Preparing for a LTR Burial

[LiveYourDream]

The violations will be innocuous and you won't know whether to follow the letter or spirit of the law.

I am not exactly sure what you mean. Would you help me understand, please?

 

[Desdinova]

Anyway, in the relationships where I have set boundaries I have found that its really a process of getting where you want to go, and deprogramming normal(but historically, abnormal) social conventions from BOTH of you.

That's exactly what I did. I told her that it's not just her that can't have friends of the opposite sex, it's me also. The way I see it, the arrangement should be mutually beneficial. If both parties are high value, then there are going to be others interested in dating them. It protects BOTH people involved in the relationship against jealousy, bad feelings, and cheating.

The dumb bytch couldn't wrap her head around it. All she wanted was to have her cake and eat it too.

 

[LiveYourDream]

Basically theyll violate the boundary but itll be a rare occasion, if its a male orbiter related one itll be with a guy you know for a fact she isnt involved with, it wont really be intentional, or whatnot. It will also involve male friends/probably exes from the past rather than new men. As opposed to "I slept over this guy's house but nothing happened." Its a real grey area, even though the whole point of boundaries is to eliminate grey areas.

Are you really going to divorce the wife and mother of your child because she didn't block a guy friend that asked her out 30 years ago? What if she's pregnant and hormonal and disrespects you at a party one time? I think not.

If intentional(much less of a grey area), the intent is also drastically different. Violations will have more to do with reasonable insecurity over being dumped due to actual respect for their partner, rather than BPDish paranoia and psychosis and/or desire to get attention. Your "gut" will tell you that nothing too serious is going on, even while objectively you have to know that anything is possible. Im mainly referring to intentional acts of omission or misdirection.

Anyway, in the relationships where I have set boundaries I have found that its really a process of getting where you want to go, and deprogramming normal(but historically, abnormal) social conventions from BOTH of you.

Also, if you find one of those rare women that you honestly believe would never ever cheat(fallacious thinking but still), it might be in your benefit to not set boundaries. They will quickly be turned against you lol.

Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me. I don't know what to say right now. It's hard to really take it in. I truly believed deceit was the exception and not the norm. I truly believed that most people intend good for other people. I believed that integrity and a person's word matter to them. I thought the honorable were not the exception. I did not even conceive a person could truly experience life, without any sense of conscience. As I saw behind the curtain on that experience, I believed that as shocking and heart wrenching as it was to see the lies, I believed such deception was still the exception.

I read here how many are happy to have the opportunity to deceive in whatever way serves their capacity to get access to a quick pump and dump. I relegate that to a different place inside me. I prefer something different. To each their own. I am not looking to judge. I have no idea how to navigate the deception now.

I read your post and take in the level of expected deception that is expected from women. I take in how as men you no longer anticipate the potential of being in relationships built on honesty, integrity and respect, let alone love and it just hurts in my heart. I am woman. I am emotional. I can't imagine a relationship without all of those foundations. Yet, I read here how men don't find them and believe the odds are like winning the lotto or finding the elusive unicorn.

As a woman, knowing that I sooner than later, once I have healed and addressed my parts in my last experience, I know I would like to partner again. I have a lot of love to share. I am on the other side wanting to be open to put myself out there, yet not be misled. I want real. I want depth. I want sharing and caring. I want fun. I want really good sex too. I want deep authenticity and presence. I want to share my loving. How do I navigate finding a meaningful match without getting deceived and being used by someone lying simply to serve their own agenda, whether it be sex or the illusion of a loving relationship. I recognize some men are here doing the same thing in their own way.

I feel this massive sadness, heartache and resistance to really take in that men and women treat each other with such disregard, disrespect and callousness. It is such a waste.

I am upset so I am rambling from an emotional place and not particularly coherent. I am doing my best to get regain my balance. I just feel how hard I want to push back on the idea that the majority of men and women are always seeking for themselves and so easily deceitful when they believe it serves them. I am not arguing in anyway. I feel in shock. I feel like I've been living in Disneyland, I just got off a scary ride and now am learning Disneyland is a lie and the real world lies outside the gates and that pretty much it's a fvcked a place that often resembles the scary ride just in smaller daily doses. I want it not to be so.

On another level, I realize the fvcked up version is just another dream within a dream. I can wake up from that too.

I realize that I have been fortunate to have friends, those I have worked with, and the communities in which I have lived and worked to be 99.9% of the time, in my experience, to have been with upstanding people. I know I was and am fortunate. I never conceived how uncommon that was. I am still not sure what to do with the concept of self serving deceit being pervasive among men and women. I am still taking it all in. Yikes!

In the meanwhile, if you are willing to help me understand something else, I am really curious when you say, "deprogramming normal(but historically, abnormal) social conventions from BOTH of you, if you could say more about that and give examples. If you are not up for it, I accept that too. I am learning and looking to understand. You piqued my curiosity to know more. Thank you.

 

[LiveYourDream]

P.S. I don't know what proper online community posting etiquette is. I have no clue. If it is rude to share my emotional ramble or segway into asking questions to help my own understanding, in a thread started by someone else, on a separate topic, I am sorry. I realize I have done this in a few threads at least now. I do not want to offend any OP or the community here. If the preference or etiquette is that I should PM my questions or start a new thread, would someone kindly let me know, please. I don't want to piss off or irritate anyone here, especially those of you that are helping me to learn and see eyes wide open. Thank you.

My apologies to Desdinova here and anyone else I may have offended in other threads.

Yes, this is indeed a perfect example of an emotional woman's mind processing.

 

[LiveYourDream]

1. Woman mocking and disrespecting the man to his face and in front of others(obviously its not ok for the man to do this either)
2. Opposite sex friends, going as far as daily texting, "platonic" dates, "cuddle buddy," "gay best friend"
3. Blurred lines as to what constitutes cheating
4. Drinking and partying to put yourself in a position to cheat
5. Concurrent dating
6. Keeping exes around
7. Flirting with others
8. Having backups

This is really helpful. Thank you.

 

[Desdinova]

I truly believed deceit was the exception and not the norm. I truly believed that most people intend good for other people. I believed that integrity and a person's word matter to them. I thought the honorable were not the exception. I did not even conceive a person could truly experience life, without any sense of conscience. As I saw behind the curtain on that experience, I believed that as shocking and heart wrenching as it was to see the lies, I believed such deception was still the exception.

This is the way I see it... Women live in the moment while men plan their future. Here's what I mean...

A woman will enjoy the things and people (or person) currently in her life that brings her pleasure and emotional fluctuation. If the pleasure and emotional fluctuation stop even temporarily, she will no longer enjoy it and go looking for something else. This is why couples break up when the man is going through some sort of difficult time in his life. In his state, he isn't concerned with making time with her pleasurable or interesting, but is instead concerned about his own situation. He focuses on that and works at figuring out how to fix it. In the meantime, her time with him becomes boring, uneventful, and even annoying. She then feels as if she's fallen "out of love" with him and moves onto someone else. Women don't truly realize that when a man goes through a period of difficulty, that period is only temporary. That's because women genuinely live in the moment. Once the man is finished going through his period of difficulty, he returns to being the same person he was before. Women don't truly understand this and believe that the man has "changed".

Men generally plan ahead. If they have a woman in their lives, they will figure out how she fits into his plan, where they're going to live, what they can do with their children, where they will travel, etc etc. Men are much better at planning for the long haul than women. The woman may have good intentions in that moment of time, but if she falls "out of love" with him, all those good intentions go down the toilet. The man who has made the mental plans and has full intention on sticking to them becomes devastated that his plans have been destroyed.

The way for a man to avoid experiencing the destruction of his future plans is to avoid planning things with the woman in mind. He has to build his own future and invite the woman along for the ride. If she falls off the side of the boat, at least he still has his boat. If she becomes part of the boat and decides to quit working, then the boat sinks and he becomes devastated that he lost his love, his boat, and is now stranded in strange waters with only a life jacket.

 

[LiveYourDream]

This is the way I see it... Women live in the moment while men plan their future. Here's what I mean...

A woman will enjoy the things and people (or person) currently in her life that brings her pleasure and emotional fluctuation. If the pleasure and emotional fluctuation stop even temporarily, she will no longer enjoy it and go looking for something else. This is why couples break up when the man is going through some sort of difficult time in his life. In his state, he isn't concerned with making time with her pleasurable or interesting, but is instead concerned about his own situation. He focuses on that and works at figuring out how to fix it. In the meantime, her time with him becomes boring, uneventful, and even annoying. She then feels as if she's fallen "out of love" with him and moves onto someone else. Women don't truly realize that when a man goes through a period of difficulty, that period is only temporary. That's because women genuinely live in the moment. Once the man is finished going through his period of difficulty, he returns to being the same person he was before. Women don't truly understand this and believe that the man has "changed".

Men generally plan ahead. If they have a woman in their lives, they will figure out how she fits into his plan, where they're going to live, what they can do with their children, where they will travel, etc etc. Men are much better at planning for the long haul than women. The woman may have good intentions in that moment of time, but if she falls "out of love" with him, all those good intentions go down the toilet. The man who has made the mental plans and has full intention on sticking to them becomes devastated that his plans have been destroyed.

The way for a man to avoid experiencing the destruction of his future plans is to avoid planning things with the woman in mind. He has to build his own future and invite the woman along for the ride. If she falls off the side of the boat, at least he still has his boat. If she becomes part of the boat and decides to quit working, then the boat sinks and he becomes devastated that he lost his love, his boat, and is now stranded in strange waters with only a life jacket.

I would not want to be a man in that world.
I would not want to be a woman either.
I vote for new options!

 

[kenpiffyjr]

It's the theory of women believe men "got it down pat". I believe women can plan. For themselves and their children. But asking a woman if she makes plans with a man involved is like asking a child if they make plans for their parent(s).

 

[grayclif]

The way for a man to avoid experiencing the destruction of his future plans is to avoid planning things with the woman in mind. He has to build his own future and invite the woman along for the ride. If she falls off the side of the boat, at least he still has his boat. If she becomes part of the boat and decides to quit working, then the boat sinks and he becomes devastated that he lost his love, his boat, and is now stranded in strange waters with only a life jacket.

You just hit the nail on the head. Good stuff. Men do your thing.

 

[zekko]

The way for a man to avoid experiencing the destruction of his future plans is to avoid planning things with the woman in mind. He has to build his own future and invite the woman along for the ride. If she falls off the side of the boat, at least he still has his boat. If she becomes part of the boat and decides to quit working, then the boat sinks and he becomes devastated that he lost his love, his boat, and is now stranded in strange waters with only a life jacket.

This is true, and this is the essence of a lot of the best of what is taught around here.
And the thing is, this is in the best interest of the woman also, because this way she has a solid, seaworthy boat that she can ride in, that isn't going to founder.

 

[LiveYourDream]

I understand if you take a pass on this. I have more questions and am looking for greater understanding. Anything you are willing to offer would be appreciated.

A woman will enjoy the things and people (or person) currently in her life that brings her pleasure and emotional fluctuation. If the pleasure and emotional fluctuation stop even temporarily, she will no longer enjoy it and go looking for something else.

Please bear with me here. I am not judging. I am not saying it's not true. I am just trying to figure out where this fits in my own experience. I am trying to understand. Please be patient with me.

I've read this concept in other posts as well, the idea to create emotional fluctuation to maintain a woman's attraction or interest.

I don't get what a man intentionally does to do this. Without having any idea, what I can say is the concept sounds exhausting. The idea that somehow as a man, you have to pre-consider a woman's emotional state and what you can intentionally do to alter it. You do this on an ongoing basis? Wow!?!?! Is it something you do once a day, a few times a week, only when you are in her company or is it something you are always aware of?

It's a full time experience being responsible for my own thoughts, emotions and attitude. I can't fathom trying to also consciously manage someone else's experience. I love giving gifts or doing special things or creating special experiences for my man. I do that from love and giving and enjoying his joy. For me that is fun and joyful. Is that what you are talking about. I get the sense it's not, because it always sounds effortful or like work mostly. The posts make it sound like ups and down emotions of all kinds are the goal. I couldn't imagine trying to manage another's emotions for a day, let alone a week, a month, a year or a decade. It would be exhausting and a total P.I.T.A., to me. Maybe it's because I have no idea what it is you are really up to and what it is like for you. Help, please..?

It brings up other thoughts as well. =) When then, do you as a man then get to just "let go" and "be," without having to "be on" (managing the woman's emotional experience) in the relationship? I am in awe. On some level I am hoping I have misunderstood you, because it sounds like way too much effort, or should I say misdirected effort, to me. I am not a man. I have no idea what your take on it is?

For me, where is the space for each to be self responsible for your own emotions, thoughts, and internal experience and come together (in relationship, not pump&dump) and enjoy one another without all the posturing? Does that never happen for men? Are you forever gaming the women even in LTR? What I am missing, and maybe it's a given?

I as a woman am there for -- ok maybe I am getting it! I am there for how I feel in his presence--Ah Ha! (surprised myself) Maybe that is what you are talking about? I enjoy sharing vulnerability, connection and loving. When a man inspires my respect, admiration, and appreciation...love flows massively inside me. As I overflow with love for him, I feel the love inside myself and it reconnects me with the love that is my nature. When both of us experience that, with one another, and in our lives, it's amazing.

(I know I am getting into that love stuff, bear with me.) For me the beauty and gift is when we inspire one another in our loving. For me this is a place of giving and authenticity. Loving isn't about getting.
Loving is authenticity and unconditionality. It's loving the whole package. (That is another topic, I know.)

I guess what I find hard to conceive of, is how a relationship of managing a woman's emotions works for you? The idea still baffles me.

In my best version, two people come together in authenticity. Safety and connection allow greater and greater depths of expression and connection. Repeat, go deeper and into new territory. I am not into surface connection. I want to know someone's heart and soul. Love is loving it all, for me.

Ok, let me wrap this up with another question, observation. I was shocked at the idea that you feel if you do not maintain emotional fluctuations for a woman, that she will become bored and leave. Is a woman with you because she loves the authentic heart and soul of you? (I realize that question although heartfelt from me will take a bashing on this website.) How about ever? Have you shown that depth of yourself to her? Is that even in your consideration?

Or on the other hand, are you more or less interacting around feelings or experiences shared, events attended together, etc, that are more outward and not really about the depth of one another's authenticity?

A woman will enjoy the things and people (or person) currently in her life that brings her pleasure and emotional fluctuation. If the pleasure and emotional fluctuation stop even temporarily, she will no longer enjoy it and go looking for something else. This is why couples break up when the man is going through some sort of difficult time in his life. In his state, he isn't concerned with making time with her pleasurable or interesting, but is instead concerned about his own situation. He focuses on that and works at figuring out how to fix it. In the meantime, her time with him becomes boring, uneventful, and even annoying. She then feels as if she's fallen "out of love" with him and moves onto someone else.

It baffles me that your expectation/experience is that it is standard practice for women to abandon men they love, when he is in the depths of a growth process. Maybe that is common. It sure is awful. Is that really about male/female in your opinion or is that more individuals who lack caring attributes or was the relationship not truly deeply based in love and supporting one another's well-being? I am just trying to understand the male experience/perspective I hope you do not mind. I am just looking to understand, if you could/would help??? Please...

 

[kenpiffyjr]

Speaking from my personal experience. The blue bill, which many of us are injected with from birth until we learn to let it go, messed everything up. Yes, I feel like with women, a man can not be his authentic self all the time if he's coming from blue pill upbringing. The blue pill still resides. The thirst for love and to believe in "the one" is still there. He would need years of reconditioning imo LiveyourDreams to be the man that is naturally one that you speak of that's ALWAYS attractive to you.

My question to you is, have you ever been in love with a guy who in your gut was his authentic self?...and if you say yes, was he vulnerable in anyway that makes you think he at any time showed blue pill traits.

 

[Desdinova]

I've read this concept in other posts as well, the idea to create emotional fluctuation to maintain a woman's attraction or interest.

I don't get what a man intentionally does to do this.

That's because the men that women are highly attracted to don't intentionally do it. They treat women like 5hit but have those moments of being "sweet". The woman in turn justifies her attraction toward this total d1ckwad by saying she can see the good person deep down inside of him and that he's "misunderstood".

The idea that somehow as a man, you have to pre-consider a woman's emotional state and what you can intentionally do to alter it. You do this on an ongoing basis? Wow!?!?! Is it something you do once a day, a few times a week, only when you are in her company or is it something you are always aware of?

Doing this has become somewhat automatic for me, so I don't really think about it anymore. I'll ignore her texts for a couple of hours to get her wondering what I'm up to, make her laugh when she's upset, suggest something sexual and then leave her with nothing but a wet puzzy, slap her on the ass once in a while unexpectedly, start nibbling on her neck in the middle of the grocery store, etc etc. It's all about making a stagnant environment more interesting. However, what I've noticed about myself is if I'm not actually genuinely interested in the woman, I either won't have the desire to do it or I'll just treat her like 5hit by default.

It's a full time experience being responsible for my own thoughts, emotions and attitude.

This is something that men don't genuinely understand. A woman's mind is always working, jumping around, and experiencing multiple tracks of things at once. I saw this earlier today on my Facebook, and it really gives a good idea of how a woman's mind works:

I can't fathom trying to also consciously manage someone else's experience.

While women's minds are running on multiple tracks, men's minds generally run on one track. We're not experiencing all that stuff at once. We're usually in one frame of mind at a time. Take that list above, pick only one subject, and we'll be focused on only that.

I love giving gifts or doing special things or creating special experiences for my man. I do that from love and giving and enjoying his joy. For me that is fun and joyful. Is that what you are talking about.

That's not emotional fluctuation, although if you do it when the man is in a bad mood, then you have a good example. If he's had a lousy day at work and you go put on something sexy and climb on his lap, then you're taking him through an emotional transition. However, most women follow their man's lead and their emotions will drop to the same level as his. When he has a lousy day, his woman's day becomes lousy.

I couldn't imagine trying to manage another's emotions for a day, let alone a week, a month, a year or a decade.

It's not managing them, it's leading her into a different mood or injecting something that causes her emotions to jump around. If a guy you were attracted to told you "I could love you some day", you're going to start your multitrack thinking about that statement, and it's going to haunt you. Coming up with a simple statement like that is easy for me, and it does so much for a woman.

When then, do you as a man then get to just "let go" and "be," without having to "be on" (managing the woman's emotional experience) in the relationship?

If a man wants to keep the relationship alive, the answer is never. If he incorporates the things that cause emotional fluctuation into his existing personality, then he can easily "let go" and just "be himself."

When a man inspires my respect, admiration, and appreciation...love flows massively inside me.

...unless he does it all the time. I did that with the woman who drove me to this site and she dumped my ass. She got tired of being treated like a princess. I firmly believe that a woman is 100% happy when she's not 100% happy.

For me the beauty and gift is when we inspire one another in our loving. For me this is a place of giving and authenticity. Loving isn't about getting.
Loving is authenticity and unconditionality. It's loving the whole package.

I believe women can feel a stronger love than men, but men can feel a consistent love better than women. You're never going to feel love for him 100% of the time. That feeling is going to bounce up and down like all your other feelings do. Here's a graph of how a woman feels love:

Here's how a man feels love:

I was shocked at the idea that you feel if you do not maintain emotional fluctuations for a woman, that she will become bored and leave. Is a woman with you because she loves the authentic heart and soul of you?

She will feel see that when she's experienced emotional fluctuation with the man. If there is no emotional fluctuation, she sees him as a "nice guy who can get any woman", but it's any woman except her because she doesn't genuinely have that overall feeling of attraction for him. She can only get that feeling of attraction if her mind is racing and her emotions are jumping. That's the best way I can summarize it.

It baffles me that your expectation/experience is that it is standard practice for women to abandon men they love, when he is in the depths of a growth process.

It's not about a growth process, it's when he's in turmoil about something. He's suddenly in deep debt, a close friend or relative dies, going through a divorce, lost his job and is having trouble getting new employment, etc etc. Growth is improvement. There is nothing boring about a man who's improving himself.

 

[Desdinova]

Update on the breakup: She unblocked me on Facebook.

 

[LiveYourDream]

Update on the breakup: She unblocked me on Facebook.

What is your intent?

 

[Desdinova]

What is your intent?

Do nothing. I have no desire to pursue anything further with her.

 

[LiveYourDream]

That's because the men that women are highly attracted to don't intentionally do it. They treat women like 5hit but have those moments of being "sweet". The woman in turn justifies her attraction toward this total d1ckwad by saying she can see the good person deep down inside of him and that he's "misunderstood".
I was that woman AND I also believed I rode their highs and lows and tolerated more drama than I would have preferred because of deep love and a desire to be supportive when they were living through challenging times.

Doing this has become somewhat automatic for me, so I don't really think about it anymore. I'll ignore her texts for a couple of hours to get her wondering what I'm up to, make her laugh when she's upset, suggest something sexual and then leave her with nothing but a wet puzzy, slap her on the ass once in a while unexpectedly, start nibbling on her neck in the middle of the grocery store, etc etc. It's all about making a stagnant environment more interesting. However, what I've noticed about myself is if I'm not actually genuinely interested in the woman, I either won't have the desire to do it or I'll just treat her like 5hit by default.
I appreciate the reality check here. It is not my preference. I appreciate you telling me how it is.

This is something that men don't genuinely understand. A woman's mind is always working, jumping around, and experiencing multiple tracks of things at once. I saw this earlier today on my Facebook, and it really gives a good idea of how a woman's mind works:

I am a woman, I don't even know what to make of that. LOL

While women's minds are running on multiple tracks, men's minds generally run on one track. We're not experiencing all that stuff at once. We're usually in one frame of mind at a time. Take that list above, pick only one subject, and we'll be focused on only that.
I am not sure if it's that we are running on multiple tracks. A great way I have heard it explained is that women have diffuse awareness and men have focused awareness. A woman walks into a room and she perceives all that is happening in that room, from large to small, to people, to the order or disorder of things, and more. While men have a single pointed focus as it's been explained to me. I man watches TV and is not necessarily also aware of all the other things happening in the room at the same time, with the same intensity a woman might. This is explains why women have to consciously stop themselves from talking to a man while he is busy with something and check in first for his attention. I understand other wise it is perceived as an interruption to a man, where for a woman it's all already happening at once, or so I have been told.

That's not emotional fluctuation, although if you do it when the man is in a bad mood, then you have a good example. If he's had a lousy day at work and you go put on something sexy and climb on his lap, then you're taking him through an emotional transition. However, most women follow their man's lead and their emotions will drop to the same level as his. When he has a lousy day, his woman's day becomes lousy.
I personally believe relationships are healthier when each party takes responsibility for how they feel and insuring they are not blaming others for their feelings. I think it would be awful to have a horrible day and then come home and be blamed because by default your woman now feels awful too. That's not a relationship ride I would want to be on.

It's not managing them, it's leading her into a different mood or injecting something that causes her emotions to jump around. If a guy you were attracted to told you "I could love you some day", you're going to start your multitrack thinking about that statement, and it's going to haunt you. Coming up with a simple statement like that is easy for me, and it does so much for a woman.
I get it. I've experienced more deceit and manipulation than I knew possible. I see the hook. I understand how it works. I find the idea of being toyed with so unattractive. I value authenticity which I correlate with strength. It's hugely attractive to me. I feel like the games come from insecurity and weakness. It's 95% a turn off to me.

If a man wants to keep the relationship alive, the answer is never. If he incorporates the things that cause emotional fluctuation into his existing personality, then he can easily "let go" and just "be himself."
Interesting.
I love when both people have no hesitation and can just let go and completely be themselves. I get many people "like" certain facades better. There is a gloriousness in sharing life, uninhibited, with another as well, or so I believe.

...unless he does it all the time. I did that with the woman who drove me to this site and she dumped my ass. She got tired of being treated like a princess. I firmly believe that a woman is 100% happy when she's not 100% happy.

I appreciate that was your experience. I am not questioning that it was. I cannot speak to the princess experience because it has not ben mine. I personally cannot conceive of deeply loving a man and being turned off because he was consistent in his loving of me. I do not even know what to say about that. I get that some people like the emotional spikes and intensities and maybe that's how they feel alive and passionate. I cannot even really wrap my head around your 100% theory. It's so odd to me.

I believe women can feel a stronger love than men, but men can feel a consistent love better than women. You're never going to feel love for him 100% of the time. That feeling is going to bounce up and down like all your other feelings do. Here's a graph of how a woman feels love:
With this I strongly disagree, for myself. Other women I have no idea. For myself, once I love someone, it's the full package deal, there is no off switch, end of story. What your graph reprints to me is "liking" my man. There are days when I like him more than others, or his actions more than others. The loving is ALWAYS present, for me.

Here's how a man feels love:

She will feel see that when she's experienced emotional fluctuation with the man. If there is no emotional fluctuation, she sees him as a "nice guy who can get any woman", but it's any woman except her because she doesn't genuinely have that overall feeling of attraction for him. She can only get that feeling of attraction if her mind is racing and her emotions are jumping. That's the best way I can summarize it.
I hear that. I find it sad then that it appears men rarely if ever feel truly seen and loved just for who they are, as they are.

It's not about a growth process, it's when he's in turmoil about something. He's suddenly in deep debt, a close friend or relative dies, going through a divorce, lost his job and is having trouble getting new employment, etc etc. Growth is improvement. There is nothing boring about a man who's improving himself.
It seems in your explanations that you feel women expect men to be their entertainment in some way and when the entertainment is no longer doing it for them, women simply change the channel. Maybe that is the norm these days. I wouldn't know. I do know that is not how my relationships have been. I also know that I do not subscribe to staying together for the sake of staying together, because you've been together for so long already. At that same time, I think when you love someone, there is an inherent desire to be supportive through their growth times.
I know you made a distinction about growth vs. turmoil. I personally see that turmoil causes growth in one way or another. That's my nature. The idea of leaving in the middle of your partner's hard time because it's boring is a new level of cold and heartless to me.

I really appreciate you sharing!!!

THANK YOU SO MUCH for taking the time to answer all these questions!!! Your answers mostly surprised me and some still really challenge me. That's ok! I appreciate your honesty and the opportunity to understand your perspective. Now that I have read it, I have no idea how I am going to reconcile my understanding of what you shared, with my own experiences and my desires moving forward. Time will tell.

I shared some of my immediate thoughts above, in blue, should anyone be curious.

Thank you again!!!

 

[LiveYourDream]

if you say yes, was he vulnerable in anyway that makes you think he at any time showed blue pill traits.

I am not well versed in blue pill/red pill. I know there terms are used here all the time, but I don't have them well defined in myself yet. If you could clarify some examples of blue pill traits, perhaps I could use those to answer your question.

 

[LiveYourDream]

That's because the men that women are highly attracted to don't intentionally do it. They treat women like 5hit but have those moments of being "sweet". The woman in turn justifies her attraction toward this total d1ckwad by saying she can see the good person deep down inside of him and that he's "misunderstood".



Doing this has become somewhat automatic for me, so I don't really think about it anymore. I'll ignore her texts for a couple of hours to get her wondering what I'm up to, make her laugh when she's upset, suggest something sexual and then leave her with nothing but a wet puzzy, slap her on the ass once in a while unexpectedly, start nibbling on her neck in the middle of the grocery store, etc etc. It's all about making a stagnant environment more interesting. However, what I've noticed about myself is if I'm not actually genuinely interested in the woman, I either won't have the desire to do it or I'll just treat her like 5hit by default.



This is something that men don't genuinely understand. A woman's mind is always working, jumping around, and experiencing multiple tracks of things at once. I saw this earlier today on my Facebook, and it really gives a good idea of how a woman's mind works:

While women's minds are running on multiple tracks, men's minds generally run on one track. We're not experiencing all that stuff at once. We're usually in one frame of mind at a time. Take that list above, pick only one subject, and we'll be focused on only that.



That's not emotional fluctuation, although if you do it when the man is in a bad mood, then you have a good example. If he's had a lousy day at work and you go put on something sexy and climb on his lap, then you're taking him through an emotional transition. However, most women follow their man's lead and their emotions will drop to the same level as his. When he has a lousy day, his woman's day becomes lousy.



It's not managing them, it's leading her into a different mood or injecting something that causes her emotions to jump around. If a guy you were attracted to told you "I could love you some day", you're going to start your multitrack thinking about that statement, and it's going to haunt you. Coming up with a simple statement like that is easy for me, and it does so much for a woman.



If a man wants to keep the relationship alive, the answer is never. If he incorporates the things that cause emotional fluctuation into his existing personality, then he can easily "let go" and just "be himself."



...unless he does it all the time. I did that with the woman who drove me to this site and she dumped my ass. She got tired of being treated like a princess. I firmly believe that a woman is 100% happy when she's not 100% happy.



I believe women can feel a stronger love than men, but men can feel a consistent love better than women. You're never going to feel love for him 100% of the time. That feeling is going to bounce up and down like all your other feelings do. Here's a graph of how a woman feels love:

Here's how a man feels love:

She will feel see that when she's experienced emotional fluctuation with the man. If there is no emotional fluctuation, she sees him as a "nice guy who can get any woman", but it's any woman except her because she doesn't genuinely have that overall feeling of attraction for him. She can only get that feeling of attraction if her mind is racing and her emotions are jumping. That's the best way I can summarize it.



It's not about a growth process, it's when he's in turmoil about something. He's suddenly in deep debt, a close friend or relative dies, going through a divorce, lost his job and is having trouble getting new employment, etc etc. Growth is improvement. There is nothing boring about a man who's improving himself.

I find myself looking to understand the answers you gave further. Would you say they are mostly just yours personally, more representative of most men in general, or are the perspectives you shared characteristic of most men on this site, or particular factions of, or is there a blue pill/red pill/purple pill (whatever that is) guideline they would fall into?

I am not trying to put you personally into a box. I am just wondering how specific the answers are to your own personal experience and/or also represent a greater group of men, and how big of a percentage of men is that? I do not want to make assumptions and mislead myself. Hopefully that makes sense or sense enough.

 

[Desdinova]

I find myself looking to understand the answers you gave further. Would you say they are mostly just yours personally, more representative of most men in general, or are the perspectives you shared characteristic of most men on this site, or particular factions of, or is there a blue pill/red pill/purple pill (whatever that is) guideline they would fall into?

I cannot speak for the other guys here. I came to my conclusions and theories based initially on all the stuff I read here when I showed up back in 2001, and then took not only my experiences but also my observations of male-female interactions and thought deeply about them. Over time, I started recognizing patterns. The same things keep happening over and over, regardless of who the couple is. I can tell which party is more interested, when a woman's leading a guy on, when she's just in it for the attention, when he's spoiling the hell out of her, when they're on the verge of breaking up, etc etc. It's at a point where it's extremely surreal. It's almost like I'm a damn fortune teller.

The one relationship I observed that was a major roadblock for a lot of my beliefs was that of my cousin and his wife. They were married a long time, had two kids together, and they seemed very functional and successful. They were the one couple who embodied the kind of relationship I wanted. 6 years ago, she ended the marriage and left my cousin devastated. That one divorce completely shattered my belief that ideal, loving relationships can and will succeed. They were married for 24 years.