Purpose of School?

Oxide

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I have a question. I go to a school that is about $5500 a year for tuition. It is a decent size school, and is acredited as well. However, how much will this affect the future employers when they look at my resume and find out i didnt go to a top notch school... i really dont want to be discriminated against based on what school i went to, however at the same time is that extra $10000 i would have to pay to get into a better school be worth it in the long run?



I think anyone who is going into business should DEFINATELY take some law classes or get a minor in law. Once you start getting into it, it is very easy to see where people get confused and how complicated all this stuff really is.

Here is a free tip from Oxide:

If you ever happen to claim bankrupcy, whatever you do, ALWAYS make the payments on your house. Screw the insurance, screw the medical, but pay that morgage. As long as you do, your $100000000 house can not be taken away from you.
 

Jvesti

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Originally posted by Engetsu
:nono: Sandy and Charles are isolated cases, thus, irrelevant.

Going to school opens up your mind and critical thinking abilities.

Starting a business without any higher education is an amazing way to fail.

I'm deceived... I would have expected much more common sense out of a heavily-worshipped poster such as Pook.
See therin lies the problem. You speak of failure like its a bad thing and not a learning experience it truly is. This is the school avoid mistakes, be approved the the authority/teacher mentality.

But the stats show that people that lacked those biz degrees or were drop outs were most likely the ones that GOT IT RIGHT eventually. Not the college grads. Again, study forbes and run some google searches for objective evidence.

I know for a fact that I learn much quicker by spending most of my TIME doing the thing I want to learn with a supplement of social and literary information at least 5% of my time and the times when I'm unable to act much . (i.e. in the car, in bed, on Train, etc) I'm sure its that way for everyone. IN FACT, I believe reading somewhere that 80% of what you learn in college you forget 1 year after graduation. How do you explain that?

On the other hand, I forget nothing practical about business because i'm in constant need of that information everyday.

It just doesn't apply to entrepreneurship and todays good management practices namely the Jack Welch management philosophy that had to break through that.

This mentality to look down upon failure is exactly what keeps people on the sureboat and never getting off the launchpad. I see it all the time.

Due to the fact I've been involved in startups and business ventures. For the past year and a half. I've learned more practical things about business than i would have ever learned sittin on my ass in a classroom. I'm getting a crash course in business and EDUCATE myself where I need be, but mostly i'll educate myself through my networks of people i've developed.

I've actually found a lack of critical thinking ability with some of the college graduates I know more than those that lack college education. For example: I know a man who graduated from berkeley and MIT yet cannot grow as a businessman because he's in a constant loop where he never learns and wont admit his own mistakes. College really can't and doesn't teach you this. And its crucial to your success as an entrepreneur. Curse of the educated man which all that schooling developed in him the drive to derive his self esteem from being the "know it all" or the guy who "gets it right" always.

You want to see college critical thinking.
Why dont you look at the liberal fanaticism that spreads through the collegiate campuses. Thinking che guevarra and Noam Chomsky are the coolest thing since sliced bread. You are graded on if you are right or wrong in the professors/authorities eyes. Not on your ability to critically think but to fall in line with group think.
 

Jvesti

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Originally posted by Page
not true. the current education system is designed to produce employees, not business owners, etrepreneurs, and investors. That's why schools give students meaningless assignments and endless deadlines. it's to shape them into employees.

School taught me nothing about leadership, organization, and most importatly, creative innovation. I had to do that myself by learning from people in whose footsteps I wish to fillow. Granted,school did teach me ways to convey leadership-oriented ideas (such as writing and public speaking) but it left me to assemble the pieces on my own.

The ability to successfully start and manage a business is not something you can learn in school, and its not something just anyone can do w/o changing how they think. some people are naturally suited for it and enjoy taking risk to get ahead. These people are natural leaders and innovators, and the world belongs to them. Other people are standard products of the system and have been conditioned to look for safety and stability in the realm of finances, so when they sense risk, they run like hell. These people are natural-born employees and will spend their lives working for the natural-born leaders and innovators. These employee-types cannot ever be successful in owning business and investing unless they change the way they think.
Yup there is no shame in either road either.

There's astronomers, astronauts, and crews to make sure astronauts dont die, in houston. Both are independent on each other. Humanity has become specialized and creates people that tend to be certain ways that fit the current society.

IN FACT, meyers-briggs type ENTJ is just 2% of the population at a given time. This is the "leader type" personality. Its just we have a cluster-**** of ENTJ's on this forum. This is what keeps drawing me back here. But all the other types of people are essential for a society to work.

Interesting story was, one of my friends has some kind of minor in "business leadership" from college and took leadership classes all throughout college. Yet was looking toward me for guidance and leadership and couldn't seem to get a project done that i had to take the reigns of. He did well in college btw. But here I am, a guy who developed leadership skills by DOING and hard knox without that formal education (im supposed to need to be a leader) easily leading and making things happen without much effort.

Its just like women. You can't make studies of this forum day in a day out. Compensate for lack of balls and action. No matter how hard you study concepts.
 

sifer

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I second Page.

Page says...
not true. the current education system is designed to produce employees, not business owners, etrepreneurs, and investors. That's why schools give students meaningless assignments and endless deadlines. it's to shape them into employees.

School taught me nothing about leadership, organization, and most importatly, creative innovation. I had to do that myself by learning from people in whose footsteps I wish to fillow. Granted,school did teach me ways to convey leadership-oriented ideas (such as writing and public speaking) but it left me to assemble the pieces on my own.

The ability to successfully start and manage a business is not something you can learn in school, and its not something just anyone can do w/o changing how they think. some people are naturally suited for it and enjoy taking risk to get ahead. These people are natural leaders and innovators, and the world belongs to them. Other people are standard products of the system and have been conditioned to look for safety and stability in the realm of finances, so when they sense risk, they run like hell. These people are natural-born employees and will spend their lives working for the natural-born leaders and innovators. These employee-types cannot ever be successful in owning business and investing unless they change the way they think.
To Engetsu,

Engetsu says...
Going to school opens up your mind and critical thinking abilities.
I wish this was true, unfortunately, its' not. Perhaps you should refer to these books... unlike some of the posters, I do not believe school itself will nor can help. I believe in educating yourself. I believe that's the only way to learn. Just as I have learned to become Don Juan, I have also learned to teach myself and as another poster put, learned to learn but by myself.

Why Education Is Useless by Daniel Cottom
Clueless in Academe : How Schooling Obscures the Life of the Mind by Gerald Graff
What Does It Mean to Be Well Educated?: And More Essays on Standards, Grading, and Other Follies by Alfie Kohn
The Schools Our Children Deserve : Moving Beyond Traditional Classrooms and "Tougher Standards" by Alfie Kohn
Punished By Rewards by Alfie Kohn
How Children Learn by John Caldwell Holt
Instead of Education: Ways to Help People do Things Better by John Holt
The Unprocessed Child: Living Without School by Valerie Fitzenreiter

I have many many more book selections, I have read all of them.

Would you like more to read?

Many people who aren't wealthy or rich also do not like to learn, something to think about. These are the very same people who spend time playing video games or watching Sunday night football or other forms of entertainment. There's nothing wrong with entertainment but most have gone too far.

Whenever they have to think about money, they put their mind to sleep. Whenever they are told to read, they prefer reading newspapers instead of a new technique on how to find new ways to detect a good stock from bad, instead of learning, they have died.

And the day Sife stops learning, Sife dies.

Engetsu says...
Starting a business without any higher education is an amazing way to fail.
It's ashamed that school is now a synonym with education itself. Quite ashamed.

Engetsu says...
I'm deceived... I would have expected much more common sense out of a heavily-worshipped poster such as Pook.
You have not been deceived by anyone but yourself. Think of where you stand. Perhaps Pook's very advice will be the same advice that will get you out of your money problems in the future.

belividere says...
Last I checked you aren't forever. ***** comes, ***** goes yes at the same time you also reach your expiration date. Your money isn't going with you. Rather than spend all your time chasing money and materialistic outputs focus on things that make a difference.
Perhaps you misunderstood Pook. Immortality isn't gained through living forever in life itself but in memories and thoughts. When your name goes down on many things, that's essentially living forever. All men die but not many live.

Pook says...
When you BELIEVE you are that prince, that you are The Great Catch, all the 'desperation' signs you were emitting vanish and an aura of attraction will surround you. Combine this manner of thinking with all the Don Juan skills you know, and you will become irresistable.
Remember, you are the Prince, the catch! The GREAT catch! Do not chase women, they chase you! When he says invest in yourself, he does not mean extreme materialism and chasing just money for the rest of your life. He meant do what makes you feel good, what makes you feel who you are. If you love helping the charity, perhaps the money you make can be donated to the charity every month. That's one form of investing in yourself. When others are happy, so are you. Investing in yourself so that you become one, investing your time chasing women is a waste of time unless of course, there are other exceptions but that's not of this topic.

belividere says...
You made a couple of dollars working within the system? Great, how does that actually change anything? You are putting materialistic happiness as a priority, the SUV, the happy family, the care free life. .etc.
I think the question is, "what difference will I make as a worker as opposed to if I was a businessman?"
In fact, question for you belividere, where did Pook say anything about materialism in ways that you describe?

belividere says...
You are fooling yourself and no one else. You are all drones to the economic machine pretending to be independant. You're success depends on the market and interest rates.
We are all employees at one level or another, even Bill Gates. Just at which part of the hierarchy do you wish to be at?

Success do not depend on the market nor rates. Success starts within the mind.
The market, down or up, I've seen many people benefit in both and many who know how to survive in both.
 

sifer

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Just wanted to say...
Jvesti says...
Why dont you look at the liberal fanaticism that spreads through the collegiate campuses. Thinking che guevarra and Noam Chomsky are the coolest thing since sliced bread.
By politics and other issues I am by standard (and proudly) a Liberal. However I do not think Che Guevarra or Noam Chomsky are the coolest thing since sliced bread. They have their own place.

Wait, I noticed, fanaticism. :D
 

Interpol

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Originally posted by Oxide
I have a question. I go to a school that is about $5500 a year for tuition. It is a decent size school, and is acredited as well. However, how much will this affect the future employers when they look at my resume and find out i didnt go to a top notch school... i really dont want to be discriminated against based on what school i went to, however at the same time is that extra $10000 i would have to pay to get into a better school be worth it in the long run?
If you can get into one of the top 30 schools in the country, you should do it no matter what the cost. Otherwise, I'd say no, it's not worth it.
 

Interpol

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Originally posted by Page
not true. the current education system is designed to produce employees, not business owners, etrepreneurs, and investors. That's why schools give students meaningless assignments and endless deadlines. it's to shape them into employees.
Read my reply to Pook, this simply isn't true in all cases.
 

i1t4yomindi

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everyone's going around in circles

The purpose of school is to provide you with a gateway for a life-long career in something you are willing do for 30+ years of your life (95+% of the population).

The path of school is what "everyone" does. It's for the most part, the most secure and safe option you have. However, when you graduate, keep in mind that you'll still have ot work hard and make connections to get a good paying job.

On the other hand, there are risk-takers who want to be financially free and take the hard road. It's a mental game because only the tough-minded will survive. But at the end, the rewards can be much greater if you suceed. That is, you'll probably retire earlier than most working people and have all of the time in the world to travel or do whatever you want.

Most people go to school because it's what they think it's the best thing to do for the long-run since everyone goes through college. Still though, if you want to be better off then some people - get your college education but also learn how to invest so you wont have to rely solely on a pension/retirement package.

School does serve its purpose, but not to those who want to retire and not work until they are in their 50's-60's.

It's your life, choose what you think it's best.
 

Engetsu

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Thanks for prividing a list of books to read. I will look into them... Actually I'm reading the reviews on amazon as I type this.

On another note, I keep on seeing these individual isolated cases of people who received no education and who succeeded. I'm not saying it's impossible!!! I'm saying it's very rare!!! Just like it's very rare for someone to spend their days at home studying by themselves. There is an underlying factor in school which is our innate need to live in society and to be motivated by others... That's why school is a lot more efficient than home-schooling. Again, I am not saying the latter is impossible!!! I'm just saying that it's very very very very rare for someone to find the motivation to make it worthwhile. All in all, if you want to have as many chances as you can in becoming more open-minded and educated, school is your best bet, and by far.

Why do I say all of this? Well, I come from a region of the world and a culture that is not renowned for its higher education, and I see how we are in general. After seeing so many people who have no schooling act like retards, be racist and prejudiced, and have no open-mind contrast with the university-level crowd, ANYONE would be convinced that school makes you a better person. Yes, I am saying BETTER PERSON, because that's how it is. You learn how to interact in society, how to analyze, how to criticize, how to develop your general culture, how to be more autonomous and independent... that's the purpose of school! Yeah, sure, nothing's perfect, and I know that some people get out of school by giving in the minimum effort, but let's not forget all the successful educated people... Namely dentists, pharmacists, computer/engineering/marketing/sales managers, diplomats, law teachers, professors, dentists, optometrists, judges, chiropractors, financial managers, and I'm sure I'm forgetting many many more! Business is a risky endeavour, and as was said can be done at your own risks. That being said, the education system is definitely the best choice for someone who wants to ensure himself of a solid, financially stable future with a successful job.
 

Page

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Originally posted by Interpol
Read my reply to Pook, this simply isn't true in all cases.
Read Kiyosaki's Cashflow Quadrants and then get back to me on it.
 

RepphIz

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Re: everyone's going around in circles

Originally posted by i1t4yomindi
It's your life, choose what you think it's best.
no its not! its your parents life too! they created you

its also partly your teachers' too! look at all that they taught you

you should be ashamed
 

Page

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Originally posted by Interpol
Robert Kiyosaki has a bizarre, one-sided, and irrational contempt for institutes of higher learning.
what makes you think so?

I see his point... I've personally learned more on my own over the years than I've ever learned in school. Face it, the educational system the way it is now is broken, and it should be scrapped.
 

sifer

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Originally posted by Interpol
Robert Kiyosaki has a bizarre, one-sided, and irrational contempt for institutes of higher learning.
Much like I can say about the people in Ivory Tower.

"The people in Ivory Tower has a bizarre, one-sided, and irrational contempt for people who are not at their level/live their life in a different way."
 

diplomatic_lies

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I see the difference between business and being an employee as the difference between going for the HB10s and the HB5s.

You'll be more safe with the HB5s. Its easy to get them, and its easy to keep them.

The HB10s are harder to get, and harder to keep. But once you get a good one, you're set for life.
 

sifer

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Originally posted by diplomatic_lies
I see the difference between business and being an employee as the difference between going for the HB10s and the HB5s.

You'll be more safe with the HB5s. Its easy to get them, and its easy to keep them.

The HB10s are harder to get, and harder to keep. But once you get a good one, you're set for life.
Exactly, with HB10, you'll be more happier even if you did break up. That is an accomplishment.
 

Interpol

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Much like I can say about the people in Ivory Tower.

"The people in Ivory Tower has a bizarre, one-sided, and irrational contempt for people who are not at their level/live their life in a different way."
I won't argue with you here, that's true. But I don't consider myself one of those people and I hope you wouldn't either. All I've been trying to do is give college a fair analysis.

what makes you think so?

I see his point... I've personally learned more on my own over the years than I've ever learned in school. Face it, the educational system the way it is now is broken, and it should be scrapped.
If you don't think school has taught you much, then that's fine. I'm not you so I'm not qualified to tell you what you have or haven't learned. But I wouldn't assume that the same is true for everyone, or that all schools are the same.

I believe Kiyosaki's view towards college is at worse antagonistic and at best antiquated. If you read about the entrepreneurship programs that I talked about in this thread or the real-world based class I talked about it the other college thread ("Most Useful Uni Courses or something like that) then I think you would understand how many top schools nowadays are focused on more than creating robots. When you pay over $150,000 for your degree, you don't wanna be a low-level employee, you want the skills of someone who can be a manager or CEO!

Kiyosaki's analysis of a college education is pretty accurate for below-average, average, and maybe even slightly above-average colleges. It begins to fall apart when you're talking about top-tier colleges however.

Secondly, and more troubling for me, is the way he seems to regard people who went to college (and - god forbid - enjoyed the experience and are proud of their degrees) as fools, or somehow inferior to "people like him". At times he seems to suggest that people who went to college simply CAN'T be succesful, which is beyond ridiculous. I don't know if he has some deep unresolved psychological issues with his college-educated "Poor Dad" or what, but it sure seems like it.
 

Gus

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The purpose of school is...whatever you want it to be. Most people BLAME school for turning them into drones--God forbid they take responsiblity for their own outcome.

This new generation blames everyone else for their problems and expects everyone else to fix it ("We're fukked up and you're to blame", lyrics by Blink 182..."He says 'we're fukked up' but we're not the same, and mom and dad are the ones you can blame", lyrics by Green Day).

The person you become is solely dependant upon what you allow it (or want it) to become. If you allow the school to turn you into the God-forsaken employee, don't blame the school! Use school as a tool, as a means for achieving whatever it is you want to achieve. Don't get sucked into that rebellious not-my-fault blame-everyone-else mindset of today's culture. Take responsibility. If you aren't honest with yourself, how the hell are you going to be happy with yourself?

School taught me nothing about leadership, organization, and most importatly, creative innovation. I had to do that myself by learning from people in whose footsteps I wish to fillow. Granted,school did teach me ways to convey leadership-oriented ideas (such as writing and public speaking) but it left me to assemble the pieces on my own.
That's the beauty of it! Only those who really want to succeed, will. Most kids these days expect school and the government to hand-feed them everything, and that's why the government keeps pumping more and more money into the school system but gets worse and worse results. The more spoon-fed they get, the more lazy, unmotivated, and pointless their lives become. So then they stick their hand out for more government help, taxes go up, government gets bigger, people get dumber, the economy goes downhill, and next thing you know, you're living in a socialist country (I said the s word! Let the flame wars begin).
 

sifer

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Originally posted by derEikopf
The purpose of school is...whatever you want it to be. Most people BLAME school for turning them into drones--God forbid they take responsiblity for their own outcome.

While I won't discuss the blaming game... there is an issue below...

This new generation blames everyone else for their problems and expects everyone else to fix it ("We're fukked up and you're to blame", lyrics by Blink 182..."He says 'we're fukked up' but we're not the same, and mom and dad are the ones you can blame", lyrics by Green Day).

There is noone to blame and there is everyone to blame. Why do I say such contradiction?

You have heard of conditioning, yes? You have also heard of such saying, that you are the product of the environment, yes?

Remember, there is noone to blame because you have chosen the path to go to school. You only have yourself to blame yet you are not to be blamed nor should you because it's very bad for your self-esteem and toxic shame can build up.

You don't blame yourself because the environment has made you to believe that school is important which lead you to the conclusion that you must go.

Blaming anything? Hardly, just viewing things objectively. The only time you blame someone or something is when it is forced upon you.

The same with conditioning which I'll get to below.

The person you become is solely dependant upon what you allow it (or want it) to become. If you allow the school to turn you into the God-forsaken employee, don't blame the school! Use school as a tool, as a means for achieving whatever it is you want to achieve.

When you are in school, you are given orders, you are not allowed to think outside the box and if the teachers or professors aren't pleased with your performance, you're pretty much screwed. At the time when I attended high school, in math class, 50% of the class grade were behavior and class participation. That is, raising your hands for permissions, etcetc. You are conditioned much like the military, only military is more strict. This is why it is far better to avoid school if you do not want to condition yourself in a certain mindset.

In the military it is understandable, you are preparing to die in a war.

While it is logical to say, "well, I'll just learn some material here and there, I'll just go to college for the paper, etcetc" do remember, it isn't only just "being" there. It is known everyday our subconscious are hit by over 1,350+ advertisment. Then there's the fact that there are peer pressure, and of course others which have been discussed before, time or money.

Don't get sucked into that rebellious not-my-fault blame-everyone-else mindset of today's culture.

It isn't a rebellious attitude per se, it's the culture of our mass media that has lead us to believe things in a certain way. Weak and fat people are easier to control than strong and skinny/muscular people. The society has lead us to believe we must act a certain way to get a certain "thing". The gov't have more control this way. Remember, behind the mass media, the few powerful men dominate and control it.

They can make metrosexual a great thing or a poor thing. They can make bin Laden innocent or guilty.

Take responsibility. If you aren't honest with yourself, how the hell are you going to be happy with yourself?

This is what I speak of when I say passion. By then you have already done what you have already wanted to do. That in itself is honesty.

Noone is blaming anything either.

That's the beauty of it! Only those who really want to succeed, will. Most kids these days expect school and the government to hand-feed them everything, and that's why the government keeps pumping more and more money into the school system but gets worse and worse results. The more spoon-fed they get, the more lazy, unmotivated, and pointless their lives become. So then they stick their hand out for more government help, taxes go up, government gets bigger, people get dumber, the economy goes downhill, and next thing you know, you're living in a socialist country (I said the s word! Let the flame wars begin).

I will not discuss it due to the policy. Perhaps it is wiser to PM.
 
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