Problems with disrespect from wife

[backbreaker]

I told my fiancee about your situation. she thinks you are screwed btw.


I will say you have this going for you. you are not afraid to face reality. that's more than I can say for alot of people. As much as it hurts, you are dealing with the issue like man, head on and whatever comes of it. You are going to be okay in due time with that foundation.

 

[hithard]

Being a good dad to his kids is priority. Not to earn brownie points with her, but because they are your kids. I agree with the 'dad vs bad boy' is a fail for the dad. I also understand letting him know being 'super dad' won't change her mind. In fact take any positive feedback from her with a grain of salt. She will say whatever you want to hear at this stage. But remember it's her actions that count and talk is cheap. Don't expect any miraculous changes in her to happen overnight.
IMO taking these steps will get you more tuned to the idea of living without her. So long as you work on yourself and start flirting/ or being open to other women as well, then it is a good combo to set you back on track. Turning your mental attention and energies elsewhere is what is needed.

My prediction is she'll cheat (or has already) with this guy, but since you're already negotiating from a point of weakness, she's already begun foreshadowing the excuses and rationales she's planning to use when that confrontation comes in hopes that you'll be Mr. Understanding when the fantasy is complete.

Rollo hit it on the head. This is like the women’s script for these situations. Just be aware that you may have to deal with it down the track.

Try your hand at dance classes or something that forces female interaction on yourself (even if it's just for the laugh). This is vital when it comes to working on you. Don't tell your wife ever detail of everything you do either. Keep interactions positive but short for a little while.

jophil28
In my opinion you need to stop going to her gigs entirely.
IF you continue to go "sometimes" you are sending her the message that you are still willing to support her musical career "sometimes" -the same career that is causing you so much angst.
I realize that the 'moderation' mindset is popular with modern behavioral science folk, but it is an hallucination when behavior reaches the problematic stage..
BY attending even another one of her gigs you are tacitly endorsing her continuing involvement.
I believe that it is vital that we men demonstrate steelly consistency in our actions when we are battling a powerful foe ...and her bloated ego needs are your foe right now.

Remember that she really liked things the way they were up until you complained, and she will not give up her performing career without a struggle.
She is having the time of her life,with you playing roles of soccer Dad and domestic servant while she is living out her ego fantasy on stage. She does not want to let that go just because you want her to.

You have made your feelings known sufficiently - time to act accordingly.

Absolute Gold

 

[Buddha_Mind]

What I don't understand from this entire thread is how you're supposed to have a good relationship through time without being Understanding sometimes. I haven't had any long-term friendship with anyone without taking their faults into account and sometimes too being there when they go around and **** up. Are we really supposed to be 1-strike-out animals willing to turn our backs at any moment? Is that what makes a good father or a good friend? I know women are different but isn't there any correlation? ****, maybe I'm having AFC relapse or going nuts from all of this information...bleh

 

[hithard]

What I don't understand from this entire thread is how you're supposed to have a good relationship through time without being Understanding sometimes. I haven't had any long-term friendship with anyone without taking their faults into account and sometimes too being there when they go around and **** up. Are we really supposed to be 1-strike-out animals willing to turn our backs at any moment? Is that what makes a good father or a good friend? I know women are different but isn't there any correlation? ****, maybe I'm having AFC relapse or going nuts from all of this information...bleh

Be in a position of strength, and then you can choose what you want to do. People make mistakes. And tackling them when you have your own $hit sorted is a lot easier. Make whatever decision you like if your frame is strong and you can handle the consequences.

The OP missed the signs 2 years ago; let his life go on comfort autopilot and pretty much has to start from scratch. Guys do this all the time. They get in a relationship, switch off and let their frame collapse. Then when it all hits the fan they scramble like hell with textbook beta breakup. A little bit of self maintenance is all that is needed.
So be the guy that can consider his options from an abundance mindset. Not the man that has to settle because he thinks 'this may be the best I can do'

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

This was the the kiss of death:

Ok, there have been some developments. I threw down the gauntlet this morning and said "you're relationship with him has to end". She called me back later and basically said "you'll get what you want and I'll go back to being a little domestic diva and everything will be peachy again but I'm not giving up music". I said "Excellent, and I never asked you to give up music."

I was going to say sh!t test failed, but it's only ever a sh!t test if she still has enough interest in you to care about determining whether you're worth sticking around for. This one statement tells me she's already made that decision.

"you'll get what you want,.."

Translation: "Iwont get what I want - which is ƒucking the Alpha guitar player. It's your fault for denying me my fantasy.

and I'll go back to being a little domestic diva and everything will be peachy again

Translation: I'll go back to playing the role of wife and mommy I've been playing since we married (too early) at 23 and I missed out on all the hot sex and partying my single girlfriends were enjoying then. Don't worry everything will be fine, except that now I will resent you for denying me one wild fling in my entire life before I hit the Wall.

",..but I'm not giving up music"

Translation: Just kidding. I still plan to ƒuck Eddie Van Halen, but I need a fail-safe for when I do, so now it'll be your fault for "not being supportive enough" or your "over-possessive controlling" that will have driven me to it when it all goes down.

"Excellent, and I never asked you to give up music."

Translation: Thanks, I needed an alibi



Always remember, 5 minutes of Alpha trumps 5 years of beta. The most significant, memorable, impressionable, sexual experiences women will ever have in her life will come from the briefest moments they get with an Alpha male they were uncontrollably hot for - not the marriage vow, not the comfortable familiarity of sex with her loving, loyal, devoted husband. My guess is that you're the only guy she's had sex with since she was 23 (40 minus 17 years of marriage). Once she crosses the Alpha sex rubicon, there's no coming back for her.

 

[Kailex]

#1 - You
#2 - Kids
#3 - Her

Remember that.
I know the first instinct is to put your kids before yourself, but in reality, if you are not well of health and sound of mind, those kids won't have someone to look up to. So YOU come first. Then THEM. Then... her.

But "HER" is replaceable.

YOU aren't.
Your kids aren't.

I hate to agree with most here, but you ARE negotiating your marriage.

Now, I won't harp into the divorce aspects or how to rekindle your relationship... but I will harp into the fact that you are now coming from a position of knowledge, although not power.

She obviously holds the strings to the relationship even if it seems like you might have them.

BUT you have the knowledge of HOW to deal with this... and this forum can lend a great hand. See, my problem is that you consider a minor victory over HER... the fact that you went out with the kids and went somewhere else. I know that you went out with them to have a good time with them, but it seems that you also did it in order to spite her. And please, don't say you didn't... or else you wouldn't have posted "minor victory".

I know they say that love is a battlefield, but you need to understand that in order to survive whatever comes next... you need to subtract her mentally from the equation. You seem to be coming from a position where you NEED her, where without her... YOUR life equation is incomplete, even though she seems perfectly happy with subtracting you.

Where do you go from here?

Be you. Do you. You and your kids are top priorities.
Hit the gym. Go out with them to new and exciting places. Stop going to those gigs. Whether she screws him or anyone else... hey, it'll happen whether you talk to her or not.

But you need to put your mental sanity above all... and right now, the top 2 priorities I listed at the beginning of the post, are all you need in order to conserve that peace of mind and sanity.

If divorce did happen, would you lose some money? Perhaps.
But at least you will have been ready. At least you were already working on you. At least you spent quality time with your kids.

We can't deny that your situation is grim, but you have the knowledge to deal with it, unlike many unsuspecting men who get handed the divorce papers and then BEGIN to wonder, where it all went wrong.

I think it's time for you to stop TALKING about this with her. It's time to start acting for Priority #1 and Priority #2.

And I second Jophil's notion... keep us updated.

 

[zekko]

Ok, there have been some developments. I threw down the gauntlet this morning and said "you're relationship with him has to end". She called me back later and basically said "you'll get what you want and I'll go back to being a little domestic diva and everything will be peachy again but I'm not giving up music". I said "Excellent, and I never asked you to give up music."

I'm curious about what here has changed? You said she'd still gigging with the guitar player. Did she just agree to tone down all the "outside of work hours" interactions, the phone calls, emails, and such?

By the way, let me just say that I'm impressed that your relationship has lasted 17 years. That is a very long time. The longest I've ever lasted with one woman was ten. Things can get stale after a certain amount of time. I'm sure it's very hard to go through 17 years with one guy (or girl) without getting some sort of crush on SOMEBODY.

I should mention one other little thing that stuck out at me. When I was in college, there were a lot of married women who could not wait to graduate and enter the work force so they could leave their husbands. And I mean a LOT. They were very open about it. That seemed to be their whole driving motivation for being there. Have the husband help finance their education and then once they could stand on their own feet they would be gone. I'm not saying that's what's going on with you, but I'm just saying it's very commen.

 

[heroshima]

I'm curious about what here has changed? You said she'd still gigging with the guitar player. Did she just agree to tone down all the "outside of work hours" interactions, the phone calls, emails, and such?

No, she actually agreed to stop playing with him. They have a gig this weekend that I am not attending and that's it.

What she was saying is that she wants to continue singing and I support that. She's been singing for about a year and a half or two. Its just been since she met this guitarist about 5 months ago that things started to become problematic.

 

[vatoloco]

When I was in college, there were a lot of married women who could not wait to graduate and enter the work force so they could leave their husbands. And I mean a LOT. They were very open about it. That seemed to be their whole driving motivation for being there. Have the husband help finance their education and then once they could stand on their own feet they would be gone. I'm not saying that's what's going on with you, but I'm just saying it's very commen.

They do that!?

You don't say!

 

[heroshima]

By the way, let me just say that I'm impressed that your relationship has lasted 17 years. That is a very long time. The longest I've ever lasted with one woman was ten. Things can get stale after a certain amount of time. I'm sure it's very hard to go through 17 years with one guy (or girl) without getting some sort of crush on SOMEBODY.

Thanks. I've actually felt very good about it for the most part. We've definitely had our times of better and worse but most of it has been better. She has shown a lot of respect for me and has followed my lead many times. I feel like she got to lead (and obviously, I let her) when we had little kids and now that they are older (and don't need as much care) she still thinks she can lead.

I realize that there may be a crush here or there but this one has been significant for her. She has had male friends before which at times has been a small issue for me but this is the most interest she's shown in another male in our relationship.

I should mention one other little thing that stuck out at me. When I was in college, there were a lot of married women who could not wait to graduate and enter the work force so they could leave their husbands. And I mean a LOT. They were very open about it. That seemed to be their whole driving motivation for being there. Have the husband help finance their education and then once they could stand on their own feet they would be gone. I'm not saying that's what's going on with you, but I'm just saying it's very commen.

Yeah, this is a big warning flag for me because she's been talking about going to grad school to get back into a career. Now saying that, she is a very strong and self sufficient person that feels the need to contribute (perhaps this is just her wanting to not feel completely reliant on another).

Its not as though she is a fat slob that sits around and waits for me to hand everything to her. On the whole, she has been a very positive part of my life and I have genuinely learned from her strength.

That strength seems to have kicked my ass. At least I'm standing back up now.

 

[heroshima]

See, my problem is that you consider a minor victory over HER...

What I considered to be a minor victory is the alpha coming out in me and making a decision to do something for me. Plus, that I could tell that she was wondering what was going on in my mind. Not the other way around, which is the way its been for months.

 

[jophil28]

On the whole, she has been a very positive part of my life and I have genuinely learned from her strength.

That strength seems to have kicked my ass. At least I'm standing back up now.

Unfortuntately her "strength" transformed itself into a force that effortlessly propelled her into placing herself first and achieving her own ego needs ahead of her committment to you as her husband.
She knew that she was "the strong one" for all those years of marriage. That is why she was willing to risk the health and future of her marriage to you. She knew(at some level)that if it all fell apart she would survive.
IF you left she would still have the children, alimony and guitar hero on the side.
You would be screwed and she was on her way to "self realization" with the courts help.
And the winner is ...!

 

[heroshima]

Unfortuntately her "strength" transformed itself into a force that effortlessly propelled her into placing herself first and achieving her own ego needs ahead of her committment to you as her husband.
She knew that she was "the strong one" for all those years of marriage. That is why she was willing to risk the health and future of her marriage to you. She knew(at some level)that if it all fell apart she would survive.
IF you left she would still have the children, alimony and guitar hero on the side.
You would be screwed and she was on her way to "self realization" with the courts help.
And the winner is ...!

Wow. Excellent observation.

Thanks for the analysis.

 

[heroshima]

So is the consensus here that heroshima should NOT have put such a strict limitation on his wife? Obviously, his wife would not hesitate to do the same to him, but such an ultimatum is backwards-rationalization fodder for women and fuel to the fire. "Yeah, I was thinking about cheating, but this proves that he deserves it".

Yeah, I'm getting that picture. So how do I gracefully change that decision?

 

[heroshima]

Had a great conversation with a cute mom in a McDonald's play area tonight when I took my kids there. She was giving me tons of openings like "yeah, I don't really have any friends outside of work. I wish I knew more people to hang out with".

This flirting thing is starting to be fun.

Oh, and I did apologize, without regret to my wife and said "I apologize, I've been insecure and giving you an ultimatum wasn't fair. I trust you and I know you'll do what's right".

Going out with one of my single buddies tomorrow.

 

[Warrior74]

Had a great conversation with a cute mom in a McDonald's play area tonight when I took my kids there. She was giving me tons of openings like "yeah, I don't really have any friends outside of work. I wish I knew more people to hang out with".

This flirting thing is starting to be fun.

Nice.

Oh, and I did apologize, without regret to my wife and said "I apologize, I've been insecure and giving you an ultimatum wasn't fair. I trust you and I know you'll do what's right".

Yah I don't necessarily agree with that. But if it works it works. I prefer actions not words. I guess you had to for damage control but I still don't like it. YMMV.

Going out with one of my single buddies tomorrow.

Good for you.

 

[hithard]

Yah I don't necessarily agree with that. But if it works it works. I prefer actions not words. I guess you had to for damage control but I still don't like it. YMMV.

Under different circumstances I would agree. But now he is beginning to know the score, it's a great short term disarm technique. (Just to clarify my line of thinking)

It will:

• Create some breathing space for him from the barrage of negative emotions/ energies these situations create.
  
• Stops the combative mindset of always being ready to attack and takes away some of the stress.
  
• Creates space so he has more time to deal with his finances.
  
• Gives him more time to transition to a stronger lifestyle position where he can choose what he wants to do.
  
• Soften her mood towards him where he is no longer the enemy.
  
• Put her in the questioning mindset, (e.g. why is he going there, why is he doing that). Not that this should be an aim.
  
• Forces him to deal with the jealousy issue. Can't be a bi.tch and go back on his word now
  
• In theory allows him to continue his own path without her laying on the demands. Of course we know what women are like with double standards.

What it won't do is win any respect from her or change her attraction without the subsequent action from him to back it up. It may also make her think she has the green light to be all over guitar hero. But imo that scenario has played out already, and not something I'd waste any more mental energy speculating about. I also know it stinks of supplication, but this peace treaty is for his benefit - to arm himself to the hilt.

Just like the OP missed the signs two years back. So too will she miss the signs of him getting back on track while she is caught up in her fantasy.
The pendulum will swing back in his favor (Watch out for the preemptive attack to bring you back to beta position, through her doing what you want, crazy sex and other things to get you to bend before you hit DJ).
OP then has to decide what he really wants. If it is stay then she needs to be retrained. That’s a while down the track yet.

Going out with one of my single buddies tomorrow.

Just a heads up. Nights out with the boys can lead to the 'what am I doing here, I just want to be home with my family' thoughts.

Don't sweat it, it's normal. Don't let it throw you off track. Just enjoy a night out with the boys.

 

[Falcon25]

I liked Rolo's response. I will go one step further and say she has already fuvked him. Many times. She will find another guitarist. This time, you won't know. You did something that no man should do, you verbalized your feelings. When she wanted her "hobby" you should have put your foot down. No hobbies that take time away from her children. Second, when she started getting the hots for this guy, all of a sudden, you have a blonde that is calling you or texting. Nothing, nothing, flames a relationship like a woman scorned and jealous. She has you. I suggest; 1) hide money 2) make sure she sees or hears about women in your hobbies 3) stop giving a fuvk and talking, don't touch her. You fuvking *****. Look at what she is doing to you. Slap this ***** around a bit. A woman should FEAR you, as well as LOVE you. She doesn't fear or respect you. Why do you think divorce rate is so low in other parts of the world? Is it because they let their wives have singing careers and male lead's at 40? Unbelievable some of these guys.

You apologized? For what? Being a man? A husband? A dad? WTF?

You gave an ultimatum? Us men don't give ultimatums. Girls do that. We speak with our actions.

I can go on and on. I'm so tired of seeing this happen to men. I just wish that men understood that love alone means nothing to a woman. It's fear of losing you, fear of getting her ass beat, putting her in place BEFORE these things happen. Training her like a dog. Does that sound too vulgar? Does it offend your ears? What happens when you reward bad behavior in a dog? Sure, she's not a dog, but she's a woman. SHE WILL FUVK OTHER MEN IF YOU DON"T STEP UP. SHE HAS TO GO TO BED NEXT TO YOU EVERY NIGHT, KNOWING THAT YOU COULD BE GONE OR SOME VERY BAD **** WILL HAPPEN IF SHE CROSSES THAT LINE OF DISRESPECT.

So, if you don't like tasting another man's *** in your wife's vagina. I suggest you start acting a little crazy, a little off, a little weird the next few weeks. COMPLETE CHANGE OF CHARACTER.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Hiroshima,
"Change a Girls mind against her will,she's of the same opinion still"......Don't believe in ultimatums,don't try it again the general reaction is to say OK then,Up yours....She didn't....Hmmmm....Another thing I don't believe in is apologising to Women.....Explain,rationalise but NEVER apologise.

 

[Kailex]

I know we generally say don't apologize... because well, there's no reason to.

But divorced men, you tell me... doesn't the fact that he apologized "buy him time"?

I've never been married, so I honestly don't know how it would work there. Is it of any benefit to a man near his wit's end to retract his former statement of "You can't do this anymore..." and later follow up with "I apologize for my insecurity..." if you know that the candle of marriage is burning up the last of the wick?