of JOBS. Of the Marine Corp, as recruiters flood campuses to replenish their ranks.

Top companies like Fidelity will seat their own campuses in the areas of MAJOR college campuses to recruit more drones for their back office support.


You want education, consider what you TRULY need to know to survive and thrive and get ahead...


Finance, people of old times KNEW how to BARTER, TRADE, and GET VALUE for their basic needs. Now, because basic needs are met by supermarkets and corporations, people just throw away any knowledge of money and its workings.

Language...understand how to speak more than 1 language to communicate across boarders and expand your own intelligence. There are words in all languages that describe aspects of the human experience that aren't captured just by English.

Sales/Communication. More fights and disagreements occur because people don't use the right words and then they don't bother to understand how to fix them or control themselves.

Health. Take care of your body. Know how to eat right for your type. Know how to use self defense skills.

I'd add more, but i've typed enough to get me to my point.


If you LEARN ANYTHING, it's for self preservation, success, and to LIVE. Learning needless things is merely a waste of time, leaving kids and adults alike to be INCOMPLETE cogs, therefore perfect robots for the machinations of society.




A-Unit

 

[Interpol]

Originally posted by Pook
Boston Globe has a piece by Daniel Cheever, Friday, that is titled, "Is College Worth It?" (Cheever is a College President) Many parents easily borrow 100 grand to put for a kid's college education. But let us say you put that money into paper assets and not touch it for thirty years. You will recieve millions of dollars. You will recieve more than you could if you got your degree and "worked" all that time.

It is fascinating, isn't it? Parents will loan you a lot of money for you to work the rest of your life for someone else, but they will not loan money for their own investment.

You say this as if no one who gets a college degree ever makes millions of dollars or starts their own businesses...There has also been a study done that shows the average Harvard graduate's salary and quality of living IS worth the high tuition.

Learning how to invest money isn't some kind of magical solution for everybody. If you want to be a doctor, you're gonna have to go to college. Same with a lawyer, any kind of engineer, architect, etc etc etc. Not everyone is meant to be an entrepreneur or investor. The advice given by most people here is good advice for someone in a second or third rate business school, but that's about it.

The next time you go to the doctor, tell him his degree is worthless and he didn't learn anything truly useful in college, and then let me know what his reaction is...

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Rising malpractice rates, the threat of lawsuits, and the hand of government regulation as hospitals lack proper staffing of nurses doesn't bode well for a profession so idolized by many as "respectable."


Sure, they make some coin, great coin if you're a specialist or a surgeon, but at what price? What's your ROR? You invest another decade of your life and some extra coin to the tune of 200k, defering the gains until 30 or later for what I just described above for what?


If you love it, you'll do it no matter what. Financially speaking, though, if you're seeking growth and good returns on TIME/MONEY invested, a doctor is not the first place to seek your profession.


A degree is specialized training that has been out to be a yardstick of intellect.


"I have a degree."
"I have 3 degrees."

Big whoop.


As was said in "The Teachings of Don Juan" (not related to a seducer don juan):


"Power lies not in the amount of knowledge one has, but in the KIND of knowledge one has."


What good is knowledge in an overcrowded industry or better yet, one in decline?


Those who started companies or make their millions would have done so WITHOUT the degree. That's the point. The degree was merely a tool. It won't take a crum bum off the street and make him a man, and it surely won't take an indolent man and make him a go-getter, it only gives you what you put into it. It's no more than a little more knowledge than high school education ever was.


Yes, it's true. If it wasn't, then why, when students pay 10k+ a year, do they take courses in stuf they typically don't need, AGAIN? Many students take math classes for no purpose, unrelated to their major. Or english, again? How about learning the proper use and communication of the language before learning about the great works of literature that you'll forget anyways??


I thoroughly appreciated "Death of A Salesman," "Portrait of an Artist," and the many other english novels I'd read, but if I'm not an English major and I want to make money and I, me, pays the bill, why throw this extra fluff in that doesn't impact my bottom line?


It's English as a LANGUAGE people need to learn, not ENGLISH as a topic or as a literary topic.


Educations makes people "feel good", like they're ok, they're SOCIALLY acceptable children, but it doesn't make up for their lack of job skills and ability. It doesn't make them entirely marketable. JOB EXPERIENCE DOES.


I know MANY, MANY, college students in their 3rd of classes, who have only waitressing jobs and small internships. If degrees were so prized, why aren't they scooped up now and offered a pretty wage, rather than 1 year from now? What difference does 1 more year make? Senior capstone courses aside, do they make that much difference? Why not groom the junior now into being the senior graduate you want?


More than that, many college students finish without having landed a secure WELL PAYING job. Sure it pays, but how well. What's your ROI? It's sad to pay 25k per year and only make that much. Go back in time, research WHY college was popular.


Why was it?


Because at the time colleges were so esteemed, the wage different between college and non college occupations was 10:1. Meaning for each dollar sunk in college education fees, you got $10 bucks. Non degree people earned $300/yr while degree people earned $3000/yr. And college was VERY CHEAP relative to incomes back then.


I have many gripes with education systems in general, because anybody I've known who's made a great wage and had a business had nothing to impart from college. Perhaps if you're in the top 1% of all schools, great. And for those who are there, let me know. But I gamble it's the same everywhere with only minor differences.




A-Unit

 

[sifer]

Originally posted by Interpol
You say this as if no one who gets a college degree ever makes millions of dollars or starts their own businesses...
You're right, the truth is, time is money. While you are spending time doing your homework, someone like Pook is spending time bootstrapping his business. 4-6 years makes a big difference between capturing the opportunity and winning versus starting late with minimal profit or none at all.

Pook speaks in proportion, majority of the people who come out of college look for work, not start a business. Majority don't have the inspiration or motivation to take risk and get out of the comfort zone to achieve their goal that they dream of. 'Inspiration' or 'motivation' is just a word to them. They are neither and have neither.

There has also been a study done that shows the average Harvard graduate's salary and quality of living IS worth the high tuition.
I'm sure statisticians have their way of bending the numbers to support their argument.

There has also been studies done that shows that most people don't make it into Harvard or Ivy Leagues.

Learning how to invest money isn't some kind of magical solution for everybody. If you want to be a doctor, you're gonna have to go to college. Same with a lawyer, any kind of engineer, architect, etc etc etc.
When you are an entrepreneur or investor, your job is to make money create more money. Your money work for you.

When you're a doctor or lawyer, you have no right to complain about low or bad pay. You're not here to make as much money as a businessman or investor would.

Your job is to do what you specialize in. A lawyer's job is to fight for justice, not make $1,000,000 rate of return ratio.

Unfortunately, that is the way it is today, agents starving because as a college graduate they thought being a car agent would make them millions, inflated price on trades, etcetc. Hundreds of thousands of students become graduates in law, you think they do it because they have a passion for fighting crime?

Not everyone is meant to be an entrepreneur or investor.
You're right. Most people are sheeps.

Baa... baa... baa...

The advice given by most people here is good advice for someone in a second or third rate business school, but that's about it.

The next time you go to the doctor, tell him his degree is worthless and he didn't learn anything truly useful in college, and then let me know what his reaction is...

While I agree it's nice to have a sheepskin from Harvard or any Ivy Leagues, you have to understand people go to college and leave expecting to land a $60,000-$100,000 job salary with absolutely no long-term goal or rational plan for that matter.

If it's for money, you won't be getting it.

When you have a degree and you start a business, let's say for sake of argument, that you do succeed and make high-ends profit. What purpose is your degree for now?
There goes a part of your golden age.

As Luveno has said,

University is a business, and they draw out the learning process as long as it can go, as well as throw some superfluous junk in there, so that its value is high. Thus, profits increase.

I also agree with A-Unit who says,

If you love it, you'll do it no matter what. Financially speaking, though, if you're seeking growth and good returns on TIME/MONEY invested, a doctor is not the first place to seek your profession.


A degree is specialized training that has been out to be a yardstick of intellect.


"I have a degree."
"I have 3 degrees."

Big whoop.


As was said in "The Teachings of Don Juan" (not related to a seducer don juan):


"Power lies not in the amount of knowledge one has, but in the KIND of knowledge one has."

 

[Pook]

Originally posted by Interpol
You say this as if no one who gets a college degree ever makes millions of dollars or starts their own businesses...There has also been a study done that shows the average Harvard graduate's salary and quality of living IS worth the high tuition.

Learning how to invest money isn't some kind of magical solution for everybody. If you want to be a doctor, you're gonna have to go to college. Same with a lawyer, any kind of engineer, architect, etc etc etc. Not everyone is meant to be an entrepreneur or investor. The advice given by most people here is good advice for someone in a second or third rate business school, but that's about it.

The next time you go to the doctor, tell him his degree is worthless and he didn't learn anything truly useful in college, and then let me know what his reaction is...

I have a college degree. I think it's wise for everyone to get a degree.

But colleges do not teach you about money. They don't teach you about financial statements, about assets and liabilities. You are taught how to make resumes but not business plans.

A couple of centuries, before the Industrial Age, everyone had some sort of understanding of money and business. In the 17th century, for example, most people had their own shop of some sort. They had to pay the bills, manage their assets, and keep their business running. Even the farm was a business, as the farmer's asset was his crop potential. He had to sell his crops and manage the books. Everyone had an basic idea of accounting. It was only until the Industrial Revolution (combined with the population boom) where you had many employees for one employer.

But the Industrial Age is over. How are you going to retire? Pensions? Half of GM is now dedicated to managing their pension accounts. GM's purpose now isn't selling cars, it is managing people's pensions. Those who gave a lifetime to their job are now finding their pensions slashed and that they have to go back to work. One airline company abandoned their pension and the government had to pick it up. If you expect to retire on Social Security in America, you're retiring to poverty provided the system is still there decades from now.

What about mutual funds and other paper assets? It is said, on long average, that the paper assets will always go up, up, up as it had since 1940. But do people have a contingency plan just in case? Every seventy years or so, the market falls into a depression (or a 'panic' as they called it back then). There will be financial shocks in the future. This is assured for the same reason a future war, future earthquake, or future hurricane are assured: they occur within all generations.

College education is important. But more important than that is a financial education. After college, your report card is your financial statement. You don't have to start a business, but you have to come up with some financial structure for you to retire. Living cheaply your entire life and 'saving' isn't enough. That may work but all you do is end up with a 'cheap' life.

Those who do not put time into their financial education are going to be at the mercy of those who did. Today, Google has surpassed the value of TimeWarner. Google is, de facto, the most financially valued media. I just read another report saying that the Film Industry is at 9 billion dollars and will probably fall off, the Video Game Industry is at 7 billion and rapidly growing. Imagine that! Video games will soon be the highest grossing form of entertainment. Advertising money is steadily declining on the TV and is going to the Web.

The world is rapidly changing, as the Industrial Age artifacts fall from the world like over-ripe fruit. College education is very important. But financial education is more imporant. There was a past age where those who could read could easily exploit those who couldn't read (i.e. the peasants). Our age will become one where those who can read assets (they search for assets, build assets, etc.) will be easily to exploit those who cannot read assets. Imagine the change to one's life if they spent their free time shopping for assets rather than liabilities!

"Try telling the women that, Pook."

I know. It is like many women feel 'destined' to a big house (which takes 30 years to pay off), couple of SUVs, cute dog, kids with expensive education, and, oh yeah, trips across the world because 'she loves to travel!'. If guys could read women, they would read like a financial statement. Their liability column would be just like the most of us, with college education, retail debt, car debt, etc. all listed. But in the asset column would be YOU! Her passive income would be YOUR income. A single woman looking over different guys is in a similiar state of mind as a real estate investor analyzing the income generating qualities of different properties. She has a poker face on as does the investor.

Poor century! We no longer know the difference between finance and sexuality. Women often see husbands as an asset to manage. Even sex and stocks are now confused. Sex is now seen as something the more you have, the more 'control' you ought to get over the person. Contrast that in stocks which people buy hoping the stocks get pregnant and reproduce.

 

[RepphIz]

Originally posted by Pook
I have a college degree. I think it's wise for everyone to get a degree.
yes!!! a degree is too important!!!

if ur a high school dropout and succeeded
u did somethin illegal!! u NEED a degree or else!

But colleges do not teach you about money. They don't teach you about financial statements, about assets and liabilities. You are taught how to make resumes but not business plans.
who needs business plans? a resume is more important! i dunt get why u need a business plan, why not just get paid instead of going thru all this troubl?
[/B]

pook ur ocntradictin urself! first u say financial education is impotant than u say college education is important! what's the difference?? u need ocllege, u need to find a job, u need to work to pay off ur bills :crackup: anyone who says college is not important is stupid, when i see u on the street, ill toss you a few dollars and pity u

then drive away saying "poor man, stupid idiot dropped out of high school/didn't go to college thinkin it wasnt important"

 

[RepphIz]

i just noticed few people here dont think college is essential to ur very basic survival needs

im currently applying for some college including (i hope) some ivy leagues

lemme just say, if u dont go to college, u wont make it, its the best investment ull make, think about it, u pay for commitments, costs, years of studies, tuition, professor, books, fees, etc, even free place to live!

there r studies that show college graduates making lots of money!
i cant wait until i start making lots of money

think! u NEED ur college! u get health insurance (at least thats what i heard), u get job offers, MANY job offers!, u get chicks, i cant wait to join a frat

so the purpose of school is NTO To create robots but to create and make peoples LIFE easier!!! our gov't care about us! the stronger the people, the stronger the gov't and the nation!!! i dont get y people dont go to college when they can

everyday i see some of my friends not going to college saying they got some plans, wut can u possibly do without a college degree?


so to finish, when i finish my bachelors (ill be going for masters) for business administration and accounting, im gonna get a job and move out

then when i see some of you taking my garbage every week, ill laugh

or when i see u without a job, ill just laugh and pity the poor pathetic homeless

 

[diplomatic_lies]

^^^^
I hope you didn't apply for college like this.

 

[RepphIz]

Originally posted by diplomatic_lies
^^^^
I hope you didn't apply for college like this.

No I didn't, I just don't feel like typing like this. its cooler this way

 

[Interpol]

You're right, the truth is, time is money. While you are spending time doing your homework, someone like Pook is spending time bootstrapping his business. 4-6 years makes a big difference between capturing the opportunity and winning versus starting late with minimal profit or none at all.

This is only a logical statement if you make the assumption that my time spent in college is completely worthless. I may not be running a business yet but I'm gaining (useful) knowledge. If I were to have foregone college and set out into business immediately, I probably would have needed to spend so much time and effort educating MYSELF that I really wouldn't be saving anytime at all, not to mention my education wouldn't be nearly as thorough or complete.

Pook speaks in proportion, majority of the people who come out of college look for work, not start a business. Majority don't have the inspiration or motivation to take risk and get out of the comfort zone to achieve their goal that they dream of. 'Inspiration' or 'motivation' is just a word to them. They are neither and have neither.

This is true, but that's not a flaw of the college education system, it's a simple fact that most people just aren't that motivated or inspired! The world needs followers just as much as leaders. If everyone was a leader, no one would get anywhere.

There has also been studies done that shows that most people don't make it into Harvard or Ivy Leagues.

Well, you don't need any studies to prove that...Top schools usually admit less than 20% of applicants, and that's coming from a very talented applicant pool. My point is, you (usually) get what you pay for and you can't lump top-tier schools into everything else. If you have the skills and motivation to attend a top-tier college, you're going to get a top-tier education! If you got Cs in high school and go to East Buttfvck State, you're going to pay a lot less and get a lot less! College degrees aren't worthless, they're worth the effort, time, and money put into them!

While I agree it's nice to have a sheepskin from Harvard or any Ivy Leagues, you have to understand people go to college and leave expecting to land a $60,000-$100,000 job salary with absolutely no long-term goal or rational plan for that matter.

Once again, the fact the some people have very distorted views of the value of their skills is no flaw of the college system and is not a reason to forego college. If someone goes to a mediocre college and think their degree is going to land them a 60k job right after graduation, then that's their own fault.

When you have a degree and you start a business, let's say for sake of argument, that you do succeed and make high-ends profit. What purpose is your degree for now?
There goes a part of your golden age.

You're right, my degree itself would have no purpose...What would have purpose is the knowledge I acquired that allowed me to succeed. As for my golden years? Hell, money is just money. College is probably going to be the most enjoyable time of my life. I've got the rest of my life to make money, you only go to college once.

But colleges do not teach you about money. They don't teach you about financial statements, about assets and liabilities. You are taught how to make resumes but not business plans.

Oh, they don't? Funny, I learned about all of those things in my intro-level Financial Accounting class. I guess if you major in Philosophy and only take the easiest classes available you're not going to learn much about money, but I think my business school is doing a pretty good job.

 

[mandoremay]

it's funny cause i just had a war with my parents in law about school. i had just bombed in college and it's not sitting well with them.

it's strange cause they don't even fit middle class status.... more like border-line welfare and i'm getting the third degree.
it's like life is over if you don't succeed in school to them.

i come from a family where my dads a doctor and everyone else has some sort of cool degree. they know even though i didn't pull school off this year doesn't mean i don't have other plans.

i'm 27 years old...since when is there an age limit and time line to how you succeed in life. i'm am not an academics wizard...never said i was. but i'm happy! isn't that what the real goal in life is.

it's funny how some people are. when you mention which courses you were thinking of taking, they always ask do they make good money.

to me money doesn't mean much. i would be happy doing something i enjoy. i don't have kids yet so i have no big financial worries.

sure more money is cool and all but whats the point of a high power paying job when thats all your married too?
i am impressed though with people who can succeed in university or college. but it does not make me feel less.

there's 2 types of people i met in college and university. the young 20yr olds and the aging 30 to 40 yr olds.
the 20yr olds are your average lets do school and find a job type of people. people who follow the easy path.(not like theres anything wrong with being cautious).
then theres the 30 and 40year olds in school who have stories about where they were and where they went. to me theses people lived.

i do believe school is important...but at what costs.
someone once told me that if you can't do school there just weeding out the dumb. i don't believe that for one bit.
what about smart poor people who are poor and can't afford the costs of a good uni or college. it's not fair but oh well.

i'm sick of hiding who i am to my wifes family. next time they ask me the question,what am i gonna do now?
i'm going to tell them rock n roll. every parents nightmare is a rocker. as long as i have 1 cigarette in one hand and my guitar in the other i'm happy.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

College has been sold to the masses. As mentioned before College was an EXTREMELY great bargain in the early 1900's when...


Degree candidates made 10x what Non-degree candidates made. The going rate of wages back then was...

Degrees $3000/yr
Nondegrees $300/yr

Even if it cost you $1500/yr to go, or even $2,000, you knew a return of money WAS CERTAIN in the first few years. Down the road, the rest was gravy. Now what? It costs $15k per year OR more, and you get maybe $30k for a salary? A $15k education is a state education and the few fields that would yield $30k+ in New England are Engineering, Sales, Nursing, and SOME support staff positions. Other careers afford MORE income after a period of years.

Putting aside the Return on Investment...


And education, is an education, is an education. HOWEVER, if you give a tradesman who has an entrepreneurial background and penchant the 4 year headstart they''ll blow the college student out of the water EVERYTIME. How is that possible?


First off, they don't incur the $40k in debt it takes to get through college. Also the lost time and experience you lose from age 18 to 22 of NOT working at a better level.

Second, they have a head start on income.

Third, they're always in demand. A tradesman will continue to grow, especially as babyboomer tradesman retire. Moreover, as entreprenuer or sole proprietor, they have more control of their own tax status and right offs.

Fourth, they're building a business, gaining practical real world skills that are applicable and NOT simply idealized tech skills pandered through text books.


What we're comparing here are a college candidate selecting DIFFERENT paths, not saying its one size fits all. Some do have a desire to be an employee, to have a regular schedule, to be told what to do, and that's fine. But in terms of "best" opporunities, college is declining. Believe me, I have a degree in Finance/Accounting/Economics, and they DO NOT teach what should be taught NOR do they teach practical finance. They TEACH text book knowledge that's been approved to NOT OFFEND or bring liability on the campus.


If colleges TRULY had education in mind, why not offer the best non fiction books and seminars as part of their education?

In finance, Benjamin Graham, Peter Lynch, William J Oneil, and Warren Buffet stand as a testament to investment wisdom. Why not teach principles that these guys teach?

Zig Zigler, Tom Hopkins, Dan Kennedy, Neil Rackham all wrote incredible books on sales, yet you won't FIND ONE in a college course.

Public speaking is barely a requirement, yet of all jobs anyone does, speaking and communication is first and foremost at getting ANYTHING done.


___________________________


And while some of you male posters HAVE taken finance classes, either because you're in business or you wanted to, there's a lot more who HAVE NOT. Many women don't even touch accounting, and if they do, they fail it anyways and forget its practical uses. I know, I tutored girls in college and deal with them everyday, most throw it aside and LET SOMEONE ELSE WORRY ABOUT IT.

Which means 2 things must happen...


1. Finance courses on debt, assets, investment classes, how to invest in them, how to set up a financial plan MUST BECOME manditory AT SOME LEVEL of education.

2. We must revert back to the old days of WOMEN staying home and relying SOLELY on some MAN to take care of themselves.


It's not like a woman is going to put down a COSMO magazine to pick up a Peter Lynch Book, or a Ric Edelman financial planning book. Is it?


And everything some of you posters described as COLLEGE is what's bad about it. Yes, bad. The experiences are great, but keep in mind you're PAYING for them in terms of time and money. If you enjoy it, do it, but that doesn't mean I , or anybody else here who has said that college isn't what it was is wrong. It only means you LIKE IT SO PAY for it. Just because you like DISNEY stock and its tanking doesn't make it a good investment, and so on.


___________________________

History lesson.


When, as Pook described it, crops and animals and the like were the tools of bartering, PEOPLE KNEW what value they could get. They knew what they needed and how to exchange it. They knew how to care for the crops, make them grow, and when to sell them. They knew how to care for animals, how to heal and feed them and when to sell them. THEY TOOK CARE OF THEMSELVES.


The new tool is money/currency and the new crops assets. If you earn even $1 you must understand your RESPONSABILITIES by earning that within the 50 states or as a citizen of the United States. Sure $1 isn't taxed, but once you get up to $3k you get taxed.


95% of America is not ever going to be FINANCIAL free, yet they'll gather $1,000,000 in their working careers. A sign of true wisdom in finance is doing more with less. Sure it's not as easy as the guy who makes $100k /yr to invest in real estate or to take great risks in the markets, but can they still lead a great life? Yes. Absolutely.


A college degree is a piece of paper. While you'll have the memories and maybe the connections if some materialize, the only thing employers see is that resume. Your experiences make you who you are and hopefully they're positive growth ones that impact your future. But the drinking, debauchery, sex, and overall cost is far too high for what you get. Ultimately, WHAT you pay for is the education, the classroom time, which accounts for less than 10% of college time spent each week.




A-Unit

 

[sifer]

KNOW THYSELF

This is something that has been emphasized throughout the works of Pook and various other great works.

One who knows himself has gain disinterested wisdom. Once you truly know who you are, once you gain that wisdom and that knowledge, nothing can stop you.

A Tao principle says...
When you have the true sense of it's meaning,
It's true knowledge and wisdom,
You will be able to make
The correct decisions in your life.

This won't be easy because we are currently conditioned to our old ways, it becomes a war, many battles you must fight against yourself. Franklin D. Roosevelt says this best, "Men and women are not prisoners of fate, but only prisoners of their own minds."

The way to go at a happy life, the way to live cannot be put into words easily. Only knowing yourself and helping so. If you find that you love singing or discovering new theories in physics, help yourself so. Fulfil yourself and make yourself happy! Don't let women or money get you. But! Do remember, you have yet to discover yourself until you have tried out as many and as much as you could do and go for...

The Writer says...
6) Shake things up

Take risks. Do things differently, or do things that make no sense at all. I love taking pointless trips to places around the country, all by myself. There's nothing like the freedom of being alone and free in a strange city, with a million places you've never seen before in your life waiting for you to explore them, and a million people out there for you to meet. No obligations. No deadlines. Just me, my mind, a pad and pen, and a bunch of new experiences.

Try it all, Sifer says! Look toward the sky with pride, the wind blowing ruffling your hair! Look toward the world, point out and say, "this is what I live for, for there is nothing in it that I can't handle."

Learn to discern the difference between fulfilling your vanity and fulfilling your true self.
One is temporary, the other one is permanent.

Anything that can be put into words cannot be so, girls for example. If you can say girls make you happy, think again, are you truly happy? What happens when that girl leave? Ah ha! You're down once again. True happiness last. Your vanity don't.

The embodiment of Tao says...
Even the finest teaching is not the Tao itself.
Even the finest name is insufficient to define it.
Without words, the Tao can be experienced,
and without a name, it can be known.

When you are truly happy, when you have unlocked that unlimited potential as some of the self-help guru put, you will be a real man who is truly happy for the rest of the life regardless of the situation.

While teaching his students, Confucius says...
"I know that birds can fly and fish can swim and beasts can run. Snares can be set for things that run, nets for those that swim and arrows for whatever flies. But dragons! I shall never know how they ride the wind and cloud up into the sky. Today I saw Lao Tzu. What a dragon!"

Pook says...
-Focuses on his dreams.

No, this does not include the chick. You must have passion for something in life, something you even want to do for the rest of your life. Your romantic life is an echo of your regular life.

Anti-Dump says...
Real men are not available. They are climbing mountains. They are swimming across rivers. What are YOU doing? Making spagetti?!?!?!

Pook would say, kill that desperation [for women] and replace it with passion of your own.
Sifer would say, kill that greedness [for money] and replace it with desire of your own.

Both leads to your goal. Whether or not you achieve it, at least you have truly lived.

Pook says...
-Ambition

When you think yourself as The Great Catch, you KNOW women are not the priority of your life. After all, the Great Catch knows he can get any woman whenever he wants. When you feel good about life, you cease to fear success and demand Life show all that it has. Aim for the moon. If you miss, at least you'll be among the stars.

The advice everyone give is great, if you're passionate about your line of work, you'll do what must be done. Remember, it is better to live only 2 years of joy in doing something you love, that you're passionate about than it is to live 20 years of harsh pain in doing something you absolutely hate.

 

[sifer]

Onto money versus college.

If you find that you need college, go for it, noone's stopping you. Only you make the decisions in life. Remember, you are in full control of who you are.
Not some total strangers on the internet.

Maybe you have discovered yourself, you found that you rather take orders than give orders, which is fine, nothing "low" about that. For those who cannot follow orders, forcing yourself to school isn't going to make your life any better.

Remember that it is far more important to look at the big picture from now. That is important for you. When you think on the small picture, when you think of now, as most people do, that is when the advice "go to school, get good grades, get to college, and then get a job" becomes dangerous.

Interpol says...
I've got the rest of my life to make money, you only go to college once.

This is where it becomes dangerous. While you may have the rest of your life, what happens when you lose your job? What happens when you realize they invented something that replaces you at your expense? What do you do? You must re-specialize. Doing what you love will not put you in this situation, going to college, getting a job, such will put you in a dangerous situation like that. What happens when you lose your job to a robot? This is so in Asia.

Like this situation here...

http://english.zjol.com.cn/05english/system/2004/12/02/003975039.shtml
Robot replaces workers
12/02/2004 14:20 EST (0148 GMT)

http://marshallbrain.com/robotic-freedom.htm
Once robots start arriving in the job market in significant numbers -- something that we will see happening within a decade or so -- they have the potential to dramatically change the world economy.

At least 50 percent of the people working in the American job market today are working in people-powered industries like fast-food restaurants (McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's, etc.), retail stores (Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Target, Toys "R" Us, etc.), delivery companies (the post office, Fedex, UPS, etc.), construction, airlines, amusement parks, hotels and motels, warehousing and so on. All of these jobs are prime targets for robotic replacement.

While discussing these questions of unemployment and wealth concentration, we should ask a second type of question as well. The arrival of robots should be an amazing time in human history. With robots doing all the work, we should in theory be able to enter an era of incredible human freedom and creativity. Instead of turmoil and massive unemployment, robots could theoretically release us from work.

Makes me wonder, about the last statement in that quote... "could theorectically release us from work"? Where will we go if we are unemployed? What do we do at home everyday beside watching TV and playing video games? What new achievement can we make if we are only getting weaker everyday?

The best humans can be used for is being a soldier, nothing can replace a soldier. Nothing can grab documents better than a soldier, nothing can react as fast as a soldier in dangerous situation.

And that is something I'm sure you wouldn't want to put yourself in.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/5250 for more information on this.

Now let's disregard robots and other possible invention taking over our work.

Overpopulation? What about that?
Downsizing company? All it is is redistribution of wealth from top to bottom.
What happens if you're working for GM? http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/07/news/fortune500/gm_closings/index.htm?cnn=yes

How about Enron? That wasn't too long ago, not like it was 20 years ago. About a year or two ago. Very recent.

Since 1990s, Robert Kiyosaki believed you cannot depend on the Social Security, look where we are today. The SS is near-bankruptcy.

That's on the subject of finding a job after you leave college or already have a job with no base to fall back on in case you lose your job.

RepphIz says...
then when i see some of you taking my garbage every week, ill laugh

or when i see u without a job, ill just laugh and pity the poor pathetic homeless

Question for you RepphIz. What happens when you're fire from your work because your boss find someone better? It happens everyday.

RepphIz says...
there r studies that show college graduates making lots of money!

I wish that was true, making millions and millions.... not taxed, insured, low expense, etcetc. Reality hits.. when you receive your very first paycheck..
Deduction for benefits, payroll taxes, income taxes often within the range of 15-, 27-, and 30- % bracket.

Then chances are you'll buy a car, get an apartment, then more bills and more bills. Money disappear as easily as your woman. It's overwhelming.

Sure you get tax break at every April but.. I'm not sure that's something you want to depend on.

Remember, if you are doing this for money, you won't be getting it. If you are doing this because you feel that you'll be the next breaker in the field of psychoanalysis or discovering the deeper levels of Quark physics, all that expense is nothing you can't handle. Afterall your passion is far too important for you to forego.

RepphIz says...
then drive away saying "poor man, stupid idiot dropped out of high school/didn't go to college thinkin it wasnt important"

It's not if your line of work revolves around the get up and go, such as investing in stocks and trading business.

It is if your line of work is of the academic lineage.

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/special/20000612.asp says...
Bad credit decisions in college have long-term implications
Perhaps the most unsettling surprise for college graduates surrounds the impact that poor use of credit during college can have for years after graduation.

Nellie Mae, a student loan provider, reports on their 2002 survey that undergraduate college students who used credit cards to pay for part of their education have a median balance of $3,400 on their credit card. Graduate students accumulate more than $31,700 in student loans.

Which is what A-Unit confirms...

First off, they don't incur the $40k in debt it takes to get through college. Also the lost time and experience you lose from age 18 to 22 of NOT working at a better level.

Second, they have a head start on income.

Third, they're always in demand. A tradesman will continue to grow, especially as babyboomer tradesman retire. Moreover, as entreprenuer or sole proprietor, they have more control of their own tax status and right offs.

The message is, don't do ANYTHING for women or money. Never. Only for yourself.

 

[Pook]

Once again, the fact the some people have very distorted views of the value of their skills is no flaw of the college system and is not a reason to forego college.

No one has said 'do not go to college'. The thread was about the purpose of college. And the purpose is to make you into an employee.

There is nothing wrong with being an employee. But you will never be able to become rich as an employee (unless you are a super-celebrity) or financially free.

you only go to college once.

Yesterday, literacy was defined as reading and writing. Today, literacy is defined as being able to learn, unlearn, and relearn. College may end but you'll still be taking education classes throughout the rest of your life, especailly as an employee. You'll be training, re-training, etc.

Oh, they don't? Funny, I learned about all of those things in my intro-level Financial Accounting class.

You haven't learned any of those things. Bankers, for example, know these things but they stay bankers their entire lives and they are extremely well knowledgable about 'finances'. Being an investor or businessman is very very different from being an employee.

I guess if you major in Philosophy and only take the easiest classes available you're not going to learn much about money, but I think my business school is doing a pretty good job.

Not philosophy, law and english (communication). Though definately no lawyer, I've found having a general understanding of the mechanics of law and government to be very helpful (since my biggest expense is ALWAYS taxes, plus the regulating, the zoning, the corporate forms available, why certain senators now in Congress may make some changes, etc. etc.)

Whatever you're taking is fine. But you're only going to learn about business by making one. Even in business school, there is *so much* that is not going to be taught to you.

 

[RepphIz]

Originally posted by Pook
There is nothing wrong with being an employee. But you will never be able to become rich as an employee (unless you are a super-celebrity) or financially free.

what do u mean rich!? as in have millions? when ur a lawyer or a doctor, tell me u wont make millions off these professions! or real estate agent (realtors i think)!?

doctors pull off $100,000+ per year! 10 years a million is in your bank