Problems with disrespect from wife

[lifeislearning]

Oh man OP, just when you sound like you're coming around and changing your life for the good, you make me take it back with this:

"its easy to see you aren't interested in me. You've made the choice again and again to break your promises to me." Meaning things like being home at a time she agreed to.

Ok. I know most of us can't possibly understand exactly what you're going through. Only you and your wife know exactly whats going on and only you know the best course to take. A lot of us are younger, unmarried, bitter, jaded, afraid of LTRs, or just plain unexperienced. We can only ADVISE from our OWN EXPERIENCES which may be very different from yours.

I've never been married, but I had a LTR psuedo-wife who had an emotional affair (and practically forced a breakup) and my situation sounded crazy similar to yours. Allow me to lay out some facts.

1. Your relationship has issues. Thats not too bad though, they always go through periods of ups and downs, and you're in a down now.
2. You seem to want not only to stay in this relationship, but to improve it.
3. You enjoy the changes you have been making in your life, and you have gotten positive attention from your wife for it.

These are all TRUE statements right? Almost everything else is an assumption, guess, deduction, IE: NOT FACT. We do not know if your wife has slept with this man, what her intentions are toward him, what she thinks of your marriage, or you, what he thinks about your wife, if she is preparing to leave you, etc, etc. We can make educated assumptions, but they are still assumptions.

Good thing is there are a few other observations I've made that are so close to facts we should just go ahead and assume they are.

4. Women love, love, LOVE, to feel like women. This means they want to feel sexy, erotic, free, young, worshipped goddesses who know no greater purpose to be loved and ravished by their amazing uncomprable Alpha he-god. I feel it is here you may be lacking a little. You must know how little the actual act of intercourse matters to a woman's perception of sexuality. This other guy makes her feel special, unique, beautiful, energetic, free, uninhibited, and the list goes on I'm sure. If YOU cannot make her feel this again, she will seek this or other fullfillment elsewhere. MAKE her interested in you. Awaken these feelings. Try something like this:

Hire a babysitter.
Get her in an outfit you like on her. SHOW her how sexy she looks in it. Firmly grab her hips and pull her into you as you stare hungrily into her eyes. Caress her body. Smell her hair, nibble an ear. Whisper in her ear. Remember the last time you wanted to tear the clothes off a 22 yr old hottie with huge perky t*ts and f*ck her till your d*ck fell off? Stare at her like she is that girl. Skip dinner and get ice cream. Don't let her buy "fatfree" or anything healthy, get her the flavor she would want to lick off Brad Pitt's shaft. Drive around town looking at Christmas lights, jack the heater up, and as she's about to finish the last bite, pull over, give her that look, tell her how unbelievably sexy she is and get to f*cking. Remember back when you were young and desperate and you felt so lucky to be with a naked woman you wanted to lick every crevace, trace every line, squeeze every curve? Do that. Don't ask if you can. Don't ask her to do anything. Just give in to the craziest uninhibited sex you can think of. Don't forget this is about her. Give her everything she fantasizes doing with the douchey music man.

Or something like that. Mix it up. Get crazy, allow her to awaken that side of herself with you. As you continue to improve yourself and rediscover her sensuality she will be getting more and more of what she fantasizes about him from you, making him useless. If she is fantasizing about you, she will forget about everything else. Every relationship I or any friends have seen end does so when the sex becomes monotonous. No woman leaves her man when he makes her feel like a sex-goddess.

Women love spontanious sexuality. This does not mean, "Hey wanna f*ck?" Try something new or something you haven't done in a long time. Push the envelope. Send her a random text at work describing some sexy thing you want to do to her. Get a mini chocolate fondue pot and paint it on her body. Make her crazy for you again.

It all starts with making her feel sexual. Not like a wife. Not like a mother. Like a sex goddess. Telling her she isn't interested in you doesn't do that.

Thats a good start anyway.

 

[Colossus]

Yeah, I don't really agree with that either. When my current girlfriend was wanting a relationship with me, she had a few orbiters. I told her I had no interest in having a girlfriend who hung out with male friends on the side. She got rid of them.

That was worded differently but it was an ultimatum essentially. The thing is, I meant what I said. I was coming from a place of conviction (this is not what I want in my life), not a place of weakness.

In my experience ultimatums (within an LTR) are a last act of desperation. I think in some circumstances they CAN work, but only if you are 110% ready to follow through with that plan and you have the high ground to begin with. Typically when ultimatums are issued in the setting of an LTR the guy is coming from a place of powerlessness, because his frame had been irrevocably lost in one way or another.

It all depends on the frame you are coming from in the first place. In the case of our OP he had tried other means unsuccessfully, and ground was lost. I hope it works out for him.

 

[Rubirosa]

Oh man OP, just when you sound like you're coming around and changing your life for the good, you make me take it back with this:



Ok. I know most of us can't possibly understand exactly what you're going through. Only you and your wife know exactly whats going on and only you know the best course to take. A lot of us are younger, unmarried, bitter, jaded, afraid of LTRs, or just plain unexperienced. We can only ADVISE from our OWN EXPERIENCES which may be very different from yours.

I've never been married, but I had a LTR psuedo-wife who had an emotional affair (and practically forced a breakup) and my situation sounded crazy similar to yours. Allow me to lay out some facts.

1. Your relationship has issues. Thats not too bad though, they always go through periods of ups and downs, and you're in a down now.
2. You seem to want not only to stay in this relationship, but to improve it.
3. You enjoy the changes you have been making in your life, and you have gotten positive attention from your wife for it.

These are all TRUE statements right? Almost everything else is an assumption, guess, deduction, IE: NOT FACT. We do not know if your wife has slept with this man, what her intentions are toward him, what she thinks of your marriage, or you, what he thinks about your wife, if she is preparing to leave you, etc, etc. We can make educated assumptions, but they are still assumptions.

Good thing is there are a few other observations I've made that are so close to facts we should just go ahead and assume they are.

4. Women love, love, LOVE, to feel like women. This means they want to feel sexy, erotic, free, young, worshipped goddesses who know no greater purpose to be loved and ravished by their amazing uncomprable Alpha he-god. I feel it is here you may be lacking a little. You must know how little the actual act of intercourse matters to a woman's perception of sexuality. This other guy makes her feel special, unique, beautiful, energetic, free, uninhibited, and the list goes on I'm sure. If YOU cannot make her feel this again, she will seek this or other fullfillment elsewhere. MAKE her interested in you. Awaken these feelings. Try something like this:

Hire a babysitter.
Get her in an outfit you like on her. SHOW her how sexy she looks in it. Firmly grab her hips and pull her into you as you stare hungrily into her eyes. Caress her body. Smell her hair, nibble an ear. Whisper in her ear. Remember the last time you wanted to tear the clothes off a 22 yr old hottie with huge perky t*ts and f*ck her till your d*ck fell off? Stare at her like she is that girl. Skip dinner and get ice cream. Don't let her buy "fatfree" or anything healthy, get her the flavor she would want to lick off Brad Pitt's shaft. Drive around town looking at Christmas lights, jack the heater up, and as she's about to finish the last bite, pull over, give her that look, tell her how unbelievably sexy she is and get to f*cking. Remember back when you were young and desperate and you felt so lucky to be with a naked woman you wanted to lick every crevace, trace every line, squeeze every curve? Do that. Don't ask if you can. Don't ask her to do anything. Just give in to the craziest uninhibited sex you can think of. Don't forget this is about her. Give her everything she fantasizes doing with the douchey music man.

Or something like that. Mix it up. Get crazy, allow her to awaken that side of herself with you. As you continue to improve yourself and rediscover her sensuality she will be getting more and more of what she fantasizes about him from you, making him useless. If she is fantasizing about you, she will forget about everything else. Every relationship I or any friends have seen end does so when the sex becomes monotonous. No woman leaves her man when he makes her feel like a sex-goddess.

Women love spontanious sexuality. This does not mean, "Hey wanna f*ck?" Try something new or something you haven't done in a long time. Push the envelope. Send her a random text at work describing some sexy thing you want to do to her. Get a mini chocolate fondue pot and paint it on her body. Make her crazy for you again.

It all starts with making her feel sexual. Not like a wife. Not like a mother. Like a sex goddess. Telling her she isn't interested in you doesn't do that.

Thats a good start anyway.

I'm gonna disagree w/ this bro,......

This behavior is rewarding her while at the same time making the OP look more desperate and clingy.
WTF should he go out and buy her a hot outfit ? How is he establishing himself by an act of giving to someone who's made him feel like crap.
The only way to rekindle of woman's passion for you is to detach yourself from her and let her see other woman desiring you.
The remedies you suggest should be for a special chick that DESERVES it. The wife treats him crap, and if he pumps her up sexually, the only thing that will probably happen is that her ego will think :"Wow ! I must be really hot after all !" "I wonder who else thinks so ?"
I'll make an analogy : If a chick stops answering your calls, you gonna change her mind by sending her notes telling her how hot she is ? No, you drop all contact and make her think you found someone better . I know you're thinking that if the guy acts more Neanderthal and focuses on sexuality in the relationship it will help, but I don't see it happening.

 

[Rubirosa]

My bad you wrote "get her in hot outfit" , not "buy"

 

[lifeislearning]

I see where you're coming from Rubirosa, and I agree with your analogy, but I don't think it really fits this situation. This isn't just some rando chick, but the OP's wife, and the two should not always be treated the same.

The focus on sexuality is not to rebuild the relationship, but to return the wife's interest back to the OP by adjusting her feelings. We all know women base most of their actions on their feelings, and right now most of her feelings of attraction, fun, and desire are turned toward this other man, while the OP generates in her feelings of obligation, monotony, and oppression. If the OP immediately stops creating the latter feelings in his wife and shifts her moods to the pleasant feelings, she will have less of a need to seek them elsewhere and hopefully will "feel" that there is something great left in the relationship. In doing this the OP IS showing his wife that HE TOO is a catch, and with all the other changes he is making, she will take note.

This is of course but a step in a long process to rebuild their relationship, but like all relationships, attraction is a must. At this point, if the OP shows too much interest in other women that might be the final signal she needs to walk. He needs to show her he IS desired by other women, but not necessarily exercise that power, as the OP seems quite interested in rebuilding the relationship.

 

[backbreaker]

I am in little rock now, will be here through new years as i'm going to the sugar bowl and my son has never spent Christmas with his family. Anyway, I've been going back to church the last few months.. just one of those things, I've come back around.

Anyway, today I went back to my old church, the one i grew up in. Pretty big church. The pastor of the church, a few months ago, got caught sleeping with a popular newswoman and stepped down (Was forced to step down and he went and started his own church lol. The entire freaking sermon today, was on this. Was a good sermon actually.


But I say that to say this. The pastor, ho was a visitor who grew up in that church but went to pastor somewhere else, made a good, DJish point, and that was that when you say I DO, what you are saying is that I Do put my wife or husband, above any other human relationship there is, rather it be your mom, your friends, your business partners, your hobbies, whatever. That's what I DO meanS. Your wife or your husband, as far as human relationships go, are of more importance than any other relationship you can have. It's just that simple


OP, you dont' have that now. And truth be told your wife, just isn't being a good wife. Even if she isn't cheating, that's beside the point, she's not being wifely. It's really just that simple. I think you deserve a wife that will be by your side, that actually puts you above other relationships, that's what her promise is to you and that is what your promise is to here, for eternity. If a woman or man is not doing that, then the marriage is living in false pretenses.

 

[jophil28]

...but went to pastor somewhere else, made a good, DJish point, and that was that when you say I DO, what you are saying is that I Do put my wife or husband, above any other human relationship there is, rather it be your mom, your friends, your business partners, your hobbies, whatever. That's what I DO meanS. Your wife or your husband, as far as human relationships go, are of more importance than any other relationship you can have. It's just that simple

Bingo,

" ..foresaking all others" is usually interpreted as not sleeping with a third party but, as BB points out, the requirement to "forsake all others" is much broader than that.

I believe it is vital to qualify a woman BEFORE you marry her in regard to her loyalty to you above all others and her willingness to make you her priority.
IF you enter a marriage with a woman who has merely added you into her existing collection of girl friends, relatives and male orbiters, you will be treated as the latest addition -and the most dispensable if trouble looms.
Test your woman's loyalty endlessly and mercilessly BEFORE you ask her to tie the knot.
IF she EVER places another person ahead of you or your wishes, demote her to FB status.
If she ever sides with a sister or a girl friend AGAINST you in a dispute DUMP her on the spot.

I have a strong belief that if men filtered women like that ,most weddings, and subsequent miserable marriages would never take place.

I learned the hard way.

 

[backbreaker]

On a side note, church gets this wrap as being anti DJ or anti i like sex with women, nothing could be futher from the truth. You can learn some pretty DJ stuff if you go to church and actually pay attention. God had a prototypical DJ in mind when he did his thing.

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

Hey BB, I thought I was the only one who believed in divine DJing.

My discovery of Christianity has led me to the conclusion that God designed hot and beautiful women for my enjoyment. The Bible speaks of men as though they should be made of steel; it is a great inspiration.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear All,
"I learned the hard way."Yeah me too....but seriously can you really tell?People change over the years....my last Wife changed then reverted back to type....but if I had been just a bit more observant had involved myself more in the Relationship,I could have nipped things in the bud....Hind sight is 20/20 Vision Right?

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

On Ultimatums:

Ultimatums are declarations of powerlessness in the sense that the only person's actions you control are your own. When you say "do this or else" you are making an overt attempt to control the behavior of another individual. The message is . "I am so out of control here you must do this or else."

Ultimatums are declarations of powerlessness because you are resorting to a direct threat to get someone to do what you want them to, and in doing so you OVERTLY confess your weak position. If you were in a genuine position of control it wouldn't be necessary to resort to an ultimatum; you'd simply use that control. There are ways to effect a change in another person, but ultimatums will never prompt a genuine change. If they change behavior it's prompted by the threat, not unprompted desire. Behavior that's changed by threat is obligation, not desire and not a genuine shift in attitude.

I should also add that ultimatums are, ultimately, self-defeating. You can keep your dog from running off by chaining him in the yard, but that dog still wants to run off. You cannot effect a genuine change of desire with an ultimatum as your relationship will be founded on that threat. It may give you some temporary satisfaction to see a shift in behavior because of an ultimatum, but at the root level, the person complying with it only does so for fear of a loss greater than their desire to act independently. This is the real power issue; that you'd want a person to conform to your desire so badly that you'd use a threat to effect it inspite of the foreknowledge that it can never be a genuine conformation because they didn't orginate it and did so only under duress.

That may or may not turn to further resentment, but rest assured that the quality of your relationship is now hinged upon your continued ability to make good on your threat. As soon as you can't, or the value you represent becomes compromised, the old desire to act independently returns and you're back to where you began - only now you're worse off for having entertained a relationship based on an ultimatum for so long.

So from your standpoint, yes you do have the power to affect your own actions (like walking away), but you are powerless to force her to do what you want (prompt a genuine desire in her), thus you resort to an ultimatum and only illustrate this OVERTLY.

 

[vatoloco]

...that God designed hot and beautiful women for my enjoyment.

Amen brother! Amen.

 

[guru1000]

However, walking away demonstrates a covert ultimatum. You are essentially stating "I will not tolerate this type of behavior." And yes, this may prompt a genuine desire to change her behavior, as walking away demonstrates higher value - she knows your value, and so do you.

The very word 'ultimatum' attaches a negative connotation from the onset. Whenever we use the words "control" and "demands," we automatically assume these words preclude genuine strength of character.

We forget sometimes, that our entire judicial and case law system, bases its strength in ultimatums- if you break the law, you go to jail. Yet, we tolerate the law and don't break the rules. Statistically, the law proves to be an effective means in controlling the masses. Although, I may have had thoughts at a younger age to act outside the confines of the law, I have a genuine desire today to act within its boundaries : Not because I HAVE to, but because I WANT to. Repetition breeds acceptance.

I don't advocate men to routinely express ultimatums to their partner. Use them sparingly. When a woman demonstrates disrespect, and she will - walk away.

 

[heroshima]

I want you all to know I'm stil here and still in the game.

I want to write and respond to all the comments and questions and tell more about what has been going on but don't have the time or energy to do so at this point.

I've reversed my ultimatum and she knows I am doing so because I know it is futile and would only breed more resentment.

She's taking a month off of music with the guitarist. She agreed this was a good idea.

I'm doing some things well and making mistakes elsewhere but continue to remind myself that the mistakes are teaching me something and to not be afraid to try again so I can get it right.

My work continues...

Things that I'm doing for myself:
I am continuing to work on being stable and strong in myself and my beliefs.

I am, more and more, not afraid of my own emotions or hers.

I am in better and better shape physically and have hit a weight loss goal that I had set for myself some time ago.

I am walking taller and puffing out my chest.

I am looking more men in the eye and talking a lot more freely with women.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Was the month off music your idea to which she agreed or her own idea?

Also, what kind of music? Where are her gigs usually played? You mentioned she just got into singing a little under 2 years ago, what prompted that?

The reason I ask is because at 40 y.o. I highly doubt she can expect to become the next Carrie Underwood, so this has to be just an amusement for her at best, not a new career choice.

 

[Andy_Dufresne]

On a sick day I just spent an hour engrossing myself in this one.

It was time well spent...holee sh^t heroshima, it was as if I was reliving 1999 with my ex and my two sons (who were 8 and 5 at the time), and all of my exes little "friends" back then and her time out in classes while I stayed home and played Mr. Mom and she was working on her degree.

For the record, my scenario ended in divorce. But that's a good thing I'm wayyyyy better for it now.

Long story short, what I know now that I could have done back then to turn it around and get the ex eating out of the palm of my hand:

1. Step 1: Shock and awe. Show up with a new Harley, or maybe one of those new 6.7 liter Challengers if you are not into the bikes. With her money preferably, or the "savings" account. Hell, I would break into the 401K to do it if I had to. She is gonna try for the land grab for half of that anyway, might as well spend it.

2. My work buddy at lunch last week: "where are you going..? "....OUT" Who are you going out with "...FRIENDS" "when will you be back?...."LATER." "what about a sitter?" ".....UHHH....THAT WOULD BE....YOU."

3. After about a month of 1 and 2, she'll be a friggin' animal for you. Then I turn her down for sex for, say, at least another month

4. If you end up caving and banging her, throw on your pants, head out of the bedroom and repeat Step 2.

5. I mean this in all sincereity....talk to her as little as possible. Only if it pertains to the kids...kids first always.

6. Go on YouTube and watch Bill Belicheck videos. Thats how you have to communicate with your wife. God knows I hate the Pats but BB is an emotional master. No emotion. No comments. No extra words. No details about wins or losses, successes or failures. Deadpan.

Remeber actions speak louder than words.

Forget rep points: Rollo, you deserve a medal and a 2 year contract for a FOX TV show for your responses.

 

[jophil28]

The reason I ask is because at 40 y.o. I highly doubt she can expect to become the next Carrie Underwood, so this has to be just an amusement for her at best, not a new career choice.

You are injecting rational thought into an observation of a woman's activites and her motivations for participating in it.
Is that productive?
IF women were reasonably in touch with their own age appropriate activities we would not be confronted with the overdressed, blinged-up, middle-aged muffin tops at the mall every Saturday .

Fantasy shapes expectations in womanland.

 

[heroshima]

Was the month off music your idea to which she agreed or her own idea?

Also, what kind of music? Where are her gigs usually played? You mentioned she just got into singing a little under 2 years ago, what prompted that?

The reason I ask is because at 40 y.o. I highly doubt she can expect to become the next Carrie Underwood, so this has to be just an amusement for her at best, not a new career choice.

The time off was expected because guitar man will be out of town for two weeks. She has said this would be a break. I asked for it to be longer and she agreed.

She's playing pop/rock. No, she's not expecting this to be a career. She's said she wants to go back to school when our youngest is in 1st grade (he'll be in kindergarten in fall of 2011) so that she can re-enter the workforce. Don't everybody tell me about how she's going to get her degree and then divorce me. I've heard it and am will be on the lookout for that. Who knows if we'll even make it that far.

She got into music by taking some classes at a local music school. Then she got interested in playing more because she wasn't getting much time to sing in the class (15 minutes with the band once a week). Check my past posts for more info on this. The other dimension to this is that I was in a band when we got together. She may be seeking that rock and roll excitement that she felt for me as well.

Yes, this seems to have been for her amusement and the relationship with guitar man seems to have been for her amusement as well. She has sort of treated him like a new puppy. She gets to say she's a singer in a band and gets to hang around him. He's definitely brought an element of excitement to her life and I can see that. He's a single rock and roller.

I think I caught this in time before she cheated on me sexually but it definitely speaks to the bigger problem of her loosing respect for me and our relationship. Also, her getting bored with me and expecting that I would support her as she went out and found some excitement.

As for him, he's got some damage. This is part of why I don't think they've had sex. He seems a little afraid of having a girlfriend (recently out of a relationship) but has clung on to my wife as his friend. He was new in town and didn't know many people and she became his close friend. He has been very adamant that he does not want kids and does not want a girlfriend with kids. He's also been adamant that he doesn't get involved with band mates as he was burned by this before. Obviously that says that he is capable of crossing that line.

I personally think they have fantasized about being together as part of an unattainable fantasy. For her its because she was secure in our relationship and he could be her plaything (puppy). For him, I honestly believe that he wants his life to be simple and doesn't want to be daddy to any kids of any woman (his own or otherwise). But I believe that he became very attached to my wife as, again, sort of a safe way to have a love relationship without the risk of it becoming a real relationship.

 

[Franky Four Fingers]

I think what this ultimatum thing boils down to is context.

I guess what I was trying to say is if she's doing something wrong (eg - cheating etc) and you give the "or else", I (nor she) will believe it's an attempt at control and of weakness. She knows she's doing something wrong and you won't tolerate that wrong behavior. An unintentional (no 'chest beating' but to plainly stop bad behavior) position of strength.

If she is doing something normal (eg - girls night out w/no cheating etc) and you don't agree with it and you give an ultimatum THEN that is a position of weakness. That's how I see it anyway.

I personally will never give an 'or else' unless she is clearly doing something wrong/bad behavior/cheating etc. I will however definitely do them when necessary but they are few and far between depending on the woman's behavior of course.

 

[heroshima]

Backing off of the ultimatum was my choice to give her room to make the decision for herself. My stance now is that I am not attempting to control her. When necessary I have simply been stating my position and acting as though she can come along for the ride with me if she wants.

Oh, and I found something that is helping me sleep - Valerian Root. You can find it at most health food stores that sell vitamins and supplemets. I would highly recommend it to anybody that is having anxiety or trouble sleeping.

I'm feeling like I'm coming from much more of a place of abundance. I still feel down occasionally but it seems to last much less time and I know that those feelings will pass. The Don Juan bible has really helped with topics to help get my head straight.